*** DONALD J TRUMP HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN INDICTED ***

The Juggler

2022

HughFreakingDillon said:

well, yes, conviction is obviously a whole other ball of wax. 

I bet there will be some kind of settlement reached...at least for this one. 

Merkin Baller

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

this is an ex president. an ex president whose followers say they are willing to go to war if he gets charged/gets convicted/goes to jail. they've already stormed the capitol just for not being able to count. 

he wouldn't have been charged had this not been air tight. 

Yeah, I have to think the GJ was given no small amount of instructions about how unprecedented and important this case was & how crucial it is to get it right. 

For the record, I don't think a conviction is a slam dunk... if anything I think it's still a long shot but I do have to assume the evidence is pretty compelling for the gj to vote to indict. 

& hopefully that evidence finds the light of day. 

given2fly23

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

well, yes, conviction is obviously a whole other ball of wax. 

I bet there will be some kind of settlement reached...at least for this one.

He would have to plead guilty, which I don't see him doing. He's spent his entire life in civil suits, but criminal court is a different world. He'll delay delay delay and fundraise fundraise fundraise from the idiots, but I don't see him coming to a plea agreement.

mrussel1

2021

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

this is an ex president. an ex president whose followers say they are willing to go to war if he gets charged/gets convicted/goes to jail. they've already stormed the capitol just for not being able to count. 

he wouldn't have been charged had this not been air tight. 

These guys aren't doing jack.  They saw how they were hung out to dry when Trump was president.  He has no authority now.  Trump is trying to talk like a war is brewing along with right wing radio,  but there won't be anything close to J6.

Yup. He completely abandoned all those suckers and losers, and they know it. 


I think the potential problem is with independent and swing voters, if they buy into the whole witch hunt theme, which IMO is why it's important to steer the conversation away from dismissing this as simply being about hush money or sex. 

Laws were broken here... if they weren't the GJ probably doesn't indict. 

I don't buy that argument either.  That's gaslighting by Trump lackeys. If you are not inclined to vote for Trump,  an indictment isn't moving you to him.  It helps him with Desantis only. 

Gern Blansten

2021

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

The indictment is about campaign finance laws, & not hush money, no?

I believe the argument is that the hush money violated campaign laws. The debate is since it likely helped his political campaign, it should have been considered campaign funds or something. In which case, it was not allowed or needed to be reported differently. 
My understanding is if Trump can claim he wanted his affair kept quiet for personal and not political reasons, then there was nothing wrong with how it was paid. 

False....he still conspired to deduct the hush money as "legal fees" on his taxes

mickeyrat

someone gets it....

https://twitter.com/IAmJohnAles/status/1641863755251449856?t=yH6Lu4Ooiigc2WczsIqFKQ&s=19

ikiT

2023

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqdpAjKgbEE/

mace1229

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation. 

If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.

It's been like 12 hours, how are you that tired of its going to get uglier already?
But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.

Smoking gun? Mace, he's already indicted. His lawyer has already spent a year in jail. We are well past the point of smoking guns here. 

And, again, there are more indictments in his short term future. Buckle up. 

A few things I want to address.

I think those who said it wouldn't have gotten this far unless its a strong case are right.

I only made my first comment because I don't understand the response JB got when he said he hopes this sticks because if it doesn't, it will get ugly(ier). He's right. Those who breached the capitol because they thought the election was stolen, what will they do if they think he was wrongfully arrested? So why laugh at him for that comment? 

But I do have some questions. And I'm not asking because I think none of this sticks and is a witch hunt. I want to know.
What is the smoking gun that has been released to the public? Here's my understanding of what we know.
Hush money itself isn't illegal. How it is obtained can be. Trump and his attorneys had way more than enough money to pay off the $130,000 to Stormy. Doesn't Trump just have to argue he wanted Stormy quiet for personal reasons, he's married with kids, and not political? Then there's no campaign tie in. Cohen actually paid it her himself, not with any campaign funds.
I've seen conflicting stories if Trump paid Cohen back or not, I saw some where it was included in his monthly billing fees for a while, I saw some where Cohen denies being paid back.  Either way, I don't understand how that is a violation on Trump.

