#46 President Joe Biden

mrussel1

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 

I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 

Many people have to take out loans and work several jobs just to go to community college.  Many also had zero financial education.  I think you are viewing student loans as something frivolous.  Not everyone had parents that were willing or could afford to go without to help with school, on top of that the fact that these loans are supposed to help people get an education and better themselves, but instead continually grow and keep people saddled with lifetime debt while making a profit for the government is fucked up.  I don't know how many time I have to say this.   I took out 15k for trade school.  have been paying for almost 10 years now only got below 10k because of the interest rate freeze.  Now that payments and interest are back up if I continue making my payments I will pay 15k over the next 10 years to pay the damn thing off.     All the while my government provided student loan has changed services so many times there is no way to accurately figure out how much I have already paid on my 15K, however I am sure it is well over 20k at this point.  The system is fucked and these people aren't getting free money.  It's trying to fix a broken system.  If these were the terms to get into Trump U half of the people complaining about taking responsibility would be talking about how people got screwed. 

I've told this story before somewhere on here....

I remember visiting my daughter at college several years ago and her roommate was having an issue paying rent because her student loan had not come through yet. These kids were borrowing $25K/year to go to a state school. Roughly $12K tuition and $13K room and board. Insane.

I've also run into people that lived at home, worked full time, and paid their own way. Very smart.

Some people just aren't that smart. These loans were predatory.

Room and board is a joke. It's cheaper to live off campus a lot of the time, and much better conditions.

I wish that were true.  My son's off campus bills are brutal.  Plus you have to take 12 month leases.

The 12 month is the only catch. But even then, when I did it, you split a 2 bedroom apartment 4 ways, costs like $400 in rent. Most meals involve chicken and rice, Mac n cheese or cereal, Maybe not a huge saver, but seemed like it was cheaper. And you get an apartment, not a 10x10 room and a community shower.

Most student housing at large universities is different now.  You have your own lease that you sign.  It comes with everything but electricity but the bill is split automatically by the leasing company.  It's definitely more expensive than the old days, but I like not having to sign a lease for everyone.  In case you are wondering, my son lives in a 5 bedroom and it's $800 per month.  It is not cheap.  They could have gone cheaper, but all of his friends suck (so does he) and they got a nice place.  

Sorry to butt in but I'm just curious- is that $800 per person or $800 for the whole place?  One incredibly inexpensive, the other seems rather high if $800 x 5.

Per person.  And yes,  it's incredibly expensive but less than what I paid for my oldest daughter for her apartment at William and Mary..  But that's why God created 529s.

Wow!  And I thought prices were high where I live. 
It's tough as hell on kids today.  In my college years, people like myself and some of my friends could take classes, work at minimum wage jobs, afford tickets to venues like Fillmore West and Winterland, and live in a decent place in San Francisco.  I really feel for these kids.

That's how I did college.  I was a restaurant manager,  worked 40-50 per week and then took 3-4 classes all year.  Never lived on campus.  It was hard though and I didn't really want my kids to do that too. 

BTW, I think you're the lucky one.  I was in Dana Point this past weekend and told my wife that if I could go back to any part of American history,  it would be California,  late 60s. I would have loved to have been in the Canyon or up by you during that time.  Just something about the California scene ..

HughFreakingDillon

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 

I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 

Many people have to take out loans and work several jobs just to go to community college.  Many also had zero financial education.  I think you are viewing student loans as something frivolous.  Not everyone had parents that were willing or could afford to go without to help with school, on top of that the fact that these loans are supposed to help people get an education and better themselves, but instead continually grow and keep people saddled with lifetime debt while making a profit for the government is fucked up.  I don't know how many time I have to say this.   I took out 15k for trade school.  have been paying for almost 10 years now only got below 10k because of the interest rate freeze.  Now that payments and interest are back up if I continue making my payments I will pay 15k over the next 10 years to pay the damn thing off.     All the while my government provided student loan has changed services so many times there is no way to accurately figure out how much I have already paid on my 15K, however I am sure it is well over 20k at this point.  The system is fucked and these people aren't getting free money.  It's trying to fix a broken system.  If these were the terms to get into Trump U half of the people complaining about taking responsibility would be talking about how people got screwed. 

I've told this story before somewhere on here....

I remember visiting my daughter at college several years ago and her roommate was having an issue paying rent because her student loan had not come through yet. These kids were borrowing $25K/year to go to a state school. Roughly $12K tuition and $13K room and board. Insane.

