Police abuse

cblock4life said:

Bentleyspop said:

And now the police officer has resigned. 

They’re resigning to try to save their retirement.  Just like Chauvin got a divorce and she got most of the money to protect it and how they make sure he’s wearing an extra baggy suit (poor officer lost so much weight). Please people don’t be delusional.  These are scum moves by scum people. Don’t for once think that what they are doing is for any other reason than saving their own interests. Whites have been hanging, burning, shooting whites for centuries and some of you think it’s all the black folks fault. Officers are taught and told they’re entitled to act like assholes.  

static111 said:

nicknyr15 said:

static111 said:

If anyone wondered what white privilege and  supporting systemic racism looked like they could find it all here on the “back the blue” thread that this has become.

Ridiculous. 

Do you think there is a police violence problem in this country especially when it comes to dealing with young Black males?

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

26 year veteran didn’t or couldn’t tell the difference between her taser and firearm?

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/media/publications/taser_intl_certification_plan_full.pdf

from the link, weight 18 ozs versus 33.3 for a 9mm with a 3-15 round mag (don’t call it a clip). Optional yellow color, why? Oh, MN had an instance of law enforcement mistakenly shooting someone with their firearm and not a taser in the past.

Why do you keep implying there is some sort of conspiracy to this? You make it sound like the cop wanted to kill someone and pretended she didnt know she had her firearm out instead of a taser. Did you watch the video? She fucked up for sure. It was a mistake. Cops aren't perfect and she'll face the consequences for that mistake as well. 

Liberals better get their act together. This is defund the police all over again. 

This is clearly not anything like the Floyd murder. The victim had two outstanding warrants, physically resisted arrest and lunged into his car. The cops had every right  to suspect the victim had a gun in the car. One of the outstanding warrants involved illegal carry. In the heat of battle, the cop made a terrible mistake. But the dangerous conditions were created by the victim. Where is the black community to admit breaking the law and resisting arrest is not acceptable conduct?

Liberals want trump elected in 2024? Ignoring the victim’s contributions to his own death and ignoring the danger he put the cops in with  his blatant disregard for authority will certainly help republicans sweep congress in 22 and Trump to win in 24.

This is clearly not anything like the Floyd murder.
Yes, it is

The victim had two outstanding warrants, physically resisted arrest and lunged into his car.
This is not a license for police to summarily execute a citizen.

The cops had every right  to suspect the victim had a gun in the car.
1) no they didn't
2) cops think everyone has a gun

One of the outstanding warrants involved illegal carry.
No, the outstanding warrant was for failure to appear in court.  Neither of these are violent crimes.

In the heat of battle, the cop made a terrible mistake.
The cop was negligent and reckless

But the dangerous conditions were created by the victim.
No they weren't.  Cops started the interaction.  Where unable to control the situation.  And escalated unnecessarily.  

Where is the black community to admit breaking the law and resisting arrest is not acceptable conduct?
Police aren't supposed to murder guilty people, either. 

I will only argue the one. How is that the case? If by cops starting the interaction, you mean pulling him over for expired tags, then sure I guess. But what are they supposed not do, not enforce registration laws? Guess how many people wont register a car then, And then you blame police for not taking control of the situation? The victim chose on his own to resist, break free of the cuffs and lunge into his car. He chose to escalate it. So yes, it escalated unnecessarily. I did refer to him as the victim because none of that should result in a shooting. 

Murder is not 'enforcing registration laws'.  

Yes, I blame the police for not taking control.  There is an asymmetrical power structure here and the responsibility is on the police to maintain control.  

He wasn't shot because of expired tags.

Break it down for us, why was he shot?

I really need to? He was pulled over for tags. He was found to have a warrant. He resisted arrest, lunged into his car. The cop thought she had a taser when she actually had a gun and shot him.
The police did not just pull up and shoot him for expired tags.
The shooting was still unjustified and wrong. But its also wrong to say the police just shot him over expired tags. Or for an air freshener as was the story yesterday.

Yes, you do. Tell us why he was shot. What factors lead into his being shot. Break it down for us. Show us the failures. Or is it,”just comply?”

I just did. I'll post it again.

He was pulled over for tags. He was found to have a warrant. He resisted arrest, lunged into his car. The cop thought she had a taser when she actually had a gun and shot him.
The police did not just pull up and shoot him for expired tags.
The shooting was still unjustified and wrong. But its also wrong to say the police just shot him over expired tags. Or for an air freshener as was the story yesterday.

Did I say that? Referencing your bolded last two sentences.

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

26 year veteran didn’t or couldn’t tell the difference between her taser and firearm?

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/media/publications/taser_intl_certification_plan_full.pdf

from the link, weight 18 ozs versus 33.3 for a 9mm with a 3-15 round mag (don’t call it a clip). Optional yellow color, why? Oh, MN had an instance of law enforcement mistakenly shooting someone with their firearm and not a taser in the past.

Why do you keep implying there is some sort of conspiracy to this? You make it sound like the cop wanted to kill someone and pretended she didnt know she had her firearm out instead of a taser. Did you watch the video? She fucked up for sure. It was a mistake. Cops aren't perfect and she'll face the consequences for that mistake as well. 