So by smoking gun I mean what do we know now that makes that untrue?

I know Cohen spent time in jail. Was every charge he faced connected with Stormy and/or Trump? I thought he was facing a bunch of charges, some were connected and some were not, and he just took a plea for it all? If that's the case, that doesn't say much.

The issue isn't just the hush money. I believe the issue is that it was paid to her to benefit his campaign but he did not report it as a campaign expense. So, basically, he hid that from the public and that is illegal. They will try and argue that it was only personal and not campaign related.....but she was paid off right before the election and shortly after the Access Hollywood tapes had come out. I think the timing makes this pretty obvious. Given how close that election was, you can easily make the argument that he would never have become president had the public known about this. 

Cohn went to jail for a few reasons, chief among them were campaign finance charges stemming from this Stormy Daniels case. He admitted he paid her off at the direction of Donald Trump. How that doesn't say much doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He went to jail, in large part, because he followed illegal orders given to him by the former president. Why should only Cohen pay a price for that? 

I agree with most of your first paragraph. Except the timing was because Stormy had just been trying to push her story. Its not like she's been trying to sell it for 10 years then Trump finale decides to pay her off right before the election, but rather that's when she saw her opportunity to make money off it. 
You and I both know it helped his campaign and probably the main reason he agreed to. But how do you prove that? He's certainly not the first man who's tried to hide an affair. Thus, one of the reasons I asked what's the new smoking gun? What do they know now that we don't?

I just googled it. Cohen was facing far more jail time for tax evasion and bank fraud. He hid $6 million in income from his taxes. Facing something like a max of 60 years for his financial fraud. So, doesn't seem like a big deal to me that he plead guilty to campaign fund fraud too and only had to serve 1 year for all of it. He was probably happy to plead guilty to everything for the sentence he got. 

The timing is everything. She came forward right before the election for obvious reasons. Trump paid her off for obvious reasons. Juries are not stupid. 

You keep saying "smoking gun" as if there is nothing to this. You would not get a panel of 23 impartial Americans to indict a former president for nothing. They believe he committed a crime.... likely the same one his lawyer spent time in jail for. Cohen admitted under oath that he did it at the direct of Trump. He's handed over all kinds of documentation to them over the last 5 years. 

Cohen was sentenced for tax evasion, lying about Trump's business dealings in Russia under oath (at Trump's direction, mind you) and for this campaign finance law that has gotten Trump indicted. I saw a max of 4-5 years. Where did you get 60? 
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-elections-crime-d6dbb8b02a4446f6800de794b45523e6

What do they know that we don't? Pretty much everything. lol

I found this link, Lists counts 1-5 as tax evasion at 5 years. I don't know if that's each or total, I kind of assumed each since 1 year for each count seems small. But maybe not. Then count 6 lists 30 years for the bank fraud.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax
The bank fraud I think was the loan or refi he used to pay off Stormy. But that doesn't matter, its not Trump's fault he like on a bank loan, even if the loan was for him. The point is only a small fraction of what he was facing was for this payout and hiding the funds.

If this was some guy I never heard of before who ran for office and paid off a porn star a week before the election. I'd probably think he's guilty but there'd be enough doubt when he says he did it for his family and personal reasons, not the election. It probably was both. So I agree there probably is more, because I don't see charges and an indictment on that alone, especially after all this time.
They could have easily found communication between Trump and Cohen (text, emails, etc) discussing this that proves it was more for political than personal reasons. If he just says that Melania already knows then that would eliminate his personal reasons excuse.  And that would be the "smoking gun" I was talking about. 

I also heard if trump paid Cohen back, as Trump now claims (or his layers), then it's not a political donation at all that needs to be documented. 

But we don't know yet. Its all just speculation. 

Read the article I gave you. It was about the Cohen case specifically. Does not say 60 years. 

I think you should stop downplaying Cohen going to jail. If Cohen did not do what Trump told him to do regarding the Stormy Daniels, he would not have been in trouble and he would not have gone to jail. We should not have a separate justice system for the rich and powerful. It is simply not fair for Cohen to pay a price for this and for Trump not to. 

