The all-purpose heavy duty Climate Chaos thread (sprinkled with hope).
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By FABIANO MAISONNAVE and JORGE SAENZ30 mins agoCARAUARI, Brazil (AP) — Even in the most biodiverse rainforest of the world, the pirarucu, also known as arapaima, stands out.
First, there is its mammoth size: It can weigh up to 200 kilos (440 pounds), by far the largest of 2,300 known fish species in the Amazon. It is found primarily in floodplain lakes across the Amazon basin, including the region of Medio Jurua.
Second, the giant fish not so long ago nearly vanished from Jurua, as vessels swept the lakes with large nets. The illegal and unsustainable fishing left river and Indigenous communities struggling to catch their staple food. And it left pirarucu designated as threatened with extinction, unless trade in the fish is closely controlled by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora.
But now something remarkable has happened. The fish has come back to the lakes of Medio Jurua. The story of how involves people of different backgrounds cooperating on many levels — a vision of what's possible that veterans of the Amazon say they've seen nowhere else across the vast region.
Voice of Fabiano Maisonnave: Explaining pirarucu (AP Video/Jorge Saenz and Maisonnave)
Change began in the late 1990s. With the assistance of a Dutch Catholic priest, rubber tappers organized and led a campaign to persuade the federal government to create the Medio Jurua Extractive Reserve. They proposed that river communities could take from the forest and its lakes — up to a point — and within protected areas.
It worked. Now, local communities produce açai, vegetable oils and rubber, and they leave the forest standing. Most successful of all has been the management of pirarucu.
Riverine settler communities, organized into associations, also reached agreement with neighboring Deni Indigenous people, who have suffered in the past from invasions by rubber-tappers and fishermen. Now they are part of the managed fishing of pirarucu, which improved relations between Indigenous people and non-Indigenous.
Fishermen brothers Gibson, right, and Manuel Cunha Da Lima, front, raise a pirarucu fish from a lake in San Raimundo settlement, at Medio Jurua region, Amazonia State, Brazil, Monday, Sept. 5, 2022.
Fishermen brothers Gibson, right, and Manuel Cunha Da Lima raise a pirarucu fish from a lake in San Raimundo settlement, at Medio Jurua region, Amazonia State, Brazil, Monday, Sept. 5, 2022.Managing the comeback has required social organization, cooperation and complex logistics. Illegal fishing has been sharply reduced. Pirarucu are flourishing.
The virtuous cycle plays out in the region of Carauari, which stretches along 650 kilometers (404 miles) of the Jurua River and is home to 35,000 people.
To see how things could have gone, look no further than the neighboring Javari Valley, where British journalist Dom Phillips and Indigenous expert Bruno Pereira were murdered last June.
The backdrop of that tragedy is a decades-old dispute between Indigenous communities and former rubber tappers who were hired by local businessmen to do illegal fishing, targeting mostly the pirarucu. Two local fishermen confessed to the crimes.
Illegal fishing is rampant in Brazil. It's the second most frequent environmental crime on protected land, after logging, according to an academic study based on official data. Brazil´s conservation agency issued 1,160 infraction notices for illegal fishing — a quarter of all infractions — over a recent five-year period.
“Javari is a portrait of what Medio Jurua was like in the 1980s,” Manoel Cunha, the main leader of the local rubber tappers, told The Associated Press during a boat trip to Sao Raimundo, his home community and one of the ones that takes part in regulated fishing. “We managed to get rid of fishing companies and invading fishermen by monitoring and management. You have been on this river for days now, and you have not seen any fishing boats except the ones from our organizations. There is no more room for them here.”
Three pirarucu fish, captured by brothers Gibson, right, and Manuel Cunha Da Lima, front, lie at a floating warehouse in San Raimundo settlement, at Medio Jurua region, Amazonia State, Brazil, Monday, Sept. 5, 2022. (AP Photo/Jorge Saenz)Pirarucu fishing is done once a year, around September, the period of lowest water. Fishing quotas are possible due to another remarkable characteristic of the pirarucu: It is one of the few fish species in the world that surfaces to breathe. It does that with a big splash, flashing its red tail out of the water.
A local fisherman and a researcher in the nearby Mamirarua region developed a way to take advantage of this, and count the fish since they stay underwater for no more than 20 minutes. The government now recognizes this counting method.
The survey is done once a year by certified fishermen, after taking a course. By law, only 30% of the pirarucu in a certain area can be fished the following year.
This controlled fishing has led to a surge in its population in regions where it's employed. In Sao Raimundo region, there were 1,335 pirarucus in the nearby lakes in 2011, when the managed fishing began. Last year, there were 4,092 specimens, according to their records.
Women prepare turtle meat for lunch at San Raimundo settlement, in Carauari, Brazil, Monday, Sept. 5, 2022. They usually cook turtle meat according to traditional recipes. (AP Photo/Jorge Saenz)
Eliane Farias, carries pieces of a pirarucu fish in San Raimundo settlement, at Medio Jurua region, Amazonia State, Brazil, Monday, Sept. 5, 2022. (AP Photo/Jorge Saenz)In the Carauari region, the number of pirarucu spiked from 4,916, in 2011, to 46,839, ten years later.