I've also run into people that lived at home, worked full time, and paid their own way. Very smart.

Some people just aren't that smart. These loans were predatory.

Room and board is a joke. It's cheaper to live off campus a lot of the time, and much better conditions.

I wish that were true.  My son's off campus bills are brutal.  Plus you have to take 12 month leases.

The 12 month is the only catch. But even then, when I did it, you split a 2 bedroom apartment 4 ways, costs like $400 in rent. Most meals involve chicken and rice, Mac n cheese or cereal, Maybe not a huge saver, but seemed like it was cheaper. And you get an apartment, not a 10x10 room and a community shower.

Most student housing at large universities is different now.  You have your own lease that you sign.  It comes with everything but electricity but the bill is split automatically by the leasing company.  It's definitely more expensive than the old days, but I like not having to sign a lease for everyone.  In case you are wondering, my son lives in a 5 bedroom and it's $800 per month.  It is not cheap.  They could have gone cheaper, but all of his friends suck (so does he) and they got a nice place.  

Sorry to butt in but I'm just curious- is that $800 per person or $800 for the whole place?  One incredibly inexpensive, the other seems rather high if $800 x 5.

Per person.  And yes,  it's incredibly expensive but less than what I paid for my oldest daughter for her apartment at William and Mary..  But that's why God created 529s.

Wow!  And I thought prices were high where I live. 
It's tough as hell on kids today.  In my college years, people like myself and some of my friends could take classes, work at minimum wage jobs, afford tickets to venues like Fillmore West and Winterland, and live in a decent place in San Francisco.  I really feel for these kids.

That's how I did college.  I was a restaurant manager,  worked 40-50 per week and then took 3-4 classes all year.  Never lived on campus.  It was hard though and I didn't really want my kids to do that too. 

BTW, I think you're the lucky one.  I was in Dana Point this past weekend and told my wife that if I could go back to any part of American history,  it would be California,  late 60s. I would have loved to have been in the Canyon or up by you during that time.  Just something about the California scene ..

i said the exact same thing to my wife last week when she was watching Daisy and The Six. 

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.

You're conflating two things.  Private student loans are not part of forgiveness,  only federal.  That's why I say the rates are fair,  because they are linked to the discount rate. I believe it's still less than 5% for this year. 

When the government got out of the student loan business and privatized it, the interest rates were no longer as low as they had been. That was one of the raging debates at the time. There are still government loan programs but most people are income earned out, via parent income tax return data for previous two years. Which puts you in the private loan market with higher interest rates.

All true,  but still not part of the Biden program.  I would likely argue that the rates,  by and large,  are not predatory.  Particularity the ones from Discover,  SoFi, Citi, etc. Since they are not subsidized,, they have to match the risk profile.  And they are not a public service,  they are for profit.  So they should be several points higher than subsidized. 

I would be for lower rates for federal student loans. We don't need to make money off it. I'm for helping people do better.
I guess a better way to say I'm against the forgiveness is mostly 2 reasons. There's no such thing as free money. It's not like China is paying it off for us. If that were the case, I'd be happy for everyone who got it. There's no such thing as free money, just taking it from someone else.

And second, there needs to be an obligation to minimize the cost by the consumer. I've already talked about some. How many kids don't even consider a cheaper school and transferring? Most don't even consider that option. College has become known as a 2 year party and then get serious for the last 2. Kids go off to college, party for 2 years and "find themselves" and are already 40k in debt before they even get serious about school. And it's not uncommon to misuse student loans. I mean, many of them just put money into the account of an 18 year old. Many schools already subsidize tuition based on income. We need to change the culture about how we look at school.
As a teacher I was instructed to not encourage or talk about community school to students. The reason was because the school wanted a higher 4-year university acceptance and attendance rate to publish. Schools will usually post how many of their students got accepted to and attended a 4 year school, if kids are going off to a 2 year school to get their GE credits out of the way first, the school can't brag on them. It made me mad.

Kids aren't the problem,  it's parents.  I didn't expect my child to understand everything you put forth.  That was my job.  And I told my kids "no private or out of state public unless you're on scholarship".  That was the college rule.  But I know plenty of parents who have let their kids choose private schools that I know they can't afford. People who know better 

You're right, especially about private/out of state vs public. USC is something like 60k for tuition, while UCLA in-state is like 15k. It's crazy what the difference is. That's what I meant about taking som obligation on reducing your own costs, if you can't afford it, don't go to USC. I can't really feel bad for those who picked a school that costs 80k a year. And parents should be playing a big role in that decision to help their kids too.