There is a smoking gun. He has already been indicted. An impartial jury of 23 Americans would not indict a former president over nothing. 

I agree with the last part. 

Cohen had $6 million in tax fraud, he was going to jail either way. Who was that first winner of Survivor? He didn't pay taxes on his $1 million winnings and spent like 5 years in jail.

Merkin Baller

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

this is an ex president. an ex president whose followers say they are willing to go to war if he gets charged/gets convicted/goes to jail. they've already stormed the capitol just for not being able to count. 

he wouldn't have been charged had this not been air tight. 

These guys aren't doing jack.  They saw how they were hung out to dry when Trump was president.  He has no authority now.  Trump is trying to talk like a war is brewing along with right wing radio,  but there won't be anything close to J6.

Yup. He completely abandoned all those suckers and losers, and they know it. 


I think the potential problem is with independent and swing voters, if they buy into the whole witch hunt theme, which IMO is why it's important to steer the conversation away from dismissing this as simply being about hush money or sex. 

Laws were broken here... if they weren't the GJ probably doesn't indict. 

I don't buy that argument either.  That's gaslighting by Trump lackeys. If you are not inclined to vote for Trump,  an indictment isn't moving you to him.  It helps him with Desantis only. 

I'm not convinced one way or the other... I would like to think common sense will prevail, but there's still an unnerving amount of people out there who still think Biden didn't win. 

given2fly23

Short/simple summary from Politico:

While the precise charges are secret for now, prosecutors have concluded they can prove a criminal case against Trump because of the apparent subterfuge surrounding a $130,000 payment to adult-film actress Stormy Daniels to keep her from publicizing her claim about a sexual encounter with Trump. Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen funded that payment through a home equity line of credit.

Trump insisted in April 2018 he did not know about the hush money, but Cohen provided Congress a series of check images, signed by Trump, reflecting payments to Cohen that he said were reimbursements for the money he laid out, including at least two that came while Trump was in the White House. Cohen said that Trump and his company concealed the purpose of the payments by falsely labeling them as legal expenses.

Under New York law, disguising such payments in corporate records is a crime, but typically only a misdemeanor. It becomes a felony if the false business records were intended to obscure a second crime. In this case, that second crime appears to be the use of the funds to advance Trump’s presidential campaign allegedly in violation of campaign finance laws.

The Juggler

2022

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation. 

If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.

It's been like 12 hours, how are you that tired of its going to get uglier already?
But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.

Smoking gun? Mace, he's already indicted. His lawyer has already spent a year in jail. We are well past the point of smoking guns here. 

And, again, there are more indictments in his short term future. Buckle up. 

A few things I want to address.

I think those who said it wouldn't have gotten this far unless its a strong case are right.

I only made my first comment because I don't understand the response JB got when he said he hopes this sticks because if it doesn't, it will get ugly(ier). He's right. Those who breached the capitol because they thought the election was stolen, what will they do if they think he was wrongfully arrested? So why laugh at him for that comment? 

But I do have some questions. And I'm not asking because I think none of this sticks and is a witch hunt. I want to know.
What is the smoking gun that has been released to the public? Here's my understanding of what we know.
Hush money itself isn't illegal. How it is obtained can be. Trump and his attorneys had way more than enough money to pay off the $130,000 to Stormy. Doesn't Trump just have to argue he wanted Stormy quiet for personal reasons, he's married with kids, and not political? Then there's no campaign tie in. Cohen actually paid it her himself, not with any campaign funds.
I've seen conflicting stories if Trump paid Cohen back or not, I saw some where it was included in his monthly billing fees for a while, I saw some where Cohen denies being paid back.  Either way, I don't understand how that is a violation on Trump.

So by smoking gun I mean what do we know now that makes that untrue?

I know Cohen spent time in jail. Was every charge he faced connected with Stormy and/or Trump? I thought he was facing a bunch of charges, some were connected and some were not, and he just took a plea for it all? If that's the case, that doesn't say much.

