#46 President Joe Biden

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 

I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 

you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

The government takes care of stupid all the time. Do you stand outside bankruptcy courts and chastise everyone going in and out?

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 

I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 

Many people have to take out loans and work several jobs just to go to community college.  Many also had zero financial education.  I think you are viewing student loans as something frivolous.  Not everyone had parents that were willing or could afford to go without to help with school, on top of that the fact that these loans are supposed to help people get an education and better themselves, but instead continually grow and keep people saddled with lifetime debt while making a profit for the government is fucked up.  I don't know how many time I have to say this.   I took out 15k for trade school.  have been paying for almost 10 years now only got below 10k because of the interest rate freeze.  Now that payments and interest are back up if I continue making my payments I will pay 15k over the next 10 years to pay the damn thing off.     All the while my government provided student loan has changed services so many times there is no way to accurately figure out how much I have already paid on my 15K, however I am sure it is well over 20k at this point.  The system is fucked and these people aren't getting free money.  It's trying to fix a broken system.  If these were the terms to get into Trump U half of the people complaining about taking responsibility would be talking about how people got screwed. 

I've told this story before somewhere on here....

I remember visiting my daughter at college several years ago and her roommate was having an issue paying rent because her student loan had not come through yet. These kids were borrowing $25K/year to go to a state school. Roughly $12K tuition and $13K room and board. Insane.

I've also run into people that lived at home, worked full time, and paid their own way. Very smart.

Some people just aren't that smart. These loans were predatory.

Room and board is a joke. It's cheaper to live off campus a lot of the time, and much better conditions.

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 

I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 

you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 

That's not really true. We have subsidized higher ed. Its community college.
Community college is easier to get into than a 4 year school. they are all over the country. Often in rural areas and more accessible than many 4 years. I did my first year there, it cost me $12 per unit.  Got my first year of college out of the way for about $300. I looked it up a few months ago when I was having a similar conversation, and the cost hasn't gone up much.
I just find it hard to sympathize with someone's debt who chose to go to a 4 year school and never considered other options such as a 2 year  first, then transfer. There are 2 year schools all over. But so few even consider it. They go straight to a 4 year, then complain about the cost.
Pick a school that suits your needs and within your budget. If cost is a factor, go to community college first. You get the same diploma in the end. 
And that's just one example. There are other ways to avoid going into massive debt for school. But if you're set on a specific school and insist on spending all 4 years there and need to take out loans to make it happen, then yes it gets very expensive. 

Halifax2TheMax said:

Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.

You're conflating two things.  Private student loans are not part of forgiveness,  only federal.  That's why I say the rates are fair,  because they are linked to the discount rate. I believe it's still less than 5% for this year. 

When the government got out of the student loan business and privatized it, the interest rates were no longer as low as they had been. That was one of the raging debates at the time. There are still government loan programs but most people are income earned out, via parent income tax return data for previous two years. Which puts you in the private loan market with higher interest rates.

Halifax2TheMax said:

And prior to 2013, federal student loans were a fixed interest rate. Now they adjust annually. Lots of information here. It’s a complicated issue with several factors contributing to the issue. One that other nations don’t seem to have the same issues with, as pointed out by another poster. USA! USA! USA! We’re number 1! We’re number 1! We’re number 1!

https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-interest-rate

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

And prior to 2013, federal student loans were a fixed interest rate. Now they adjust annually. Lots of information here. It’s a complicated issue with several factors contributing to the issue. One that other nations don’t seem to have the same issues with, as pointed out by another poster. USA! USA! USA! We’re number 1! We’re number 1! We’re number 1!

https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-interest-rate

They should adjust annually since the cost to borrow is tied to the Fed funds rate. 

To me, the govt should not be trying to make money on these loans so the rate should be the cost to borrow plus the servicing overhead.  It's not designed to be an entitlement.  In other words,  ideally it's break even.  But you have to keep these out of BK. If you could discharge them,  then you'd be a fool not to try.  

This is exactly what I think, but I would go one step further and say once that issue is addressed, try to move to a European model where people don't have to borrow a shit ton of money in the first place.  If we keep doing it the same way and emphasizing that people need to spend thousands of dollars on a college education in order to succeed in American society the situation will just repeat itself at some point in the future.

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.

You're conflating two things.  Private student loans are not part of forgiveness,  only federal.  That's why I say the rates are fair,  because they are linked to the discount rate. I believe it's still less than 5% for this year. 

When the government got out of the student loan business and privatized it, the interest rates were no longer as low as they had been. That was one of the raging debates at the time. There are still government loan programs but most people are income earned out, via parent income tax return data for previous two years. Which puts you in the private loan market with higher interest rates.

All true,  but still not part of the Biden program.  I would likely argue that the rates,  by and large,  are not predatory.  Particularity the ones from Discover,  SoFi, Citi, etc. Since they are not subsidized,, they have to match the risk profile.  And they are not a public service,  they are for profit.  So they should be several points higher than subsidized.