An AP team accompanied the first of the seven days of fishing in Sao Raimundo. Picture a few dozen houses, with running water, connected by well-maintained wooden footbridges amid açai palm trees. Thirty-four families call it home. Most belong to Cunha´s extended family, whose ancestors arrived in the region from the impoverished and drought-ravaged Northeast during the rubber boom to work as tappers.
“Our pirarucu is so tasty, everybody that eats it falls in love with it and wants more," Rosilda da Cunha, a sister of Manoel who lives in Sao Raimundo, told the AP.
Pirarucu bring money into the community, she said. This year, the goal is to buy a solar panel system to replace the diesel-fueled generator. Another share of the money goes to the community members who participate in the fishing. Women's and men's salaries are equal.
To catch pirarucu, fishermen use special, stronger nets they weave themselves. The holes are large enough to allow smaller specimens to go through, as taking fish under five feet is prohibited.
When the fishers catch one, they haul in the net and club the fish in the head. Then they put it in their small boat. When it´s very heavy, two or three men are required to do the job.
The pirarucus are then taken from the lakes to a large boat by the Jurua River. There they are gutted, a task that is mostly done by women, and put on ice. All the production is bought by the Association of Rural Producers of Carauari, known as Asproc, the region´s umbrella organization, so the fishers are never at the mercy of middlemen.
Daughters of fishermen, Tatiana and Andresa, top, sit at their home in San Raimundo settlement in Carauari, Amazonia State, Brazil, Monday, Sept. 5, 2022. (AP Photo/Jorge Saenz)Founded by rubber tappers who wanted to liberate themselves from slave-like labor conditions, Asproc has grown to be one of the most important grassroots entities in the entire Amazon. It runs programs on everything from sanitation, to community markets to higher education, innovating along the way. It now sells pirarucu to Brazil´s main cities including Sao Paulo and Brasília, a complex endeavor that involves several days of transport by boat and road and usually takes more than two weeks.
Asproc´s success has attracted several partnerships. One is counterintuitive — the United States Forest Service, which supported the creation of a brand, the Gosto da Amazônia (Amazon Taste), that promotes the pirarucu nationwide, and the Agency for International Development (USAID), which helped to finance a warehouse for processing fish in Carauari city, where the pirarucu is cut, frozen and packaged.
Workers wash Pirarucu with clean fresh water, in Carauari, Brazil, Tuesday, Sept. 6, 2022. (AP Photo/Jorge Saenz)
A man separates leather from the body of a Pirarucu fish at industrial refrigeration factory of Asproc, Association of Rural Producers of Carauari, Amazonia, Brazil, Wednesday, Aug. 31, 2022. (AP Photo/Jorge Saenz)
Heads and leather of pirarucu are kept cold in Carauari, Amazonia, Brazil, Wednesday, Aug. 31, 2022. (AP Photo/Jorge Saenz)
Workers eviscerate a pirarucu in Carauari, Brazil, Tuesday, Sept. 6, 2022. (AP Photo/Jorge Saenz)“This project is unique as it requires a strong governance structure,” Ted Gehr, USAID mission director in Brazil, told the AP during his first visit to the Sao Raimundo community. “Everybody is in agreement that they may have to sacrifice and not be able to fish all of the pirarucu that are available but knowing that they’ll reproduce more, and that in the long run they will be more valuable."
The Medio Jurua region is blessed with remoteness. It has no access by road. So far it is free from the deforestation and fire that have been devastating elsewhere in the Amazon. But the smoke that has left the skies grayish in September is a reminder that the destruction is not far away. The challenge is to be a strong organization and economy to stave off future threats, says Cunha.
“Had we not organized ourselves through fishing management to protect our environments and take our fish, instead of others taking them from us, we could be in the same situation as our colleagues from Javari,” says Cunha, who is the head of the Medio Jurua Extractive Reserve, a position usually held by government officials. “Had they organized themselves earlier, they could have saved the lives of those two comrades.”
Fishermen look for pirarucu fishes at a lake in San Raimundo settlement, at Medio Jurua region, Amazonia State, Brazil, Monday, Sept. 5, 2022. AP Photo/Jorge Saenz)____
Associated Press climate and environmental coverage receives support from several private foundations. See more about AP’s climate initiative here. The AP is solely responsible for all content.
Post edited by mickeyrat on_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
ED DAVEYTodayLONDON (AP) — In the Putumayo region of the Colombian Amazon, Segundo Meneses' daily routine took him to the Chufiya river, its banks verdant and waters alive with catfish and piranha. On one morning seven years ago, he noticed a dark film lapping the shore. Where the river turned a bend, it turned to black. It was an oil slick that he says went on to sicken his young family and poison their cows and pigs.
