Police abuse

Lerxst1992

tbergs said:

I don't know, this stuff is just crazy and does not help.

Wright’s family has stated that they will be unsatisfied with anything short of murder charges against Potter. “Prosecute them, like they would prosecute us,” Nyesha Wright, the victim’s aunt, said at a Tuesday news conference. “We want the highest justice.”

Ben Crump, an attorney for Wright’s family, likened Potter’s shooting of the 20-year-old to an “execution” and expressed disbelief that Potter, a 26-year veteran of policing, could allegedly mistake a gun for a Taser.

“While we appreciate that the district attorney is pursuing justice for Daunte, no conviction can give the Wright family their loved one back,” Crump said in a statement Wednesday. “This was no accident. This was an intentional, deliberate, and unlawful use of force.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/14/daunte-wright-shooting-charging-decision/

That’s my point about Black leaders meeting us halfway in this case. This is not the time to be screaming Potter is a racist murderer. Anyone who watched that video should be able to understand her mistake, considering she just learned Wright had a gun crime on his record and he initiated illegal force against her

Wright put himself in this position by breaking the law multiple times. A Black leader needs to tell his people, “hey this unfortunate incident was partially caused by a young man and the dangerous decisions he made over the course of two years. And let’s have a moment of silence for all of the White victims of police murder, who outnumber black victims two to one.”

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

dankind said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cblock4life said:

Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict. 

I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.

the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.

If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen. 

george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered. 

If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly. 

To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.

The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest

Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.

This is your third white supremacist post blowing the exact same dogwhistle.

This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.

If more than half the country thinks as this post lays out, then it deserves another fucking DJT and whatever may come of it.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that in the US's short, violent history, instances in which minority victims attempted to meet their white abusers halfway have almost never worked out for the minority community in the long run. The white abusers quickly retool their olive branches into switches.

Also, the rap sheet I saw contained two misdemeanors on it. I had plenty more on mine before my 21st birthday, and I continued to resist arrest, flee, etc., whenever confronted by LEOs. I just can't believe my luck!

By meeting halfway, my point was Black leaders need to hold those in their community accountable when they clearly break the law, and not scream nonsense that Wright was racially murdered. But go on and misinterpret since you’ve read all three of my posts about that.

White supremacist dog whistle?? I thought you liked to play by the rules here? Guess not.

Chauvin deserves conviction, Potter does not. That makes me a racist? You forgot what “defund the police” did to downballot democrats last November? Remembering that makes me racist? Good grief.

I’ll join you in breaking the rules here bud, you are out of your mind. Wish you could help me mister.



If at 20, you-

1- illegally carried a gun
2- ran from police (then, not now)
3- ignored an order to appear in court
4- drove illegally without plates (which does put other citizens at risk)
5- forcefully resisted arrest
6- broke free of handcuffs and lunged into your car
7- where you possibly had a gun, see #1

you probably would have served some time in prison in your 20s. Wright Knew there was a chance he was going to prison, that’s why he tried to flee. Because he actually broke the law multiple times.

If being able to identify crimes and tell the difference between Chauvin and Potter makes me a white supremacist, so be it.

So "charged" equates to "guilt" in your mind? Since defendants are typically allowed their day in court, even if they skip/miss their initial court  appearance, you can't assume Daunte Wright was guilty or that the charges might have been dropped or plead to a lesser charge. Regardless, all of the offenses, illegal possession of a gun, failure to appear, driving with expired tags (2 to 3 month backlog due to covid) and resisting arrest in the moment were all misdemeanor charges. Unfortunately, a young man is dead and his kid is without a father. For 4 misdemeanors. To the bolded, I don't recall any convictions on his extensive rap sheet.

Did he drive "without plates?" Expired registration or no plates affixed to the vehicle? How does either of those "put other citizens at risk?" What assumption was it that he "possibly had a gun?" from the previous charge? Was one found in his possession before, during or after he was shot? Or any weapon for that matter?

Same old, same old. Cops did no wrong, put the dead person's character on trial and just comply. Potter gets her day in court, probably some free, top notch legal representation, maybe serves two to four years and rides off to retirement. Mr. Wright is dead. "Equal justice under the law," huh?

mace1229

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

Yes I agree with that first part 100%. You resist, they can use non-deadly force. 
What also surprised me with the video is not only her reaction, which seems to be complete surprise at what she did, but the other cops didnt seem to realize what happened right away either. It really was all over and done in just a few seconds, none of them realized until after it was over.