The issue isn't just the hush money. I believe the issue is that it was paid to her to benefit his campaign but he did not report it as a campaign expense. So, basically, he hid that from the public and that is illegal. They will try and argue that it was only personal and not campaign related.....but she was paid off right before the election and shortly after the Access Hollywood tapes had come out. I think the timing makes this pretty obvious. Given how close that election was, you can easily make the argument that he would never have become president had the public known about this. 

Cohn went to jail for a few reasons, chief among them were campaign finance charges stemming from this Stormy Daniels case. He admitted he paid her off at the direction of Donald Trump. How that doesn't say much doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He went to jail, in large part, because he followed illegal orders given to him by the former president. Why should only Cohen pay a price for that? 

I agree with most of your first paragraph. Except the timing was because Stormy had just been trying to push her story. Its not like she's been trying to sell it for 10 years then Trump finale decides to pay her off right before the election, but rather that's when she saw her opportunity to make money off it. 
You and I both know it helped his campaign and probably the main reason he agreed to. But how do you prove that? He's certainly not the first man who's tried to hide an affair. Thus, one of the reasons I asked what's the new smoking gun? What do they know now that we don't?

I just googled it. Cohen was facing far more jail time for tax evasion and bank fraud. He hid $6 million in income from his taxes. Facing something like a max of 60 years for his financial fraud. So, doesn't seem like a big deal to me that he plead guilty to campaign fund fraud too and only had to serve 1 year for all of it. He was probably happy to plead guilty to everything for the sentence he got. 

The timing is everything. She came forward right before the election for obvious reasons. Trump paid her off for obvious reasons. Juries are not stupid. 

You keep saying "smoking gun" as if there is nothing to this. You would not get a panel of 23 impartial Americans to indict a former president for nothing. They believe he committed a crime.... likely the same one his lawyer spent time in jail for. Cohen admitted under oath that he did it at the direct of Trump. He's handed over all kinds of documentation to them over the last 5 years. 

Cohen was sentenced for tax evasion, lying about Trump's business dealings in Russia under oath (at Trump's direction, mind you) and for this campaign finance law that has gotten Trump indicted. I saw a max of 4-5 years. Where did you get 60? 
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-elections-crime-d6dbb8b02a4446f6800de794b45523e6

What do they know that we don't? Pretty much everything. lol

I found this link, Lists counts 1-5 as tax evasion at 5 years. I don't know if that's each or total, I kind of assumed each since 1 year for each count seems small. But maybe not. Then count 6 lists 30 years for the bank fraud.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax
The bank fraud I think was the loan or refi he used to pay off Stormy. But that doesn't matter, its not Trump's fault he like on a bank loan, even if the loan was for him. The point is only a small fraction of what he was facing was for this payout and hiding the funds.

If this was some guy I never heard of before who ran for office and paid off a porn star a week before the election. I'd probably think he's guilty but there'd be enough doubt when he says he did it for his family and personal reasons, not the election. It probably was both. So I agree there probably is more, because I don't see charges and an indictment on that alone, especially after all this time.
They could have easily found communication between Trump and Cohen (text, emails, etc) discussing this that proves it was more for political than personal reasons. If he just says that Melania already knows then that would eliminate his personal reasons excuse.  And that would be the "smoking gun" I was talking about. 

I also heard if trump paid Cohen back, as Trump now claims (or his layers), then it's not a political donation at all that needs to be documented. 

But we don't know yet. Its all just speculation. 

Read the article I gave you. It was about the Cohen case specifically. Does not say 60 years. 

I think you should stop downplaying Cohen going to jail. If Cohen did not do what Trump told him to do regarding the Stormy Daniels, he would not have been in trouble and he would not have gone to jail. We should not have a separate justice system for the rich and powerful. It is simply not fair for Cohen to pay a price for this and for Trump not to. 

There is a smoking gun. He has already been indicted. An impartial jury of 23 Americans would not indict a former president over nothing. 

I agree with the last part. 

Cohen had $6 million in tax fraud, he was going to jail either way. Who was that first winner of Survivor? He didn't pay taxes on his $1 million winnings and spent like 5 years in jail.

