Is there any point any more?

brianlux · September 2022

This is a question I have been asking myself lately. I have tried to keep up with current events for decades I've tried to do my little part to make a difference by supporting environmental organizations that I studied carefully and gave consideration based on their efficient and effective use of funds before donating to them. I've written letters, made calls, attended city, county, and state level governmental meetings, spoken up for what I believe, voted, even organized a gathering to promote global warming awareness, and attended rallies.

And now, after several decades of doing my little part, I ask myself, "Was it worth it?"

I have used a quote paraphrased from something Vaclav Havel said to continue to motivate myself to keep on advocating for the environmental ans social issues that I believe in. That quote is, "Hope is not the conviction that things will turn out well. Hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out."

Sounds great, but then I look at where things are going: The environment is heading toward (or more likely already at a point of) a point no return leading to a long term collapse that will probably take centuries if not millennia to restore itself to a natural balance. Democracy is all but dead. Racism, sexism, homophobia are still a huge issue (especially considering the advances that began 50 plus years ago, this should no longer be a thing). Resources created each year by the planet are consumed in 6 months time. The oceans are dying and one of it's greatest and strongest defenders, Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has hijacked by a wealthy developer/ recreational fishing outfit owner.

So I began to think today, if "Hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out", could it be that what makes sense is to stop giving a shit and enjoy what's left of my life. Have all the many hours and many dollars been wasted effort and assets? This does not mean that I would consider living a wasteful life or stop recycling or buy a brodozer and burn as much gas as possible or live any differently than I do now. But I ask myself, if all of this has made little or no difference, is it worth it? If those of us who care are a minority up against a population that continues to over-reproduce and over-consume, is there any sense to caring any more?

Right now, I don't know. I just don't. Is there hope for things to get better, or is it better just to not give a damn? I really like to know. And no answer here will offend me. I just want the truth.

lastexitlondon · September 2022

People like us cannot stop giving a damn. Even if we try.
Born to care. Its depressing but those who know, know. Those who don't care are a different breed

mickeyrat · September 2022

do you feel the things you've chosen to do up to this point were right for you to do? regardless of outcome, whether you think it made a difference in the grand scheme, was it right for you to do?

hedonist · September 2022

I think it’s similar to ethics or your personal life integrity — doing the right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Call it hope, call it morals, same thing to me.

As for truth, that’s subjective. I can’t tell you what yours is anymore than you can tell me mine.

If you regret it, then stop wondering and just…stop. If not, then keep it up if your instinct tells you it’s the right thing to do.

Too bad life isn’t all neat and clear. But, it ain’t. I’m thankful for that.

jwhjr17 · September 2022

I just live my life and don't worry about things outside of my control. I help when and where I can, but don't let what's going on in the world as a whole run my thoughts from day to day.

Cropduster-80 · September 2022

To me there is no point. It’s too late

If not for me but for my kids I am absolutely an environmental prepper. That’s all you can do in my view at this point.

at some point you have to shift from trying to change other peoples behaviour and just focus on making sure you are taken care of. Sooner or later it’s going to be everyone for themselves and then it’s too late to start getting ready.

stuckinline · September 2022

brianlux said:

This is a question I have been asking myself lately. I have tried to keep up with current events for decades I've tried to do my little part to make a difference by supporting environmental organizations that I studied carefully and gave consideration based on their efficient and effective use of funds before donating to them. I've written letters, made calls, attended city, county, and state level governmental meetings, spoken up for what I believe, voted, even organized a gathering to promote global warming awareness, and attended rallies.

And now, after several decades of doing my little part, I ask myself, "Was it worth it?"

I have used a quote paraphrased from something Vaclav Havel said to continue to motivate myself to keep on advocating for the environmental ans social issues that I believe in. That quote is, "Hope is not the conviction that things will turn out well. Hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out."

Sounds great, but then I look at where things are going: The environment is heading toward (or more likely already at a point of) a point no return leading to a long term collapse that will probably take centuries if not millennia to restore itself to a natural balance. Democracy is all but dead. Racism, sexism, homophobia are still a huge issue (especially considering the advances that began 50 plus years ago, this should no longer be a thing). Resources created each year by the planet are consumed in 6 months time. The oceans are dying and one of it's greatest and strongest defenders, Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has hijacked by a wealthy developer/ recreational fishing outfit owner.