Liberals better get their act together. This is defund the police all over again. 

This is clearly not anything like the Floyd murder. The victim had two outstanding warrants, physically resisted arrest and lunged into his car. The cops had every right  to suspect the victim had a gun in the car. One of the outstanding warrants involved illegal carry. In the heat of battle, the cop made a terrible mistake. But the dangerous conditions were created by the victim. Where is the black community to admit breaking the law and resisting arrest is not acceptable conduct?

Liberals want trump elected in 2024? Ignoring the victim’s contributions to his own death and ignoring the danger he put the cops in with  his blatant disregard for authority will certainly help republicans sweep congress in 22 and Trump to win in 24.

This is clearly not anything like the Floyd murder.
Yes, it is

The victim had two outstanding warrants, physically resisted arrest and lunged into his car.
This is not a license for police to summarily execute a citizen.

The cops had every right  to suspect the victim had a gun in the car.
1) no they didn't
2) cops think everyone has a gun

One of the outstanding warrants involved illegal carry.
No, the outstanding warrant was for failure to appear in court.  Neither of these are violent crimes.

In the heat of battle, the cop made a terrible mistake.
The cop was negligent and reckless

But the dangerous conditions were created by the victim.
No they weren't.  Cops started the interaction.  Where unable to control the situation.  And escalated unnecessarily.  

Where is the black community to admit breaking the law and resisting arrest is not acceptable conduct?
Police aren't supposed to murder guilty people, either. 

I will only argue the one. How is that the case? If by cops starting the interaction, you mean pulling him over for expired tags, then sure I guess. But what are they supposed not do, not enforce registration laws? Guess how many people wont register a car then, And then you blame police for not taking control of the situation? The victim chose on his own to resist, break free of the cuffs and lunge into his car. He chose to escalate it. So yes, it escalated unnecessarily. I did refer to him as the victim because none of that should result in a shooting. 

Murder is not 'enforcing registration laws'.  

Yes, I blame the police for not taking control.  There is an asymmetrical power structure here and the responsibility is on the police to maintain control.  

He wasn't shot because of expired tags.

Break it down for us, why was he shot?

I really need to? He was pulled over for tags. He was found to have a warrant. He resisted arrest, lunged into his car. The cop thought she had a taser when she actually had a gun and shot him.
The police did not just pull up and shoot him for expired tags.
The shooting was still unjustified and wrong. But its also wrong to say the police just shot him over expired tags. Or for an air freshener as was the story yesterday.

Yes, you do. Tell us why he was shot. What factors lead into his being shot. Break it down for us. Show us the failures. Or is it,”just comply?”

I just did. I'll post it again.

He was pulled over for tags. He was found to have a warrant. He resisted arrest, lunged into his car. The cop thought she had a taser when she actually had a gun and shot him.
The police did not just pull up and shoot him for expired tags.
The shooting was still unjustified and wrong. But its also wrong to say the police just shot him over expired tags. Or for an air freshener as was the story yesterday.

Did I say that? Referencing your bolded last two sentences.

You didn't say it. But that was the claim someone else made that prompted my reply to which you asked for step by step clarification of why he was shot. I took that to mean you agreed with the previous post of him being shot for tags. If you disagree with that statement, then I misread into your inquiry of asking for a break down of why he was shot. 

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

CM189191 said:

Kim Potter....another responsible gun owner!

I own a gun and like blunts.  Should I be murdered for an air freshener hanging from my rearview mirror?



The reason this pisses me off so much is because a similar scenario happened to me.  Pulled over in MN for an air freshener.  One of those stupid little pine trees.

I'm driving home from Des Moines to Minneapolis.  I got my car washed in Iowa.  They put the air freshener there, being unfamiliar with MN air freshener laws.  I was a recent transplant, also unfamiliar with MN air freshener law.   

Cop comes up to the car and the air freshener was an obvious excuse to stick his nose in my car and start poking around.  He starts asking questions, trying find something, anything to pin on me.  Unnecessarily and intentionally trying to get me riled up. 

I'm professional, and was wearing a suit at the time.  Being fresh out of college, they question me for being too young to be so professional.  So many questions: who are you, where are you going, anything in the car, and so on.  

It was never about the air freshener.  It was about harassing someone just trying to get home from work.

I'd be pissed too if I were you in that scenario. And nobody think he should've been shot. But let's throw out the notion that it was an accidental discharge, and go with the popular narrative around here that cops hunt black people and want to murder them. And as a lot of people say, even if you comply, you can still get killed. Alright, well then if you don't comply, you're likely going to get killed. So why resist and put yourself at the mercy of racist cops?  I don't know. It's horrible that he shot like that and the cop should face major consequences. But while you both got pulled for air-fresheners (which is dumb in it's own right), you didn't have an active warrant that would require an arrest. And if you did, I doubt you're trying to break from the handcuffs and speed away. 

Literally no one has said that around here.  What has been said over and over is that there is racism inherent in our policing system and that for some reason(racism) cops are more scared of their lives at a traffic stop with People of Color than they are with white mass shooters.  People the. Bend over backwards to come up with any theory they can that doesn’t point to the issue, which is systemic racism and bad policing.  Then obfuscate the facts with made up anecdotes about hunting people...

