Housing Prices, Housing problems

tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 34,293
edited February 8 in A Moving Train
Housing prices and rent increases are happening across the US.  My cousin just reported a 20% increase in her rent in Florida.  I don't know how that is even legal?

After the last housing boom/decline in 08 the people w money have been gobbling up houses and either flipping them for increased profits or holding long term and renting.  Both have helped the prices to soar to unimaginable highs.

Higher prices mean more homeless too.  PJ even had concerts to try and help this where tents are all too common in Washington and California.

What troubled me today was reading an article in the New York Times and it mentioned  that almost half, 42% of their tenants are behind some way on their rent.  https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/nyregion/in-arrears-and-anxious.html

Anyone in real estate?  I am wondering how people are affording these million dollar homes?  I make 6 figures and don't understand what career path I messed up in taking, lol?

I am curious on what it is like by you?  Is a correction coming?  Is this yet another divide in middle and lower classes?

Renting used to be the cheaper viable option to home owning, that ship has sailed.  It is now cheaper to own a home in most cases.

Thoughts?
«13

Comments

  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,559
    Part of the problem is people leaving states like CA, selling a less than average home for 600k, then buying the nice houses out of state and driving up the prices there.
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 6,482
    mace1229 said:
    Part of the problem is people leaving states like CA, selling a less than average home for 600k, then buying the nice houses out of state and driving up the prices there.
    Yup. Same for NYC.  You can sell something for over 1 million dollars that needs a complete gut renovation, buy two properties in Florida and still have money left over , while driving up the price in your new neighborhood.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,559
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Part of the problem is people leaving states like CA, selling a less than average home for 600k, then buying the nice houses out of state and driving up the prices there.
    Yup. Same for NYC.  You can sell something for over 1 million dollars that needs a complete gut renovation, buy two properties in Florida and still have money left over , while driving up the price in your new neighborhood.
    While living in a new city that doesn’t allow drug use and needles in the city malls and actually make arrests for stolen cars and break-ins.
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,746
    I'm in mortgages for over 20 years.  Housing prices have been fueled by extremely low supply and historically low interest rates.  The pandemic further exacerbated this as people realized the importance of the space they were spending so much time in and work from home capabilities allowing moves to occur that otherwise may not have. 
    As far as people affording seven figure homes goes, they are qualified buyers.  Loose lending standards to do not exist like they did pre-2009. 
    Will a correction occur?  Maybe.  Certain areas that are over-heated may be more likely.  Markets with in influx of residents from high tax states have seen prices surge to extreme levels in a very short period of time, so we know it is not sustainable, but the demand to enter these areas is still there.  For that reason, no one knows what type of correction will occur, if any at all.
    Demand will wane with higher interest rates upon us and prices that have become unaffordable for many.  It is a sticky situation, for sure.
  • static111static111 Posts: 3,979
    My family is looking at building our own tiny home. Not because we are altruistic and care about the space we take up etc, but because 350,000 for a starter home in our area is ridiculous and unaffordable.  
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  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 6,482
    static111 said:
    My family is looking at building our own tiny home. Not because we are altruistic and care about the space we take up etc, but because 350,000 for a starter home in our area is ridiculous and unaffordable.  
    I feel you. I’ll definitely be moving out of NYC within the next few years. 1 million here won’t even get you something that’s inhabitable. Besides that, I’m not seeing tax dollars being put to good use here. It’s a fuckin mess here considering how much taxes are. 
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 6,482
    mace1229 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Part of the problem is people leaving states like CA, selling a less than average home for 600k, then buying the nice houses out of state and driving up the prices there.
    Yup. Same for NYC.  You can sell something for over 1 million dollars that needs a complete gut renovation, buy two properties in Florida and still have money left over , while driving up the price in your new neighborhood.
    While living in a new city that doesn’t allow drug use and needles in the city malls and actually make arrests for stolen cars and break-ins.
    Yea that’s a whole other story. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,559
    We’re looking moving out of state. I live in Aurora, just next to the Denver city line. It’s a mess. Schools are a mess. I’ve worked at 2 schools here and both say they can’t discipline minorities because that is racist, but both schools were a minority majority. Crime is skyrocketing and they don’t do anything about it. Two weeks ago someone tried to break into our house at 9:30 AM. Come to find he stole a car and crashed it through a fence 3 houses down ad fled. He ditched some drugs at our house. They had little interest in catching him because the police are so understaffed and no consequences. 
    We’ve owned a home for almost 10 years, we’ll be able to put about 75% down from the the equity from increased housing costs here on a house out of state. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,021
    Institutional investors, private equity and foreign wealth funds, not to mention AB&B and VRBO. But sure, blame it all on the “other” and defund the police. Oh, and that pesky pandemic that shook up the office world.
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  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 6,482
    Institutional investors, private equity and foreign wealth funds, not to mention AB&B and VRBO. But sure, blame it all on the “other” and defund the police. Oh, and that pesky pandemic that shook up the office world.
    Lol. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,021
    nicknyr15 said:
    Institutional investors, private equity and foreign wealth funds, not to mention AB&B and VRBO. But sure, blame it all on the “other” and defund the police. Oh, and that pesky pandemic that shook up the office world.
    Lol. 
    ROTFLMAO.
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  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,746
    Institutional investors, private equity and foreign wealth funds, not to mention AB&B and VRBO. But sure, blame it all on the “other” and defund the police. Oh, and that pesky pandemic that shook up the office world.
    Sure, those are contributing factors that you mention.  Are you saying that the pesky pandemic shaking up the office world is not?  That was a huge driving force of housing demand, which coupled with low inventory helped to drive up prices.  That's what this thread is about; "housing prices."  Also, it is very easy to look up inflow and outflow of states.  There are certain states that are losing residents on a large scale, mine being one.  The reasons can be debated, but there is also data on "the why" from polls of outgoing residents.  This stuff is pretty cut and dry.

