Hiroshima

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,229
    76 years ago today and even with the Olympics in Japan, ‘Muricans don’t seem to remember. At least I haven’t seen any reporting on it today other than overseas media, mainly in the East. But hey, I’m sure Faux is all over it.

    Pause and reflect.
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    yoshinagato on Twitter quotPraying for nuclear bomb victims at Peace Memorial Park Nagasaki Japan July 141966 JohnColtrane PeaceOnEarth httpstcoAqFXigpA1j httpstcozZzcNLBh8Iquot
    John Coltrane, July 14, 1966 at the Nagasaki Hypocenter Park, Nagasaki, Japan.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,472
    edited August 2021
    Last-12-Exit said:
    Moonpig wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Does the public need to know every detail and every decision that is made during wartime operations?
    No, that's why we are civilians. I don't give a holy hell why they dropped the bombs. I personally don't think that the Japanese would have surrended. Had there been a land invasion, a lot of us wouldn't have been born. We dropped a horrible weapon not once but twice. And then what? War was over. I'm good with that.

    That doesn't mean I want my government to lie, cover up, and destroy documents that make them look less patriotic.

    Dropping 2 atomic bombs onto a civilian population is a war crime, or at least would be considered so if any other country did it. Some are happy to brush it under the carpet and call it a necessary action, for the greater good.

    Flying two planes into 2 buildings is an act of terrorism, some people justify such deeds by looking at American foreign policy.

    Perspective can be a bitch like that some times.

    A war crime? For a weapon that never existed for any other war prior? In 1945, it was not a war crime.
    I have always defended the Empire blowing up Alderaan with this argument.

    KNOWINGLY SLAUGHTERING CIVILIANS WITH THIS SPECIFIC WEAPON HADN'T BEEN TESTED BEFORE!
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,367
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    76 years ago today and even with the Olympics in Japan, ‘Muricans don’t seem to remember. At least I haven’t seen any reporting on it today other than overseas media, mainly in the East. But hey, I’m sure Faux is all over it.

    Pause and reflect.
    What a horrific display of human might. I hope everyone has the privilege of going to Hiroshima, to pay respect to lives lost, and to remember why nuclear weapons should be abolished outright. 
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    EV
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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,889
    The nuclear attacks on Japan were horrible but they happened during a declared war. 

    Pearl Harbor did not.
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    It was estimated that Japan slaughtered 250000 Chinese civilians after the Doolittle raid?  That was early on in the war, Japan may be a great country now…but they weren’t like that during the war.  The bombs ended the war, if Japan was going to surrender, they would have surrendered after the 1st bomb…
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    As horrible as the bombs were, there’s not doubt to me that it saved many more lives, on both sides. Japan was a culture where you die before you surrender, the emperor was divine. They were training kids to fight with sticks in preparation for the invasion. What chance does a kid have with a stick against an army? None, they were going to be sacrificed. Estimates were upwards of a million US casualties, and Japanese casualties would have been much higher.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    edited August 2021
    The two bombings killed massive numbers of civilians who just going about their day and were not involved in the fighting.  I don't see how anyone can justify those actions.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739

    The Asian Holocaust Killed Twice As Many People As The Nazis Did


    https://medium.com/dose/the-asian-holocaust-killed-twice-as-many-people-as-the-nazis-did-877f0a7c664
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,472
    Meltdown99 said:

    The Asian Holocaust Killed Twice As Many People As The Nazis Did


    https://medium.com/dose/the-asian-holocaust-killed-twice-as-many-people-as-the-nazis-did-877f0a7c664
    You've convinced me. Knowingly planning and slaughtering civilians by dropping atombombs on them is a-okey. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,430
    brianlux said:
    The two bombings killed massive numbers of civilians who just going about their day and were not involved in the fighting.  I don't see how anyone can justify those actions.

    how do you feel about allied carpet bombing of germany?


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  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Meltdown99 said:

    The Asian Holocaust Killed Twice As Many People As The Nazis Did


    https://medium.com/dose/the-asian-holocaust-killed-twice-as-many-people-as-the-nazis-did-877f0a7c664
    You've convinced me. Knowingly planning and slaughtering civilians by dropping atombombs on them is a-okey. 
    I’m not trying to convince you of nothing.  

    Both sides were guilty of atrocities…I mean it’s fucking war, where young men died because of power hungry psychos.

    The allies committed far fewer atrocities…
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    The two bombings killed massive numbers of civilians who just going about their day and were not involved in the fighting.  I don't see how anyone can justify those actions.

    how do you feel about allied carpet bombing of germany?



    Same thing- totally fucked up.  I don't support any military action that kills massive numbers of civilians.  If that had happened to us here in the U.S., every one on this board will be howling bloody murder about it.  But when it's those civilian slanty eyed bastards and lousy krauts that got killed its somehow OK. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,905
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Meltdown99 said:

    The Asian Holocaust Killed Twice As Many People As The Nazis Did


    https://medium.com/dose/the-asian-holocaust-killed-twice-as-many-people-as-the-nazis-did-877f0a7c664
    You've convinced me. Knowingly planning and slaughtering civilians by dropping atombombs on them is a-okey. 

