If we spent as much time seeking solutions to war as we do justifying war and making it happen, maybe there would be less war, more peace.
And of course whenever someone says that, someone else will say there has always been war. Are we that incapable of changing?
As a species? Not as long as massive egos and all that comes with it (metaphoric dick-measuring, the desire to be NUMBER ONE, the hunger for power, etc.) are around — and that’s just part of who we are.
If we spent as much time seeking solutions to war as we do justifying war and making it happen, maybe there would be less war, more peace.
And of course whenever someone says that, someone else will say there has always been war. Are we that incapable of changing?
As a species? Not as long as massive egos and all that comes with it (metaphoric dick-measuring, the desire to be NUMBER ONE, the hunger for power, etc.) are around — and that’s just part of who we are.
Well, I know it's a long shot. But those do happen!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The two bombings killed massive numbers of civilians who just going about their day and were not involved in the fighting. I don't see how anyone can justify those actions.
There were basically 2 options to end the war. Option A would take years and cost millions of lives from several countries. Option B will cost about 200,000 lives and end it in a couple weeks.
Japan was refusing to surrender. They were training kids to fight with sticks because there weren’t enough guns. To keep fighting a traditional war it would have probably cost at least 20 times the number of lives, many being those civilians going about their day (if going about your day includes teaching your 13 year old son to attack Americans with a bamboo spear I guess). The bombs literally saved millions of lives. Japanese and America. Among Chinese and others too.
I can't tell you how many time I've heard people say, "Droping the atomic bombs on Japan ended the war earlier and saved millions of lives!"
Now, I'm not accusing you of this because I don't know. but more often than not, when people say that, they say it because someone else said it and it sounds good to them. How nice it must be to believe that! But then I always have to wonder, have these people really studied this issue and been open minded enough to be skeptical and consider that maybe that is false? Have they read the strong evidence that indicates that Japan would have surrendered without the bomb and that there are documents that prove Truman knew that? Or that the Soviet Unions entry into the war at that time that led Japan's leaders to privately acknowledge the need to surrender?
But no, if we acknowledge these incidents we have to acknowledge that dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was a heinous atrocity of war, a shameful part of our history. No, we would much rather sweep that under the carpet by making that claim about ending the was sooner and saving lives. That's so much easier than admitting that we needlessly killed all those Japanese citizens and scorched the earth where they lived.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The two bombings killed massive numbers of civilians who just going about their day and were not involved in the fighting. I don't see how anyone can justify those actions.
There were basically 2 options to end the war. Option A would take years and cost millions of lives from several countries. Option B will cost about 200,000 lives and end it in a couple weeks.
Japan was refusing to surrender. They were training kids to fight with sticks because there weren’t enough guns. To keep fighting a traditional war it would have probably cost at least 20 times the number of lives, many being those civilians going about their day (if going about your day includes teaching your 13 year old son to attack Americans with a bamboo spear I guess). The bombs literally saved millions of lives. Japanese and America. Among Chinese and others too.
I can't tell you how many time I've heard people say, "Droping the atomic bombs on Japan ended the war earlier and saved millions of lives!"
Now, I'm not accusing you of this because I don't know. but more often than not, when people say that, they say it because someone else said it and it sounds good to them. How nice it must be to believe that! But then I always have to wonder, have these people really studied this issue and been open minded enough to be skeptical and consider that maybe that is false? Have they read the strong evidence that indicates that Japan would have surrendered without the bomb and that there are documents that prove Truman knew that? Or that the Soviet Unions entry into the war at that time that led Japan's leaders to privately acknowledge the need to surrender?
But no, if we acknowledge these incidents we have to acknowledge that dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was a heinous atrocity of war, a shameful part of our history. No, we would much rather sweep that under the carpet by making that claim about ending the was sooner and saving lives. That's so much easier than admitting that we needlessly killed all those Japanese citizens and scorched the earth where they lived.
