Want do you think is the best and worst decision the band has made over their career?

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Comments

  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,676
    edited January 2022
    1ThoughtKnown said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    igotid88 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    igotid88 said:
    OceansJenny said:
    igotid88 said:
    Habit4me said:
    Controversial hot take:

    Best: The creative writing process (non lyrics - I'm talking the music/riffs/instruments)

    Worst: Eddie taking primary lead on creative writing process 
    I don't think he took the lead. I think he wants them to contribute more.
    Ed still steers the ship. 

    The other guys do contribute - they have mentioned many times that everyone brings their work in and they decide if they want to move a piece forward. I still get the sense that Ed had final veto though, based on whether something sits well with him at the time (gut feeling).

    Remember Stone trying again and again to get someone interested in (I think) the G2F riff?
    In Hiding I believe. I think mostly because he's the main lyricist. I don't think he went in saying "I'm the captain now". Like most people are making it out to be.

    The dude decided to take a higher percentage of the album profits than the rest of the band in the 90s -- how is that not a "i'm the captain now" ?

    Or am I misremembering Kim Neelys book?
    He writes most of the lyrics. That's how it usually goes. Plus the music. Then yes he's going to get more. My point was that he's not telling the other band members to shut up and only play my songs. They're the ones are deferring most of it to him. And plus you guys crap on Stone's contributions the last few albums. 
    KISS split everything compoetely equal. 

    Also, refering to the book - it didn’t have to do with percentage of lyrics written like you guys claim. 
    KISS is far from the only band to have done this. 

    I have to say that was the one nugget from that book which really stuck out.  The uneven split of the pot seems to somewhat contradict the perceived ethos of the band (EV in particular). I give Stone, Mike and Jeff and to a lesser extent, Matt most of the credit for the longevity of the band. 
    I also thought EV’s reasoning behind getting the larger cut was pretty weak and demonstrated a “rock star” mentality he was vehemently trying to admonish. To me, it reeked of self-importance.  Having said that, if the band are all good with it, then I don’t worry about it. It’s kind of like a swinger couple, I highly doubt that type of arrangement would work for me, but who am I to tell another couple how to operate their marriage? 
    I know. KISS just stuck in my head. In how surprisingly fair, democratic and "we want it to be like The Beatles were everyone sings and contributes!" they were in the beginning. 

    And yes, the one think I remember from the book is that part. Because I found it baffling. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    edited January 2022
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    1ThoughtKnown said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    igotid88 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    igotid88 said:
    OceansJenny said:
    igotid88 said:
    Habit4me said:
    Controversial hot take:

    Best: The creative writing process (non lyrics - I'm talking the music/riffs/instruments)

    Worst: Eddie taking primary lead on creative writing process 
    I don't think he took the lead. I think he wants them to contribute more.
    Ed still steers the ship. 

    The other guys do contribute - they have mentioned many times that everyone brings their work in and they decide if they want to move a piece forward. I still get the sense that Ed had final veto though, based on whether something sits well with him at the time (gut feeling).

    Remember Stone trying again and again to get someone interested in (I think) the G2F riff?
    In Hiding I believe. I think mostly because he's the main lyricist. I don't think he went in saying "I'm the captain now". Like most people are making it out to be.

    The dude decided to take a higher percentage of the album profits than the rest of the band in the 90s -- how is that not a "i'm the captain now" ?

    Or am I misremembering Kim Neelys book?
    He writes most of the lyrics. That's how it usually goes. Plus the music. Then yes he's going to get more. My point was that he's not telling the other band members to shut up and only play my songs. They're the ones are deferring most of it to him. And plus you guys crap on Stone's contributions the last few albums. 
    KISS split everything compoetely equal. 

    Also, refering to the book - it didn’t have to do with percentage of lyrics written like you guys claim. 
    KISS is far from the only band to have done this. 