    It was a war.   Which is often, it's either them or it's us?   Modern war's have been a bit different.  They've tended to be smaller, and quite often with extremists blending in with a more innocent population.  It feels like WWII was one of the last ones, where it was pretty clear cut.  Germany and Japan were the aggressors, committed countless atrocities, and started a world war. 

    Is it good to drop a nuke on a civilian population?  Not really.   Did the ends justify the means, probably.  Japan surrendered so that mean countless allied and enemy lives were saved from the fight not continuing.  Japan had to surrender so any atrocities they were undertaking would of stopped earlier than had the nukes not been dropped.

    I dunno.  I don't think the nuke solution works now because we have mutually assured destruction.  Back then though... it's like.. we've got the bomb, you can't win, surrender.   Show of force kind of thing. 


  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    If we spent as much time seeking solutions to war as we do justifying war and making it happen, maybe there would be less war, more peace.  
    And of course whenever someone says that, someone else will say there has always been war.  Are we that incapable of changing?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,430
    brianlux said:
    If we spent as much time seeking solutions to war as we do justifying war and making it happen, maybe there would be less war, more peace.  
    And of course whenever someone says that, someone else will say there has always been war.  Are we that incapable of changing?

    yes, brian. apparently we are incapable. history shows us this, no?
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    If we spent as much time seeking solutions to war as we do justifying war and making it happen, maybe there would be less war, more peace.  
    And of course whenever someone says that, someone else will say there has always been war.  Are we that incapable of changing?

    yes, brian. apparently we are incapable. history shows us this, no?

    Yes and no. 
    There are things we have done that were at one time said to be impossible:
    -Running a mile under 4 minutes.
    -Frost a light bulb on the inside.
    -Heavier than air flight.
    -Free climbing El Capitan

    Sure, ending war is a much higher goal, but impossible?  Well, OK, can we at least try and maybe have fewer wars?  I think so.  And if we do that, why not put the bar up even higher!? 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,905
    brianlux said:
    If we spent as much time seeking solutions to war as we do justifying war and making it happen, maybe there would be less war, more peace.  
    And of course whenever someone says that, someone else will say there has always been war.  Are we that incapable of changing?

    Nah, my counterargument would be that the 3 things that historically kept the human population in check have been drastically reduced.  War, Famine, and Disease.  Maybe conflict is a part of human nature as a natural thing to keep our numbers down.   Something we've kept fairly low since WWII (at least no continent multi country wars since then).

    I always wonder, if WWII didn't happen, how many more people would be on the planet right now? 10's of million people would of sparked generations of people, had they not come to a premature end.

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    edited August 2021
    Zod said:
    brianlux said:
    If we spent as much time seeking solutions to war as we do justifying war and making it happen, maybe there would be less war, more peace.  
    And of course whenever someone says that, someone else will say there has always been war.  Are we that incapable of changing?

    Nah, my counterargument would be that the 3 things that historically kept the human population in check have been drastically reduced.  War, Famine, and Disease.  Maybe conflict is a part of human nature as a natural thing to keep our numbers down.   Something we've kept fairly low since WWII (at least no continent multi country wars since then).

    I always wonder, if WWII didn't happen, how many more people would be on the planet right now? 10's of million people would of sparked generations of people, had they not come to a premature end.


    I'd always hoped we could use our big brains to logically figure out how to solves issues like overpopulation.  (And it's really simple logic.  Don't reproduce.  I didn't.)  Most other (if not all other) animals do not have the capacity to reason.  Do we really want to waste that gift?

    Edit:  I should add, in case anyone thinks I have a thing against kids- I have a daughter-in-law, 5 nephews (2 of whom I helped raise for a number of years), 3 grandnephews and nieces, 3 godchildren, 3 great godchildren, 4 foster children/ great foster children via my wife, and several kid friends via friends of mine who have children.  Who needs to have babies, lol!
    Post edited by brianlux on
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    edited August 2021
    brianlux said:
    The two bombings killed massive numbers of civilians who just going about their day and were not involved in the fighting.  I don't see how anyone can justify those actions.
    There were basically 2 options to end the war. Option A would take years and cost millions of lives from several countries. Option B will cost about 200,000 lives and end it in a couple weeks. 
    Japan was refusing to surrender. They were training kids to fight with sticks because there weren’t enough guns. To keep fighting a traditional war it would have probably cost at least 20 times the number of lives, many being those civilians going about their day (if going about your day includes teaching your 13 year old son to attack Americans with a bamboo spear I guess).
    The bombs literally saved millions of lives. Japanese and America. Among Chinese and others too.
    Post edited by mace1229 on

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