Canadian Politics Redux

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/ts/politics/federal/2022/05/25/justin-trudeau-cancels-bc-appearance-after-protesters-gather-carrying-noose.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=thepeterboroughexaminer_politics



"peaceful protesters". 

I’ve seen ZERO assertions of violence by this group and if that’s considered violence these days we really are beyond hope. Oh yeah, horn are tools of terror now, so I guess we really are fucked.

Just for clarity, I have difficulty with dismissing my fellow humans out of hand for any reason. If you refuse to engage, then never will there be change.

holding a gallows/noose that says "trudeau treason" isn't violent imagery to you? everyone seemed to agree that "hang mike pence" was pretty damn violent. These losers are doing the same shit. If you want to be associated with Trumpism, that's your call. 

I don't recall seeing anyone saying horns are "tools of terror", only that it was incredibly disruptive to those that lived in the vicinity. People who were trying to live their lives. Have you ever gone days without a good sleep? It really is detrimental to mental health. Protesting day and night in a residential neighbourhood is NOT peaceful protesting. Disturbing the peace is a criminal offense under our criminal code. 

Honestly Darth, it seems your hatred of JT is so far beyond, you can't see even the smallest issue with the modes with which his detractors employ. 

I’ll attempt (and likely screw up) my take on the noose but at the end of the day I expect we’ll have to agree to disagree. In this context, I see the noose as making a political point (whether one agrees or disagrees), not an actual threat. I admit there are more…tasteful ways to make the point, but it’s that simple for me. I don’t see it as any worse than tearing down statues (without some sort of due process) or some of the other “understandable” forms of protest we’ve seen employed recently. It’s not just the political right that has lowered the bar on this, in my opinion.

As far as my hatred of Trudeau goes (which I have and will continue to acknowledge), in 2015 I tried to give Trudeau a chance (as I urged people to do with Trump which had the effect of having me labeled a Trump supporter). When one of Trudeau’s first acts as government was to give dual citizenship back to terrorists, well, that started my fears about where we were/are headed. I still feel SNC was beyond inappropriate (possibly criminal), his constant divisiveness (inappropriate as PM) and his utter lack of integrity just sink him even more. He has made clear there’s rules for us that he needn’t worry about. Finally, his pretreatment of the convoy protest places much of the blame for how things played out at his feet (something he has never owned himself). And I don’t watch Fox News, do Facebook or follow Tucker Carlson. My opinions have been arrived at through 7+ years of observing Trudeau as an MP (called Peter Kent a piece of shit in the HoC), then as PM (where he’s shown the same level of respect for our institutions as he did previously).

And don’t get me started about how open and transparent he promised to be, along with not employing legislative trickery (proroguing, omnibus bills). He’s more Harper than Harper ever was.

All that said, maybe we could return to the point I was making about how counter protesting doesn’t help or accomplish anything generally? And it seems the Magic Man and I are in agreement on this point?

Edit: One last (I hope) comment on the noose. If the protesters had built a functional gallows with a proper rope I would likely have a different reaction, but that’s not what happened.

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/ts/politics/federal/2022/05/25/justin-trudeau-cancels-bc-appearance-after-protesters-gather-carrying-noose.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=thepeterboroughexaminer_politics



"peaceful protesters". 

I’ve seen ZERO assertions of violence by this group and if that’s considered violence these days we really are beyond hope. Oh yeah, horn are tools of terror now, so I guess we really are fucked.

Just for clarity, I have difficulty with dismissing my fellow humans out of hand for any reason. If you refuse to engage, then never will there be change.

holding a gallows/noose that says "trudeau treason" isn't violent imagery to you? everyone seemed to agree that "hang mike pence" was pretty damn violent. These losers are doing the same shit. If you want to be associated with Trumpism, that's your call. 