So I began to think today, if "Hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out", could it be that what makes sense is to stop giving a shit and enjoy what's left of my life. Have all the many hours and many dollars been wasted effort and assets? This does not mean that I would consider living a wasteful life or stop recycling or buy a brodozer and burn as much gas as possible or live any differently than I do now. But I ask myself, if all of this has made little or no difference, is it worth it? If those of us who care are a minority up against a population that continues to over-reproduce and over-consume, is there any sense to caring any more?

Right now, I don't know. I just don't. Is there hope for things to get better, or is it better just to not give a damn? I really like to know. And no answer here will offend me. I just want the truth.

Brian, I totally understand your questions, but I don't think any of us have the answers.
Yes, it was worth it, you never know who you inspired along your journey. Here is a quote I found on the internet:
"You never know how much the ripples of your actions affect others. One small action, which may seem like nothing to you, could be life-changing to someone else. Keep this in mind as you travel your path, and spread as much love and kindness as you possibly can."

Lerxst1992 · September 2022

If good people with good intentions stop doing good things...

What is left?

brianlux · September 2022

mickeyrat said:

do you feel the things you've chosen to do up to this point were right for you to do? regardless of outcome, whether you think it made a difference in the grand scheme, was it right for you to do?

Yes, I do believe the things I did were right, but I didn't do them for myself. What I have done in terms of environmentalism has been for the planet and what I've done to support social issues has been for the oppressed. For me, I focus on family, friends, and pets, and do music and books.

hedonist said:

I think it’s similar to ethics or your personal life integrity — doing the right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Call it hope, call it morals, same thing to me.

As for truth, that’s subjective. I can’t tell you what yours is anymore than you can tell me mine.

If you regret it, then stop wondering and just…stop. If not, then keep it up if your instinct tells you it’s the right thing to do.

Too bad life isn’t all neat and clear. But, it ain’t. I’m thankful for that.

Sound and wise thinking there, Hedonist.

jwhjr17 said:

I just live my life and don't worry about things outside of my control. I help when and where I can, but don't let what's going on in the world as a whole run my thoughts from day to day.

Probably a smart way to live. In some ways I wish I had never cared, but I always have. It's just how I'm wired.

Cropduster-80 said:

To me there is no point. It’s too late

If not for me but for my kids I am absolutely an environmental prepper. That’s all you can do in my view at this point.

at some point you have to shift from trying to change other peoples behaviour and just focus on making sure you are taken care of. Sooner or later it’s going to be everyone for themselves and then it’s too late to start getting ready.

We are preppers to the point of being prepared for short term (maybe up to a month long) crises. A major breakdown in society would likely result in my and my wife's death (she agrees).

stuckinline said:

brianlux said:

This is a question I have been asking myself lately. I have tried to keep up with current events for decades I've tried to do my little part to make a difference by supporting environmental organizations that I studied carefully and gave consideration based on their efficient and effective use of funds before donating to them. I've written letters, made calls, attended city, county, and state level governmental meetings, spoken up for what I believe, voted, even organized a gathering to promote global warming awareness, and attended rallies.

And now, after several decades of doing my little part, I ask myself, "Was it worth it?"

I have used a quote paraphrased from something Vaclav Havel said to continue to motivate myself to keep on advocating for the environmental ans social issues that I believe in. That quote is, "Hope is not the conviction that things will turn out well. Hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out."

Sounds great, but then I look at where things are going: The environment is heading toward (or more likely already at a point of) a point no return leading to a long term collapse that will probably take centuries if not millennia to restore itself to a natural balance. Democracy is all but dead. Racism, sexism, homophobia are still a huge issue (especially considering the advances that began 50 plus years ago, this should no longer be a thing). Resources created each year by the planet are consumed in 6 months time. The oceans are dying and one of it's greatest and strongest defenders, Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has hijacked by a wealthy developer/ recreational fishing outfit owner.