I don’t believe it because someone else said it and it sounds good. But because it makes the most sense when considering what we do know. The what-ifs are all hypothetical and guesses. But consider what we do know. What is well documented and not up for debate. Japan was a culture that would rather die on the battlefield than surrender or be captured. They trained new pilots to be human bombs and convinced their culture and family this was honorable. They were training kids to fight with wooden spears for an invasion. They were rebuilding, and expected to have over 5000 new aircraft before an invasion would begin. The empower was divine and an honor to die for the country. Now it’s possible you’re right and they were days or weeks away from a surrender. But it’s a lot easier for me to believe what I learned a long time ago and that is their plan was to make an invasion so costly and ready that the US would give up. Easier to believe because that fits the pattern of the whole war. They knew from very early on they would likely not win this war. But they wouldn’t give up. It wasn’t their culture. That didn’t suddenly change. The strategy was to make it so costly and bloody that we’d give up first. And without the bombs it probably would have worked. They were willing to sacrifice everything, at some point we’d say that’s enough and walk away. Millions of deaths later.
The two bombings killed massive numbers of civilians who just going about their day and were not involved in the fighting. I don't see how anyone can justify those actions.
There were basically 2 options to end the war. Option A would take years and cost millions of lives from several countries. Option B will cost about 200,000 lives and end it in a couple weeks.
Japan was refusing to surrender. They were training kids to fight with sticks because there weren’t enough guns. To keep fighting a traditional war it would have probably cost at least 20 times the number of lives, many being those civilians going about their day (if going about your day includes teaching your 13 year old son to attack Americans with a bamboo spear I guess). The bombs literally saved millions of lives. Japanese and America. Among Chinese and others too.
I can't tell you how many time I've heard people say, "Droping the atomic bombs on Japan ended the war earlier and saved millions of lives!"
Now, I'm not accusing you of this because I don't know. but more often than not, when people say that, they say it because someone else said it and it sounds good to them. How nice it must be to believe that! But then I always have to wonder, have these people really studied this issue and been open minded enough to be skeptical and consider that maybe that is false? Have they read the strong evidence that indicates that Japan would have surrendered without the bomb and that there are documents that prove Truman knew that? Or that the Soviet Unions entry into the war at that time that led Japan's leaders to privately acknowledge the need to surrender?
But no, if we acknowledge these incidents we have to acknowledge that dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was a heinous atrocity of war, a shameful part of our history. No, we would much rather sweep that under the carpet by making that claim about ending the was sooner and saving lives. That's so much easier than admitting that we needlessly killed all those Japanese citizens and scorched the earth where they lived.
I don’t believe it because someone else said it and it sounds good. But because it makes the most sense when considering what we do know. The what-ifs are all hypothetical and guesses. But consider what we do know. What is well documented and not up for debate. Japan was a culture that would rather die on the battlefield than surrender or be captured. They trained new pilots to be human bombs and convinced their culture and family this was honorable. They were training kids to fight with wooden spears for an invasion. They were rebuilding, and expected to have over 5000 new aircraft before an invasion would begin. The empower was divine and an honor to die for the country. Now it’s possible you’re right and they were days or weeks away from a surrender. But it’s a lot easier for me to believe what I learned a long time ago and that is their plan was to make an invasion so costly and ready that the US would give up. Easier to believe because that fits the pattern of the whole war. They knew from very early on they would likely not win this war. But they wouldn’t give up. It wasn’t their culture. That didn’t suddenly change. The strategy was to make it so costly and bloody that we’d give up first. And without the bombs it probably would have worked. They were willing to sacrifice everything, at some point we’d say that’s enough and walk away. Millions of deaths later.
We disagree and it doesn't look like either of us are likely to change our opinion. That's cool. So be it.
See you around, Mace.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I'm a little bit confused by this post. Is it to say that nuclear weapons are bad and should never be used again? Or is it that America had to be the country to use it first? If speaking on the catastrophic loss of human life as a whole,the Japanese murdered 200-300 thousand civilians in Nanking when they invaded Manchuria in 1937. The firebombings of Tokyo in May of 1945 killed an estimated 100 thousand civilians. War is a stain on the whole human species regardless of the countries involved.Only man can think of a way to extinct itself. Nuclear weapons just shouldn't exist.
As long as man exist their will be weapons to kill, as long as man exist their will always be torture and killing, as long as man exist their will be nuclear weapons…humans are a stain on the planet, we need to go extinct and hope whatever evolves a billion years later is smarter…that should not be hard…
The two bombings killed massive numbers of civilians who just going about their day and were not involved in the fighting. I don't see how anyone can justify those actions.
