Police abuse

tbergs · April 2021

static111 said:

This is a terrible association. If these are the comparisons that people want to argue, then it's no different when police use the shootings of other cops as the reason for deadly force in any non-compliance situations. I'm not condoning this as much a I'm not condoning the "he should have just complied" crowd. Neither are an excuse for this situation.

mickeyrat · April 2021

static111 · April 2021

tbergs said:

static111 said:

This is a terrible association. If these are the comparisons that people want to argue, then it's no different when police use the shootings of other cops as the reason for deadly force in any non-compliance situations. I'm not condoning this as much a I'm not condoning the "he should have just complied" crowd. Neither are an excuse for this situation.

Sorry not even the same thing. less than 100 police get killed in the line of duty versus them killing 1000 plus people a year. And we know that a certain segment of the murdered by cop population takes more of this on per capita. The police that do get killed in the line of duty by weapons are often times responding to actual violent acts that they signed up for, whereas the people that have been getting killed by police have largely been for some minor offense and “not complying”. I’m sure you’ve seen the video of the army lieutenant that was going around recently. People have more to fear from cops than cops have from people, statistically speaking.

static111 · April 2021

FBI police killed in action data 2019. https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

Washington post police shootings database.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

Sure doesn’t look like the same thing to me

vant0037 · April 2021

If you don’t know the difference between someone trying to flee and someone who is a threat against whom lethal force needs to be used, you shouldn’t be a cop. If you don’t know the difference between a taser and gun, you shouldn’t be a cop. If someone dies because your ignorance on either count, you quite possibly also shouldn’t be free.

Say a prayer for your friends and family and Daunte Wright. Say a prayer for love and peace and equality. Say a prayer for the cop, that she may be forgiven. But remember that forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetting and if criminal charges are coming against this officer (I think they are), say a prayer for justice too. Sooner or later it’s gonna come...

Lerxst1992 · April 2021

static111 said:

If you are that afraid of police, some advice-

don’t drive with an expired registration
don’t carry a gun without a permit
hell, don’t carry a gun, period.
dont run away from police
don’t resist arrest and attempt to drive away.

20 years old and the victim was building a sizable rap sheet. It’s an unfortunate accident, but the police had every reason to think it was possible he could have had a gun under his seat when he lunged into his car while resisting arrest. Lunging away from police into your car is a terrible idea when getting arrested.

mace1229 · April 2021

static111 said:

tbergs said:

static111 said:

This is a terrible association. If these are the comparisons that people want to argue, then it's no different when police use the shootings of other cops as the reason for deadly force in any non-compliance situations. I'm not condoning this as much a I'm not condoning the "he should have just complied" crowd. Neither are an excuse for this situation.

Sorry not even the same thing. less than 100 police get killed in the line of duty versus them killing 1000 plus people a year. And we know that a certain segment of the murdered by cop population takes more of this on per capita. The police that do get killed in the line of duty by weapons are often times responding to actual violent acts that they signed up for, whereas the people that have been getting killed by police have largely been for some minor offense and “not complying”. I’m sure you’ve seen the video of the army lieutenant that was going around recently. People have more to fear from cops than cops have from people, statistically speaking.

Where are you getting that? Using your numbers of 100 cops being killed they are at a much higher risk of being killed than the 350 million citizens who get killed at a rate of 1000 per year.
Not defending what happened yesterday, but civilians are not in more danger of being killed by police than of police risk. It’s not even close.
And I hate the argument “that’s what they signed up for.” That doesn’t make violence against police okay.

vant0037 · April 2021

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

If you are that afraid of police, some advice-

don’t drive with an expired registration
don’t carry a gun without a permit
hell, don’t carry a gun, period.
dont run away from police
don’t resist arrest and attempt to drive away.

20 years old and the victim was building a sizable rap sheet. It’s an unfortunate accident, but the police had every reason to think it was possible he could have had a gun under his seat when he lunged into his car while resisting arrest. Lunging away from police into your car is a terrible idea when getting arrested.

What was his rap sheet?

Halifax2TheMax · April 2021

A 26 year veteran police officer confuses her gun for a taser? Never mind looking down the site and holding it out in front of her in the moments until she pulled the trigger.

oftenreading · April 2021

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

tbergs said:

static111 said:

This is a terrible association. If these are the comparisons that people want to argue, then it's no different when police use the shootings of other cops as the reason for deadly force in any non-compliance situations. I'm not condoning this as much a I'm not condoning the "he should have just complied" crowd. Neither are an excuse for this situation.

