14 years and counting...

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

Not much talk on immigration lately, but saw this on my news feed:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/09/16/thousands-of-haitian-migrants-are-waiting-in-texas---heres-how-many-tried-to-enter-the-us-in-the-last-year/

Why does Biden hate black people?
https://thehill.com/latino/572588-advocates-in-utter-disbelief-after-biden-resumes-haitian-repatriations

Or is this just another one of those “fake immigration issues”?

In that sense, it's Mexican government policy that's dictating who is allowed to apply for asylum in the United States and who is subjected to Title 42 expulsions

Why post something as inflammatory as "why does biden hate black people?" ? how did you come to that conclusion?

I mean, his political track record has not been all that friendly to black people, so it’s just an assumption.  

Biden’s on it…but I thought “send them back” was inhumane?
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/biden-administration-sends-more-agents-to-crowded-texas-border-crossing-11631988140
“The Biden administration said it is sending additional border agents to a South Texas town where thousands of Haitian migrants are being held under a bridge, as officials prepared to begin flying them back to their home country under a public-health policy allowing for rapid expulsions.”

Halifax2TheMax said:

Biden’s and the Dems’ immigration policy.

https://joebiden.com/immigration/

POOTWH’s and repubs’? “We’ll protect our whiteness.”

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/homesec/R45266.pdf

But you know, it’s probably worse.

The detainment centers that I was referring to, have not improved or changed, and are holding more people. So yes, probably worse. But we’re not allowed to see, so it’s just a guess.

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Biden’s and the Dems’ immigration policy.

https://joebiden.com/immigration/

POOTWH’s and repubs’? “We’ll protect our whiteness.”

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/homesec/R45266.pdf

But you know, it’s probably worse.

The detainment centers that I was referring to, have not improved or changed, and are holding more people. So yes, probably worse. But we’re not allowed to see, so it’s just a guess.

Maybe it’s better? At least Biden isn’t separating children from their parent(s) so by default it’s “better.”

Again, I was referring to the conditions that were frequently compared to the Holocaust, not the policies. You think they improved and that’s why it was kept secret and it took months for journalist allowed in? 

And separating children from their parent(s) was a “condition” of the detention centers under POOTWH. Don’t pretend it wasn’t and was just “policy.”

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

And separating children from their parent(s) was a “condition” of the detention centers under POOTWH. Don’t pretend it wasn’t and was just “policy.”

it was, but the uproar was also about the conditions, and that false outrage-inducing left-wing talking point about drinking out of toilets. 

the separation was the grabbing headline, the conditions was to keep them reading and subsequently outraged. 

I personally think it would be good to know what the conditions are like now. Why is MSM not reporting on that at all anymore? It's almost as if a lot of them only report these things when the "bad guy" does it. 

OAN, Faux and Newsmax could ask Jen Psaki at the next presser. Those repub firebrands in Congress could try to convince their dem counterparts to hold hearings, and maybe make it a bi-partisan effort, heaven forbid. Maybe they really don’t care about the conditions and prefer to express faux outrage? I mean, they previously supported making a less than Ideal situation worse with no intention of making it better so why give them political fodder? Make them work for it like they made the Dems, after all, they violated law, court settlements and past practice and precedent.

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Biden’s and the Dems’ immigration policy.

https://joebiden.com/immigration/

POOTWH’s and repubs’? “We’ll protect our whiteness.”

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/homesec/R45266.pdf

But you know, it’s probably worse.

The detainment centers that I was referring to, have not improved or changed, and are holding more people. So yes, probably worse. But we’re not allowed to see, so it’s just a guess.

Maybe it’s better? At least Biden isn’t separating children from their parent(s) so by default it’s “better.”

Again, I was referring to the conditions that were frequently compared to the Holocaust, not the policies. You think they improved and that’s why it was kept secret and it took months for journalist allowed in? 

I don’t think that’s what you meant. You threw out AOC and stated conditions are “probably worse” but admitted we don’t really know. So, it’s possible they could be better, right?

As for AOC and her remarks, seems she wasn’t too far off the mark, according to people who study this stuff. Knowing what we know both pre and post POOTWH, what’s different?

Hey, but I’m not the smartest 24/7.