So I began to think today, if "Hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out", could it be that what makes sense is to stop giving a shit and enjoy what's left of my life. Have all the many hours and many dollars been wasted effort and assets? This does not mean that I would consider living a wasteful life or stop recycling or buy a brodozer and burn as much gas as possible or live any differently than I do now. But I ask myself, if all of this has made little or no difference, is it worth it? If those of us who care are a minority up against a population that continues to over-reproduce and over-consume, is there any sense to caring any more?

Right now, I don't know. I just don't. Is there hope for things to get better, or is it better just to not give a damn? I really like to know. And no answer here will offend me. I just want the truth.

Brian, I totally understand your questions, but I don't think any of us have the answers.
Yes, it was worth it, you never know who you inspired along your journey. Here is a quote I found on the internet:
"You never know how much the ripples of your actions affect others. One small action, which may seem like nothing to you, could be life-changing to someone else. Keep this in mind as you travel your path, and spread as much love and kindness as you possibly can."

I suppose my questions are more rhetorical than anything. I don't have any answers anymore, that's for sure.
I like your quote. I don't need any confirmation of kudos for anything I've done, I just want results. If anything I've done made a positive difference, that's great, but I don't need to know. I just want to see the planet survive and to see the good that humanity is capable of be able to carry on. I believe both are in grave jeopardy.
I think my problem is that I'm too focused on wanting environmental and social situations to improve and cannot accept the fact that they may not improve. That, I would say, if definitely an personal flaw.

HughFreakingDillon · September 2022

"some say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one".

I was going to say something similar to cropduster, in that your personal good was not wasted. you easily could have inspired someone to also do the same, and that potential ripple effect is unquantifiable.

the fact is, you are going to continue to care whether you like it or not. the only thing you can do is maintain a healthy balance so it's not consuming your life. My personal belief is that the world isn't getting worse; just our awareness of its current state is skewed negative. Think of the crime stats; if you look at the number in your area, it's quite likely that violent crime has been falling steadily for decades. But you wouldn't know it by the state of the news. I (try to) see it on a macro level the same way.

brianlux · September 2022

HughFreakingDillon said:

"some say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one".

I was going to say something similar to cropduster, in that your personal good was not wasted. you easily could have inspired someone to also do the same, and that potential ripple effect is unquantifiable.

the fact is, you are going to continue to care whether you like it or not. the only thing you can do is maintain a healthy balance so it's not consuming your life. My personal belief is that the world isn't getting worse; just our awareness of its current state is skewed negative. Think of the crime stats; if you look at the number in your area, it's quite likely that violent crime has been falling steadily for decades. But you wouldn't know it by the state of the news. I (try to) see it on a macro level the same way.

"the fact is, you are going to continue to care whether you like it or not." That is very likely true.

"the only thing you can do is maintain a healthy balance so it's not consuming your life." And that is good advice but, though I hate to admit it, also points out a major personal flaw of mine.
"My personal belief is that the world isn't getting worse; just our awareness of its current state is skewed negative." I think that's true to some degree, but unfortunately, I actually think environmental issues are under-reported. And I feel bad saying that because I know that sounds very pessimistic. But I do believe we are in more trouble that way than is being reported.

HughFreakingDillon · September 2022

if you're talking purely environmental, yes, I agree, it is getting worse at the moment. But I don't think we're past the point of no return.

Cropduster-80 · September 2022

HughFreakingDillon said:

"some say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one".

I was going to say something similar to cropduster, in that your personal good was not wasted. you easily could have inspired someone to also do the same, and that potential ripple effect is unquantifiable.

the fact is, you are going to continue to care whether you like it or not. the only thing you can do is maintain a healthy balance so it's not consuming your life. My personal belief is that the world isn't getting worse; just our awareness of its current state is skewed negative. Think of the crime stats; if you look at the number in your area, it's quite likely that violent crime has been falling steadily for decades. But you wouldn't know it by the state of the news. I (try to) see it on a macro level the same way.

I don’t know.

I totally get that every generation thinks theirs is the end times and it never is.

somehow this seems different though. I’m fully aware every generation for thousands of years thought that too though and were all wrong. So who knows what is actually driving these thoughts, reality or human nature

between both the environmental catastrophe and the state of the country I just feel like something is going to get us

brianlux · September 2022

Cropduster-80 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

"some say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one".

