*** DONALD J TRUMP HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN INDICTED ***

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Comments

  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,577
    2022
    well, yes, conviction is obviously a whole other ball of wax. 
    I bet there will be some kind of settlement reached...at least for this one. 


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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 12,365
    Yeah, I have to think the GJ was given no small amount of instructions about how unprecedented and important this case was & how crucial it is to get it right. 
    For the record, I don't think a conviction is a slam dunk... if anything I think it's still a long shot but I do have to assume the evidence is pretty compelling for the gj to vote to indict. 

    & hopefully that evidence finds the light of day. 
  • given2fly23given2fly23 Evanston, IL Posts: 6,016
    I bet there will be some kind of settlement reached...at least for this one.
    He would have to plead guilty, which I don't see him doing. He's spent his entire life in civil suits, but criminal court is a different world. He'll delay delay delay and fundraise fundraise fundraise from the idiots, but I don't see him coming to a plea agreement.


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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,606
    2021
    Yup. He completely abandoned all those suckers and losers, and they know it. 


    I think the potential problem is with independent and swing voters, if they buy into the whole witch hunt theme, which IMO is why it's important to steer the conversation away from dismissing this as simply being about hush money or sex. 

    Laws were broken here... if they weren't the GJ probably doesn't indict. 
    I don't buy that argument either.  That's gaslighting by Trump lackeys. If you are not inclined to vote for Trump,  an indictment isn't moving you to him.  It helps him with Desantis only. 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,657
    2021
    mace1229 said:
    I believe the argument is that the hush money violated campaign laws. The debate is since it likely helped his political campaign, it should have been considered campaign funds or something. In which case, it was not allowed or needed to be reported differently. 
    My understanding is if Trump can claim he wanted his affair kept quiet for personal and not political reasons, then there was nothing wrong with how it was paid. 
    False....he still conspired to deduct the hush money as "legal fees" on his taxes
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 43,468
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,697
    Read the article I gave you. It was about the Cohen case specifically. Does not say 60 years. 

    I think you should stop downplaying Cohen going to jail. If Cohen did not do what Trump told him to do regarding the Stormy Daniels, he would not have been in trouble and he would not have gone to jail. We should not have a separate justice system for the rich and powerful. It is simply not fair for Cohen to pay a price for this and for Trump not to. 

    There is a smoking gun. He has already been indicted. An impartial jury of 23 Americans would not indict a former president over nothing. 
    I agree with the last part. 

    Cohen had $6 million in tax fraud, he was going to jail either way. Who was that first winner of Survivor? He didn't pay taxes on his $1 million winnings and spent like 5 years in jail.
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 12,365
    mrussel1 said:
    I don't buy that argument either.  That's gaslighting by Trump lackeys. If you are not inclined to vote for Trump,  an indictment isn't moving you to him.  It helps him with Desantis only. 
    I'm not convinced one way or the other... I would like to think common sense will prevail, but there's still an unnerving amount of people out there who still think Biden didn't win. 
  • given2fly23given2fly23 Evanston, IL Posts: 6,016
    Short/simple summary from Politico:

    While the precise charges are secret for now, prosecutors have concluded they can prove a criminal case against Trump because of the apparent subterfuge surrounding a $130,000 payment to adult-film actress Stormy Daniels to keep her from publicizing her claim about a sexual encounter with Trump. Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen funded that payment through a home equity line of credit.

    Trump insisted in April 2018 he did not know about the hush money, but Cohen provided Congress a series of check images, signed by Trump, reflecting payments to Cohen that he said were reimbursements for the money he laid out, including at least two that came while Trump was in the White House. Cohen said that Trump and his company concealed the purpose of the payments by falsely labeling them as legal expenses.

    Under New York law, disguising such payments in corporate records is a crime, but typically only a misdemeanor. It becomes a felony if the false business records were intended to obscure a second crime. In this case, that second crime appears to be the use of the funds to advance Trump’s presidential campaign allegedly in violation of campaign finance laws.

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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,577
    2022
    mace1229 said:
    I agree with the last part. 