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,021
    bbiggs said:
    Institutional investors, private equity and foreign wealth funds, not to mention AB&B and VRBO. But sure, blame it all on the “other” and defund the police. Oh, and that pesky pandemic that shook up the office world.
    Sure, those are contributing factors that you mention.  Are you saying that the pesky pandemic shaking up the office world is not?  That was a huge driving force of housing demand, which coupled with low inventory helped to drive up prices.  That's what this thread is about; "housing prices."  Also, it is very easy to look up inflow and outflow of states.  There are certain states that are losing residents on a large scale, mine being one.  The reasons can be debated, but there is also data on "the why" from polls of outgoing residents.  This stuff is pretty cut and dry.

    Yes, I’m saying the pandemic shaking up the office world and people having the ability to work from just about anywhere has also contributed.

    Links to your polling data and in flow/out flow data would be appreciated.

    Do you believe the reasons I stated don’t contribute to housing prices or a reduction in inventory?
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  • mfc2006mfc2006 HOU-->PDX-->KCPosts: 36,333
    Saw an article over the weekend saying that the average US home price jumped up by almost 100k since 2019. We just finished some massive renovations to our house and had out realtor come by for an estimated property valuation. She said she list it for $150k+ more than we paid for it in 2017 and my jaw hit the damn floor. She said it would sell quickly with a bidding war. Our next door neighbor just sold their home (3 days after listing it) and got 100k over asking without any renovations. CRAZY.
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  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,746
    bbiggs said:
    Institutional investors, private equity and foreign wealth funds, not to mention AB&B and VRBO. But sure, blame it all on the “other” and defund the police. Oh, and that pesky pandemic that shook up the office world.
    Sure, those are contributing factors that you mention.  Are you saying that the pesky pandemic shaking up the office world is not?  That was a huge driving force of housing demand, which coupled with low inventory helped to drive up prices.  That's what this thread is about; "housing prices."  Also, it is very easy to look up inflow and outflow of states.  There are certain states that are losing residents on a large scale, mine being one.  The reasons can be debated, but there is also data on "the why" from polls of outgoing residents.  This stuff is pretty cut and dry.

    Yes, I’m saying the pandemic shaking up the office world and people having the ability to work from just about anywhere has also contributed.

    Links to your polling data and in flow/out flow data would be appreciated.