I was going to say something similar to cropduster, in that your personal good was not wasted. you easily could have inspired someone to also do the same, and that potential ripple effect is unquantifiable.

the fact is, you are going to continue to care whether you like it or not. the only thing you can do is maintain a healthy balance so it's not consuming your life. My personal belief is that the world isn't getting worse; just our awareness of its current state is skewed negative. Think of the crime stats; if you look at the number in your area, it's quite likely that violent crime has been falling steadily for decades. But you wouldn't know it by the state of the news. I (try to) see it on a macro level the same way.

I don’t know.

I totally get that every generation thinks theirs is the end times and it never is.

somehow this seems different though. I’m fully aware every generation for thousands of years thought that too though and were all wrong. So who knows what is actually driving these thoughts, reality or human nature

between both the environmental catastrophe and the state of the country I just feel like something is going to get us

"between both the environmental catastrophe and the state of the country I just feel like something is going to get us"

I think that's true but I also believe there is a way out. That way is dependent on the will of the people.
My parents generation (G.I. era) had it in spades. The were very action oriented, "take the bull by the horns", highly motivated, energetic, hard working people.
My generation showed some motivation early on, particularly with the resistance to the war in Vietnam, and somewhat with starting up environmental activism, but then we let the ball drop and were seduced by the vast luxuries afforded by the unique and incredibly affluent little window in time our generation has lived through.
But now we are in a time of stagnation and limited motivation. There are some very active and highly visible voices on both the left and the right, but the vast majority of us are like deer caught in the headlights. As a society (very generally speaking) we "don't know whether we've been shot, fucked, powder-burned or snake-bit". Our only hope is that a mass uprising of people will become highly motivated and action oriented to work for the general good of the people and the planet. I don't see that happening right now.

jwhjr17 · September 2022

HughFreakingDillon said:

"some say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one".

I was going to say something similar to cropduster, in that your personal good was not wasted. you easily could have inspired someone to also do the same, and that potential ripple effect is unquantifiable.

the fact is, you are going to continue to care whether you like it or not. the only thing you can do is maintain a healthy balance so it's not consuming your life. My personal belief is that the world isn't getting worse; just our awareness of its current state is skewed negative. Think of the crime stats; if you look at the number in your area, it's quite likely that violent crime has been falling steadily for decades. But you wouldn't know it by the state of the news. I (try to) see it on a macro level the same way.

This was the point I was trying to make, thanks HFD for stating it more eloquently than I did. I definitely care, but I just don't let it consume my thoughts or life in general.

bootlegger10 · September 2022

Do what brings you joy, unless that involves clubbing baby seals. If advocating gives you purpose and satisfaction, keep going. If the lack of change just brings disappointment and frustration, then perhaps reset your expectations or mindset before giving up on it. If global warming takes out humanity then that will suck, but the Earth will keep spinning and some sort of life will probably be sustained. No different than any other non-native species that wreaks havoc on an ecosystem. We call it nature except when humans are involved.

The generations 500 years from now won't know that they never existed.... We will all die at some point too. I think we should try to avoid climate change if man made, but don't ruin your life stressing about if so some stranger 500 years from now can go skiing (if this is one of the issues).

Thus endeth my uplifting post of the day.

brianlux · September 2022

bootlegger10 said:

Do what brings you joy, unless that involves clubbing baby seals. If advocating gives you purpose and satisfaction, keep going. If the lack of change just brings disappointment and frustration, then perhaps reset your expectations or mindset before giving up on it. If global warming takes out humanity then that will suck, but the Earth will keep spinning and some sort of life will probably be sustained. No different than any other non-native species that wreaks havoc on an ecosystem. We call it nature except when humans are involved.

The generations 500 years from now won't know that they never existed.... We will all die at some point too. I think we should try to avoid climate change if man made, but don't ruin your life stressing about if so some stranger 500 years from now can go skiing (if this is one of the issues).

Thus endeth my uplifting post of the day.