But the only reason he was being scrutinized for the tax fraud was because of his involvement with this and the lying under oath though. 


Richard Something? That was probably the last time I watched that show. haha

mrussel1

2021

given2fly23 said:

Short/simple summary from Politico:

While the precise charges are secret for now, prosecutors have concluded they can prove a criminal case against Trump because of the apparent subterfuge surrounding a $130,000 payment to adult-film actress Stormy Daniels to keep her from publicizing her claim about a sexual encounter with Trump. Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen funded that payment through a home equity line of credit.

Trump insisted in April 2018 he did not know about the hush money, but Cohen provided Congress a series of check images, signed by Trump, reflecting payments to Cohen that he said were reimbursements for the money he laid out, including at least two that came while Trump was in the White House. Cohen said that Trump and his company concealed the purpose of the payments by falsely labeling them as legal expenses.

Under New York law, disguising such payments in corporate records is a crime, but typically only a misdemeanor. It becomes a felony if the false business records were intended to obscure a second crime. In this case, that second crime appears to be the use of the funds to advance Trump’s presidential campaign allegedly in violation of campaign finance laws.

I think the question is whether the secondary crime is federal or state.  The criticism I've seen is that if it's federal,  then the DOJ already declined to charge him.  However I don't know if he was president at the time of the decision.  I also don't know if NY has state campaign laws that apply to federal elections. 

Halifax2TheMax

2021

mickeyrat said:

someone gets it....

https://twitter.com/IAmJohnAles/status/1641863755251449856?t=yH6Lu4Ooiigc2WczsIqFKQ&s=19

Wow! She's really that dumb.

Lerxst1992

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

It's been ugly for several years now; the finger wagging that this is going to get [uglier] if the charges don't stick is tiring. The fact is, no one knows what's going to happen, this is uncharted territory for the nation. 

If deplorable people want to act more deplorable because law enforcement agencies are doing their job, that's on them.

It's been like 12 hours, how are you that tired of its going to get uglier already?
But you're right on a few things. It's been ugly a while, and no one knows what's going to happen. I still predict the reaction is going to be even worse if there isn't a smoking gun and something more than hush money. There's probably going to be protests this weekend either way, just how bad will depend on what they know and have.

Smoking gun? Mace, he's already indicted. His lawyer has already spent a year in jail. We are well past the point of smoking guns here. 

And, again, there are more indictments in his short term future. Buckle up. 

A few things I want to address.

I think those who said it wouldn't have gotten this far unless its a strong case are right.

I only made my first comment because I don't understand the response JB got when he said he hopes this sticks because if it doesn't, it will get ugly(ier). He's right. Those who breached the capitol because they thought the election was stolen, what will they do if they think he was wrongfully arrested? So why laugh at him for that comment? 

But I do have some questions. And I'm not asking because I think none of this sticks and is a witch hunt. I want to know.
What is the smoking gun that has been released to the public? Here's my understanding of what we know.
Hush money itself isn't illegal. How it is obtained can be. Trump and his attorneys had way more than enough money to pay off the $130,000 to Stormy. Doesn't Trump just have to argue he wanted Stormy quiet for personal reasons, he's married with kids, and not political? Then there's no campaign tie in. Cohen actually paid it her himself, not with any campaign funds.
I've seen conflicting stories if Trump paid Cohen back or not, I saw some where it was included in his monthly billing fees for a while, I saw some where Cohen denies being paid back.  Either way, I don't understand how that is a violation on Trump.

So by smoking gun I mean what do we know now that makes that untrue?

I know Cohen spent time in jail. Was every charge he faced connected with Stormy and/or Trump? I thought he was facing a bunch of charges, some were connected and some were not, and he just took a plea for it all? If that's the case, that doesn't say much.

The issue isn't just the hush money. I believe the issue is that it was paid to her to benefit his campaign but he did not report it as a campaign expense. So, basically, he hid that from the public and that is illegal. They will try and argue that it was only personal and not campaign related.....but she was paid off right before the election and shortly after the Access Hollywood tapes had come out. I think the timing makes this pretty obvious. Given how close that election was, you can easily make the argument that he would never have become president had the public known about this. 