Police CAN use force
But do they HAVE to use force?

It was the cop's responsibility to maintain control of the situation, which they did not do.
Once they failed to properly do their job, the police unnecessarily escalated the situation by introducing a weapon.

It didn't need to be this way. 

So you’re blaming the cops that the kid resisted? What are they supposed to do, tackle and stun gun everyone they arrest just in case they will try to break free and run?

mickeyrat

Lerxst1992 said:

tbergs said:

I don't know, this stuff is just crazy and does not help.

Wright’s family has stated that they will be unsatisfied with anything short of murder charges against Potter. “Prosecute them, like they would prosecute us,” Nyesha Wright, the victim’s aunt, said at a Tuesday news conference. “We want the highest justice.”

Ben Crump, an attorney for Wright’s family, likened Potter’s shooting of the 20-year-old to an “execution” and expressed disbelief that Potter, a 26-year veteran of policing, could allegedly mistake a gun for a Taser.

“While we appreciate that the district attorney is pursuing justice for Daunte, no conviction can give the Wright family their loved one back,” Crump said in a statement Wednesday. “This was no accident. This was an intentional, deliberate, and unlawful use of force.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/14/daunte-wright-shooting-charging-decision/

That’s my point about Black leaders meeting us halfway in this case. This is not the time to be screaming Potter is a racist murderer. Anyone who watched that video should be able to understand her mistake, considering she just learned Wright had a gun crime on his record and he initiated illegal force against her

Wright put himself in this position by breaking the law multiple times. A Black leader needs to tell his people, “hey this unfortunate incident was partially caused by a young man and the dangerous decisions he made over the course of two years. And let’s have a moment of silence for all of the White victims of police murder, who outnumber black victims two to one.”

https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/07/16/the-research-is-clear-white-people-are-not-more-likely-than-black-people-to-be-killed-by-police/

Overall, close to 1,000 people are shot to death by police officers in the U.S. every year, according to a database maintained by The Washington Post. It is true that a majority of those victims are white people.

“That’s only because there are so many more white people than there are Black people in our country,” says Miller, a professor of health sciences and epidemiology who has been researching injury and violence prevention for two decades.

CM189191

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

Yes I agree with that first part 100%. You resist, they can use non-deadly force. 
What also surprised me with the video is not only her reaction, which seems to be complete surprise at what she did, but the other cops didnt seem to realize what happened right away either. It really was all over and done in just a few seconds, none of them realized until after it was over.

Police CAN use force
But do they HAVE to use force?

It was the cop's responsibility to maintain control of the situation, which they did not do.
Once they failed to properly do their job, the police unnecessarily escalated the situation by introducing a weapon.

It didn't need to be this way. 

So you’re blaming the cops that the kid resisted? What are they supposed to do, tackle and stun gun everyone they arrest just in case they will try to break free and run?

No.

I'm blaming the cops for their inability to control or de-escalate the situation. 

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cblock4life said:

Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict. 

I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.

the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.

If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen. 

george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered. 

If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly. 

To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.

The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest

Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.

yes, I know you were referring to Wright; I was commenting on your assertion that there is something to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority; Floyd did respect authority, and he still wound up dead. 

I 100% understand why a black person would flee or resist arrest. I think many of them think they have a better chance of survival if they take off. 

I disagree that Floyd respected the authority and did it right. What happened to him absolutely was wrong. Chauvan deserves to be on trial. But this wasn’t a case of Floyd complying and doing everything right and being killed either. He wound on on the ground because he refused to get in the car, and kicked his way out once he was dragged in.
Before the usuals jump in and say that doesn’t make murder right. That’s true. I’m not defending what the police did after he kicked his way out of the car. I just disagree that this is a case where he complied, did everything right, and was murdered anyway. Here’s a clip closer to the beginning that wasn’t shown as often as the knee on the neck portion. Clearly refusing to get in, then kicks his way out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Apuhj_G90QQ

I’ve also said before it’s a dangerous narrative. Your last point might be right. That they have a better chance if they fight. But you are 10,000 times more likely for it to end better for you if you don’t (warning: made up stat for those who like to ask for links on everything.) . Selling that narrative is dangerous and getting people killed. Not that you are, but the media and others are.

vant0037

Stop saying “blacks.”

tbergs

vant0037 said:

Stop saying “blacks.”