The fight to end clubbing baby seals is a major factor that led to Captain Paul Watson starting up Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. But now, that organization has been taken over- basically by coup d'état- by a wealthy developer and people who no longer wish to carry on the original intent of Cpt Watson and, in fact, have kicked him off the board and have banned him from using both the name and insignia of the very organization he created.
So yeah, I find it difficult to find purpose and satisfaction in what I've done when so many of the things I have supported are ruined by the wealthy and greedy of this world who show no concern for the health of the planet.
I honestly don't know how to move on any more. Maybe I'll figure it out before I croak.
My only hope is that there will be others who will now take up the challenge. So far, I don't see it happening. Too many people are too comfortable and not pissed off enough to care not well informed enough to do what needs to be done. The average person does next to nothing to protect the planet. We thrive on buying crap, eating up resources, and making the GDP the measure of our success.
Maybe some of the super rich will developed concern after all and do something. They're the ones with all the power now.
Me? I'm nothing.

DarthMaeglin · September 2022

brianlux said:

bootlegger10 said:

Do what brings you joy, unless that involves clubbing baby seals. If advocating gives you purpose and satisfaction, keep going. If the lack of change just brings disappointment and frustration, then perhaps reset your expectations or mindset before giving up on it. If global warming takes out humanity then that will suck, but the Earth will keep spinning and some sort of life will probably be sustained. No different than any other non-native species that wreaks havoc on an ecosystem. We call it nature except when humans are involved.

The generations 500 years from now won't know that they never existed.... We will all die at some point too. I think we should try to avoid climate change if man made, but don't ruin your life stressing about if so some stranger 500 years from now can go skiing (if this is one of the issues).

Thus endeth my uplifting post of the day.

The fight to end clubbing baby seals is a major factor that led to Captain Paul Watson starting up Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. But now, that organization has been taken over- basically by coup d'état- by a wealthy developer and people who no longer wish to carry on the original intent of Cpt Watson and, in fact, have kicked him off the board and have banned him from using both the name and insignia of the very organization he created.
So yeah, I find it difficult to find purpose and satisfaction in what I've done when so many of the things I have supported are ruined by the wealthy and greedy of this world who show no concern for the health of the planet.
I honestly don't know how to move on any more. Maybe I'll figure it out before I croak.
My only hope is that there will be others who will now take up the challenge. So far, I don't see it happening. Too many people are too comfortable and not pissed off enough to care not well informed enough to do what needs to be done. The average person does next to nothing to protect the planet. We thrive on buying crap, eating up resources, and making the GDP the measure of our success.
Maybe some of the super rich will developed concern after all and do something. They're the ones with all the power now.
Me? I'm nothing.

Apologies for jumping in but because I’ve felt the same it really bothers me when anyone says your last 3 words. I truly don’t believe that anyone is ever nothing. That also doesn’t mean we can’t feel like Sysiphus or similarly.

I know you mean it in a more specific sense, but as others have said, no doubt along the way your words and actions have inspired others, even if just in thought. Even here your posts have helped me consider some of my own stances on the issues you clearly hold dear. If nothing else your genuine conviction inspires.

If you’ve lived up to your own principles then you shouldn’t feel any reason to hang your head (in dejection here).

Cropduster-80 · September 2022

brianlux said:

bootlegger10 said:

Do what brings you joy, unless that involves clubbing baby seals. If advocating gives you purpose and satisfaction, keep going. If the lack of change just brings disappointment and frustration, then perhaps reset your expectations or mindset before giving up on it. If global warming takes out humanity then that will suck, but the Earth will keep spinning and some sort of life will probably be sustained. No different than any other non-native species that wreaks havoc on an ecosystem. We call it nature except when humans are involved.

The generations 500 years from now won't know that they never existed.... We will all die at some point too. I think we should try to avoid climate change if man made, but don't ruin your life stressing about if so some stranger 500 years from now can go skiing (if this is one of the issues).

Thus endeth my uplifting post of the day.

