14 years and counting...

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  • RunIntoTheRain
    RunIntoTheRain Texas Posts: 1,033

    Video of situation at Del Rio Texas right now.
    Wow. That's a lot of people. I applaud WCK for their help.



  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,024
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don’t see it as a huge leap to understand there are more immigrants in facilities now than a year ago, so yeah I predict they are more crowded. I haven’t seen any claims of improvements or changes that got so many so riled up a year ago. I don’t understand why that’s difficult to predict? I guess we’ll just disagree and you can believe they are fancy resorts now.

    Your articles, at least the ones I read, point out the difference between death and concentration camps. So sure, I’ll give you that they can be called a concentration camp under the technical sense. But the common use of that phrase is in comparison to Nazi germany and the death camps. And someone like AOC making false claims about being forced to drink from the toilet and calling it a concentration camp, I’m not giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was strictly speaking in a technical sense. The fact is they were outraged a year ago about chain link fences, the plumbing, the foil blankets, crowded conditions, etc.. And for some reason that all became okay in January. No more outrage over that. No more calling it a concentration camp. And with higher numbers and no press allowed to cover it too.
    You posted a graph that showed “migrant encounters,” which I believe are different than “migrant detentions,” according to DHS definitions but I digress. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume they all resulted in detentions, probably. You then asked what changed? From a high of a little over 200K in the final months of the Clinton Administration to ups and downs but with peaks around 150K during Bush’s two terms to peaks of 50K during  Obama’s two terms ( that black guy sucked on immigration because he probably looked the other way so they could all come in and vote Democrat) to the north of 130K peak during POOTWH’s term. So, what changed over the course of 20 years that the first reference to “concentration camps” would be made (I don’t recall a similar comparison being made during Clinton’s, Bush’s or Obama’s terms)?

    Do you think it was purposeful defunding of detention centers, closings (to fund the wall) and internal policy changes implemented by POOTWH’s Administration to treat people like shit, more akin to “concentration camps,” (separating children from their parent(s), lack of or slow walking due process, held without hearings, reductions in immigration judges, and purposefully denying food, medical care, running water) in violation of court ordered agreement and law? Do you not see the difference? Dems had to go to court to gain access to the facilities because word was out about conditions and POOTWH fired his head of DHS when she publicly admitted they were failing and gave the reasons why.

    You haven’t seen or heard of any changes since 2018-19?  Biden ended separating kids within 30 days of taking office. Probably doesn’t count though, right?

    Did you read the CRS Report I linked? Probably not. It describes what the POOTWH Administration did and what changes they made. Changes that were detrimental and created the mess to begin with.Typical Con tactic now, create a crisis and then scream how it’s everyone else’s fault. How long did we hear about the crisis of the caravans? What did POOTWH do to prepare for them? Nothing, that’s what.

    But because Biden is POTUS, it’s probably worse. Same-same, unless you think POOTWH was outstanding on the immigration issue? 

    AND LETS NOT FORGET THE FORCED HYSTERECTOMIES AT A PRIVATE DETENTION CENTER IN GEORGIA NOR THE PHYSICAL ABUSE RAMPANT AT A SHERIFF’s DEPARTMENT DETENTION CENTER IN MASSACHUSETTS. Both of which have been reportedly closed since Biden took office. 

    I didn't say because its Biden its probably worse. I said because they are seeing more people crossing, which will lead to more crowded conditions. That would probably be true no matter who was in office. 
    Also my comment wasn't about Trump vs Biden. It was about how we heard so much criticism about the horrible conditions. And now the press is restricted on what they can even see and those same people don't seem as upset. Again, I'm not debating Trump vs Biden. Just pointing out the change in attitude from some people. Where's AOC saying they're drinking out of toilets? Where's people saying they're locked up in cages like animals again? I'm pretty sure the plumbing hasn't changed and they still use chain link. 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,086
    US Department of State’s annual report to Congress on the plan for the next fiscal year’s refugee settlement program if you’re interested.

    https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Proposed-Refugee-Admissions-for-FY22-Report-to-Congress.pdf
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,172
    except more are being turned back immediately than allowed entry
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,814
    Haiti can't catch a break...

    I am surprised that they are coming through Mexico.  Why not to Florida.  Isn't that closer?
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,172
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Haiti can't catch a break...

    I am surprised that they are coming through Mexico.  Why not to Florida.  Isn't that closer?

    those are primarily Haitians who left long ago. Most articles say after 2010 earthquake. Down into S America. Coming up through C America
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  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited September 2021
    The buck stops at Joe.  What a mess…:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-haitian-migrants-swimming-into-mexico-avoid-deported-us-authorities-2021-9

    Whips, Sleepy Joe pushing to continue Trump’s “Title 42” expulsions…WTF!
    Whips being used on black people by federal customs authorities cannot be good for the approval ratings, so no wonder they are trying to keep the media away

    US Customs and Border Patrol agents were photographed using whips to prevent Haitian migrants from joining the other Haitian migrants in Del Rio, Texas.



    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,814
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Haiti can't catch a break...