The British law firm Leigh Day is now suing Amerisur, the oil company operating in the region, on behalf of 171 Putumayo farmers, including Meneses. That spill was not the only complication with this particular oil operation. Nearby Siona Indigenous people say they reject the oil pumping and will fight it. This region is also awash in coca production and former rebel groups dispute drug territory, sometimes disrupting the flow of oil. Then there are reports by United Nations rapporteurs and an interfaith non-profit group that say the oil company, Amerisur Resources PLC, may have worked with rebels to pressure the Siona and local farmers to cease their opposition in order to keep oil flowing.
Yet none of this seemed to deter an $900 million oil and gas firm based in Chile named GeoPark Ltd. from buying Amerisur two years ago. GeoPark successfully lined up banks to help it obtain the Putumayo oilfields, indicating that even with climate changes hitting wide areas of the globe, backing for the activities that cause it is still available. Demand for crude oil continues to rise, not fall, underscoring the lure for oil companies and banks to keep operating as they have for decades.
“If banks help finance a company like GeoPark, it seems there is nothing they will refuse to touch,” said Maaike Beenes, banks and climate lead at the non-profit BankTrack, an environmental advocacy group based in the Netherlands. This deal, she said, raises numerous red flags because of Amerisur's legacy, "from doing business in a conflict zone to fossil fuel expansion in sensitive ecosystems of the Amazon, to a history of violations of Indigenous peoples’ rights.”
The way GeoPark bought all of British-based Amerisur in January 2020, absorbing the company and keeping its brand, is a window into how some banks support fossil fuel projects even when they appear to go against their own policies.
Citibank and Itaú Unibanco offered GeoPark a bridge loan. The company then looked to banks for help issuing $350 million worth of bonds to pay for the purchase, Bloomberg data and public statements show. Brazilian Itaú Unibanco and Citibank served as “bookrunners” on the bonds, and the Bank of New York Mellon agreed to facilitate payments on them. Bookrunners advertise bonds, coordinate orders and generally use their reputation to lend confidence on bond offers.
The deal enabled GeoPark to obtain Amerisur's main asset: 11 oilfields strung across the highly biodiverse Putumayo basin. They now comprise almost a third of GeoPark's hydrocarbon fields, the rest dotted across Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, Chile and Peru.
The next year, in 2021, U.S. and European financial institutions helped GeoPark restructure its debt, making more money available to the company. Bank of America, Credit Suisse and JPMorgan advised on issuing another $150 million in bonds, GeoPark press releases show.
Even being the client of such important banks lent GeoPark credibility, said former bond trader Jo Richardson of the Anthropocene Fixed Income Institute, who analyzed data and documents from the deal.
A SULLIED RIVER
In a filing with the British High Court, Segundo Meneses called the Chufiya river “an important source of food for my family and the whole community.”
But the river was changed by events that day. According to court documents, an armed group attacked five Amerisur oil tanker trucks and forced the drivers to empty their loads of crude oil into a wetland, where it flowed into the Agua Negra tributary, and from there into the Chufiya and beyond.
For the Colombian oil industry, rebel attacks on oil infrastructure have been a plague for decades. But the farmers argue this attack was foreseeable, given ongoing conflict in the area. For a long time afterwards, the cassava and plantain farmers say, their water was contaminated.
Fishing became impossible, said Meneses, the edible fish gone.
“I caught a 15-kilo fish (33 lbs.) and it tasted like oil, and I couldn’t eat it,” he said in an affidavit.
In the dry season, the family had no choice but to drink from and wash in the river, which gave them diarrhea, rashes and stomach aches, he said.
“For us water is life,” Meneses continued. “Maybe I will die tomorrow but my children will still live here and I do not want them to live in an area with such polluted water.”
GeoPark’s spokesperson said the company has caused no contamination, maintains the highest standards to protect the environment, and is committed to compensation for any negative impacts. Amerisur, now Amerisur Resources Ltd, cleaned up the spilled oil, the spokesperson said, and would defend itself in the courts. Regarding liability for past acts, she said, they are “questions of law and fact on a case-by-case basis.”
OIL IN A CONFLICT ZONE
For critics, the Amerisur assets should never have found a buyer, or financing. There were numerous red flags for banks considering helping with this oil deal, they say. Months before the first bond issuance, the Siona of the Buenavista reservation told GeoPark in a public statement they would not allow oil production or “extractive operations in our territory.” They said Amerisur had already tried to take their natural resources through “illegal and rigged action.” The tribe said it would protect its territory from “grave risks due to toxic wastes,” and “impacts on our spiritual practices.”
Moira Birss, director for climate and finance at the non-profit advocacy group Amazon Watch said GeoPark is "running enormous political, legal, reputational, climate, and social risks.”
Colombia’s Constitutional Court recognizes the Siona as at risk of extermination. Also before the bond deal, a 2019 ruling found Amerisur left explosives on Siona land during seismic studies. The company was ordered to cease this activity. In a third, ongoing case, the Buenavista Siona, who say their lands are overlapped by two GeoPark oilfields, are seeking 52,000 hectares (128,000 acres) of disputed territory there to be added to their reservation.
GeoPark denied in an email it is working in the Siona reservation or the additional land sought by them. Relationships with Indigenous people are based on “dialogue, respect and building trust,” the company said. The company says in 2021 it requested Colombia to cancel the concession to the oilfield the Siona say overlaps their land, and is waiting for this to happen.