They probably are worse. More coming across means probably more crowded than before. Again, I don’t know because we aren’t allowed to see what’s going on. But you don’t think if they were better they’d be showing us? AOC and many others complained they used chain link, foil emergency blankets, crowded conditions, jail style toilets. What do you think has changed?

This mother of a Capitol rioter needs a world history lesson, probably.

One read aloud a letter from a “concerned mother” of a man who’s been denied bail despite a nonviolent offense and, the writer said, has been suffering in prison. “He’s lost his job, lost friends, and is in the process of losing his home. He’s been denied visits from family. His jailers treat these men like scum … I just wanted to let your organization know of the terrible conditions these brave men are being subjected to. Even death-row inmates get haircuts and are allowed to shave. This reminds me of how the Jewish people were treated by the Nazis.” (From the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum website: “The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its allies and collaborators.”)

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/09/the-justice-for-j6-rally-did-not-resemble-january-6/620106/

mace1229 said:

I don’t see it as a huge leap to understand there are more immigrants in facilities now than a year ago, so yeah I predict they are more crowded. I haven’t seen any claims of improvements or changes that got so many so riled up a year ago. I don’t understand why that’s difficult to predict? I guess we’ll just disagree and you can believe they are fancy resorts now.

Your articles, at least the ones I read, point out the difference between death and concentration camps. So sure, I’ll give you that they can be called a concentration camp under the technical sense. But the common use of that phrase is in comparison to Nazi germany and the death camps. And someone like AOC making false claims about being forced to drink from the toilet and calling it a concentration camp, I’m not giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was strictly speaking in a technical sense. The fact is they were outraged a year ago about chain link fences, the plumbing, the foil blankets, crowded conditions, etc.. And for some reason that all became okay in January. No more outrage over that. No more calling it a concentration camp. And with higher numbers and no press allowed to cover it too.

You posted a graph that showed “migrant encounters,” which I believe are different than “migrant detentions,” according to DHS definitions but I digress. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume they all resulted in detentions, probably. You then asked what changed? From a high of a little over 200K in the final months of the Clinton Administration to ups and downs but with peaks around 150K during Bush’s two terms to peaks of 50K during  Obama’s two terms ( that black guy sucked on immigration because he probably looked the other way so they could all come in and vote Democrat) to the north of 130K peak during POOTWH’s term. So, what changed over the course of 20 years that the first reference to “concentration camps” would be made (I don’t recall a similar comparison being made during Clinton’s, Bush’s or Obama’s terms)?

Do you think it was purposeful defunding of detention centers, closings (to fund the wall) and internal policy changes implemented by POOTWH’s Administration to treat people like shit, more akin to “concentration camps,” (separating children from their parent(s), lack of or slow walking due process, held without hearings, reductions in immigration judges, and purposefully denying food, medical care, running water) in violation of court ordered agreement and law? Do you not see the difference? Dems had to go to court to gain access to the facilities because word was out about conditions and POOTWH fired his head of DHS when she publicly admitted they were failing and gave the reasons why.

You haven’t seen or heard of any changes since 2018-19?  Biden ended separating kids within 30 days of taking office. Probably doesn’t count though, right?

Did you read the CRS Report I linked? Probably not. It describes what the POOTWH Administration did and what changes they made. Changes that were detrimental and created the mess to begin with.Typical Con tactic now, create a crisis and then scream how it’s everyone else’s fault. How long did we hear about the crisis of the caravans? What did POOTWH do to prepare for them? Nothing, that’s what.

But because Biden is POTUS, it’s probably worse. Same-same, unless you think POOTWH was outstanding on the immigration issue? 

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

I don’t see it as a huge leap to understand there are more immigrants in facilities now than a year ago, so yeah I predict they are more crowded. I haven’t seen any claims of improvements or changes that got so many so riled up a year ago. I don’t understand why that’s difficult to predict? I guess we’ll just disagree and you can believe they are fancy resorts now.