Cohn went to jail for a few reasons, chief among them were campaign finance charges stemming from this Stormy Daniels case. He admitted he paid her off at the direction of Donald Trump. How that doesn't say much doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He went to jail, in large part, because he followed illegal orders given to him by the former president. Why should only Cohen pay a price for that? 

I agree with most of your first paragraph. Except the timing was because Stormy had just been trying to push her story. Its not like she's been trying to sell it for 10 years then Trump finale decides to pay her off right before the election, but rather that's when she saw her opportunity to make money off it. 
You and I both know it helped his campaign and probably the main reason he agreed to. But how do you prove that? He's certainly not the first man who's tried to hide an affair. Thus, one of the reasons I asked what's the new smoking gun? What do they know now that we don't?

I just googled it. Cohen was facing far more jail time for tax evasion and bank fraud. He hid $6 million in income from his taxes. Facing something like a max of 60 years for his financial fraud. So, doesn't seem like a big deal to me that he plead guilty to campaign fund fraud too and only had to serve 1 year for all of it. He was probably happy to plead guilty to everything for the sentence he got. 

The timing is everything. She came forward right before the election for obvious reasons. Trump paid her off for obvious reasons. Juries are not stupid. 

You keep saying "smoking gun" as if there is nothing to this. You would not get a panel of 23 impartial Americans to indict a former president for nothing. They believe he committed a crime.... likely the same one his lawyer spent time in jail for. Cohen admitted under oath that he did it at the direct of Trump. He's handed over all kinds of documentation to them over the last 5 years. 

Cohen was sentenced for tax evasion, lying about Trump's business dealings in Russia under oath (at Trump's direction, mind you) and for this campaign finance law that has gotten Trump indicted. I saw a max of 4-5 years. Where did you get 60? 
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-elections-crime-d6dbb8b02a4446f6800de794b45523e6

What do they know that we don't? Pretty much everything. lol

I found this link, Lists counts 1-5 as tax evasion at 5 years. I don't know if that's each or total, I kind of assumed each since 1 year for each count seems small. But maybe not. Then count 6 lists 30 years for the bank fraud.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax
The bank fraud I think was the loan or refi he used to pay off Stormy. But that doesn't matter, its not Trump's fault he like on a bank loan, even if the loan was for him. The point is only a small fraction of what he was facing was for this payout and hiding the funds.

If this was some guy I never heard of before who ran for office and paid off a porn star a week before the election. I'd probably think he's guilty but there'd be enough doubt when he says he did it for his family and personal reasons, not the election. It probably was both. So I agree there probably is more, because I don't see charges and an indictment on that alone, especially after all this time.
They could have easily found communication between Trump and Cohen (text, emails, etc) discussing this that proves it was more for political than personal reasons. If he just says that Melania already knows then that would eliminate his personal reasons excuse.  And that would be the "smoking gun" I was talking about. 

I also heard if trump paid Cohen back, as Trump now claims (or his layers), then it's not a political donation at all that needs to be documented. 

But we don't know yet. It’s all just speculation. 

He could have paid off stormy any date for ten years but did not. His wife knows he is a cheater. He finally had stormy paid  when his presidential election was weeks away. But somehow maga nation sees doubt.

everyone else in america would go to jail for this

Go Beavers

mickeyrat said:

someone gets it....

https://twitter.com/IAmJohnAles/status/1641863755251449856?t=yH6Lu4Ooiigc2WczsIqFKQ&s=19

Wow. Displays the mindset (or lack thereof) perfectly. 

given2fly23

mrussel1 said:

given2fly23 said:

Short/simple summary from Politico:

While the precise charges are secret for now, prosecutors have concluded they can prove a criminal case against Trump because of the apparent subterfuge surrounding a $130,000 payment to adult-film actress Stormy Daniels to keep her from publicizing her claim about a sexual encounter with Trump. Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen funded that payment through a home equity line of credit.