Halifax2TheMax

The Juggler said:

Were the same people complaining about this complaining about "free money" when Trump got his $2 trillion dollar tax cut for the rich through a few years ago?

Remember how that was going to pay for itself and jolt the economy and gdp was going to rise and rise? 

Didn't happen. It was completely worthless and, of course, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more costly than this student loan thing. 

6% GDP growth rate, quarter over quarter, for ten fucking years, and it would pay for itself. And where is Steve Munchkin today? Or Betsy DeVoid. Good lord. But let’s go Brandon, right?

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.

You're conflating two things.  Private student loans are not part of forgiveness,  only federal.  That's why I say the rates are fair,  because they are linked to the discount rate. I believe it's still less than 5% for this year. 

When the government got out of the student loan business and privatized it, the interest rates were no longer as low as they had been. That was one of the raging debates at the time. There are still government loan programs but most people are income earned out, via parent income tax return data for previous two years. Which puts you in the private loan market with higher interest rates.

All true,  but still not part of the Biden program.  I would likely argue that the rates,  by and large,  are not predatory.  Particularity the ones from Discover,  SoFi, Citi, etc. Since they are not subsidized,, they have to match the risk profile.  And they are not a public service,  they are for profit.  So they should be several points higher than subsidized. 

I would be for lower rates for federal student loans. We don't need to make money off it. I'm for helping people do better.
I guess a better way to say I'm against the forgiveness is mostly 2 reasons. There's no such thing as free money. It's not like China is paying it off for us. If that were the case, I'd be happy for everyone who got it. There's no such thing as free money, just taking it from someone else.

And second, there needs to be an obligation to minimize the cost by the consumer. I've already talked about some. How many kids don't even consider a cheaper school and transferring? Most don't even consider that option. College has become known as a 2 year party and then get serious for the last 2. Kids go off to college, party for 2 years and "find themselves" and are already 40k in debt before they even get serious about school. And it's not uncommon to misuse student loans. I mean, many of them just put money into the account of an 18 year old. Many schools already subsidize tuition based on income. We need to change the culture about how we look at school.
As a teacher I was instructed to not encourage or talk about community school to students. The reason was because the school wanted a higher 4-year university acceptance and attendance rate to publish. Schools will usually post how many of their students got accepted to and attended a 4 year school, if kids are going off to a 2 year school to get their GE credits out of the way first, the school can't brag on them. It made me mad.

Kids aren't the problem,  it's parents.  I didn't expect my child to understand everything you put forth.  That was my job.  And I told my kids "no private or out of state public unless you're on scholarship".  That was the college rule.  But I know plenty of parents who have let their kids choose private schools that I know they can't afford. People who know better 

You're right, especially about private/out of state vs public. USC is something like 60k for tuition, while UCLA in-state is like 15k. It's crazy what the difference is. That's what I meant about taking som obligation on reducing your own costs, if you can't afford it, don't go to USC. I can't really feel bad for those who picked a school that costs 80k a year. And parents should be playing a big role in that decision to help their kids too.

As our kids got older and started thinking about college I could not fucking believe the people that took their kids out of state.

For some reason U of Alabama is really popular for central IN kids. Why in the name of god would you pay out of state tuition? I know that some kids likely got some scholarship but there is no way that they paid less to AL than they would to IU, Purdue, Ball State, IN State, etc.

And the families that I remember were not wealthy at all. Upper middle class maybe. Just the thought of driving my kid to a school 10 hours away would drive me insane.

The Juggler

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Were the same people complaining about this complaining about "free money" when Trump got his $2 trillion dollar tax cut for the rich through a few years ago?

Remember how that was going to pay for itself and jolt the economy and gdp was going to rise and rise? 

Didn't happen. It was completely worthless and, of course, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more costly than this student loan thing. 

Two TRILLION dollars vs 127 billion dollars. Is it just the money that's the issue here? lol

Halifax2TheMax

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Were the same people complaining about this complaining about "free money" when Trump got his $2 trillion dollar tax cut for the rich through a few years ago?

Remember how that was going to pay for itself and jolt the economy and gdp was going to rise and rise? 

Didn't happen. It was completely worthless and, of course, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more costly than this student loan thing. 