Your articles, at least the ones I read, point out the difference between death and concentration camps. So sure, I’ll give you that they can be called a concentration camp under the technical sense. But the common use of that phrase is in comparison to Nazi germany and the death camps. And someone like AOC making false claims about being forced to drink from the toilet and calling it a concentration camp, I’m not giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was strictly speaking in a technical sense. The fact is they were outraged a year ago about chain link fences, the plumbing, the foil blankets, crowded conditions, etc.. And for some reason that all became okay in January. No more outrage over that. No more calling it a concentration camp. And with higher numbers and no press allowed to cover it too.

You posted a graph that showed “migrant encounters,” which I believe are different than “migrant detentions,” according to DHS definitions but I digress. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume they all resulted in detentions, probably. You then asked what changed? From a high of a little over 200K in the final months of the Clinton Administration to ups and downs but with peaks around 150K during Bush’s two terms to peaks of 50K during  Obama’s two terms ( that black guy sucked on immigration because he probably looked the other way so they could all come in and vote Democrat) to the north of 130K peak during POOTWH’s term. So, what changed over the course of 20 years that the first reference to “concentration camps” would be made (I don’t recall a similar comparison being made during Clinton’s, Bush’s or Obama’s terms)?

Do you think it was purposeful defunding of detention centers, closings (to fund the wall) and internal policy changes implemented by POOTWH’s Administration to treat people like shit, more akin to “concentration camps,” (separating children from their parent(s), lack of or slow walking due process, held without hearings, reductions in immigration judges, and purposefully denying food, medical care, running water) in violation of court ordered agreement and law? Do you not see the difference? Dems had to go to court to gain access to the facilities because word was out about conditions and POOTWH fired his head of DHS when she publicly admitted they were failing and gave the reasons why.

You haven’t seen or heard of any changes since 2018-19?  Biden ended separating kids within 30 days of taking office. Probably doesn’t count though, right?

Did you read the CRS Report I linked? Probably not. It describes what the POOTWH Administration did and what changes they made. Changes that were detrimental and created the mess to begin with.Typical Con tactic now, create a crisis and then scream how it’s everyone else’s fault. How long did we hear about the crisis of the caravans? What did POOTWH do to prepare for them? Nothing, that’s what.

But because Biden is POTUS, it’s probably worse. Same-same, unless you think POOTWH was outstanding on the immigration issue? 

AND LETS NOT FORGET THE FORCED HYSTERECTOMIES AT A PRIVATE DETENTION CENTER IN GEORGIA NOR THE PHYSICAL ABUSE RAMPANT AT A SHERIFF’s DEPARTMENT DETENTION CENTER IN MASSACHUSETTS. Both of which have been reportedly closed since Biden took office. 

More on “what’s changed:”

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/30/us-new-report-shines-spotlight-abuses-and-growth-immigrant-detention-under-trump

https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/the-trump-administration-weakens-standards-for-ice-detention-facilities/

I didn't say because its Biden its probably worse. I said because they are seeing more people crossing, which will lead to more crowded conditions. That would probably be true no matter who was in office. 
Also my comment wasn't about Trump vs Biden. It was about how we heard so much criticism about the horrible conditions. And now the press is restricted on what they can even see and those same people don't seem as upset. Again, I'm not debating Trump vs Biden. Just pointing out the change in attitude from some people. Where's AOC saying they're drinking out of toilets? Where's people saying they're locked up in cages like animals again? I'm pretty sure the plumbing hasn't changed and they still use chain link. 

except more are being turned back immediately than allowed entry

tempo_n_groove said:

Haiti can't catch a break...

I am surprised that they are coming through Mexico.  Why not to Florida.  Isn't that closer?

those are primarily Haitians who left long ago. Most articles say after 2010 earthquake. Down into S America. Coming up through C America

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Haiti can't catch a break...

I am surprised that they are coming through Mexico.  Why not to Florida.  Isn't that closer?

those are primarily Haitians who left long ago. Most articles say after 2010 earthquake. Down into S America. Coming up through C America

It took them 10 years to travel up the South America?

Man that is one angle I find hard to believe.

mickeyrat said:

except more are being turned back immediately than allowed entry

It’s the Administration’s plan for the new fiscal year beginning October 1st and includes legally authorizing, through the established process, 125,000 refugees to be in the US, up from 15,000 in the POOTWH years. It does not include the refugees with special status, Afghans, Iraqis who worked with US forces and other protected groups, or the millions of migrants currently huddled on our borders.