Police abuse

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

dankind said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cblock4life said:

Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict. 

I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.

the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.

If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen. 

george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered. 

If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly. 

To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.

The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest

Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.

This is your third white supremacist post blowing the exact same dogwhistle.

This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.

If more than half the country thinks as this post lays out, then it deserves another fucking DJT and whatever may come of it.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that in the US's short, violent history, instances in which minority victims attempted to meet their white abusers halfway have almost never worked out for the minority community in the long run. The white abusers quickly retool their olive branches into switches.

Also, the rap sheet I saw contained two misdemeanors on it. I had plenty more on mine before my 21st birthday, and I continued to resist arrest, flee, etc., whenever confronted by LEOs. I just can't believe my luck!

What do you mean by that in this case? Leading up to the shooting, what did the cops do wrong in this case? Are the police not supposed to arrest someone with an active warrant? Are they supposed to just let him flee without attempting to restrain him?
No one is asking him to meet them half way, but the police need to do their jobs. And that includes arresting people with a warrant. I mean, we had a lot of talk recently about being more aggressive with gun laws. Are those gun laws only supposed ot apply to white people? Of course not. So I just don't understand what you meant by the victims are not supposed to meet their abusers half way. Up until the moment she pulled the trigger, what did they do wrong? I see nothing. Had it actually been a taser and not a gun, I'd say the police did everything right. SO what does not meeting them halfway look like, not allowing himself to be arrested?

You see nothing wrong with how three armed cops handled that situation? Wow. Tell me, why was Daunte Wright shot?

You've asked me this question 3 times. I'll answer again. He was shot because the female cop mistook her gun for a taser.

Up until the point he was shot, no I did not see anything wrong with it.

He was pulled over for expired tags - nothing wrong with that
His name was ran and found to have a warrant - nothing wrong with that
They attempted to arrest him on said warrant - nothing wrong with that
He resisted, broke loose and lunged into his car and they attempted to restrain him - nothing wrong with that


Had the cop actually used the taser instead of the gun, I would see nothing wrong with the whole situation. Unfortunately she did, and will likely pay a price. But in the step above, prior to mistaking the gun for a taser, where did the cops go wrong? Where was he mistreated? Where did they expect him to meet half way? Where was he abused? It was a routine stop, and would have been a routine arrest on a lawful had force not been required. Are they not supposed to arrest on gun charges? I thought we wanted to be tough on guns? Or is enforcing gun laws bad now?

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

dankind said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cblock4life said:

Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict. 

I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.

the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.

If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen. 

george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered. 

If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly. 

To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.

The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest

Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.

This is your third white supremacist post blowing the exact same dogwhistle.

This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.

If more than half the country thinks as this post lays out, then it deserves another fucking DJT and whatever may come of it.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that in the US's short, violent history, instances in which minority victims attempted to meet their white abusers halfway have almost never worked out for the minority community in the long run. The white abusers quickly retool their olive branches into switches.

Also, the rap sheet I saw contained two misdemeanors on it. I had plenty more on mine before my 21st birthday, and I continued to resist arrest, flee, etc., whenever confronted by LEOs. I just can't believe my luck!

What do you mean by that in this case? Leading up to the shooting, what did the cops do wrong in this case? Are the police not supposed to arrest someone with an active warrant? Are they supposed to just let him flee without attempting to restrain him?
No one is asking him to meet them half way, but the police need to do their jobs. And that includes arresting people with a warrant. I mean, we had a lot of talk recently about being more aggressive with gun laws. Are those gun laws only supposed ot apply to white people? Of course not. So I just don't understand what you meant by the victims are not supposed to meet their abusers half way. Up until the moment she pulled the trigger, what did they do wrong? I see nothing. Had it actually been a taser and not a gun, I'd say the police did everything right. SO what does not meeting them halfway look like, not allowing himself to be arrested?

You see nothing wrong with how three armed cops handled that situation? Wow. Tell me, why was Daunte Wright shot?

You've asked me this question 3 times. I'll answer again. He was shot because the female cop mistook her gun for a taser.

Up until the point he was shot, no I did not see anything wrong with it.

He was pulled over for expired tags - nothing wrong with that
His name was ran and found to have a warrant - nothing wrong with that
They attempted to arrest him on said warrant - nothing wrong with that
He resisted, broke loose and lunged into his car and they attempted to restrain him - nothing wrong with that


Had the cop actually used the taser instead of the gun, I would see nothing wrong with the whole situation. Unfortunately she did, and will likely pay a price. But in the step above, prior to mistaking the gun for a taser, where did the cops go wrong? Where was he mistreated? Where did they expect him to meet half way? Where was he abused? It was a routine stop, and would have been a routine arrest on a lawful had force not been required. Are they not supposed to arrest on gun charges? I thought we wanted to be tough on guns? Or is enforcing gun laws bad now?