    Cohen had $6 million in tax fraud, he was going to jail either way. Who was that first winner of Survivor? He didn't pay taxes on his $1 million winnings and spent like 5 years in jail.
    But the only reason he was being scrutinized for the tax fraud was because of his involvement with this and the lying under oath though. 


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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,606
    2021
    Short/simple summary from Politico:

    While the precise charges are secret for now, prosecutors have concluded they can prove a criminal case against Trump because of the apparent subterfuge surrounding a $130,000 payment to adult-film actress Stormy Daniels to keep her from publicizing her claim about a sexual encounter with Trump. Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen funded that payment through a home equity line of credit.

    Trump insisted in April 2018 he did not know about the hush money, but Cohen provided Congress a series of check images, signed by Trump, reflecting payments to Cohen that he said were reimbursements for the money he laid out, including at least two that came while Trump was in the White House. Cohen said that Trump and his company concealed the purpose of the payments by falsely labeling them as legal expenses.

    Under New York law, disguising such payments in corporate records is a crime, but typically only a misdemeanor. It becomes a felony if the false business records were intended to obscure a second crime. In this case, that second crime appears to be the use of the funds to advance Trump’s presidential campaign allegedly in violation of campaign finance laws.

    I think the question is whether the secondary crime is federal or state.  The criticism I've seen is that if it's federal,  then the DOJ already declined to charge him.  However I don't know if he was president at the time of the decision.  I also don't know if NY has state campaign laws that apply to federal elections. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,972
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  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,381
    mace1229 said:
    I found this link, Lists counts 1-5 as tax evasion at 5 years. I don't know if that's each or total, I kind of assumed each since 1 year for each count seems small. But maybe not. Then count 6 lists 30 years for the bank fraud.
    https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax
    The bank fraud I think was the loan or refi he used to pay off Stormy. But that doesn't matter, its not Trump's fault he like on a bank loan, even if the loan was for him. The point is only a small fraction of what he was facing was for this payout and hiding the funds.

    If this was some guy I never heard of before who ran for office and paid off a porn star a week before the election. I'd probably think he's guilty but there'd be enough doubt when he says he did it for his family and personal reasons, not the election. It probably was both. So I agree there probably is more, because I don't see charges and an indictment on that alone, especially after all this time.
    They could have easily found communication between Trump and Cohen (text, emails, etc) discussing this that proves it was more for political than personal reasons. If he just says that Melania already knows then that would eliminate his personal reasons excuse.  And that would be the "smoking gun" I was talking about. 

    I also heard if trump paid Cohen back, as Trump now claims (or his layers), then it's not a political donation at all that needs to be documented. 

    But we don't know yet. It’s all just speculation. 

    He could have paid off stormy any date for ten years but did not. His wife knows he is a cheater. He finally had stormy paid  when his presidential election was weeks away. But somehow maga nation sees doubt.

    everyone else in america would go to jail for this


  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,430
    mickeyrat said:
    Wow. Displays the mindset (or lack thereof) perfectly. 
  • given2fly23given2fly23 Evanston, IL Posts: 6,016
    mrussel1 said:
    I think the question is whether the secondary crime is federal or state.  The criticism I've seen is that if it's federal,  then the DOJ already declined to charge him.  However I don't know if he was president at the time of the decision.  I also don't know if NY has state campaign laws that apply to federal elections. 
    He was. That DOJ memo about not charging a sitting POTUS needs to corrected by law, but of course that would require Congress to get its act together.

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  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,430
    Double wow. I want a third! 
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,577
    2022
    Wow. Displays the mindset (or lack thereof) perfectly. 
    There's no way this is real
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,606
    2021
    He was. That DOJ memo about not charging a sitting POTUS needs to corrected by law, but of course that would require Congress to get its act together.

    Ok so the defense by former DOJ officials like Andrew Mccarthy that the fed declined to charge didn't isn't a good counter. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,972
    2021
    Sure, POOTWH's not racist. At all.

    Former president Donald Trump lashed out Friday at the judge in Manhattan assigned to his case, claiming in a social media post that Justice Juan M. Merchan “HATES ME” and that he had “railroaded” Allen Weisselberg, the longtime chief financial officer of the Trump Organization, in a separate case.