Two TRILLION dollars vs 127 billion dollars. Is it just the money that's the issue here? lol

It’s about “the other” getting something they didn’t get and deserved more because they’re the “real” ‘Muricans. In a nut shell.

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.

You're conflating two things.  Private student loans are not part of forgiveness,  only federal.  That's why I say the rates are fair,  because they are linked to the discount rate. I believe it's still less than 5% for this year. 

When the government got out of the student loan business and privatized it, the interest rates were no longer as low as they had been. That was one of the raging debates at the time. There are still government loan programs but most people are income earned out, via parent income tax return data for previous two years. Which puts you in the private loan market with higher interest rates.

All true,  but still not part of the Biden program.  I would likely argue that the rates,  by and large,  are not predatory.  Particularity the ones from Discover,  SoFi, Citi, etc. Since they are not subsidized,, they have to match the risk profile.  And they are not a public service,  they are for profit.  So they should be several points higher than subsidized. 

I would be for lower rates for federal student loans. We don't need to make money off it. I'm for helping people do better.
I guess a better way to say I'm against the forgiveness is mostly 2 reasons. There's no such thing as free money. It's not like China is paying it off for us. If that were the case, I'd be happy for everyone who got it. There's no such thing as free money, just taking it from someone else.

And second, there needs to be an obligation to minimize the cost by the consumer. I've already talked about some. How many kids don't even consider a cheaper school and transferring? Most don't even consider that option. College has become known as a 2 year party and then get serious for the last 2. Kids go off to college, party for 2 years and "find themselves" and are already 40k in debt before they even get serious about school. And it's not uncommon to misuse student loans. I mean, many of them just put money into the account of an 18 year old. Many schools already subsidize tuition based on income. We need to change the culture about how we look at school.
As a teacher I was instructed to not encourage or talk about community school to students. The reason was because the school wanted a higher 4-year university acceptance and attendance rate to publish. Schools will usually post how many of their students got accepted to and attended a 4 year school, if kids are going off to a 2 year school to get their GE credits out of the way first, the school can't brag on them. It made me mad.

Kids aren't the problem,  it's parents.  I didn't expect my child to understand everything you put forth.  That was my job.  And I told my kids "no private or out of state public unless you're on scholarship".  That was the college rule.  But I know plenty of parents who have let their kids choose private schools that I know they can't afford. People who know better 

You're right, especially about private/out of state vs public. USC is something like 60k for tuition, while UCLA in-state is like 15k. It's crazy what the difference is. That's what I meant about taking som obligation on reducing your own costs, if you can't afford it, don't go to USC. I can't really feel bad for those who picked a school that costs 80k a year. And parents should be playing a big role in that decision to help their kids too.

As our kids got older and started thinking about college I could not fucking believe the people that took their kids out of state.

For some reason U of Alabama is really popular for central IN kids. Why in the name of god would you pay out of state tuition? I know that some kids likely got some scholarship but there is no way that they paid less to AL than they would to IU, Purdue, Ball State, IN State, etc.

And the families that I remember were not wealthy at all. Upper middle class maybe. Just the thought of driving my kid to a school 10 hours away would drive me insane.

Here it's NC State.  I'm not sure why but a lot of kids go there.  It's stupid.  We have UVA, William and Mary,  James Madison,  V Tech, and more excellent public universities.  

The family across the street is single income,  4 kids.  Three in college at the same time.  Oldest went to UVA (great call). Second started at UGA for no apparent reason,  but transferred in state wisely.  The third is my son's age.  He went Richmond which is private and 60k per year.  His parents both went there.  But 60k per year and he's going to be a teacher.  God bless him for being a teacher,  that's awesome.  But he didn't need to go to UR for that.  

The Juggler

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Were the same people complaining about this complaining about "free money" when Trump got his $2 trillion dollar tax cut for the rich through a few years ago?

Remember how that was going to pay for itself and jolt the economy and gdp was going to rise and rise? 

Didn't happen. It was completely worthless and, of course, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more costly than this student loan thing. 

Two TRILLION dollars vs 127 billion dollars. Is it just the money that's the issue here? lol

It’s about “the other” getting something they didn’t get and deserved more because they’re the “real” ‘Muricans. In a nut shell.

I know. My post was meant to be rhetorical. 

Halifax2TheMax

The Juggler said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The Juggler said:

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

Were the same people complaining about this complaining about "free money" when Trump got his $2 trillion dollar tax cut for the rich through a few years ago?

Remember how that was going to pay for itself and jolt the economy and gdp was going to rise and rise? 