    Do you believe the reasons I stated don’t contribute to housing prices or a reduction in inventory?
    I absolutely think your points were contributors and I stated that in my initial post.  I’ll post links regarding state inflow/outflow later. 
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 4,428
    mfc2006 said:
    Saw an article over the weekend saying that the average US home price jumped up by almost 100k since 2019. We just finished some massive renovations to our house and had out realtor come by for an estimated property valuation. She said she list it for $150k+ more than we paid for it in 2017 and my jaw hit the damn floor. She said it would sell quickly with a bidding war. Our next door neighbor just sold their home (3 days after listing it) and got 100k over asking without any renovations. CRAZY.
    It makes me wonder how people raising kids on like $60,000/yr can afford to live anywhere.  I see that the 2021 median HH income was about $75,000...so half of all households earn less than that. 
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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 4,428
    edited February 8
    bbiggs said:
    The outbound states tend to be blue and have cold weather while the inbound tend to be red and have less cold weather. Even when the weather is against the grain (Idaho, Utah - Hawaii), it's red states that are gaining and pretty much blue that are losing (Louisiana the notable exception, probably for economic reasons). I think it's a reflection of where companies are moving (red states tend to give them tax breaks) along with how growingingly conservative the country is becoming.

    It's showing that conservative principles of low taxes (particularly low corporate taxes) and corporate-friendly laws (e.g., right-to-work) are probably more successful than liberal principles. I say this as a liberal. This might be especially true now that people are more mobile. How many people even a generation ago were going to move from Massachusetts to Nevada?  I do think that the link underplays (doesn't mention) weather, though.

    Red states are either showing they have a better model or they're racing to the bottom. Probably a bit of both.
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,021
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    Institutional investors, private equity and foreign wealth funds, not to mention AB&B and VRBO. But sure, blame it all on the “other” and defund the police. Oh, and that pesky pandemic that shook up the office world.
    Sure, those are contributing factors that you mention.  Are you saying that the pesky pandemic shaking up the office world is not?  That was a huge driving force of housing demand, which coupled with low inventory helped to drive up prices.  That's what this thread is about; "housing prices."  Also, it is very easy to look up inflow and outflow of states.  There are certain states that are losing residents on a large scale, mine being one.  The reasons can be debated, but there is also data on "the why" from polls of outgoing residents.  This stuff is pretty cut and dry.

    Yes, I’m saying the pandemic shaking up the office world and people having the ability to work from just about anywhere has also contributed.

    Links to your polling data and in flow/out flow data would be appreciated.

    Do you believe the reasons I stated don’t contribute to housing prices or a reduction in inventory?
    I absolutely think your points were contributors and I stated that in my initial post.  I’ll post links regarding state inflow/outflow later. 
    In my dead brain cell addled brain, I missed that part. My bad.

    I knew a landlord who had 4, 3 family homes. He lived in one unit and his MIL lived in another unit across the street. The other 10 units he AB&B'ed/VRBO'ed. Thats 10 units taken off the market by one guy in one market. He made more income in 10-14 days of short-term rental than he did if he rented for the month. Between medical residents, travelling nurses, college kids looking to host parties and sex traffikers, he had no problem exceeding what he could get on a monthly rental income basis. Prior to buying real estate and being a AB&B'er/VRBO'er, he was a software developer.

    I'll look at your link in more detail when I can figure out how to make the print size larger.
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  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,746
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    Institutional investors, private equity and foreign wealth funds, not to mention AB&B and VRBO. But sure, blame it all on the “other” and defund the police. Oh, and that pesky pandemic that shook up the office world.
    Sure, those are contributing factors that you mention.  Are you saying that the pesky pandemic shaking up the office world is not?  That was a huge driving force of housing demand, which coupled with low inventory helped to drive up prices.  That's what this thread is about; "housing prices."  Also, it is very easy to look up inflow and outflow of states.  There are certain states that are losing residents on a large scale, mine being one.  The reasons can be debated, but there is also data on "the why" from polls of outgoing residents.  This stuff is pretty cut and dry.

    Yes, I’m saying the pandemic shaking up the office world and people having the ability to work from just about anywhere has also contributed.

    Links to your polling data and in flow/out flow data would be appreciated.

    Do you believe the reasons I stated don’t contribute to housing prices or a reduction in inventory?
    I absolutely think your points were contributors and I stated that in my initial post.  I’ll post links regarding state inflow/outflow later. 
    In my dead brain cell addled brain, I missed that part. My bad.

    I knew a landlord who had 4, 3 family homes. He lived in one unit and his MIL lived in another unit across the street. The other 10 units he AB&B'ed/VRBO'ed. Thats 10 units taken off the market by one guy in one market. He made more income in 10-14 days of short-term rental than he did if he rented for the month. Between medical residents, travelling nurses, college kids looking to host parties and sex traffikers, he had no problem exceeding what he could get on a monthly rental income basis. Prior to buying real estate and being a AB&B'er/VRBO'er, he was a software developer.