    I have to say that was the one nugget from that book which really stuck out.  The uneven split of the pot seems to somewhat contradict the perceived ethos of the band (EV in particular). I give Stone, Mike and Jeff and to a lesser extent, Matt most of the credit for the longevity of the band. 
    I also thought EV’s reasoning behind getting the larger cut was pretty weak and demonstrated a “rock star” mentality he was vehemently trying to admonish. To me, it reeked of self-importance.  Having said that, if the band are all good with it, then I don’t worry about it. It’s kind of like a swinger couple, I highly doubt that type of arrangement would work for me, but who am I to tell another couple how to operate their marriage? 
    I know. KISS just stuck in my head. In how surprisingly fair, democratic and "we want it to be like The Beatles were everyone sings and contributes!" they were in the beginning. 

    And yes, the one think I remember from the book is that part. Because I found it baffling. 
    Sure. Are all Kiss fans this delusional?  Not in the army. 
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,238
    Worst: Platinum Tickets
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,676
    1ThoughtKnown said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    1ThoughtKnown said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    igotid88 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    igotid88 said:
    OceansJenny said:
    igotid88 said:
    Habit4me said:
    Controversial hot take:

    Best: The creative writing process (non lyrics - I'm talking the music/riffs/instruments)

    Worst: Eddie taking primary lead on creative writing process 
    I don't think he took the lead. I think he wants them to contribute more.
    Ed still steers the ship. 

    The other guys do contribute - they have mentioned many times that everyone brings their work in and they decide if they want to move a piece forward. I still get the sense that Ed had final veto though, based on whether something sits well with him at the time (gut feeling).

    Remember Stone trying again and again to get someone interested in (I think) the G2F riff?
    In Hiding I believe. I think mostly because he's the main lyricist. I don't think he went in saying "I'm the captain now". Like most people are making it out to be.

    The dude decided to take a higher percentage of the album profits than the rest of the band in the 90s -- how is that not a "i'm the captain now" ?

    Or am I misremembering Kim Neelys book?
    He writes most of the lyrics. That's how it usually goes. Plus the music. Then yes he's going to get more. My point was that he's not telling the other band members to shut up and only play my songs. They're the ones are deferring most of it to him. And plus you guys crap on Stone's contributions the last few albums. 
    KISS split everything compoetely equal. 

    Also, refering to the book - it didn’t have to do with percentage of lyrics written like you guys claim. 
    KISS is far from the only band to have done this. 

    I have to say that was the one nugget from that book which really stuck out.  The uneven split of the pot seems to somewhat contradict the perceived ethos of the band (EV in particular). I give Stone, Mike and Jeff and to a lesser extent, Matt most of the credit for the longevity of the band. 
    I also thought EV’s reasoning behind getting the larger cut was pretty weak and demonstrated a “rock star” mentality he was vehemently trying to admonish. To me, it reeked of self-importance.  Having said that, if the band are all good with it, then I don’t worry about it. It’s kind of like a swinger couple, I highly doubt that type of arrangement would work for me, but who am I to tell another couple how to operate their marriage? 
    I know. KISS just stuck in my head. In how surprisingly fair, democratic and "we want it to be like The Beatles were everyone sings and contributes!" they were in the beginning. 

    And yes, the one think I remember from the book is that part. Because I found it baffling. 
    Sure. Are all Kiss fans this delusional?  Not in the army. 
    I don't know what this means?

    But yes. Unmasked is unrated.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • MagnumPJ
    MagnumPJ Posts: 80
    mcgruff10 said:
    Worst: Platinum Tickets
    this.
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,301
    Ed deserves more money than the rest of the group.  He is the one that can’t go out in public without being mobbed (at least back in the day).  He is the face of the band and feels the most pressure because of it.  Anyone in the band could be replaced and it could go forward except Ed.  

    People act like MLB was going somewhere with a singer who belonged in the 80’s.  
  • darthvedder
    darthvedder Posts: 2,686
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OPp0MyQfoM

  • igotid88
    igotid88 Posts: 28,821
    mcgruff10 said:
    Worst: Platinum Tickets
    I don't know if that was their decision 
    I miss igotid88
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,676
    bootlegger10 said:
    Ed deserves more money than the rest of the group.  He is the one that can’t go out in public without being mobbed (at least back in the day).  He is the face of the band and feels the most pressure because of it.  Anyone in the band could be replaced and it could go forward except Ed.  