Sorry not even the same thing. less than 100 police get killed in the line of duty versus them killing 1000 plus people a year. And we know that a certain segment of the murdered by cop population takes more of this on per capita. The police that do get killed in the line of duty by weapons are often times responding to actual violent acts that they signed up for, whereas the people that have been getting killed by police have largely been for some minor offense and “not complying”. I’m sure you’ve seen the video of the army lieutenant that was going around recently. People have more to fear from cops than cops have from people, statistically speaking.

Where are you getting that? Using your numbers of 100 cops being killed they are at a much higher risk of being killed than the 350 million citizens who get killed at a rate of 1000 per year.
Not defending what happened yesterday, but civilians are not in more danger of being killed by police than of police risk. It’s not even close.
And I hate the argument “that’s what they signed up for.” That doesn’t make violence against police okay.

There is a big gulf between recognizing that there are occupational hazards in policing vs saying "violence against police is okay". It's almost as foolish to deny that police have to face the occupational hazard of dealing with violent situations as it would be to deny that those in the armed forces do, or that roofers have to deal with the occupational hazards of working at heights. Reasonable efforts should go in to reducing those risks but they will always exist, and strategies to mitigate those risks should not involve placing those being stopped or arrested at greater risk.

Halifax2TheMax · April 2021

I’m not buying the chief’s explanation. Designed to feel different from a gun under a blindfolded test subject handling. Trained to wear their gun on the dominant hand side. Here’s a photo of the cop. Had enough time to shout “taser” three times but didn’t realize she had her gun drawn? You’re buying that?

Halifax2TheMax · April 2021

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

tbergs said:

static111 said:

This is a terrible association. If these are the comparisons that people want to argue, then it's no different when police use the shootings of other cops as the reason for deadly force in any non-compliance situations. I'm not condoning this as much a I'm not condoning the "he should have just complied" crowd. Neither are an excuse for this situation.

Sorry not even the same thing. less than 100 police get killed in the line of duty versus them killing 1000 plus people a year. And we know that a certain segment of the murdered by cop population takes more of this on per capita. The police that do get killed in the line of duty by weapons are often times responding to actual violent acts that they signed up for, whereas the people that have been getting killed by police have largely been for some minor offense and “not complying”. I’m sure you’ve seen the video of the army lieutenant that was going around recently. People have more to fear from cops than cops have from people, statistically speaking.

Where are you getting that? Using your numbers of 100 cops being killed they are at a much higher risk of being killed than the 350 million citizens who get killed at a rate of 1000 per year.
Not defending what happened yesterday, but civilians are not in more danger of being killed by police than of police risk. It’s not even close.
And I hate the argument “that’s what they signed up for.” That doesn’t make violence against police okay.

There is a big gulf between recognizing that there are occupational hazards in policing vs saying "violence against police is okay". It's almost as foolish to deny that police have to face the occupational hazard of dealing with violent situations as it would be to deny that those in the armed forces do, or that roofers have to deal with the occupational hazards of working at heights. Reasonable efforts should go in to reducing those risks but they will always exist, and strategies to mitigate those risks should not involve placing those being stopped or arrested at greater risk.

Not to mention they spend 96% of their time on routine calls and other non-violent police work.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/upshot/unrest-police-time-violent-crime.html

Hobbes · April 2021

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

If you are that afraid of police, some advice-

don’t drive with an expired registration
don’t carry a gun without a permit
hell, don’t carry a gun, period.
dont run away from police
don’t resist arrest and attempt to drive away.

20 years old and the victim was building a sizable rap sheet. It’s an unfortunate accident, but the police had every reason to think it was possible he could have had a gun under his seat when he lunged into his car while resisting arrest. Lunging away from police into your car is a terrible idea when getting arrested.

Don't be black?

mickeyrat · April 2021

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

If you are that afraid of police, some advice-

don’t drive with an expired registration
don’t carry a gun without a permit
hell, don’t carry a gun, period.
dont run away from police
don’t resist arrest and attempt to drive away.