    I'll look at your link in more detail when I can figure out how to make the print size larger.
    No worries.
    Investor purchases are definitely squeezing out first time buyers and contributing to the lack of inventory.  No question about it.  Lack of affordable housing for first-timers (and renters for that matter) is a real problem.
    I didn't realize the font was miniature size.  I just did a quick copy/paste from my phone.  It's actually pretty interesting data so I'll see if I can get a better/larger image and paste it.


  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,743
    Institutional investors, private equity and foreign wealth funds, not to mention AB&B and VRBO. But sure, blame it all on the “other” and defund the police. Oh, and that pesky pandemic that shook up the office world.
    But somehow the housing costs continue to rise in these disaster zones. Portland has been burnt to the ground, yet housing prices continue to be nuts. 
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,743
    OnWis97 said:
    bbiggs said:
    The outbound states tend to be blue and have cold weather while the inbound tend to be red and have less cold weather. Even when the weather is against the grain (Idaho, Utah - Hawaii), it's red states that are gaining and pretty much blue that are losing (Louisiana the notable exception, probably for economic reasons). I think it's a reflection of where companies are moving (red states tend to give them tax breaks) along with how growingingly conservative the country is becoming.

    It's showing that conservative principles of low taxes (particularly low corporate taxes) and corporate-friendly laws (e.g., right-to-work) are probably more successful than liberal principles. I say this as a liberal. This might be especially true now that people are more mobile. How many people even a generation ago were going to move from Massachusetts to Nevada?  I do think that the link underplays (doesn't mention) weather, though.

    Red states are either showing they have a better model or they're racing to the bottom. Probably a bit of both.
    If you include the other 30 states, the red vs blue dynamic doesn’t hold up as well. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,021
    OnWis97 said:
    bbiggs said:
    The outbound states tend to be blue and have cold weather while the inbound tend to be red and have less cold weather. Even when the weather is against the grain (Idaho, Utah - Hawaii), it's red states that are gaining and pretty much blue that are losing (Louisiana the notable exception, probably for economic reasons). I think it's a reflection of where companies are moving (red states tend to give them tax breaks) along with how growingingly conservative the country is becoming.

    It's showing that conservative principles of low taxes (particularly low corporate taxes) and corporate-friendly laws (e.g., right-to-work) are probably more successful than liberal principles. I say this as a liberal. This might be especially true now that people are more mobile. How many people even a generation ago were going to move from Massachusetts to Nevada?  I do think that the link underplays (doesn't mention) weather, though.

    Red states are either showing they have a better model or they're racing to the bottom. Probably a bit of both.
    If you include the other 30 states, the red vs blue dynamic doesn’t hold up as well. 
    I took the 10 In/Out states and made my own "quality of life" criteria and compared them. Here were my categories:

    Quality of Life Category
    % without Health Insurance
    % Population by Race, White
    % of Children in Poverty
    Return on Tax Dollars ($ back for $ paid)
    Life Expectancy
    Murder Rate, per 100K
    Violent Crime Rate, per 100K
    # of Women Who Die in Childbirth, per 100K live births
    Median Income
    Average SAT Scores, combined
    2021 Unemployment Rate
    Firearms Assault Rate per 100K

    Which ones, on average, do you think came out on top in every category? The In or Out states? There was only one category where the In states performed better. I guess it depends on what you believe is important to your quality of life?

    Here were my sources as I didn't want to spend a week on it.

    Sources
    Health Insurance Coverage of the Total Population | KFF
    US States by Race 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)
    Child poverty statistics in the U.S. (kidscount.org)
    Which State Budgets Rely on the Most Federal Aid | MoneyGeek.com
    Life Expectancy in the US by State | TitleMax
    Stats of the States - Homicide Mortality (cdc.gov)
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  • ZodZod Posts: 8,790
    Not much different here in Canada.  Same stuff going on:

    1) Immigration seems to have exceed our capacity to build, which leads to shortages.  Stuck in a catch 22, because we need more working age people paying taxes to try and keep our social programs afloat.

    2) Properties are getting bought up as investments.  Not just to flip, but to generate cash flows.  Gobbled up by individuals and corporations, so percentage of homes available to people needing a primary residence reduces.

    3) Low Interest Rates

    4) Where I live is desirable so contant migration of people from other parts of Canada.

    My house has pretty much doubled in value in 7 years.   It's insane. 