    I am surprised that they are coming through Mexico.  Why not to Florida.  Isn't that closer?

    those are primarily Haitians who left long ago. Most articles say after 2010 earthquake. Down into S America. Coming up through C America
    It took them 10 years to travel up the South America?

    Man that is one angle I find hard to believe.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,599
    edited September 2021
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Biden’s and the Dems’ immigration policy.

    https://joebiden.com/immigration/

    POOTWH’s and repubs’? “We’ll protect our whiteness.”

    https://sgp.fas.org/crs/homesec/R45266.pdf

    But you know, it’s probably worse.


    The detainment centers that I was referring to, have not improved or changed, and are holding more people. So yes, probably worse. But we’re not allowed to see, so it’s just a guess.
    Maybe it’s better? At least Biden isn’t separating children from their parent(s) so by default it’s “better.”
    Again, I was referring to the conditions that were frequently compared to the Holocaust, not the policies. You think they improved and that’s why it was kept secret and it took months for journalist allowed in? 
    I don’t think that’s what you meant. You threw out AOC and stated conditions are “probably worse” but admitted we don’t really know. So, it’s possible they could be better, right?

    As for AOC and her remarks, seems she wasn’t too far off the mark, according to people who study this stuff. Knowing what we know both pre and post POOTWH, what’s different?

    Hey, but I’m not the smartest 24/7.
    They probably are worse. More coming across means probably more crowded than before. Again, I don’t know because we aren’t allowed to see what’s going on. But you don’t think if they were better they’d be showing us? AOC and many others complained they used chain link, foil emergency blankets, crowded conditions, jail style toilets. What do you think has changed?


    And AOC was ridiculous. She’s way off. Anyone who thinks conditions of detainment centers are like those of the Holocaust needs to take a world history class again and learn what those victims suffered through. I’m sure they would have traded those gas chambers for those standard jail style sink-toilets any day.
    Jeez. According to that chart it seems like things were going great prior to the Trump administration. Let's go back to whatever worked during the Obama years. 
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,086
    mickeyrat said:
    except more are being turned back immediately than allowed entry
    It’s the Administration’s plan for the new fiscal year beginning October 1st and includes legally authorizing, through the established process, 125,000 refugees to be in the US, up from 15,000 in the POOTWH years. It does not include the refugees with special status, Afghans, Iraqis who worked with US forces and other protected groups, or the millions of migrants currently huddled on our borders.
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,814
    PJPOWER said:
    The buck stops at Joe.  What a mess…:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-haitian-migrants-swimming-into-mexico-avoid-deported-us-authorities-2021-9

    Whips, Sleepy Joe pushing to continue Trump’s “Title 42” expulsions…WTF!
    Whips being used on black people by federal customs authorities cannot be good for the approval ratings, so no wonder they are trying to keep the media away

    US Customs and Border Patrol agents were photographed using whips to prevent Haitian migrants from joining the other Haitian migrants in Del Rio, Texas.



    So I saw the video of this.  It's crowd control tactics to control a crowd.  No one was whipped.

    I heard Kamala say she was appalled.

    I'm actually confused on what the border patrol agents' job is anymore.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,172
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Haiti can't catch a break...

    I am surprised that they are coming through Mexico.  Why not to Florida.  Isn't that closer?

    those are primarily Haitians who left long ago. Most articles say after 2010 earthquake. Down into S America. Coming up through C America
    It took them 10 years to travel up the South America?

    Man that is one angle I find hard to believe.

    work. many landed in Rio for the olympics. others found work in Chile.

    So it wasnt a 10 yr journey. But whatever led them to decide now is the time. As with most immigrants, work has to be top of the list or very near so...
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,014
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJPOWER said:
    The buck stops at Joe.  What a mess…:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-haitian-migrants-swimming-into-mexico-avoid-deported-us-authorities-2021-9

    Whips, Sleepy Joe pushing to continue Trump’s “Title 42” expulsions…WTF!
    Whips being used on black people by federal customs authorities cannot be good for the approval ratings, so no wonder they are trying to keep the media away

    US Customs and Border Patrol agents were photographed using whips to prevent Haitian migrants from joining the other Haitian migrants in Del Rio, Texas.



    So I saw the video of this.  It's crowd control tactics to control a crowd.  No one was whipped.

    I heard Kamala say she was appalled.

    I'm actually confused on what the border patrol agents' job is anymore.
    Even an MSNBC anchor went after Harris for being so absent from all of this when she's supposed to be in charge of it. There's currently 16,000 migrants in Del Rio, Texas. 

    'Where Is She?' MSNBC Host Rips Kamala Harris For Being a Miserable Failure on the Border (townhall.com)
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,086
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Haiti can't catch a break...

    I am surprised that they are coming through Mexico.  Why not to Florida.  Isn't that closer?

    those are primarily Haitians who left long ago. Most articles say after 2010 earthquake. Down into S America. Coming up through C America
    It took them 10 years to travel up the South America?

    Man that is one angle I find hard to believe.

    work. many landed in Rio for the olympics. others found work in Chile.