The fight to end clubbing baby seals is a major factor that led to Captain Paul Watson starting up Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. But now, that organization has been taken over- basically by coup d'état- by a wealthy developer and people who no longer wish to carry on the original intent of Cpt Watson and, in fact, have kicked him off the board and have banned him from using both the name and insignia of the very organization he created.
So yeah, I find it difficult to find purpose and satisfaction in what I've done when so many of the things I have supported are ruined by the wealthy and greedy of this world who show no concern for the health of the planet.
I honestly don't know how to move on any more. Maybe I'll figure it out before I croak.
My only hope is that there will be others who will now take up the challenge. So far, I don't see it happening. Too many people are too comfortable and not pissed off enough to care not well informed enough to do what needs to be done. The average person does next to nothing to protect the planet. We thrive on buying crap, eating up resources, and making the GDP the measure of our success.
Maybe some of the super rich will developed concern after all and do something. They're the ones with all the power now.
Me? I'm nothing.

It’s depressing for sure.

im being somewhat serious here in that Prozac and such is probably a reason people just sort of ignore this stuff. Nothing is depressing when you are over medicated

we live in a post truth world when people can chose their own facts, when it’s so obvious they can’t ignore it then you can medicate it away.

It’s a lot different then say the leaded gasoline and lead paint environmental disasters of the past (once the truth did come to light). Then when I was young people stopped buying aerosols because of the hole in the ozone layer. People went without their hair spray for a bit until they could change the propellant. Today people on the whole do less, I’m convinced of that.

most people I know recycle less than 15 years ago. Some only do it because the city makes the trash cans smaller and all the cardboard from Amazon won’t fit

brianlux · September 2022

DarthMaeglin said:

brianlux said:

bootlegger10 said:

Do what brings you joy, unless that involves clubbing baby seals. If advocating gives you purpose and satisfaction, keep going. If the lack of change just brings disappointment and frustration, then perhaps reset your expectations or mindset before giving up on it. If global warming takes out humanity then that will suck, but the Earth will keep spinning and some sort of life will probably be sustained. No different than any other non-native species that wreaks havoc on an ecosystem. We call it nature except when humans are involved.

The generations 500 years from now won't know that they never existed.... We will all die at some point too. I think we should try to avoid climate change if man made, but don't ruin your life stressing about if so some stranger 500 years from now can go skiing (if this is one of the issues).

Thus endeth my uplifting post of the day.

The fight to end clubbing baby seals is a major factor that led to Captain Paul Watson starting up Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. But now, that organization has been taken over- basically by coup d'état- by a wealthy developer and people who no longer wish to carry on the original intent of Cpt Watson and, in fact, have kicked him off the board and have banned him from using both the name and insignia of the very organization he created.
So yeah, I find it difficult to find purpose and satisfaction in what I've done when so many of the things I have supported are ruined by the wealthy and greedy of this world who show no concern for the health of the planet.
I honestly don't know how to move on any more. Maybe I'll figure it out before I croak.
My only hope is that there will be others who will now take up the challenge. So far, I don't see it happening. Too many people are too comfortable and not pissed off enough to care not well informed enough to do what needs to be done. The average person does next to nothing to protect the planet. We thrive on buying crap, eating up resources, and making the GDP the measure of our success.
Maybe some of the super rich will developed concern after all and do something. They're the ones with all the power now.
Me? I'm nothing.

Apologies for jumping in but because I’ve felt the same it really bothers me when anyone says your last 3 words. I truly don’t believe that anyone is ever nothing. That also doesn’t mean we can’t feel like Sysiphus or similarly.

I know you mean it in a more specific sense, but as others have said, no doubt along the way your words and actions have inspired others, even if just in thought. Even here your posts have helped me consider some of my own stances on the issues you clearly hold dear. If nothing else your genuine conviction inspires.

If you’ve lived up to your own principles then you shouldn’t feel any reason to hang your head (in dejection here).

No need to apologize, Darth. I appreciate your input (always have).

I will still live up to my principles, and maybe that's enough. I've never had illusions of grandeur (if anything, I've often felt inadequate, not as smart or as talented as I would like to be). But I've always been honest and forthright and done what I could.

I think more than anything I'm just sad because there is so much human potential in the world and it's hard not to believe we've wasted it, blown it. I guess that's why I so much love music, art, books, or anything creative. Those avenues have always been where we as a species have excelled. Maybe that's why we're here.