So, other than mistaking her gun for a taser, the cops were perfect? There was nothing else they could have done to reduce the odds of escalation, putting themselves at potential risk or the ultimate outcome? Nothing else should have been done or could have been done differently?

I question you on this because you’re the resident policing expert (I use the term lightly, not a slight, maybe because you always take the cops side and explain the malfeasance away, like saying “if they had only complied), having chimed in many times on police tactics and having a brother who is in law enforcement. All of your questions are immaterial as they shouldn’t matter as to why Daunte Wright was shot. Again, you see absolutely nothing wrong with their tactics up until she mistakes her gun for a taser. I see a number of tactical policing errors prior to the moment the victim is shot. A 20 year old string bean of a kid and 3 armed cops escalate to tasing/shooting when threatened with fleeing the scene?

Yes, gun laws should be enforced. Yes, drivers should be pulled over for expired tags. Yes, being detained/arrested for an outstanding warrant is okay. Daunte Wright was abused the moment he was shot. And being pulled over for expired tags and being detained for, and arrested for, outstanding misdemeanors shouldn’t result in death.

Was a gun found in the car or on Mr. Wright’s person? So a prior arrest or charge for a gun crime makes you guilty of possessing a firearm every time you get pulled over and have your name run?

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

dankind said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cblock4life said:

Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict. 

I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.

the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.

If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen. 

george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered. 

If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly. 

To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.

The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest

Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.

This is your third white supremacist post blowing the exact same dogwhistle.

This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.

If more than half the country thinks as this post lays out, then it deserves another fucking DJT and whatever may come of it.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that in the US's short, violent history, instances in which minority victims attempted to meet their white abusers halfway have almost never worked out for the minority community in the long run. The white abusers quickly retool their olive branches into switches.

Also, the rap sheet I saw contained two misdemeanors on it. I had plenty more on mine before my 21st birthday, and I continued to resist arrest, flee, etc., whenever confronted by LEOs. I just can't believe my luck!

What do you mean by that in this case? Leading up to the shooting, what did the cops do wrong in this case? Are the police not supposed to arrest someone with an active warrant? Are they supposed to just let him flee without attempting to restrain him?
No one is asking him to meet them half way, but the police need to do their jobs. And that includes arresting people with a warrant. I mean, we had a lot of talk recently about being more aggressive with gun laws. Are those gun laws only supposed ot apply to white people? Of course not. So I just don't understand what you meant by the victims are not supposed to meet their abusers half way. Up until the moment she pulled the trigger, what did they do wrong? I see nothing. Had it actually been a taser and not a gun, I'd say the police did everything right. SO what does not meeting them halfway look like, not allowing himself to be arrested?

You see nothing wrong with how three armed cops handled that situation? Wow. Tell me, why was Daunte Wright shot?

You've asked me this question 3 times. I'll answer again. He was shot because the female cop mistook her gun for a taser.

Up until the point he was shot, no I did not see anything wrong with it.

He was pulled over for expired tags - nothing wrong with that
His name was ran and found to have a warrant - nothing wrong with that
They attempted to arrest him on said warrant - nothing wrong with that
He resisted, broke loose and lunged into his car and they attempted to restrain him - nothing wrong with that


Had the cop actually used the taser instead of the gun, I would see nothing wrong with the whole situation. Unfortunately she did, and will likely pay a price. But in the step above, prior to mistaking the gun for a taser, where did the cops go wrong? Where was he mistreated? Where did they expect him to meet half way? Where was he abused? It was a routine stop, and would have been a routine arrest on a lawful had force not been required. Are they not supposed to arrest on gun charges? I thought we wanted to be tough on guns? Or is enforcing gun laws bad now?

So, other than mistaking her gun for a taser, the cops were perfect? There was nothing else they could have done to reduce the odds of escalation, putting themselves at potential risk or the ultimate outcome? Nothing else should have been done or could have been done differently?

I question you on this because you’re the resident policing expert (I use the term lightly, not a slight, maybe because you always take the cops side and explain the malfeasance away, like saying “if they had only complied), having chimed in many times on police tactics and having a brother who is in law enforcement. All of your questions are immaterial as they shouldn’t matter as to why Daunte Wright was shot. Again, you see absolutely nothing wrong with their tactics up until she mistakes her gun for a taser. I see a number of tactical policing errors prior to the moment the victim is shot. A 20 year old string bean of a kid and 3 armed cops escalate to tasing/shooting when threatened with fleeing the scene?

Yes, gun laws should be enforced. Yes, drivers should be pulled over for expired tags. Yes, being detained/arrested for an outstanding warrant is okay. Daunte Wright was abused the moment he was shot. And being pulled over for expired tags and being detained for, and arrested for, outstanding misdemeanors shouldn’t result in death.

Was a gun found in the car or on Mr. Wright’s person? So a prior arrest or charge for a gun crime makes you guilty of possessing a firearm every time you get pulled over and have your name run?

