*** DONALD J TRUMP HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN INDICTED ***

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Comments

  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited August 2022
    Gern Blansten said:
    It seems that we've reached a point where not indicting would result in more uproar than indicting.

    tRump's deplorables will flip out but it will be hard for right wing talking heads to argue too much. Even Steve Doocy will likely agree that he should be indicted.
    I think we have reached a point in which our entire system of government and it’s legal framework needs to be completely overhauled to prevent exploiting unclear processes and very vaguely written powers.

    I don’t care if he gets indicted or not. It still doesn’t really fix the underlying issues. There are certainly interesting points on both sides. That’s a result of the how the presidency is structured more than it being about trump specifically 

    it’s shocking it took this long to get a guy like trump into the presidency. It’s happened once to this degree and everything falls apart. Doesn’t seem like a good foundation to me 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,298
    2021
    Cropduster-80 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    It seems that we've reached a point where not indicting would result in more uproar than indicting.

    tRump's deplorables will flip out but it will be hard for right wing talking heads to argue too much. Even Steve Doocy will likely agree that he should be indicted.
    I think we have reached a point in which our entire system of government and it’s legal framework needs to be completely overhauled to prevent exploiting unclear processes and very vaguely written powers.

    I don’t care if he gets indicted or not. It still doesn’t really fix the underlying issues. There are certainly interesting points on both sides. That’s a result of the how the presidency is structured more than it being about trump specifically 

    it’s shocking it took this long to get a guy like trump into the presidency. It’s happened once to this degree and everything falls apart. Doesn’t seem like a good foundation to me 
    Part of me wants to argue that the system worked...that he wasn't successful with his attempted bullshit.

    But yet if a few key people had gone his way we would be in a dramatically different position.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
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    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
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  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited August 2022
    Gern Blansten said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    It seems that we've reached a point where not indicting would result in more uproar than indicting.

    tRump's deplorables will flip out but it will be hard for right wing talking heads to argue too much. Even Steve Doocy will likely agree that he should be indicted.
    I think we have reached a point in which our entire system of government and it’s legal framework needs to be completely overhauled to prevent exploiting unclear processes and very vaguely written powers.

    I don’t care if he gets indicted or not. It still doesn’t really fix the underlying issues. There are certainly interesting points on both sides. That’s a result of the how the presidency is structured more than it being about trump specifically 

    it’s shocking it took this long to get a guy like trump into the presidency. It’s happened once to this degree and everything falls apart. Doesn’t seem like a good foundation to me 
    Part of me wants to argue that the system worked...that he wasn't successful with his attempted bullshit.

    But yet if a few key people had gone his way we would be in a dramatically different position.
    Yeah, people say it worked, it didn’t.

    you could have had a Republican Vice President rejecting slates of electors. Republican governors or legislators in several states not certifying etc.

    that’s just the election specifically.  There was tons of other stuff where aids had to stop Trump from being trump.  Every time it was someone on Team trump having to make that call.  It’s dumb luck we got through it.

    impeachment was never a viable option when it’s a partisan process 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    edited August 2022
    2022
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It actually did work because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,298
    2021
    It just shows how immoral that fucker is. I still can't believe the piece of shit was elected.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited August 2022
    The Juggler said:
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It worked because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    Having to depend on a Vice President seems like a reasonable concern for example. He has a specific interest in keeping his job. Do that situation 100 times, no way all 100 times the individual person does the right thing. That’s the point, depending on people, not a strong framework 

    the electoral count act is vague. The fact his role was even discussed in that context is a problem. We could clarify it, just to be sure but we probably won’t 

    I suppose Al Gore could have tried that argument too two decades earlier. 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,599
    THE FIELD
    The Juggler said:
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It actually did work because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    depending on humans to do the right thing instead of being bound by law to do the right thing is the issue. it easily could have gone sideways. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited August 2022
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    The Juggler said:
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It actually did work because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    depending on humans to do the right thing instead of being bound by law to do the right thing is the issue. it easily could have gone sideways. 
    Especially if 2020 was just a test run.