    So it wasnt a 10 yr journey. But whatever led them to decide now is the time. As with most immigrants, work has to be top of the list or very near so...
    Or reunification with family already in the US?
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,172
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mickeyrat said:
    except more are being turned back immediately than allowed entry
    It’s the Administration’s plan for the new fiscal year beginning October 1st and includes legally authorizing, through the established process, 125,000 refugees to be in the US, up from 15,000 in the POOTWH years. It does not include the refugees with special status, Afghans, Iraqis who worked with US forces and other protected groups, or the millions of migrants currently huddled on our borders.

    didnt quote cuz not a fan of that poster but this was in response to assertions that haitians are flooding the country. typical bullshit that gets clarification later.....


    Believe this rise to pre-fuckstick levels was announced early on wasnt it? or plans to do so? campaign promise?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
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    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJPOWER said:
    The buck stops at Joe.  What a mess…:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-haitian-migrants-swimming-into-mexico-avoid-deported-us-authorities-2021-9

    Whips, Sleepy Joe pushing to continue Trump’s “Title 42” expulsions…WTF!
    Whips being used on black people by federal customs authorities cannot be good for the approval ratings, so no wonder they are trying to keep the media away

    US Customs and Border Patrol agents were photographed using whips to prevent Haitian migrants from joining the other Haitian migrants in Del Rio, Texas.



    So I saw the video of this.  It's crowd control tactics to control a crowd.  No one was whipped.

    I heard Kamala say she was appalled.

    I'm actually confused on what the border patrol agents' job is anymore.
    I think they are confused about what their job is anymore too.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,814
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Haiti can't catch a break...

    I am surprised that they are coming through Mexico.  Why not to Florida.  Isn't that closer?

    those are primarily Haitians who left long ago. Most articles say after 2010 earthquake. Down into S America. Coming up through C America
    It took them 10 years to travel up the South America?

    Man that is one angle I find hard to believe.

    work. many landed in Rio for the olympics. others found work in Chile.

    So it wasnt a 10 yr journey. But whatever led them to decide now is the time. As with most immigrants, work has to be top of the list or very near so...
    I still don't see why they didn't just come through Florida?

    When they interview some of them I guess we will find out more on how.

    I'm very interested on that journey.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,086
    mickeyrat said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mickeyrat said:
    except more are being turned back immediately than allowed entry
    It’s the Administration’s plan for the new fiscal year beginning October 1st and includes legally authorizing, through the established process, 125,000 refugees to be in the US, up from 15,000 in the POOTWH years. It does not include the refugees with special status, Afghans, Iraqis who worked with US forces and other protected groups, or the millions of migrants currently huddled on our borders.

    didnt quote cuz not a fan of that poster but this was in response to assertions that haitians are flooding the country. typical bullshit that gets clarification later.....


    Believe this rise to pre-fuckstick levels was announced early on wasnt it? or plans to do so? campaign promise?
    Campaign promise was to raise it to 65,500 but was criticized and agreed to increase it to 125,500, again, for those going through the pre-approval screening process, ie. those who can show a reason for being accepted, may already have family, etc., etc. Its quite extensive and detailed the process that happens. POOTWH gutted just about every aspect of the process, in addition to reducing the numbers allowed in through the process to 15,000.

    If you think ICE and DHS BP were the only agencies that POOTWH fucked with, you'd (general you) would be mistaken. Defunding, reallocating funds, leaving vacant positions open, hiring incompetents and/or loyalists to key positions, etc. You know, like most CEOs of Fortune 500 companies do. Brilliant, brilliance in all its brilliancy.
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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,024
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJPOWER said:
    The buck stops at Joe.  What a mess…:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-haitian-migrants-swimming-into-mexico-avoid-deported-us-authorities-2021-9

    Whips, Sleepy Joe pushing to continue Trump’s “Title 42” expulsions…WTF!
    Whips being used on black people by federal customs authorities cannot be good for the approval ratings, so no wonder they are trying to keep the media away

    US Customs and Border Patrol agents were photographed using whips to prevent Haitian migrants from joining the other Haitian migrants in Del Rio, Texas.



    So I saw the video of this.  It's crowd control tactics to control a crowd.  No one was whipped.

    I heard Kamala say she was appalled.

    I'm actually confused on what the border patrol agents' job is anymore.
    Not to mention there were no whips to begin with.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,814
    mace1229 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJPOWER said:
    The buck stops at Joe.  What a mess…:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-haitian-migrants-swimming-into-mexico-avoid-deported-us-authorities-2021-9

    Whips, Sleepy Joe pushing to continue Trump’s “Title 42” expulsions…WTF!
    Whips being used on black people by federal customs authorities cannot be good for the approval ratings, so no wonder they are trying to keep the media away

    US Customs and Border Patrol agents were photographed using whips to prevent Haitian migrants from joining the other Haitian migrants in Del Rio, Texas.



    So I saw the video of this.  It's crowd control tactics to control a crowd.  No one was whipped.

    I heard Kamala say she was appalled.

    I'm actually confused on what the border patrol agents' job is anymore.
    Not to mention there were no whips to begin with.
    I get where they are coming from in saying "whips". That thing they are whipping/flailing around that directs the horse is what they are talking about.  I don't ride so I don't know what that is called.

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