So should it be changed to something other than "Black History Month"? I mean, it seems white people are experts on all things related to other races, or at least think they are.

PJNB

tbergs said:

vant0037 said:

Stop saying “blacks.”

So should it be changed to something other than "Black History Month"? I mean, it seems white people are experts on all things related to other races, or at least think they are.

Reminds me of TO 2016 Betterman rant. 

CM189191

tbergs said:

vant0037 said:

Stop saying “blacks.”

So should it be changed to something other than "Black History Month"? I mean, it seems white people are experts on all things related to other races, or at least think they are.

https://www.africanamericanhistorymonth.gov/

mickeyrat

CM189191 said:

tbergs said:

vant0037 said:

Stop saying “blacks.”

So should it be changed to something other than "Black History Month"? I mean, it seems white people are experts on all things related to other races, or at least think they are.

https://www.africanamericanhistorymonth.gov/

CM189191

mickeyrat said:

CM189191 said:

tbergs said:

vant0037 said:

Stop saying “blacks.”

So should it be changed to something other than "Black History Month"? I mean, it seems white people are experts on all things related to other races, or at least think they are.

https://www.africanamericanhistorymonth.gov/

Yes, it also used to be known as

It was changed:

PJNB

Pretty sure we are talking about Blacks vs Black here but I will let the original poster follow up. 

mickeyrat

CM189191 said:

mickeyrat said:

CM189191 said:

tbergs said:

vant0037 said:

Stop saying “blacks.”

So should it be changed to something other than "Black History Month"? I mean, it seems white people are experts on all things related to other races, or at least think they are.

https://www.africanamericanhistorymonth.gov/

Yes, it also used to be known as

It was changed:

look at the second entry in the screenshot I posted..

OnWis97

CM189191 said:

Officer injured trying to stop man wanted for assault over Menards face mask policy

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/officer-injured-trying-to-stop-man-wanted-for-assault-over-menards-face-mask-policy

"The vehicle stopped in the area of Highway 15 and Freemont. When an officer engaged the suspect through the driver’s side window, the officer became trapped in the window and the driver took off at a high rate of speed with the officer hanging onto the vehicle.

During the struggle, the officer was struck in the head with a hammer. The officer was taken to Hutchinson Health for his injuries and is in stable condition."

He should have complied.  He’s white and wasn’t shot, but still; I would have preferred he comply.

tbergs

So now the goal is to show where police didn't shoot someone, but should have? Only the caveat is that we must make sure to post incidents that support our narrative; cops are racist and never shoot and kill white suspects? This should be productive.

eddiec

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

nicknyr15 said:

static111 said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

Here’s a good thread about some of the problems we have that could be easily fixed.  

https://twitter.com/UdiACLU/status/1381586441935933447?s=20

Maybe

It's also a stupid MN law:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.71

Prohibitions generally; exceptions. (a) A person shall not drive or operate any motor vehicle with:

(2) any objects suspended between the driver and the windshield

There should be a whole division that deals with minor infractions that don’t carry lethal weapons and can’t issue any other citations than the one being stopped for.  

I hear you but you never know who you’re pulling over. Plenty of examples of very minor traffic stops resulting in cops getting shot at. I recently got pulled over for having a mask hanging on the rear view mirror. I never keep it there I just happened to hang it up in between some errands. 

Would people be so worried and high stress if they knew that traffic cops were only responsible for traffic and other vehicle infractions and couldn’t expand their scope beyond what they are pulling someone over for? Probably not.  I mean let’s say I have a trash bag of weed in my trunk and I get pulled over for expired tags and know that I can only get a ticket for a traffic violation, tags, etc. I’m not gonna have an oh shot moment, I’m gonna take my ticket and go.

You’re admitting if we keep enforcement off of the roads, crime will rise dramatically. Once criminals know there is limited enforcement on the roads , it’s gang land Chicago all over again.

How so? And do you think that is a problem with the US in general? I ask because of all the countries I've been/lived in, it's the US that has the largest police presence monitoring roads. I've driven in many countries and currently live in a foreign country and it's not the Wild West on the roads.
It's absolute overkill in the states and a waste of tax dollars.