Didn't happen. It was completely worthless and, of course, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more costly than this student loan thing. 

Two TRILLION dollars vs 127 billion dollars. Is it just the money that's the issue here? lol

It’s about “the other” getting something they didn’t get and deserved more because they’re the “real” ‘Muricans. In a nut shell.

I know. My post was meant to be rhetorical. 

It needs to be pointed out or stated. While we’re at it, why should I work and pay into social security so some high school dropout bum who never earned above minimum wage can collect social security and Medicare?

mace1229

If our bar is so low that we approve of anything as long as we can find something worse someone else did, then that's a pretty sad bar.

The Juggler

mace1229 said:

If our bar is so low that we approve of anything as long as we can find something worse someone else did, then that's a pretty sad bar.

2 trillion is a whole lot more than 127 billion, no? 

mace1229

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

If our bar is so low that we approve of anything as long as we can find something worse someone else did, then that's a pretty sad bar.

2 trillion is a whole lot more than 127 billion, no? 

It is. But has absolutely nothing to do with the current conversation. I think that cut was unnecessary too. But the norm seems to be any time someone points out something Biden did they don't like, is to point out something Trump did they didn't like. 
Trumps tax cuts have nothing to do with the loan bail out. Why can't we just debate the topic instead of bringing up unrelated spending?

The Juggler

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

If our bar is so low that we approve of anything as long as we can find something worse someone else did, then that's a pretty sad bar.

2 trillion is a whole lot more than 127 billion, no? 

It is. But has absolutely nothing to do with the current conversation. I think that cut was unnecessary too. But the norm seems to be any time someone points out something Biden did they don't like, is to point out something Trump did they didn't like. 
Trumps tax cuts have nothing to do with the loan bail out. Why can't we just debate the topic instead of bringing up unrelated spending?

The issue people seem to be concerned about is that this money is a "hand out" and "free money" for people. Well, I just find it interesting that the amount of this free money pales in comparison to the amount of free money handed out to a different sector of people by the former president who is very likely going to be the republican nominee next year. I saw far less outrage over that compared to this despite the enormous difference in dollar amounts. Seems like a perfectly natural comparison to make since both people will likely be on the ballot again next year. 

Merkin Baller

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

If our bar is so low that we approve of anything as long as we can find something worse someone else did, then that's a pretty sad bar.

2 trillion is a whole lot more than 127 billion, no? 

It is. But has absolutely nothing to do with the current conversation. I think that cut was unnecessary too. But the norm seems to be any time someone points out something Biden did they don't like, is to point out something Trump did they didn't like. 
Trumps tax cuts have nothing to do with the loan bail out. Why can't we just debate the topic instead of bringing up unrelated spending?

The issue people seem to be concerned about is that this money is a "hand out" and "free money" for people. Well, I just find it interesting that the amount of this free money pales in comparison to the amount of free money handed out to a different sector of people by the former president who is very likely going to be the republican nominee next year. I saw far less outrage over that compared to this despite the enormous difference in dollar amounts. Seems like a perfectly natural comparison to make since both people will likely be on the ballot again next year. 

It's no different than the mishandling of classified documents. 

They were a problem when it was Hillary, but have no impact on tfg's standing as the GOP front runner for 2024.

The hypocrisy isn't a bug, it's a feature. 

The Juggler

Merkin Baller said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

If our bar is so low that we approve of anything as long as we can find something worse someone else did, then that's a pretty sad bar.

2 trillion is a whole lot more than 127 billion, no? 

It is. But has absolutely nothing to do with the current conversation. I think that cut was unnecessary too. But the norm seems to be any time someone points out something Biden did they don't like, is to point out something Trump did they didn't like. 
Trumps tax cuts have nothing to do with the loan bail out. Why can't we just debate the topic instead of bringing up unrelated spending?

The issue people seem to be concerned about is that this money is a "hand out" and "free money" for people. Well, I just find it interesting that the amount of this free money pales in comparison to the amount of free money handed out to a different sector of people by the former president who is very likely going to be the republican nominee next year. I saw far less outrage over that compared to this despite the enormous difference in dollar amounts. Seems like a perfectly natural comparison to make since both people will likely be on the ballot again next year. 

It's no different than the mishandling of classified documents. 

They were a problem when it was Hillary, but have no impact on tfg's standing as the GOP front runner for 2024.

The hypocrisy isn't a bug, it's a feature. 