    People act like MLB was going somewhere with a singer who belonged in the 80’s.  
    It wouldn’t even have started without Stone Gossards initial song ideas. He should get extra for that for life. The ”I wrote Alive” kickback. 

    People act like Eddie Vedder was going somewhere surfing in San Diego.  


    The Friends cast demanded the same salary through their ten season run. Even with Jennifer Aniston getting the most attention. Including from the studio who thought she deserved more money and spotlight than the rest. 

    So every Friend made the same money for the last episode. But Eddie made more than the rest of the band from the episode playing Yellow Ledbetter. 

    To each their own, but Friends > Pearl Jam in this scenario. Less market economy capitalism within that group of legends. Pure rock and roll. 


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • apirk72
    apirk72 Posts: 506
    It’s not even close to the same thing.  The cast of a tv show all do the same thing act.  If one of them directed or wrote they would get paid more then the others. Also, they work on salary and have contracts, NBC decided how much they got paid.  So when they were fighting to get paid the same they were fighting a network, not each other.  The whole these people do it so Pearl Jam should are all such terrible arguments.
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,676
    apirk72 said:
    It’s not even close to the same thing.  The cast of a tv show all do the same thing act.  If one of them directed or wrote they would get paid more then the others. Also, they work on salary and have contracts, NBC decided how much they got paid.  So when they were fighting to get paid the same they were fighting a network, not each other.  The whole these people do it so Pearl Jam should are all such terrible arguments.
    You are just making up arbitrary differences.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • on2legs
    on2legs Posts: 16,105
    edited January 2022
    apirk72 said:
    It’s not even close to the same thing.  The cast of a tv show all do the same thing act.  If one of them directed or wrote they would get paid more then the others. Also, they work on salary and have contracts, NBC decided how much they got paid.  So when they were fighting to get paid the same they were fighting a network, not each other.  The whole these people do it so Pearl Jam should are all such terrible arguments.
    To be fair… Stone always told Ed “ I'll be there for you (When the rain starts to pour).”

    😂
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2025: Raleigh 2


  • OceansJenny
    OceansJenny Manhattan, NY Posts: 3,411
    Falling Down said:
    OceansJenny said:
    EV admitted in his last interview that he took more control during Vitalogy as he felt like he was, like it or not, the face of the band. So he wanted the songs to sound like they were his, not someone else’s.
    And it resulted in my favorite PJ album 
    Same! But it was also a product of what the band creatively brought to the table at the time, even if EV steered the ship.
    DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
  • OceansJenny
    OceansJenny Manhattan, NY Posts: 3,411
    mcgruff10 said:
    Worst: Platinum Tickets
    I was just thinking to myself that this is the new “worst” on my list. But PJ as a band hasn’t done this yet so we will see if they follow suit.
    DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
  • igotid88
    igotid88 Posts: 28,821
    OceansJenny said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Worst: Platinum Tickets
    I was just thinking to myself that this is the new “worst” on my list. But PJ as a band hasn’t done this yet so we will see if they follow suit.
    Yea until they charge $500 for front row seats. Then you can say it's the worst
    I miss igotid88
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,676
    If they did. People on here would defend it with ”well are you the same person that you were in your 20s?!?!”
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • igotid88
    igotid88 Posts: 28,821
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    If they did. People on here would defend it with ”well are you the same person that you were in your 20s?!?!”
    Lots of solo artists are. Many newer artists are. I'm not saying I would like it. But do you make the same you did 30 years ago?
    I miss igotid88
  • on2legs
    on2legs Posts: 16,105
    They can’t be making much money off record sales these days.  Even though I would hate it, I couldn’t blame them if they charged $500 for a front row seat. 
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2025: Raleigh 2


  • mbowers
    mbowers Posts: 109
    on2legs said:
    They can’t be making much money off record sales these days.  Even though I would hate it, I couldn’t blame them if they charged $500 for a front row seat. 
    Wait, only $500 for guaranteed front row?  Sign me up for a whole leg…
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,690
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    If they did. People on here would defend it with ”well are you the same person that you were in your 20s?!?!”

    I had to buy a ticket from a scalper in order to see them in my 20s.

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