I don't recall seeing anyone saying horns are "tools of terror", only that it was incredibly disruptive to those that lived in the vicinity. People who were trying to live their lives. Have you ever gone days without a good sleep? It really is detrimental to mental health. Protesting day and night in a residential neighbourhood is NOT peaceful protesting. Disturbing the peace is a criminal offense under our criminal code. 

Honestly Darth, it seems your hatred of JT is so far beyond, you can't see even the smallest issue with the modes with which his detractors employ. 

Hugh, I realized I completely skipped over whether or not I’m giving extra leeway to the anti-Trudeau protesters, and that really is something I should give some consideration. My knee jerk response is that I feel I’m simply tolerating what I’ve seen tolerated in addition to not holding the entire group responsible for the words and gestures of individuals.

I’ll give it some more serious thought and get back if I should change my view on that.

I wish everyone here discussed/debated like you do. 

I really don’t understand why this training exercise had to become partisan by assigning a cause to the “protesters”. All the actors had to do was yell “We want something!” or “We’re against something!” with accompanying signs saying the same.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-pearson-airport-emergency-exercise-gtaa-1.6469694

dignin said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I really don’t understand why this training exercise had to become partisan by assigning a cause to the “protesters”. All the actors had to do was yell “We want something!” or “We’re against something!” with accompanying signs saying the same.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-pearson-airport-emergency-exercise-gtaa-1.6469694

What an odd thing to be concerned about.

I’ve never claimed to not be odd, but I might ask you to flip it around and consider how you might feel if they had used a group you sympathize with for a training exercise. As I suggested, why couldn’t they have used generic chants instead, then I wouldn’t have had anything to post about, lol?

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

dignin said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I really don’t understand why this training exercise had to become partisan by assigning a cause to the “protesters”. All the actors had to do was yell “We want something!” or “We’re against something!” with accompanying signs saying the same.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-pearson-airport-emergency-exercise-gtaa-1.6469694

What an odd thing to be concerned about.

I’ve never claimed to not be odd, but I might ask you to flip it around and consider how you might feel if they had used a group you sympathize with for a training exercise. As I suggested, why couldn’t they have used generic chants instead, then I wouldn’t have had anything to post about, lol?

Was the cause assigned, though? It's an interesting question and I have been trying to figure that out but haven't found any information yet. 

The signs definitely look home made and are variable enough in construction and content that I assumed that people were just told to bring their own signs and that's what they brought. I would not assume a cause was assigned. 

I don’t deny that what you’re positing is possible, but I have some serious doubts, given the uniformity of the signs (they look to me like they were made on site). At some point I’d wonder the same thing as I do about Trudeau’s high school blackface escapades: where were the grown ups to say this might not be the wisest move?

If everyone else in the crowd was making signs for one cause, would others feel comfortable (even safe these days) making signs representing the “other side”?

 I especially like the “Trump 2024” sign, lol. Can’t even get their country right, lol.

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

dignin said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I really don’t understand why this training exercise had to become partisan by assigning a cause to the “protesters”. All the actors had to do was yell “We want something!” or “We’re against something!” with accompanying signs saying the same.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-pearson-airport-emergency-exercise-gtaa-1.6469694

What an odd thing to be concerned about.

I’ve never claimed to not be odd, but I might ask you to flip it around and consider how you might feel if they had used a group you sympathize with for a training exercise. As I suggested, why couldn’t they have used generic chants instead, then I wouldn’t have had anything to post about, lol?

Was the cause assigned, though? It's an interesting question and I have been trying to figure that out but haven't found any information yet. 

The signs definitely look home made and are variable enough in construction and content that I assumed that people were just told to bring their own signs and that's what they brought. I would not assume a cause was assigned. 

I don’t deny that what you’re positing is possible, but I have some serious doubts, given the uniformity of the signs (they look to me like they were made on site). At some point I’d wonder the same thing as I do about Trudeau’s high school blackface escapades: where were the grown ups to say this might not be the wisest move?

If everyone else in the crowd was making signs for one cause, would others feel comfortable (even safe these days) making signs representing the “other side”?