PARAMILITARIES IN THE AREA
The Putumayo region is also a hotbed of coca cultivation and cocaine trafficking. Splinter groups of former FARC rebels fight each other for control of the trade. One faction, the Border Command, is listed with the U.S. Treasury Department as a terrorist organization. In December 2020, before the second bond deal, a respected Colombian human rights NGO's report made a strong claim. The Interfaith Justice and Peace Commission alleged the Border Command was collaborating with Amerisur to protect its oil operations.
Displaced farmers had told the commission they were ordered by the rebels not to oppose Amerisur’s exploration, one rebel reportedly saying, “We have negotiated with the company and will assure the operation.”
Five United Nations special rapporteurs for human rights also wrote to the chief of the U.N. Development Programme, Achim Steiner, warning: “Alleged links exist between the company (Amerisur) and the paramilitaries present in the area, which have been denounced by the Siona Peoples before the Constitutional Court.”
The U.N. rapporteurs wrote: “Economic actors have allied with irregular armed actors to generate, within the Indigenous communities, acts of violence that ... displace the Indigenous people from their ancestral territories, thus clearing the way for ... these projects.”
Colombian investigative news outlet Cuestión Pública, working with the news organization Mongabay, said two independent sources said paramilitaries had forced a farming community to attend meetings where they were ordered not to obstruct Amerisur and should accept any offers it makes. Two other independent sources confirmed an alliance between Amerisur and the rebel group, their report said.
And the Ombudsman’s Office of Colombia, the country's human rights agency, published a risk alert on its website saying community complaints have been received about pressure exerted by “illegal armed actors” to allow oil extraction. Amerisur was not named in that alert. But the report did note Amerisur is the one of the two largest operators in the area of Putumayo.
GeoPark rejected any allegation of collaboration with Border Command as “100% false.”
“GeoPark has never had any relationship with illegal armed groups and demands the same of its employees and the entire supply chain,” a spokesperson said.
BANK SUPPORT
The backing by the banks buoyed GeoPark. In April 2021, James F. Park, then CEO, said in a press release the deal “demonstrates the support and credibility we have earned in international capital markets.” This puts the company in a “stronger, more flexible, less risky and less costly position,” he said.
Citibank, Itaú Unibanco, and the Bank of New York Mellon all said environmental issues were of great importance to them. BNY Mellon said it provided no direct financing or loans. Citibank and Itaú also emphasized they seriously consider social risks and conduct due diligence. Citi said it is strengthening these policies. JPMorgan said it reviews all sensitive deals with clients.
Bank of America and Credit Suisse declined to comment.
Meanwhile, in the rainforest, oil pumping continues. Meneses and his fellow farmers hope for a judgement before Christmas; British courts have ordered GeoPark to set aside 3.2 million pounds (U.S. $3.8 million) to pay if the farmers win.
______
Associated Press climate and environmental coverage receives support from several private foundations. See more about AP’s climate initiative here. The AP is solely responsible for all content.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…0 -
Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talkScio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.0 -
No. Both will lead to disaster. That's like asking would you rather lose an eye or a hand. Neither for me please.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.static111 said:
No. Both will lead to disaster. That's like asking would you rather lose an eye or a hand. Neither for me please.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.Yeah, sorry, Lerx but I have to go with static111: neither choice. We don't have time to fool around with phony rhetoric and measures that are mere facades that continue to line the pockets of corporate heads and do nowhere near enough to slow climate change. COP is like saying, "OK, your house is flooded up to the rafters so we're going to lower the water a couple of inches... [and get rich while doing it]."I know that sounds like hyperbole, or what some would call "radical" talk, or doomsday negativity, but it's not. It's just what is. The evidence is plain to see and has been mounting for years... no, decades. Scientists have been talking about global warming since the 70's, when I first heard about it. We can't afford to inch along for another fifty years."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.static111 said:
No. Both will lead to disaster. That's like asking would you rather lose an eye or a hand. Neither for me please.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.Yeah, sorry, Lerx but I have to go with static111: neither choice. We don't have time to fool around with phony rhetoric and measures that are mere facades that continue to line the pockets of corporate heads and do nowhere near enough to slow climate change. COP is like saying, "OK, your house is flooded up to the rafters so we're going to lower the water a couple of inches... [and get rich while doing it]."I know that sounds like hyperbole, or what some would call "radical" talk, or doomsday negativity, but it's not. It's just what is. The evidence is plain to see and has been mounting for years... no, decades. Scientists have been talking about global warming since the 70's, when I first heard about it. We can't afford to inch along for another fifty years.Ok bri and static, where are we in global emissions vs 15 years ago? We need allies to continue the fight, especially if Americans are only interested in voting for cheap gas and drill baby drill, as they are expected to do tomorrow. We need corporate America, especially corporations headquartered in cities, with their left leaning employees, to win this fight. Considering how vain the typical voter is, weighted by rural power the constitution allows, not sure what other allies the climate fight has.0 -
Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.static111 said:
No. Both will lead to disaster. That's like asking would you rather lose an eye or a hand. Neither for me please.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.Yeah, sorry, Lerx but I have to go with static111: neither choice. We don't have time to fool around with phony rhetoric and measures that are mere facades that continue to line the pockets of corporate heads and do nowhere near enough to slow climate change. COP is like saying, "OK, your house is flooded up to the rafters so we're going to lower the water a couple of inches... [and get rich while doing it]."I know that sounds like hyperbole, or what some would call "radical" talk, or doomsday negativity, but it's not. It's just what is. The evidence is plain to see and has been mounting for years... no, decades. Scientists have been talking about global warming since the 70's, when I first heard about it. We can't afford to inch along for another fifty years.Ok bri and static, where are we in global emissions vs 15 years ago? We need allies to continue the fight, especially if Americans are only interested in voting for cheap gas and drill baby drill, as they are expected to do tomorrow. We need corporate America, especially corporations headquartered in cities, with their left leaning employees, to win this fight. Considering how vain the typical voter is, weighted by rural power the constitution allows, not sure what other allies the climate fight has.We are currently emitting about 4 billion tons of emissions per year more now than we were 15 years ago. Yes, we need allies in order to lower that. I don't see COP as being strong enough allies. I'll take what we can get, but it's just not enough.In any case, what we really need right now are as many democrats as possible to get out and vote against MAGA republicans. Democrats are more likely to help alleviate climate change issues.