Merkin Baller

eddiec said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

nicknyr15 said:

static111 said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

Here’s a good thread about some of the problems we have that could be easily fixed.  

https://twitter.com/UdiACLU/status/1381586441935933447?s=20

Maybe

It's also a stupid MN law:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.71

Prohibitions generally; exceptions. (a) A person shall not drive or operate any motor vehicle with:

(2) any objects suspended between the driver and the windshield

There should be a whole division that deals with minor infractions that don’t carry lethal weapons and can’t issue any other citations than the one being stopped for.  

I hear you but you never know who you’re pulling over. Plenty of examples of very minor traffic stops resulting in cops getting shot at. I recently got pulled over for having a mask hanging on the rear view mirror. I never keep it there I just happened to hang it up in between some errands. 

Would people be so worried and high stress if they knew that traffic cops were only responsible for traffic and other vehicle infractions and couldn’t expand their scope beyond what they are pulling someone over for? Probably not.  I mean let’s say I have a trash bag of weed in my trunk and I get pulled over for expired tags and know that I can only get a ticket for a traffic violation, tags, etc. I’m not gonna have an oh shot moment, I’m gonna take my ticket and go.

You’re admitting if we keep enforcement off of the roads, crime will rise dramatically. Once criminals know there is limited enforcement on the roads , it’s gang land Chicago all over again.

How so? And do you think that is a problem with the US in general? I ask because of all the countries I've been/lived in, it's the US that has the largest police presence monitoring roads. I've driven in many countries and currently live in a foreign country and it's not the Wild West on the roads.
It's absolute overkill in the states and a waste of tax dollars.

All one has to do is look at America's rate of incarceration as compared to other developed countries to get an idea of how fucked up our criminal justice system is. 

static111

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

nicknyr15 said:

static111 said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

Here’s a good thread about some of the problems we have that could be easily fixed.  

https://twitter.com/UdiACLU/status/1381586441935933447?s=20

Maybe

It's also a stupid MN law:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/169.71

Prohibitions generally; exceptions. (a) A person shall not drive or operate any motor vehicle with:

(2) any objects suspended between the driver and the windshield

There should be a whole division that deals with minor infractions that don’t carry lethal weapons and can’t issue any other citations than the one being stopped for.  

I hear you but you never know who you’re pulling over. Plenty of examples of very minor traffic stops resulting in cops getting shot at. I recently got pulled over for having a mask hanging on the rear view mirror. I never keep it there I just happened to hang it up in between some errands. 

Would people be so worried and high stress if they knew that traffic cops were only responsible for traffic and other vehicle infractions and couldn’t expand their scope beyond what they are pulling someone over for? Probably not.  I mean let’s say I have a trash bag of weed in my trunk and I get pulled over for expired tags and know that I can only get a ticket for a traffic violation, tags, etc. I’m not gonna have an oh shot moment, I’m gonna take my ticket and go.

You’re admitting if we keep enforcement off of the roads, crime will rise dramatically. Once criminals know there is limited enforcement on the roads , it’s gang land Chicago all over again.

In your mind expired plates, broken taillight, etc = gang land lol I can see why you think things are good as they are

static111

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cblock4life said:

Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict. 

I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.

the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.

If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen. 

george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered. 

If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly. 

To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.

The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest

Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.

yes, I know you were referring to Wright; I was commenting on your assertion that there is something to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority; Floyd did respect authority, and he still wound up dead. 

I 100% understand why a black person would flee or resist arrest. I think many of them think they have a better chance of survival if they take off. 

The Floyd death was absolutely a crime, possibly murder 2. Potter I am not sure. Probably 50/50 she will get convicted of manslaughter in this climate. Ordinarily her odds are a 1 in 5 chance of conviction according to the statistics.

Just because Floyd got screwed for obeying the cop doesn’t give an up and coming criminal building his rap sheet at 20 reason to use force against the police and run. Odds are much greater of that causing an unfortunate incident against the suspect than complying.  If blacks are worried about getting killed by cops, then whites should really be scared, because double the amount of whites were killed by cops last year. I am not convinced per capita stats would quell fear for the whites.

Was he an up and coming criminal or a young man that made a couple mistakes at 20? Your bias is showing.