    all you have to do is look at the number of election deniers running for Secretary of State. Not to mention other state positions that can intervene in elections 

    people did do the right thing, those people are trying to be replaced because they did the right thing 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    2022
    Cropduster-80 said:
    The Juggler said:
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It worked because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    Having to depend on a Vice President seems like a reasonable concern for example. He has a specific interest in keeping his job. Do that situation 100 times, no way all 100 times the individual person does the right thing. That’s the point, depending on people, not a strong framework 

    the electoral count act is vague. The fact his role was even discussed in that context is a problem. We could clarify it, just to be sure but we probably won’t 

    I suppose Al Gore could have tried that argument too two decades earlier. 
    By definition the system worked. If it didn't, your what if's would've actually happened.

    I want more done than that Electoral Count Act too, but, I believe, one of the things it does is clarify that VP's job that day is only ceremonial.  
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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    edited August 2022
    2022
    Cropduster-80 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    The Juggler said:
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It actually did work because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    depending on humans to do the right thing instead of being bound by law to do the right thing is the issue. it easily could have gone sideways. 
    Especially if 2020 was just a test run.

    all you have to do is look at the number of election deniers running for Secretary of State. Not to mention other state positions that can intervene in elections 

    people did do the right thing, those people are trying to be replaced because they did the right thing 
    This is the bigger issue--what can happen moving forward. The system worked in 2020 and worked for over 200 years prior. You can't say that it didn't. But moving forward, yes there is absolutely concern. That is why the midterms are so fucking important. 
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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    2022
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    The Juggler said:
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It actually did work because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    depending on humans to do the right thing instead of being bound by law to do the right thing is the issue. it easily could have gone sideways. 
    Agreed. The system is by no means perfect and absolutely needs updating. My point was that it has actually worked up to this point. 
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  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited August 2022
    The Juggler said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    The Juggler said:
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It actually did work because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    depending on humans to do the right thing instead of being bound by law to do the right thing is the issue. it easily could have gone sideways. 
    Especially if 2020 was just a test run.

    all you have to do is look at the number of election deniers running for Secretary of State. Not to mention other state positions that can intervene in elections 

    people did do the right thing, those people are trying to be replaced because they did the right thing 
    This is the bigger issue--what can happen moving forward. The system worked in 2020 and worked for over 200 years prior. You can't say that it didn't. But moving forward, yes there is absolutely concern. That is why the midterms are so fucking important. 
    They are adapting to get around the roadblocks so yeah, not changing or clarifying  the process is insane. 

    If there is a loophole it will be exploited.  What makes it crazy is we know the loopholes are there and ignore it 


  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    2022
    Cropduster-80 said:
    The Juggler said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    The Juggler said:
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It actually did work because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    depending on humans to do the right thing instead of being bound by law to do the right thing is the issue. it easily could have gone sideways. 
    Especially if 2020 was just a test run.

    all you have to do is look at the number of election deniers running for Secretary of State. Not to mention other state positions that can intervene in elections 

    people did do the right thing, those people are trying to be replaced because they did the right thing 
    This is the bigger issue--what can happen moving forward. The system worked in 2020 and worked for over 200 years prior. You can't say that it didn't. But moving forward, yes there is absolutely concern. That is why the midterms are so fucking important. 
    They are adapting to get around the roadblocks so yeah, not changing or clarifying  the process is insane. 

    If there is a loophole it will be exploited.  What makes it crazy is we know the loopholes are there and ignore it 


    The scary thing is they seem more focused on the local and state positions. That has been Bannon's plan for the last two years now .