But honestly, I still don't see that as being enough."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
This take assumes some benevolence on the part of the corporation, which would be nice since they are made up of actual people. Unfortunately actual people don't have the strength to affect the flow of a corporations business without a whole lot of organization and things like walking out and boycotting and striking. But like the independents that are going to vote for gas prices the people employed by corps have to pay the bills and are not likely to put too much pressure on the company that cuts their checks.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.static111 said:
No. Both will lead to disaster. That's like asking would you rather lose an eye or a hand. Neither for me please.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.Yeah, sorry, Lerx but I have to go with static111: neither choice. We don't have time to fool around with phony rhetoric and measures that are mere facades that continue to line the pockets of corporate heads and do nowhere near enough to slow climate change. COP is like saying, "OK, your house is flooded up to the rafters so we're going to lower the water a couple of inches... [and get rich while doing it]."I know that sounds like hyperbole, or what some would call "radical" talk, or doomsday negativity, but it's not. It's just what is. The evidence is plain to see and has been mounting for years... no, decades. Scientists have been talking about global warming since the 70's, when I first heard about it. We can't afford to inch along for another fifty years.Ok bri and static, where are we in global emissions vs 15 years ago? We need allies to continue the fight, especially if Americans are only interested in voting for cheap gas and drill baby drill, as they are expected to do tomorrow. We need corporate America, especially corporations headquartered in cities, with their left leaning employees, to win this fight. Considering how vain the typical voter is, weighted by rural power the constitution allows, not sure what other allies the climate fight has.
Where I think the snag is here is the purpose of the corp to provide dividends to shareholders above all else. Because the very successful people that make big decisions are so insulated from the downstream effects they have no reason to alter their course regardless of the dominant political party or societal values of the day, as long as the profits keep rolling in. If anything is gonna get done at a corporate level this means share values go down because of citizen unrest and the corporation then remedies this by appealing to the needs of the citizens so they can become profitable again for the shareholders. As long as people keep buying single use plastic bottles of Coke, coke isn't gonna do anything but talk, as long as people continue buying packages from amazon as cheap as possible and shipping them back and forth across the globe, nothing is going to get done but empty talk as long as profits don't get effected.
We the people as ridiculous as that cliche is beginning to sound have to stop making it financially profitable for these companies to continue on the current course by divesting and boycotting. As long as we are more concerned with our 401k value and getting things as cheaply as possible right now than the environment and moving to a cleaner greener future, it is likely that corps do as little as possible. It sucks but that is the way I see it and it looks like Bri sees it that way too.
When corporations purposefully start taking a hit to their bottom line by putting the earth first and putting shareholders second I will gladly change my tune.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
static111 said:
This take assumes some benevolence on the part of the corporation, which would be nice since they are made up of actual people. Unfortunately actual people don't have the strength to affect the flow of a corporations business without a whole lot of organization and things like walking out and boycotting and striking. But like the independents that are going to vote for gas prices the people employed by corps have to pay the bills and are not likely to put too much pressure on the company that cuts their checks.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.static111 said:
No. Both will lead to disaster. That's like asking would you rather lose an eye or a hand. Neither for me please.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.Yeah, sorry, Lerx but I have to go with static111: neither choice. We don't have time to fool around with phony rhetoric and measures that are mere facades that continue to line the pockets of corporate heads and do nowhere near enough to slow climate change. COP is like saying, "OK, your house is flooded up to the rafters so we're going to lower the water a couple of inches... [and get rich while doing it]."I know that sounds like hyperbole, or what some would call "radical" talk, or doomsday negativity, but it's not. It's just what is. The evidence is plain to see and has been mounting for years... no, decades. Scientists have been talking about global warming since the 70's, when I first heard about it. We can't afford to inch along for another fifty years.Ok bri and static, where are we in global emissions vs 15 years ago? We need allies to continue the fight, especially if Americans are only interested in voting for cheap gas and drill baby drill, as they are expected to do tomorrow. We need corporate America, especially corporations headquartered in cities, with their left leaning employees, to win this fight. Considering how vain the typical voter is, weighted by rural power the constitution allows, not sure what other allies the climate fight has.