    I'm worried about younger generations.  In addition to building more, I think we need to curb investment.  Reduce how many residential properties an individual can own, and ban corporate ownership all together.  Otherwise I think we shift from an ownership economy to a rental one which isn't great.


  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,305
    The whole housing issues these days seems like either a reflection of the widening gap between the "haves and the have nots" or a cause of it or both.  I went through some years being semi-homeless years in the mid 90's and it was tough climbing out of that hole then.  Today, it would be difficult to the extreme.  This is evidenced by the huge rise in homelessness.  It's increasing rapidly here in the small city of Placerville, and it's growing like wildfire a little less than an hour from here in Sacramento.
    Zod said:
    Not much different here in Canada.  Same stuff going on:

    1) Immigration seems to have exceed our capacity to build, which leads to shortages.  Stuck in a catch 22, because we need more working age people paying taxes to try and keep our social programs afloat.

    2) Properties are getting bought up as investments.  Not just to flip, but to generate cash flows.  Gobbled up by individuals and corporations, so percentage of homes available to people needing a primary residence reduces.

    3) Low Interest Rates

    4) Where I live is desirable so contant migration of people from other parts of Canada.

    My house has pretty much doubled in value in 7 years.   It's insane. 

    I'm worried about younger generations.  In addition to building more, I think we need to curb investment.  Reduce how many residential properties an individual can own, and ban corporate ownership all together.  Otherwise I think we shift from an ownership economy to a rental one which isn't great.


    Well said, Zod, I agree, 
    And rentals too are going crazy high.  I just found out a friend of mine is paying $1600 a month for a basic two bed room apartment.  She uses one  room for her office.  But she's also in her early 70's and the chances of her owning her own home are getting slim.  With rents like that, how do you ever stop working?  It's super concerning. 
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • ZodZod Posts: 8,790
    brianlux said:
    The whole housing issues these days seems like either a reflection of the widening gap between the "haves and the have nots" or a cause of it or both.  I went through some years being semi-homeless years in the mid 90's and it was tough climbing out of that hole then.  Today, it would be difficult to the extreme.  This is evidenced by the huge rise in homelessness.  It's increasing rapidly here in the small city of Placerville, and it's growing like wildfire a little less than an hour from here in Sacramento.
    Zod said:
    Not much different here in Canada.  Same stuff going on:

    1) Immigration seems to have exceed our capacity to build, which leads to shortages.  Stuck in a catch 22, because we need more working age people paying taxes to try and keep our social programs afloat.

    2) Properties are getting bought up as investments.  Not just to flip, but to generate cash flows.  Gobbled up by individuals and corporations, so percentage of homes available to people needing a primary residence reduces.

    3) Low Interest Rates

    4) Where I live is desirable so contant migration of people from other parts of Canada.

    My house has pretty much doubled in value in 7 years.   It's insane. 

    I'm worried about younger generations.  In addition to building more, I think we need to curb investment.  Reduce how many residential properties an individual can own, and ban corporate ownership all together.  Otherwise I think we shift from an ownership economy to a rental one which isn't great.


    Well said, Zod, I agree, 
    And rentals too are going crazy high.  I just found out a friend of mine is paying $1600 a month for a basic two bed room apartment.  She uses one  room for her office.  But she's also in her early 70's and the chances of her owning her own home are getting slim.  With rents like that, how do you ever stop working?  It's super concerning. 

    It depends.  If rent is 1600 a month, you probably need $3000 just to get by without too much entertainment or discretionary.  Government programs, if you worked a decent career might tap out at around $1500, so you really did need to save up while working to have some cash flow from investments.

    Problem is if you didn't work full time making a decent wage then your CPP isn't going to be great, and you probably didn't save.

    I think the toughest with older people was women who stayed at home to raise the kids.  It was a cultural normal decades ago, but now it's a rarity.  If the spouse of the stay at home mom didn't plan well financially and they pass.   They kind of leave the spouse up shit creek.

    I guess that's the thing.  It'll be different for younger people, but if your older, into retirement, and you have no savings and didn't buy a place, you either didn't plan very well, or had a series of unfortunate circumstances occur.

    The hard part is technically the seniors of today lived through better economic circumstances that the youth of today will ever see :(
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 34,293
    Some really good pints in here.

    Silly question.  Tent cities and extreme homelessness are in Democratic run states only?  I live in NY traveled in Cali and Seattle and saw this.  Florida, Maine, Connecticut, nodda.