Cropduster-80 said:

brianlux said:

bootlegger10 said:

Do what brings you joy, unless that involves clubbing baby seals. If advocating gives you purpose and satisfaction, keep going. If the lack of change just brings disappointment and frustration, then perhaps reset your expectations or mindset before giving up on it. If global warming takes out humanity then that will suck, but the Earth will keep spinning and some sort of life will probably be sustained. No different than any other non-native species that wreaks havoc on an ecosystem. We call it nature except when humans are involved.

The generations 500 years from now won't know that they never existed.... We will all die at some point too. I think we should try to avoid climate change if man made, but don't ruin your life stressing about if so some stranger 500 years from now can go skiing (if this is one of the issues).

Thus endeth my uplifting post of the day.

The fight to end clubbing baby seals is a major factor that led to Captain Paul Watson starting up Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. But now, that organization has been taken over- basically by coup d'état- by a wealthy developer and people who no longer wish to carry on the original intent of Cpt Watson and, in fact, have kicked him off the board and have banned him from using both the name and insignia of the very organization he created.
So yeah, I find it difficult to find purpose and satisfaction in what I've done when so many of the things I have supported are ruined by the wealthy and greedy of this world who show no concern for the health of the planet.
I honestly don't know how to move on any more. Maybe I'll figure it out before I croak.
My only hope is that there will be others who will now take up the challenge. So far, I don't see it happening. Too many people are too comfortable and not pissed off enough to care not well informed enough to do what needs to be done. The average person does next to nothing to protect the planet. We thrive on buying crap, eating up resources, and making the GDP the measure of our success.
Maybe some of the super rich will developed concern after all and do something. They're the ones with all the power now.
Me? I'm nothing.

It’s depressing for sure.

im being somewhat serious here in that Prozac and such is probably a reason people just sort of ignore this stuff. Nothing is depressing when you are over medicated

we live in a post truth world when people can chose their own facts, when it’s so obvious they can’t ignore it then you can medicate it away.

It’s a lot different then say the leaded gasoline and lead paint environmental disasters of the past (once the truth did come to light). Then when I was young people stopped buying aerosols because of the hole in the ozone layer. People went without their hair spray for a bit until they could change the propellant. Today people on the whole do less, I’m convinced of that.

most people I know recycle less than 15 years ago. Some only do it because the city makes the trash cans smaller and all the cardboard from Amazon won’t fit

Medication- wow, that's another story and a complicated one. I try not to bad mouth the idea of people taking medication- I did for several years until about 16 years ago then stopped all together- but my own experience with meds proved to me that it's a really dicey deal and can sometime (maybe often) do more harm that good. I would encourage anyone to be very cautious, would advice limited usage, and then getting off them and move one to learning some good coping techniques. That's generally the better solution. But I'm no shrink- this is purely one person's thought on that subject.

"post truth world" Oh man, that's the truth. It takes a lot of looking around, reading, talking, etc to even get half way there.

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I'm encourage in a couple of ways reading the posts here. Encouraged to know people here are aware of what's up, and encouraged to know people here really to care. That's big, very big.
Good things happen her. You folks are great, thanks.

static111 · September 2022

I don't know. I vacillate on this one. There is a lot that can be done, but it would likely cause some short term hurt on the financial and paper money economy. Rotating crops, not over producing, shortening supply chains, making diets that are more regional, Less plastic ad cardboard packaging etc. I'm not sure people would be up for it. We (the US) has a massive standing army that s a resource hog and bad for the environment and the human condition, that we use to basically club the rest of the world into allowing our business interests to call the shots..

Don't reread Ishmael, especially the part about the early aeronauts as it relates to the Airplane of civilization, Also do not read A Short History of Progress by Ronald Wright...We have been here before, there is geological, historical and archeological evidence dating back thousands of years, showing not just the Western world's follies, but the follies of the major civilizations of pre christianity and the major civilizations of the pre Columbus New World. The only difference is the scale, If we overwork the planet it is going to be much harder for 7bn people to find new places and ways to live, but hey let's keep that one click low price economy going, after all we are only borrowing from the future and some of us might never have to see the bill come due.

Is there any point any more?

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