Well, you do mean it as a slight, but thats okay.
And I don't always take the cop's side. I haven't defended Chauvan. I haven't defended this girl other than saying I believe it was an accident, but that she should still have a consequence. 
Cops can never win with some people. Its "why didn't they restrain him more" or "thats abuse!" when they do. From the video I saw they were calm when placing him under arrest. He broke free and lunged into his car. This whole incident lasted under 5 seconds. And yeah, I'm okay with 3 kops using a taser when they are unable to get restraints on for an arrest warrant and he lunges inside a car. What should they do, just ask nicely and hope this guy with a warrant for gun charges is just going to lunge into his car and then change his mind to come out and be arrested? I really am curious what your solution is. I give you the female bad a terrible mistake, and that is on her. But what do you want them to do when he breaks out of the cuffs and lunges in his car? What should be the next steps if restraints have failed and a taser is too much? Keep asking nicely until he peels off and drives away?

if he is resisting arrest they have a right to use force. not deadly, but force. which I think you agree with. I would imagine most reasonable people agrees with that. We have just seen video after video after video of cops using insane amounts of unnecessary force. 

after finally watching the video, she seems genuinely in shock that she shot him (I really should have watched the video prior to commenting-my bad). I don't know if you can fake that kind of emotion. 

she still needs to be punished for her mistake, as that mistake cost a man his life. a cop should know what weapon they are holding, zero excuses. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

Yes I agree with that first part 100%. You resist, they can use non-deadly force. 
What also surprised me with the video is not only her reaction, which seems to be complete surprise at what she did, but the other cops didnt seem to realize what happened right away either. It really was all over and done in just a few seconds, none of them realized until after it was over.

Police CAN use force
But do they HAVE to use force?

It was the cop's responsibility to maintain control of the situation, which they did not do.
Once they failed to properly do their job, the police unnecessarily escalated the situation by introducing a weapon.

It didn't need to be this way. 

so it's the cop's fault that he resisted now? 

static111 said:

nicknyr15 said:

static111 said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

Here’s a good thread about some of the problems we have that could be easily fixed.  

https://twitter.com/UdiACLU/status/1381586441935933447?s=20

Maybe

It's also a stupid MN law:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.71

Prohibitions generally; exceptions. (a) A person shall not drive or operate any motor vehicle with:

(2) any objects suspended between the driver and the windshield

There should be a whole division that deals with minor infractions that don’t carry lethal weapons and can’t issue any other citations than the one being stopped for.  

I hear you but you never know who you’re pulling over. Plenty of examples of very minor traffic stops resulting in cops getting shot at. I recently got pulled over for having a mask hanging on the rear view mirror. I never keep it there I just happened to hang it up in between some errands. 

Would people be so worried and high stress if they knew that traffic cops were only responsible for traffic and other vehicle infractions and couldn’t expand their scope beyond what they are pulling someone over for? Probably not.  I mean let’s say I have a trash bag of weed in my trunk and I get pulled over for expired tags and know that I can only get a ticket for a traffic violation, tags, etc. I’m not gonna have an oh shot moment, I’m gonna take my ticket and go.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cblock4life said:

Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict. 

I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.

the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.

If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen. 

george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered. 

If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly. 

To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.

The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest

Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.

yes, I know you were referring to Wright; I was commenting on your assertion that there is something to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority; Floyd did respect authority, and he still wound up dead. 

I 100% understand why a black person would flee or resist arrest. I think many of them think they have a better chance of survival if they take off. 

dankind said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cblock4life said:

Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict. 

I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.

the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.

If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen. 

george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered. 

If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly. 

To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.

The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest

Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.

This is your third white supremacist post blowing the exact same dogwhistle.

This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.

If more than half the country thinks as this post lays out, then it deserves another fucking DJT and whatever may come of it.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that in the US's short, violent history, instances in which minority victims attempted to meet their white abusers halfway have almost never worked out for the minority community in the long run. The white abusers quickly retool their olive branches into switches.

Also, the rap sheet I saw contained two misdemeanors on it. I had plenty more on mine before my 21st birthday, and I continued to resist arrest, flee, etc., whenever confronted by LEOs. I just can't believe my luck!

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

Yes I agree with that first part 100%. You resist, they can use non-deadly force. 
What also surprised me with the video is not only her reaction, which seems to be complete surprise at what she did, but the other cops didnt seem to realize what happened right away either. It really was all over and done in just a few seconds, none of them realized until after it was over.

Police CAN use force
But do they HAVE to use force?

It was the cop's responsibility to maintain control of the situation, which they did not do.
Once they failed to properly do their job, the police unnecessarily escalated the situation by introducing a weapon.

It didn't need to be this way. 

so it's the cop's fault that he resisted now? 

No.  

It was the cop's responsibility to maintain control of the situation, which they did not do.