There were basically 2 options to end the war. Option A would take years and cost millions of lives from several countries. Option B will cost about 200,000 lives and end it in a couple weeks.
Japan was refusing to surrender. They were training kids to fight with sticks because there weren’t enough guns. To keep fighting a traditional war it would have probably cost at least 20 times the number of lives, many being those civilians going about their day (if going about your day includes teaching your 13 year old son to attack Americans with a bamboo spear I guess). The bombs literally saved millions of lives. Japanese and America. Among Chinese and others too.
I can't tell you how many time I've heard people say, "Droping the atomic bombs on Japan ended the war earlier and saved millions of lives!"
Now, I'm not accusing you of this because I don't know. but more often than not, when people say that, they say it because someone else said it and it sounds good to them. How nice it must be to believe that! But then I always have to wonder, have these people really studied this issue and been open minded enough to be skeptical and consider that maybe that is false? Have they read the strong evidence that indicates that Japan would have surrendered without the bomb and that there are documents that prove Truman knew that? Or that the Soviet Unions entry into the war at that time that led Japan's leaders to privately acknowledge the need to surrender?
But no, if we acknowledge these incidents we have to acknowledge that dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was a heinous atrocity of war, a shameful part of our history. No, we would much rather sweep that under the carpet by making that claim about ending the was sooner and saving lives. That's so much easier than admitting that we needlessly killed all those Japanese citizens and scorched the earth where they lived.
I don’t believe it because someone else said it and it sounds good. But because it makes the most sense when considering what we do know. The what-ifs are all hypothetical and guesses. But consider what we do know. What is well documented and not up for debate. Japan was a culture that would rather die on the battlefield than surrender or be captured. They trained new pilots to be human bombs and convinced their culture and family this was honorable. They were training kids to fight with wooden spears for an invasion. They were rebuilding, and expected to have over 5000 new aircraft before an invasion would begin. The empower was divine and an honor to die for the country. Now it’s possible you’re right and they were days or weeks away from a surrender. But it’s a lot easier for me to believe what I learned a long time ago and that is their plan was to make an invasion so costly and ready that the US would give up. Easier to believe because that fits the pattern of the whole war. They knew from very early on they would likely not win this war. But they wouldn’t give up. It wasn’t their culture. That didn’t suddenly change. The strategy was to make it so costly and bloody that we’d give up first. And without the bombs it probably would have worked. They were willing to sacrifice everything, at some point we’d say that’s enough and walk away. Millions of deaths later.
We disagree and it doesn't look like either of us are likely to change our opinion. That's cool. So be it.
See you around, Mace.
Are we somehow forgetting that a nuclear bomb was not enough to convince Japan to surrender, and it required a SECOND nuclear attack to convince them?
One block from the Hiroshima bomb site lies this American Jewel from Dallas, Texas. A simple picture can demonstrate from the horror of war a mutual understanding of a better economic system and better way to lead a nation. This would not have been possible during Japan’s long period of its autocracies of Emperors and militaries out of control. Yes the bombing was ugly but let’s not forget how an ugly autocracy can manipulate a nation to become a dangerous weapon on this planet as America races to become one.
yes we bombed Japan and invaded Afghanistan, but in both cases we were directly provoked to do so.
Comments
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The what-ifs are all hypothetical and guesses. But consider what we do know. What is well documented and not up for debate. Japan was a culture that would rather die on the battlefield than surrender or be captured. They trained new pilots to be human bombs and convinced their culture and family this was honorable. They were training kids to fight with wooden spears for an invasion. They were rebuilding, and expected to have over 5000 new aircraft before an invasion would begin. The empower was divine and an honor to die for the country.
Now it’s possible you’re right and they were days or weeks away from a surrender. But it’s a lot easier for me to believe what I learned a long time ago and that is their plan was to make an invasion so costly and ready that the US would give up. Easier to believe because that fits the pattern of the whole war. They knew from very early on they would likely not win this war. But they wouldn’t give up. It wasn’t their culture. That didn’t suddenly change. The strategy was to make it so costly and bloody that we’d give up first. And without the bombs it probably would have worked. They were willing to sacrifice everything, at some point we’d say that’s enough and walk away. Millions of deaths later.
yes we bombed Japan and invaded Afghanistan, but in both cases we were directly provoked to do so.