Trump insisted in April 2018 he did not know about the hush money, but Cohen provided Congress a series of check images, signed by Trump, reflecting payments to Cohen that he said were reimbursements for the money he laid out, including at least two that came while Trump was in the White House. Cohen said that Trump and his company concealed the purpose of the payments by falsely labeling them as legal expenses.

Under New York law, disguising such payments in corporate records is a crime, but typically only a misdemeanor. It becomes a felony if the false business records were intended to obscure a second crime. In this case, that second crime appears to be the use of the funds to advance Trump’s presidential campaign allegedly in violation of campaign finance laws.

I think the question is whether the secondary crime is federal or state.  The criticism I've seen is that if it's federal,  then the DOJ already declined to charge him.  However I don't know if he was president at the time of the decision.  I also don't know if NY has state campaign laws that apply to federal elections. 

He was. That DOJ memo about not charging a sitting POTUS needs to corrected by law, but of course that would require Congress to get its act together.

Go Beavers

Double wow. I want a third! 

The Juggler

2022

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

someone gets it....

https://twitter.com/IAmJohnAles/status/1641863755251449856?t=yH6Lu4Ooiigc2WczsIqFKQ&s=19

Wow. Displays the mindset (or lack thereof) perfectly. 

There's no way this is real

mrussel1

2021

given2fly23 said:

mrussel1 said:

given2fly23 said:

Short/simple summary from Politico:

While the precise charges are secret for now, prosecutors have concluded they can prove a criminal case against Trump because of the apparent subterfuge surrounding a $130,000 payment to adult-film actress Stormy Daniels to keep her from publicizing her claim about a sexual encounter with Trump. Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen funded that payment through a home equity line of credit.

Trump insisted in April 2018 he did not know about the hush money, but Cohen provided Congress a series of check images, signed by Trump, reflecting payments to Cohen that he said were reimbursements for the money he laid out, including at least two that came while Trump was in the White House. Cohen said that Trump and his company concealed the purpose of the payments by falsely labeling them as legal expenses.

Under New York law, disguising such payments in corporate records is a crime, but typically only a misdemeanor. It becomes a felony if the false business records were intended to obscure a second crime. In this case, that second crime appears to be the use of the funds to advance Trump’s presidential campaign allegedly in violation of campaign finance laws.

I think the question is whether the secondary crime is federal or state.  The criticism I've seen is that if it's federal,  then the DOJ already declined to charge him.  However I don't know if he was president at the time of the decision.  I also don't know if NY has state campaign laws that apply to federal elections. 

He was. That DOJ memo about not charging a sitting POTUS needs to corrected by law, but of course that would require Congress to get its act together.

Ok so the defense by former DOJ officials like Andrew Mccarthy that the fed declined to charge didn't isn't a good counter. 

Halifax2TheMax

2021

Sure, POOTWH's not racist. At all.

Former president Donald Trump lashed out Friday at the judge in Manhattan assigned to his case, claiming in a social media post that Justice Juan M. Merchan “HATES ME” and that he had “railroaded” Allen Weisselberg, the longtime chief financial officer of the Trump Organization, in a separate case.

“The Judge ‘assigned’ to my Witch Hunt Case, a ‘Case’ that has NEVER BEEN CHARGED BEFORE, HATES ME,” Trump wrote in a post on Truth Social, his social media platform, in which he misspelled Merchan’s last name.

Without citing evidence, Trump claimed that Merchan, who presided over the grand jury that voted to indict the former president, was “handpicked” by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and other prosecutors.

Merchan was the judge who handled the trial of Weisselberg, who pleaded guilty to 15 felonies in a deal with prosecutors for his role in a decade-long tax fraud scheme.

Merchan sentenced Weisselberg to five months in jail but said he regretted not handing out a “much stiffer” sentence.

Trump has a long history of criticizing judges as biased, including some involved in cases of which he is a part.

In 2016, for example, Trump repeatedly attacked Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who oversaw a fraud case against Trump University. In tweets, Trump claimed that Curiel was being unfair to him because the judge is “Hispanic” and “Mexican” and because Trump was trying to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border.