 I especially like the “Trump 2024” sign, lol. Can’t even get their country right, lol.

but those signs were seen at the trucker convoy. along with chants of "USA! USA!". so they got it bang on. 

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

dignin said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I really don’t understand why this training exercise had to become partisan by assigning a cause to the “protesters”. All the actors had to do was yell “We want something!” or “We’re against something!” with accompanying signs saying the same.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-pearson-airport-emergency-exercise-gtaa-1.6469694

What an odd thing to be concerned about.

I’ve never claimed to not be odd, but I might ask you to flip it around and consider how you might feel if they had used a group you sympathize with for a training exercise. As I suggested, why couldn’t they have used generic chants instead, then I wouldn’t have had anything to post about, lol?

Was the cause assigned, though? It's an interesting question and I have been trying to figure that out but haven't found any information yet. 

The signs definitely look home made and are variable enough in construction and content that I assumed that people were just told to bring their own signs and that's what they brought. I would not assume a cause was assigned. 

I don’t deny that what you’re positing is possible, but I have some serious doubts, given the uniformity of the signs (they look to me like they were made on site). At some point I’d wonder the same thing as I do about Trudeau’s high school blackface escapades: where were the grown ups to say this might not be the wisest move?

If everyone else in the crowd was making signs for one cause, would others feel comfortable (even safe these days) making signs representing the “other side”?

 I especially like the “Trump 2024” sign, lol. Can’t even get their country right, lol.

To what I think is your point in the second paragraph, I haven’t seen much evidence that anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers don’t feel comfortable or safe in expressing their views . They’ve been expressing the hell out of them where I live. 

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

dignin said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I really don’t understand why this training exercise had to become partisan by assigning a cause to the “protesters”. All the actors had to do was yell “We want something!” or “We’re against something!” with accompanying signs saying the same.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-pearson-airport-emergency-exercise-gtaa-1.6469694

What an odd thing to be concerned about.

I’ve never claimed to not be odd, but I might ask you to flip it around and consider how you might feel if they had used a group you sympathize with for a training exercise. As I suggested, why couldn’t they have used generic chants instead, then I wouldn’t have had anything to post about, lol?

Was the cause assigned, though? It's an interesting question and I have been trying to figure that out but haven't found any information yet. 

The signs definitely look home made and are variable enough in construction and content that I assumed that people were just told to bring their own signs and that's what they brought. I would not assume a cause was assigned. 

I don’t deny that what you’re positing is possible, but I have some serious doubts, given the uniformity of the signs (they look to me like they were made on site). At some point I’d wonder the same thing as I do about Trudeau’s high school blackface escapades: where were the grown ups to say this might not be the wisest move?

If everyone else in the crowd was making signs for one cause, would others feel comfortable (even safe these days) making signs representing the “other side”?

 I especially like the “Trump 2024” sign, lol. Can’t even get their country right, lol.

To what I think is your point in the second paragraph, I haven’t seen much evidence that anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers don’t feel comfortable or safe in expressing their views . They’ve been expressing the hell out of them where I live. 

My poor wording skills strike again,  I meant that sentence in an entirely hypothetical way, trying in part to make a point about human nature (go along to get along) as well as today's environment being so polarized. If I was one of the mock (and I can't stress that point enough,  I'm sorry) protesters and told to make a sign, I doubt I'd write a message on mine that was the opposite of everyone else's. And these days I'd wonder about what harassment or abuse I might be setting myself up for if I did, in all honesty. 

I definitely acknowledge the current anti-mandates crowd aren't very quiet about it though.

Edit: I'm not on Twitter either and getting an answer on this isn't reason enough for me to sign up either,  lol.

I still don't know if they even were assigned, but the more that I think about it the more I don't have a problem with it if they were. 

The goal of a mock drill is to make the situation as realistic as possible, and it's hard to deny that the majority of disruptive protests over the past year have been related to covid.