    “The Judge ‘assigned’ to my Witch Hunt Case, a ‘Case’ that has NEVER BEEN CHARGED BEFORE, HATES ME,” Trump wrote in a post on Truth Social, his social media platform, in which he misspelled Merchan’s last name.

    Without citing evidence, Trump claimed that Merchan, who presided over the grand jury that voted to indict the former president, was “handpicked” by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and other prosecutors.

    Merchan was the judge who handled the trial of Weisselberg, who pleaded guilty to 15 felonies in a deal with prosecutors for his role in a decade-long tax fraud scheme.

    Merchan sentenced Weisselberg to five months in jail but said he regretted not handing out a “much stiffer” sentence.

    Trump has a long history of criticizing judges as biased, including some involved in cases of which he is a part.

    In 2016, for example, Trump repeatedly attacked Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who oversaw a fraud case against Trump University. In tweets, Trump claimed that Curiel was being unfair to him because the judge is “Hispanic” and “Mexican” and because Trump was trying to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border.

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,972
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  • KatKat Posts: 4,946
    mickeyrat said:
    omg is that a dumb tweet. 

    I was also thinking that if there is no plea agreement, there will be a trial presenting all of the evidence...and he wouldn't want that, right? Maybe it would all be televised like a really real reality show. 


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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,972
    2021

    The "smoking gun?" Only 147 checks written on that account? I wonder when it was opened? Maybe POOTWH uses Venmo?
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,657
    2021
    Kat said:
    omg is that a dumb tweet. 

    I was also thinking that if there is no plea agreement, there will be a trial presenting all of the evidence...and he wouldn't want that, right? Maybe it would all be televised like a really real reality show. 


    I heard earlier that this judge might allow photo cameras but likely not video cameras....not sure if true or not

    but yeah....he doesn't want all that detail out there. There were discussions between Eisenberg and Cohen to have someone else pay Stormy off and then just give them a mar-a-lago membership in exchange.

    Crazy
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    KP_McMinn said:
    Benjamin Franklin quote You and I were long friends you are now my

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,972
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    Weirder.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,972
    2021


    March 31, 2023

    By email

    The Honorable Jim Jordan Chairman, House Committee on the Judiciary
    The Honorable Bryan Steil Chairman, House Committee on House Administration
    The Honorable James Comer Chairman, House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

    Dear Chairman Jordan, Chairman Steil, and Chairman Comer:

    Yesterday, the District Attorney of New York County filed charges against Donald Trump for violations of New York law.1 The charges filed yesterday were brought by citizens of New York, doing their civic duty as members of a grand jury, who found probable cause to accuse Mr. Trump of having committed crimes in New York.

    Like any other defendant, Mr. Trump is entitled to challenge these charges in court and avail himself of all processes and protections that New York State’s robust criminal procedure affords. What neither Mr. Trump nor Congress may do is interfere with the ordinary course of proceedings in New York State. Your first letter made an unprecedented request to the District Attorney for confidential information about the status of the state grand jury investigation—now indictment— of Mr. Trump. Your second letter asserts that, by failing to provide it, the District Attorney somehow failed to dispute your baseless and inflammatory allegations that our investigation is politically motivated. That conclusion is misleading and meritless. We did not engage in a point-by-point rebuttal of your letter because our Office is legally constrained in how it publicly discusses pending criminal proceedings, as prosecutorial offices are across the country and as you well know. That secrecy is critical to protecting the privacy of the target of any criminal investigation as well as the integrity of the independent grand jury’s proceedings.2

     1 The charges contained in the indictment are merely allegations, and the defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.

     2 See, e.g., McKeever v. Barr, 920 F.3d 842, 844 (D.C. Cir. 2019) (“The Supreme Court has long maintained that the proper functioning of our grand jury system depends upon the secrecy of grand jury proceedings. That secrecy safeguards vital interests in (1) preserving the willingness and candor of witnesses called before the grand jury; (2) not alerting the target

    Continues..........

    Microsoft Word - 2023.03.31 - Letter Response from DANY.docx (politico.com)
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