    Thankfully things are trending in the right direction. A ton of shit can happen in the next couple months but hopefully things continue the way they've been since Roe was overturned. 
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,630
    The Juggler said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    The Juggler said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    The Juggler said:
    You can't really say it did not work and then rattle off a bunch of what if's as to how it could not have worked.
    It actually did work because the people in those positions did the right thing. 
    depending on humans to do the right thing instead of being bound by law to do the right thing is the issue. it easily could have gone sideways. 
    Especially if 2020 was just a test run.

    all you have to do is look at the number of election deniers running for Secretary of State. Not to mention other state positions that can intervene in elections 

    people did do the right thing, those people are trying to be replaced because they did the right thing 
    This is the bigger issue--what can happen moving forward. The system worked in 2020 and worked for over 200 years prior. You can't say that it didn't. But moving forward, yes there is absolutely concern. That is why the midterms are so fucking important. 
    They are adapting to get around the roadblocks so yeah, not changing or clarifying  the process is insane. 

    If there is a loophole it will be exploited.  What makes it crazy is we know the loopholes are there and ignore it 


    The scary thing is they seem more focused on the local and state positions. That has been Bannon's plan for the last two years now .

    Thankfully things are trending in the right direction. A ton of shit can happen in the next couple months but hopefully things continue the way they've been since Roe was overturned. 

    state positions are how we got to this level of gerrymander..... 20 yrs or more in the making
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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    2022

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,454
    2021
    During this time, I have received training at the FBI Academy located at Quantico, Virginia, specific to counterintelligence and espionage investigations.

    Based on my experience and training, I am familiar with efforts used to unlawfully collect, retain, and disseminate sensitive government information, including classified NDI.

    Based upon the following facts, there is probable cause to believe that the locations to be searched at the PREMISES contain evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793(e), 1519,or2071

    And that's just in the first three pages. Let's see POOTWH explain this away with the wave of the hand and shouts of witch hunt.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited August 2022
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Let's see POOTWH explain this away with the wave of the hand and shouts of witch hunt.
    If I had a dollar for every time I heard that. 

    Smoking gun or not, I would put money he never sets foot inside a jail cell or that he’s convicted of anything at the level of a felony 

    Anyone know what the vegas odds are? There has to be wagering on this 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,454
    2021
    The Save America PAC released a statement claiming everything had been returned and it was a routine preservation of POOTWH's legacy. Then the portions immediately following the image of the "statement" is heavily redacted. Someone is under investigation.

    If you take the minimum charge of the three years from the types of potential violations of law, 20 years, 10 years and 3 years, and apply them to the 187 documents found, the minimum prison sentence would be 561 years. Now, lets cut that in half, its 280 years. Now lets cut it in half again because we'll assume the lower end of the sentencing guidelines, that's 140 years. Now lets assume the judge is lenient and deferential to POOTWH, and cuts in half again, thats 70 years. Factor in time off for good behavior while awaiting trial and cooperating with the government or copping a guilty plea, that 35 years. Suspend 25 years for behaving for 10 years after the sentence is served and POOTWH is looking at 10 years. I'm okay with that.

    The fucking guys fingerprints are probably on the documents because he wrote on them in his handwriting. Me thinks POOTWH is fucked. And the best part? That fruit from the poisonous tree, FISA is mentioned.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited August 2022
    All of that, requires the Supreme Court to rule he doesn’t have the authority to magically declassify whatever he wants. It’s 100 percent going there. And it’s not clear he loses on that argument. 

    Expectations need to be realistic.  He wouldn’t have done any of this by accident. He had to have had legal advise he could win this exact argument.  It’s not about the documents at all.  The documents are to set up a fight with the government.  In no way do I believe this was not calculated in advance by team trump.  Everyone knew he had them it’s not surprising, the question needs to be why keep them when you know the feds will come in and take them?

    it’s like Ted Cruz deliberately violating campaign finance law so he could take it to court.  It wasn’t an accident.  During his 2018 campaign, Cruz loaned himself $260,000 one day before winning reelection, intentionally going $10,000 above the legal limit for repayment to have grounds to sue the Federal Election Commission and argue against the law.


    other people may go to jail. Not trump.  The fact he violated the law is clear. Your only defense has to be arguing against the law itself as to its application to a sitting president on classified documents which he was at the time and former presidents in reguard to their presidential documents 

    there is literally no other play besides that 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    edited August 2022
    2022
    Indictment is coming. 

    Then the second indictment thread will be created. lol
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