Where I think the snag is here is the purpose of the corp to provide dividends to shareholders above all else. Because the very successful people that make big decisions are so insulated from the downstream effects they have no reason to alter their course regardless of the dominant political party or societal values of the day, as long as the profits keep rolling in. If anything is gonna get done at a corporate level this means share values go down because of citizen unrest and the corporation then remedies this by appealing to the needs of the citizens so they can become profitable again for the shareholders. As long as people keep buying single use plastic bottles of Coke, coke isn't gonna do anything but talk, as long as people continue buying packages from amazon as cheap as possible and shipping them back and forth across the globe, nothing is going to get done but empty talk as long as profits don't get effected.
We the people as ridiculous as that cliche is beginning to sound have to stop making it financially profitable for these companies to continue on the current course by divesting and boycotting. As long as we are more concerned with our 401k value and getting things as cheaply as possible right now than the environment and moving to a cleaner greener future, it is likely that corps do as little as possible. It sucks but that is the way I see it and it looks like Bri sees it that way too.
When corporations purposefully start taking a hit to their bottom line by putting the earth first and putting shareholders second I will gladly change my tune.Good stuff here.And Lerxst, do know we are working toward the same goal. Just different ways of getting there. I just don't see going the slow route via corporate or political action as it stands as being enough effort soon enough. It's literally a race against time for us to act strongly and expeditiously enough to make a viable difference."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I think that's great in theory, but would likely be a logistical nightmare, don't you think (I don't know, I've never been involved in touring organizing)brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:The problem with renewables is scaling up to macro supply levels and transmission logistics.
Using the US electric transmission industry as an example, there is abundent transmission capacity from eastern Canada which needs to get to the northeast US, because there is abundent clean supply to the north and usage to the south. This is the current logistical setup
The challenge for wind and solar is its anticipated to be abundant in the central US, but is needed along the coasts where population is largest. The transmission to move the energy from production regions to usage just does not currently exist in the capacity needed
Sure we'd love for renewables to solve the Russia gas problem, but building out an entirely new infrastructure, with tech that barely exists today, is a time consuming logistics challenge. The type thats measured more in a decade or so.
..
Its like when PJ loves to play the small towns. They overwhelm existing infrastructure to handle all the big metropolitan fans traveling out to the small towns to stay at hotels.
For example, I was almost stranded in Ottawa due to a hotel error, in the midst of a thousand mile round trip journey. Driving 500 miles with no sleep? Not an issue in the PJ planning world when they set up a tour
Most days getting a hotel would be no big deal in Ottawa. When PJ is in town on a Saturday night, there were no rooms available from Ottawa to Kingston almost to Montreal.
A good analogy for the EU heating problems
If Pearl Jam wants to play small towns, why not play a smaller venue with ticket availability to accommodate the size of the town. Also make tickets available locally first. That would be the appropriate and responsible thing to do, right? Same hold true for our society in general. If we don't live sustainably, we run into problems. Simple logic.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:
I think that's great in theory, but would likely be a logistical nightmare, don't you think (I don't know, I've never been involved in touring organizing)brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:The problem with renewables is scaling up to macro supply levels and transmission logistics.
Using the US electric transmission industry as an example, there is abundent transmission capacity from eastern Canada which needs to get to the northeast US, because there is abundent clean supply to the north and usage to the south. This is the current logistical setup
The challenge for wind and solar is its anticipated to be abundant in the central US, but is needed along the coasts where population is largest. The transmission to move the energy from production regions to usage just does not currently exist in the capacity needed
Sure we'd love for renewables to solve the Russia gas problem, but building out an entirely new infrastructure, with tech that barely exists today, is a time consuming logistics challenge. The type thats measured more in a decade or so.
..
Its like when PJ loves to play the small towns. They overwhelm existing infrastructure to handle all the big metropolitan fans traveling out to the small towns to stay at hotels.
For example, I was almost stranded in Ottawa due to a hotel error, in the midst of a thousand mile round trip journey. Driving 500 miles with no sleep? Not an issue in the PJ planning world when they set up a tour
Most days getting a hotel would be no big deal in Ottawa. When PJ is in town on a Saturday night, there were no rooms available from Ottawa to Kingston almost to Montreal.
A good analogy for the EU heating problems
If Pearl Jam wants to play small towns, why not play a smaller venue with ticket availability to accommodate the size of the town. Also make tickets available locally first. That would be the appropriate and responsible thing to do, right? Same hold true for our society in general. If we don't live sustainably, we run into problems. Simple logic."If they can send a man to the moon..."