20 years old and the victim was building a sizable rap sheet. It’s an unfortunate accident, but the police had every reason to think it was possible he could have had a gun under his seat when he lunged into his car while resisting arrest. Lunging away from police into your car is a terrible idea when getting arrested.

you forgot dont sleep in your apartment

Halifax2TheMax · April 2021

mickeyrat said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

If you are that afraid of police, some advice-

don’t drive with an expired registration
don’t carry a gun without a permit
hell, don’t carry a gun, period.
dont run away from police
don’t resist arrest and attempt to drive away.

20 years old and the victim was building a sizable rap sheet. It’s an unfortunate accident, but the police had every reason to think it was possible he could have had a gun under his seat when he lunged into his car while resisting arrest. Lunging away from police into your car is a terrible idea when getting arrested.

you forgot dont sleep in your apartment

And comply, be cuffed, sat down on the sidewalk, placed in a patrol car, removed, walked across the street behind a different patrol car, forced to lay down and have one cop kneel on your neck while two others hold you down and a fourth keeps the concerned citizens at bay until you’re dead, in approximately 8 seconds but they do it for 9 and a half minutes, just to be sure.

mace1229 · April 2021

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

tbergs said:

static111 said:

This is a terrible association. If these are the comparisons that people want to argue, then it's no different when police use the shootings of other cops as the reason for deadly force in any non-compliance situations. I'm not condoning this as much a I'm not condoning the "he should have just complied" crowd. Neither are an excuse for this situation.

Sorry not even the same thing. less than 100 police get killed in the line of duty versus them killing 1000 plus people a year. And we know that a certain segment of the murdered by cop population takes more of this on per capita. The police that do get killed in the line of duty by weapons are often times responding to actual violent acts that they signed up for, whereas the people that have been getting killed by police have largely been for some minor offense and “not complying”. I’m sure you’ve seen the video of the army lieutenant that was going around recently. People have more to fear from cops than cops have from people, statistically speaking.

Where are you getting that? Using your numbers of 100 cops being killed they are at a much higher risk of being killed than the 350 million citizens who get killed at a rate of 1000 per year.
Not defending what happened yesterday, but civilians are not in more danger of being killed by police than of police risk. It’s not even close.
And I hate the argument “that’s what they signed up for.” That doesn’t make violence against police okay.

There is a big gulf between recognizing that there are occupational hazards in policing vs saying "violence against police is okay". It's almost as foolish to deny that police have to face the occupational hazard of dealing with violent situations as it would be to deny that those in the armed forces do, or that roofers have to deal with the occupational hazards of working at heights. Reasonable efforts should go in to reducing those risks but they will always exist, and strategies to mitigate those risks should not involve placing those being stopped or arrested at greater risk.

I agree with all that. I was just responding to the comment that citizens are in more danger from cops than cops are on the job. No matter how someone skews the data, that isn’t true. Then adds and when they do get killed, they signed up for it anyway. It just came across as callous towards police deaths to me.

Halifax2TheMax · April 2021

26 year veteran didn’t or couldn’t tell the difference between her taser and firearm?

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/media/publications/taser_intl_certification_plan_full.pdf

from the link, weight 18 ozs versus 33.3 for a 9mm with a 3-15 round mag (don’t call it a clip). Optional yellow color, why? Oh, MN had an instance of law enforcement mistakenly shooting someone with their firearm and not a taser in the past.

mickeyrat · April 2021

this belongs here too.....

April 12, 2021 (Monday)

Yesterday, at about 2:00 in the afternoon, a white police officer in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, shot and killed 20-year-old Daunte Wright, a Black man, after what seems to have been a routine traffic stop turned up an arrest warrant. Today, the Brooklyn Center police chief told reporters that the arresting officer intended to fire her Taser at Wright, but instead fired her gun.

Wright’s death took place about ten miles from where Derek Chauvin is on trial for killing George Floyd in Minneapolis last May. Then a police officer, Chauvin knelt on Floyd’s neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds while bystanders implored him to stop. Chauvin, a white officer, was arresting Floyd, a Black man, on suspicion of using a counterfeit bill.

In the three weeks of Chauvin’s trial, the former officer’s defenders have noted that there was fentanyl in Floyd’s blood, and suggested he expired not because of the knee on his neck but because he abused opioids. After Wright’s death, those defending the police officer who shot him argued that Wright had brought the deadly outcome on himself by resisting arrest.