    Texas a few years back i didn't see any of the sort either.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    The whole housing issues these days seems like either a reflection of the widening gap between the "haves and the have nots" or a cause of it or both.  I went through some years being semi-homeless years in the mid 90's and it was tough climbing out of that hole then.  Today, it would be difficult to the extreme.  This is evidenced by the huge rise in homelessness.  It's increasing rapidly here in the small city of Placerville, and it's growing like wildfire a little less than an hour from here in Sacramento.
    Zod said:
    Not much different here in Canada.  Same stuff going on:

    1) Immigration seems to have exceed our capacity to build, which leads to shortages.  Stuck in a catch 22, because we need more working age people paying taxes to try and keep our social programs afloat.

    2) Properties are getting bought up as investments.  Not just to flip, but to generate cash flows.  Gobbled up by individuals and corporations, so percentage of homes available to people needing a primary residence reduces.

    3) Low Interest Rates

    4) Where I live is desirable so contant migration of people from other parts of Canada.

    My house has pretty much doubled in value in 7 years.   It's insane. 

    I'm worried about younger generations.  In addition to building more, I think we need to curb investment.  Reduce how many residential properties an individual can own, and ban corporate ownership all together.  Otherwise I think we shift from an ownership economy to a rental one which isn't great.


    Well said, Zod, I agree, 
    And rentals too are going crazy high.  I just found out a friend of mine is paying $1600 a month for a basic two bed room apartment.  She uses one  room for her office.  But she's also in her early 70's and the chances of her owning her own home are getting slim.  With rents like that, how do you ever stop working?  It's super concerning. 
    In Ontario if you own a home your sitting on a nice little nest egg if you choose to sell and move to an apartment…

    bought my home in 2018 and I have gained 120 grand in value…and increasing.

    Its nothing for people to receive 10 bids on their house…all blind bidding.


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 34,293
    brianlux said:
    The whole housing issues these days seems like either a reflection of the widening gap between the "haves and the have nots" or a cause of it or both.  I went through some years being semi-homeless years in the mid 90's and it was tough climbing out of that hole then.  Today, it would be difficult to the extreme.  This is evidenced by the huge rise in homelessness.  It's increasing rapidly here in the small city of Placerville, and it's growing like wildfire a little less than an hour from here in Sacramento.
    Zod said:
    Not much different here in Canada.  Same stuff going on:

    1) Immigration seems to have exceed our capacity to build, which leads to shortages.  Stuck in a catch 22, because we need more working age people paying taxes to try and keep our social programs afloat.

    2) Properties are getting bought up as investments.  Not just to flip, but to generate cash flows.  Gobbled up by individuals and corporations, so percentage of homes available to people needing a primary residence reduces.

    3) Low Interest Rates

    4) Where I live is desirable so contant migration of people from other parts of Canada.

    My house has pretty much doubled in value in 7 years.   It's insane. 

    I'm worried about younger generations.  In addition to building more, I think we need to curb investment.  Reduce how many residential properties an individual can own, and ban corporate ownership all together.  Otherwise I think we shift from an ownership economy to a rental one which isn't great.


    Well said, Zod, I agree, 
    And rentals too are going crazy high.  I just found out a friend of mine is paying $1600 a month for a basic two bed room apartment.  She uses one  room for her office.  But she's also in her early 70's and the chances of her owning her own home are getting slim.  With rents like that, how do you ever stop working?  It's super concerning. 
    In Ontario if you own a home your sitting on a nice little nest egg if you choose to sell and move to an apartment…

    bought my home in 2018 and I have gained 120 grand in value…and increasing.

    Its nothing for people to receive 10 bids on their house…all blind bidding.


    From what I understand those blind bids are companies.

    It's almost like shill bidding on ebay.  It's nuts.
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 14,306
    Some really good pints in here.

    Silly question.  Tent cities and extreme homelessness are in Democratic run states only?  I live in NY traveled in Cali and Seattle and saw this.  Florida, Maine, Connecticut, nodda.

    Texas a few years back i didn't see any of the sort either.
    California is far and away #1 in terms of homeless population and NY is a very strong #2.
    However, Florida and Texas are #3 and #4. So, while they may not have tent cities (though I think Miami area has had some at least in the past), there are plenty of homeless folks there.

    Homeless Population by State 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)
    This weekend we rock Portland
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