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.static111 said:
No. Both will lead to disaster. That's like asking would you rather lose an eye or a hand. Neither for me please.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.Yeah, sorry, Lerx but I have to go with static111: neither choice. We don't have time to fool around with phony rhetoric and measures that are mere facades that continue to line the pockets of corporate heads and do nowhere near enough to slow climate change. COP is like saying, "OK, your house is flooded up to the rafters so we're going to lower the water a couple of inches... [and get rich while doing it]."I know that sounds like hyperbole, or what some would call "radical" talk, or doomsday negativity, but it's not. It's just what is. The evidence is plain to see and has been mounting for years... no, decades. Scientists have been talking about global warming since the 70's, when I first heard about it. We can't afford to inch along for another fifty years.Ok bri and static, where are we in global emissions vs 15 years ago? We need allies to continue the fight, especially if Americans are only interested in voting for cheap gas and drill baby drill, as they are expected to do tomorrow. We need corporate America, especially corporations headquartered in cities, with their left leaning employees, to win this fight. Considering how vain the typical voter is, weighted by rural power the constitution allows, not sure what other allies the climate fight has.We are currently emitting about 4 billion tons of emissions per year more now than we were 15 years ago. Yes, we need allies in order to lower that. I don't see COP as being strong enough allies. I'll take what we can get, but it's just not enough.In any case, what we really need right now are as many democrats as possible to get out and vote against MAGA republicans. Democrats are more likely to help alleviate climate change issues.
But honestly, I still don't see that as being enough.
I was referring to US emissions, which are down 15% since 2005. I understand global is more important, however looking at how the US was able to cut emissions gives me some hope.
What doesn't is how our election day is expected to go. Americans are about to give the party of coal and more drilling control of US spending
In comparison, our big blue city corps may be a better partner than the American voter in this fight.
0 -
Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.static111 said:
No. Both will lead to disaster. That's like asking would you rather lose an eye or a hand. Neither for me please.Lerxst1992 said:brianlux said:static111 said:
It's just as good of a read the second time. All these corporate self serving bullshit talks with empty pledges and broken promises. I don't know how people can trust any of it.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Sprinkles with hope? Independents are literally voting for cheap gas. Can’t wait to see how Speaker McCarthy helps the climate challenges
gift article…The whole COP27 thing is a farce.I believe I've already posted this, but in case not, here it is:COP OUT 27Another (yawn) Climate Change Conference next month.This time however it's going to be different.How can it go wrong with Coca-Cola as an official sponsor?I mean why not have one of the planet's top polluters as a sponsor?This company produces 200,000 plastic bottles per minute amounting to some 3 million tons of plastic every year.The company sells over 470 billion plastic bottles a year.The sugary poison will be flowing freely at the conference for all those thirsty "environmentalists" once again engaged in the fruitless, endless, litany of false hopes and promises that these COP conferences spew out.I attended COP 21 back in 2015 in Paris where the fishing industry was sponsoring the Ocean forum where I spoke and where anything I had to say was most definitely not welcome.Who next? Monsanto, Shell, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Ford?This reminds me of the 1992 U.N. Conference on the Environment and Development in Brazil where Maurice Strong of Petro-Canada was an organizer and one of the sponsors was MacDonalds. Every single promise made at that meeting never materialized.These COP meetings have achieved absolutely nothing but false promises and I speak as someone who was there in Stockholm at the very first U.N. Environmental Conference where young people were urged to get involved, but not too much involved. You can hold a sign that says, "Save the Whales" but don't go out to sea to actually save the whales.The hurricanes keep getting stronger, the flood waters keep getting higher, the reservoirs keep getting lower, the forest fires keep getting more intense, biodiversity continues to diminish, human populations continue to rise as more and climate migrants struggle to escape the places they were born.And the meetings continue, and more meetings and more meetings, more talks, more promises, more pledges, more photo ops for world leaders and more marketing of products that contribute to climate chaos.Last year Boris Johnson said it was just one minute to midnight on the climate change doomsday clock. Maybe they will make progress and announce that it is now 30 seconds to midnight.After the speech, Johnson did absolutely nothing to address the threat, nor did any other leader. Putin started a war, arms manufacturing increased fracking increased, lithium mining increased, the oil pumps kept pumping, the coal plants kept spewing and an American Senate candidate said the problem was good American air was drifting to China and dirty Chinese air was moving to America and a former President said windmills cause cancer.We are trying to find real solutions in a swamp of stupidity where only money talks.And the money will continue to talk, next year and the year after next year. Cop 27 next month on to COP 28, 29, ..... to COP 50. Corporations will be competing to be the official sponsor.An industry has been created employing lobbyists, delegates, educators. publicists, advertisers, and marketeers all to promote solutions that are never realized. You have to marvel at the sheer audacity of someone successfully promoting Coke-Cola as an official sponsor for COP 27The only thing they can agree on is that Extinction Rebellion is too extreme and we need to be more upbeat about the future because technology will save the day or we can all move to Mars.On the bright side, delegates can visit the pyramids where they can sit in the desert sand contemplating the death of the Nile with a nice complimentary cold plastic bottle of Coca-Cola in hand.And the money will continue to talk
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend. The whole COP this is a farce propagated by bullshit artists who, unfortunately, are quite adept at fooling massive numbers of people.Isn’t cop27 better than what is occurring in the USA tomorrow, independents voting for republicans to control America’s wallet? The rest of the world is at least trying to come up with something while Americans are voting Republican, because independents vote mostly based on how cheap gas costs to fill up the tank
And we can curse out corporations for all their ills, but we are not getting there without their help. Most major companies, including coke, are looking to cut emissions 25 to50 percent in the next decade or two - without their investment (and pressure from within - their employees) Americans will continue to elect republicans who will push for more coal, by far the biggest pollution problem, because alternatives to coal currently exist. Unlike musk and his snake oil vehicles. And of course more drill baby drill. Can’t wait for America’s tomorrow.