And I feel it's disingenuous to act like making those comparison is not warranted or something. The guy will be on the ballot again. Of course it's worth bringing up. 

static111

Reading through this it seems like a lot of people are taking the baseline that most people taking out loans are middle or upper middle class with stable families that can help them make educated decisions and support them financially, and that the loans are just a frivolous waste of money.  That really isn't what got us here.  Poor people and lower middle class can't afford college, community or otherwise without loans.  Sure you can opine about how easy it was to pay back in the late 80's or 90's when costs weren't insane and rent was cheap, and I don't mean on campus, that hasn't been the case for at least 20 years though.  The other thing that people seem to be failing to see is that a lot of people did not have financially literate parents especially those from lower incomes to help them make these decisions, and don't forget poor and lower income areas have worse schools with less money and have a hard time bringing in good educators let alone establishing any type of educational system other than teaching to the standardized test so they can continue to get their meagre funding.  So you get people in their teens and 20's that have no idea how money works being told you have to go to school to get ahead that can't afford it and are told that government loans are a very safe and affordable way to go, so they sign next to the x and expect that is how it will go. Then the loans balloon and balloon and never go away.

Now someone is actually trying to help these people and somehow this is a bad thing and is taking other peoples money, well whose money are they getting?.  Its fucking taxes that we all pay going to citizens that need help.  I would much rather it went to citizens that needed educational help even if some high income people get a little benefit, because no system is perfect.  It beats tax cuts for the rich, money to Ukraine, money to Israel, Trillions to the DoD that is largely unaccounted for, millions to the losing war on drugs etc.  How people can see anything bad about American tax dollars helping out American citizens that need a break is beyond me.  But hey maybe the money would be better spent on law and order and punishing people their whole lives for making uninformed decisions that the educational system and society never equipped them to make predicated on a lie pushed on them from elementary school that that was the best way to get ahead.

static111

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

.

mace1229 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

shecky said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

guess what maga.

biden said he will allow wall funding in exchage for ukraine funding. your side said they would fund ukraine if the wall got funded. 

there ya go. 

you can't renege on that.

this is a master stroke of political chess. choke on it, gop.

But, according to you, "that money has to be used for what it was appropriated for, so it has to go to the border wall". 
So, evidently Joey has no authority to "allow wall funding" or anything else, it's not his decision to make.
JoJo sure plays a mean game of checkers.  

.

man y’all conservatives got the solution figured out

I haven't commented here because I understand Biden is following law and wasn't his decision.
But I have never understood this argument. Just because something isn't 100% successful, we shouldn't do it?
Isn't most of the gun thread filled with the opposite comments? If a law would prevent just a small percentage of shootings, isn't it worth it?
There are other factors to debate with about a wall; cost, invasive, etc. But showing a picture of some climbing it isn't a big factor. 

static111

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

cry harder

It seems like you are taking the opinion of where is my free money, what about me look what my parents did for me etc.  Rather than being happy that some people are getting help.  It also appears that you think this whole thing was brought on by people making frivolous decisions to go to expensive schools etc.  Most people who are taking out loans are economically disadvantaged and don't really have another choice.  Sure some people that come from higher economic backgrounds or don't need the help, but I have never understood the argument that because something wasn't 100% successful, we shouldn't do it.  What if not helping people do you think our taxes should go to, I mean it all comes down to giving away someone else's free money at the end of the day.

Halifax2TheMax

static111 said:

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1709569057882542546?t=anTO66tYvKXrQbPwNQSCOg&s=19

So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
When do they get their free money?

cry harder

It seems like you are taking the opinion of where is my free money, what about me look what my parents did for me etc.  Rather than being happy that some people are getting help.  It also appears that you think this whole thing was brought on by people making frivolous decisions to go to expensive schools etc.  Most people who are taking out loans are economically disadvantaged and don't really have another choice.  Sure some people that come from higher economic backgrounds or don't need the help, but I have never understood the argument that because something wasn't 100% successful, we shouldn't do it.  What if not helping people do you think our taxes should go to, I mean it all comes down to giving away someone else's free money at the end of the day.

Horatio Alger is alive in well in the ‘Murican psyche. Give tax breaks to the wealthy so they can create the jobs that you’ll work in and if you do it hard enough, you’ll eventually be just like them, if only the oppressive government would get out of the way and stop holding you back or giving things to those lazy “others.” Trickle down.

I’m fine with “bottom up, middle out.”