But here’s the thing: Mr. Floyd and Mr. Wright are not on trial. Whether they abused drugs, or passed bad bills, or did something that warranted arrest, or did all of those things or none of them simply does not matter. They are not on trial.

What is on trial is the fundamental American principle of equality before the law. Our law enforcement officers are supposed to use the force of the state to deliver suspected lawbreakers to our criminal justice system. And yet, in both of these cases—and so many others in which a Black person has died at the hands of police—the officers apparently killed suspected offenders instead of delivering them to the legal system guaranteed under our Constitution. Individual police officers appear to have taken the law into their own hands and become judge, jury, and executioner.

Either Floyd and Wright had the right to due legal process, or police officers could condemn them to death without the due process of the law. If the former, it is imperative to defend the principle of equality before the law against those who would undermine that principle. If the latter, Floyd and Wright are not equal to white Americans, and we need to revisit exactly what sort of government we have.

On this day in 1861, Confederate forces fired on Fort Sumter, the United States fort located in Charleston Harbor, launching a Civil War that would take more than 600,000 lives and cost the United States more than $5 billion. The leaders of the Confederate States of America believed that the government of the United States of America had a fatal flaw: it declared that all men were created equal.

The men who framed the Constitution had made the terrible error of believing in equality, Georgia’s Alexander Stephens, the newly-elected vice president of the Confederacy, told a crowd on March 21, 1861. Northerners, he said, stupidly clung to the outdated idea that “the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man.”

In contrast to the United States government,” Stephens said, “the Confederate government rested on the “great truth” that “the negro is not equal to the white man; that… subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.” Stephens told listeners that the Confederate government “is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”

Abraham Lincoln rejected this radical attempt to destroy the principles of the Declaration of Independence. He understood that it was not just Black rights at stake, but also democracy. Arguments like that of Stephens, that some men were better than others, “are the arguments that kings have made for enslaving the people in all ages of the world,” Lincoln said. “You will find that all the arguments in favor of king-craft were of this class; they always bestrode the necks of the people, not that they wanted to do it, but because the people were better off for being ridden…. Turn in whatever way you will—whether it come from the mouth of a King, an excuse for enslaving the people of his country, or from the mouth of men of one race as a reason for enslaving the men of another race, it is all the same old serpent….”

Lincoln warned that “it does not stop with the negro. I should like to know if taking this old Declaration of Independence, which declares that all men are equal upon principle and making exceptions to it where will it stop. If one man says it does not mean a negro, why not another say it does not mean some other man?” He told an audience in Chicago, Illinois, that Americans must stand with the Declaration of Independence or, he said, “If that declaration is not the truth, let us get the Statute book, in which we find it and tear it out!”

“NO! NO!” his audience cried. And when the Confederates fired on Fort Sumter, they took up arms to defend their government.

Almost four years to the day after the firing on Fort Sumter, Confederate General Robert E. Lee surrendered his Army of Northern Virginia, marking the defeat of the Confederacy and its attempt to create a nation in which some people were better than others.

And yet, on January 6, 2021, insurrectionists brandished the Confederate battle flag in the U.S. Capitol.

tbergs · April 2021

Halifax2TheMax said:

26 year veteran didn’t or couldn’t tell the difference between her taser and firearm?

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/media/publications/taser_intl_certification_plan_full.pdf

from the link, weight 18 ozs versus 33.3 for a 9mm with a 3-15 round mag (don’t call it a clip). Optional yellow color, why? Oh, MN had an instance of law enforcement mistakenly shooting someone with their firearm and not a taser in the past.

Why do you keep implying there is some sort of conspiracy to this? You make it sound like the cop wanted to kill someone and pretended she didnt know she had her firearm out instead of a taser. Did you watch the video? She fucked up for sure. It was a mistake. Cops aren't perfect and she'll face the consequences for that mistake as well.

static111 · April 2021

Halifax2TheMax said:

I’m not buying the chief’s explanation. Designed to feel different from a gun under a blindfolded test subject handling. Trained to wear their gun on the dominant hand side. Here’s a photo of the cop. Had enough time to shout “taser” three times but didn’t realize she had her gun drawn? You’re buying that?

The confused for a taser has been used in the past to cover up for other extra judicial police murders. They think we are that stupid.

Police abuse

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