Some did say they didnt beliebve it was an accident, that the cop didn't really mistake her gun for the taser. And if you say that, arent you saying that cops go out wanting to murder black people? Because if you believe she knew it was a gun and knowingly pulled the trigger to kill him, that would be murder. I don;t see the difference in saying she's lying about how it happened and saying she went out to murder him. 

vant0037 said:

Is anyone interesting in discussing this, or just arguing a point to win?

Let's strip away everything contextual about this: the officer's experience, the victim's race and warrants, social media.  Take it all away.

Look at the raw facts of the case:

An officer - apparently accidentally - mistook a lethal weapon for a non-lethal one and shot someone who by rights she didn't think needed to be shot.  You're left with a very poorly trained or poorly performing officer and a dead 20 year old who didn't need to be killed.  That should piss you off, and outrage you because this is precisely the opposite of what we want in police officers.  There are certain professions where some mistakes can't be tolerated, if only because the stakes are usually very high.  Airline pilots, doctors, and people who carry deadly weapons as tools of the trade.  Cops do NOT have a safe or easy job.  They go into shitty situations and have lots of stress and tough calls to make.  But until they are drafted involuntarily, it is a position that they choose to be in.  If its a voluntary choice, then they need to be expected to be held to a higher standard of precision.  In short, you cannot make a mistake like the one made here.  Let's all agree on that.

Let's agree that this cop shouldn't have a job anymore (she doesn't), at minimum.  Let's also agree that, if you review Minnesota's applicable laws on negligent homicide, it probably warrants a criminal investigation into her conduct.  I've looked at the statute, and I can make a case that what we know to be true from this video COULD meet the elements of a negligent homicide/manslaughter etc.  I make no guess as to whether charges will be filed or whether she could be convicted, but suffice it to say, an investigation is coming and justified.

Now, add in the mountain of context:

Daunte Wright had a criminal record, or at least, charges against him and warrants.  He had possessed a weapon before.  He probably wasn't, at all times in his life, a law abiding citizen. But in America, even murderers and pedophiles cannot be executed or killed outside of a state-sanctioned execution unless the officer's use of deadly force is authorized under state law. Again, looking at Minnesota's use-of-force statute, which was just revised in 2020 and applying it to the facts we know in this case, she simply wasn't authorized to use deadly force here.

Daunte Wright was an African-American.  The officer was white.  Daunte Wright was attempting to flee, and there's no evidence that he was reaching for a gun.  You can reasonably infer that from the video and the officer's statements.

Meanwhile, about 10 miles away, the biggest trial in Minnesota history - and perhaps the biggest trial involving an officer charged with murder in modern US history - was in its 3rd week.  There, the white officer was charged with killing an African-American man who also had a criminal history, but who, like Daunte Wright, probably wasn't a threat to the officer, or at least in a way that would warrant lethal force.

So...

We can debate all day about whether Lebron James is correct about black people being hunted or not, or semantically about whether Daunte Wright was a saint or not, or who said what or whether Trump is going to prove us all wrong.  Let's all take a deep breath a set our political views aside for a second and agree on what we all should be able to agree on.

The bare facts of this killing should outrage you from a public safety standpoint.  Cops are humans but their margin for error has to be much, much smaller than this.  Let's agree on that.

Let's all also agree that whatever our politics are, it might understandable why people are outraged by Daunte Wright's death, if only because the actors all look so familiar, and the facts of the killing are arguably just as egregious as the Floyd case or the Philando Castile case or the Eric Garner case or the Breonna Taylor case.  A black victim killed by an officer who was in most cases either white or a different color than the victim.  If you're white and having a hard time agreeing with that statement, consider at least, that you have not lived the black experience in America.  There are reams of studies and data that prove your white experience and your relationship with the criminal justice system is not the same as a person of colors.  Let's all agree that its possible that persons of color might have had different experiences in their lives with law enforcement.

Are those positions so crazy?

Apologies for the novel.  But the bickering about nitpicky little points seemed very beside the issue, when this case above many others seems so ripe for agreement that what the cop did - mistakenly or not - was really bad, perhaps criminally bad.

nicknyr15 said:

static111 said:

nicknyr15 said:

static111 said:

If anyone wondered what white privilege and  supporting systemic racism looked like they could find it all here on the “back the blue” thread that this has become.

Ridiculous. 

Do you think there is a police violence problem in this country especially when it comes to dealing with young Black males?

I have no desire to go back and forth on this issue with you. No disrespect, honestly. We will never see eye to and there’s nothing wrong with that. I respect your opinion, passion and the way you communicate your point, unlike others here.  I’m with Ledbetterman10 on this one. 

gimmesometruth27 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i don't know about you all, but when i eat soup i routinely accidently grab a fork instead of a spoon.

lol, yeah, that explanation isn't believable in the least (to me, anyway). 

when you hold a taser out in front of you and a gun out in front of you, when you aim down the sight, they both look different, right? the handles feel different in your hands, right? i mean, come on. that explanation is laughable.