My reply is why Dems lose a lot of elections, a short attack is much easier to communicate than a nuanced message.Yeah, sorry, Lerx but I have to go with static111: neither choice. We don't have time to fool around with phony rhetoric and measures that are mere facades that continue to line the pockets of corporate heads and do nowhere near enough to slow climate change. COP is like saying, "OK, your house is flooded up to the rafters so we're going to lower the water a couple of inches... [and get rich while doing it]."I know that sounds like hyperbole, or what some would call "radical" talk, or doomsday negativity, but it's not. It's just what is. The evidence is plain to see and has been mounting for years... no, decades. Scientists have been talking about global warming since the 70's, when I first heard about it. We can't afford to inch along for another fifty years.Ok bri and static, where are we in global emissions vs 15 years ago? We need allies to continue the fight, especially if Americans are only interested in voting for cheap gas and drill baby drill, as they are expected to do tomorrow. We need corporate America, especially corporations headquartered in cities, with their left leaning employees, to win this fight. Considering how vain the typical voter is, weighted by rural power the constitution allows, not sure what other allies the climate fight has.We are currently emitting about 4 billion tons of emissions per year more now than we were 15 years ago. Yes, we need allies in order to lower that. I don't see COP as being strong enough allies. I'll take what we can get, but it's just not enough.In any case, what we really need right now are as many democrats as possible to get out and vote against MAGA republicans. Democrats are more likely to help alleviate climate change issues.
But honestly, I still don't see that as being enough.
I was referring to US emissions, which are down 15% since 2005. I understand global is more important, however looking at how the US was able to cut emissions gives me some hope.
What doesn't is how our election day is expected to go. Americans are about to give the party of coal and more drilling control of US spending
In comparison, our big blue city corps may be a better partner than the American voter in this fight.
Yeah, I've been dreading this day but we'll see how it shakes out. Hoping for miracles.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Volvo announces its FIRST electric vehicle, ok makes sense, but also announces it will ONLY produce EVs in 8 years. For investors, what sense does this make?8 years? Their ENTIRE FLEET? 40% of global electricity is coal sourced, (and growing!!), which is by far the dirtiest of the dirty fossil fuels, among a litany of problems EVs present including toxic raw materials and safe disposal.
Another example of misplaced priorities (here comes SC)…. World would be better off if companies invested in JVs with developing nations energy infrastructure, to get them away from coal and towards renewable generation. Get in on the ground floor and help the world for real. Biden is right yesterday at cop27, the American taxpayer is not going to finance this, our best hope is for companies to invest wisely
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/volvo-reveals-new-80000-electric-suv-with-luminar-lidar.html
0 -
Lerxst1992 said:Volvo announces its FIRST electric vehicle, ok makes sense, but also announces it will ONLY produce EVs in 8 years. For investors, what sense does this make?8 years? Their ENTIRE FLEET? 40% of global electricity is coal sourced, (and growing!!), which is by far the dirtiest of the dirty fossil fuels, among a litany of problems EVs present including toxic raw materials and safe disposal.
Another example of misplaced priorities (here comes SC)…. World would be better off if companies invested in JVs with developing nations energy infrastructure, to get them away from coal and towards renewable generation. Get in on the ground floor and help the world for real. Biden is right yesterday at cop27, the American taxpayer is not going to finance this, our best hope is for companies to invest wisely
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/volvo-reveals-new-80000-electric-suv-with-luminar-lidar.htmlWhat is a "JV"?You guys and your acronyms!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Joint Venturebrianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:Volvo announces its FIRST electric vehicle, ok makes sense, but also announces it will ONLY produce EVs in 8 years. For investors, what sense does this make?8 years? Their ENTIRE FLEET? 40% of global electricity is coal sourced, (and growing!!), which is by far the dirtiest of the dirty fossil fuels, among a litany of problems EVs present including toxic raw materials and safe disposal.
Another example of misplaced priorities (here comes SC)…. World would be better off if companies invested in JVs with developing nations energy infrastructure, to get them away from coal and towards renewable generation. Get in on the ground floor and help the world for real. Biden is right yesterday at cop27, the American taxpayer is not going to finance this, our best hope is for companies to invest wisely
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/volvo-reveals-new-80000-electric-suv-with-luminar-lidar.htmlWhat is a "JV"?You guys and your acronyms!0
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- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.1K Flea Market
- 39.1K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.7K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help