The coronavirus
Comments
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Brainy, my man! Like I asked PJNB, you are given the keys to the kingdom, how are you handling it?F Me In The Brain said:Do nothing is the answer?That explains a lot.0 -
He didn't though. What is so hard to understand about this? He did half measures. "Two weeks to flatten" and "slow the spread"... He left it to individual states to come up with their own mandates and what happened? Blue states and red states were totally different and had differing results.mrussel1 said:
He did nothing... so why do you think he botched it? Half million dead is a stunning success I guess. If only it could have been more.gvn2fly1421 said:
My opinion, he should have done nothing. By doing nothing, the virus spreads more quickly and herd immunity is reached sooner.PJNB said:
How did Trump botch the handling of it?gvn2fly1421 said:
I have stated several times that Trump botched the handling of it. Now, do the "Blue" states?mrussel1 said:
Completely agree. There's no question that Trump's abdication of responsibility and complete denial of the danger was rooted in his fear of losing the election if the economy went down. Of course the sad irony is that he lost the election precisely because of his denial. He had his moment, the one where a president gets to rally the country in a common cause, but he blew it. This is because he's an idiot, a narcissist and completely lacks strategic thinking and the ability to calculate second order effects. His capacity to only think tactically is a death blow to a leader/gvn2fly1421 said:
It's almost like the whole response to this thing was not driven by science, but by..... politics.23scidoo said:
Scientists have different opinions..Poncier said:
Science is not an opinion.23scidoo said:
Also characterized one person to another, without know shit about the other person, just because they have different opinions..mrussel1 said:This thread is stupid at this point. People posting shit from twitter, things opined about a year ago when we had little information, etc. It's so disingenuous. But seriously, keep fighting the fight that COVID isn't real. Maybe we'll re-do the election so Trump can win while we're at it.
By going the "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "slow the spread" route, all we did is prolong this thing.
Give this a watch if you can (36 minutes), or have it play as background, there is nothing to watch. An interview with Knut Witkowski, one who said nothing should have been done back last March and April. This is a catch up video a year later and his opinions are unchanged. His first video was removed from youtube as well, go figure right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4wIsshE4Q4
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Sure did.. and overall blue states did better. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/gvn2fly1421 said:
He didn't though. What is so hard to understand about this? He did half measures. "Two weeks to flatten" and "slow the spread"... He left it to individual states to come up with their own mandates and what happened? Blue states and red states were totally different and had differing results.mrussel1 said:
He did nothing... so why do you think he botched it? Half million dead is a stunning success I guess. If only it could have been more.gvn2fly1421 said:
My opinion, he should have done nothing. By doing nothing, the virus spreads more quickly and herd immunity is reached sooner.PJNB said:
How did Trump botch the handling of it?gvn2fly1421 said:
I have stated several times that Trump botched the handling of it. Now, do the "Blue" states?mrussel1 said:
Completely agree. There's no question that Trump's abdication of responsibility and complete denial of the danger was rooted in his fear of losing the election if the economy went down. Of course the sad irony is that he lost the election precisely because of his denial. He had his moment, the one where a president gets to rally the country in a common cause, but he blew it. This is because he's an idiot, a narcissist and completely lacks strategic thinking and the ability to calculate second order effects. His capacity to only think tactically is a death blow to a leader/gvn2fly1421 said:
It's almost like the whole response to this thing was not driven by science, but by..... politics.23scidoo said:
Scientists have different opinions..Poncier said:
Science is not an opinion.23scidoo said:
Also characterized one person to another, without know shit about the other person, just because they have different opinions..mrussel1 said:This thread is stupid at this point. People posting shit from twitter, things opined about a year ago when we had little information, etc. It's so disingenuous. But seriously, keep fighting the fight that COVID isn't real. Maybe we'll re-do the election so Trump can win while we're at it.
By going the "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "slow the spread" route, all we did is prolong this thing.
Give this a watch if you can (36 minutes), or have it play as background, there is nothing to watch. An interview with Knut Witkowski, one who said nothing should have been done back last March and April. This is a catch up video a year later and his opinions are unchanged. His first video was removed from youtube as well, go figure right.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4wIsshE4Q4
Or more specifically, states with governors who took it seriously. I say that because Ohio did well and DeWine and Hogan were strong leaders on this front.Post edited by mrussel1 on0 -
guess leaving is all about timing?
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'Who cares if millions of people die? I need to live MY life.'0 -
Muh.. the economy. Well last year didn't turn out that terrible, we kept people afloat and now there's a vaccine. But sure... we should have just let the infection run wild. Genius.Merkin Baller said:
'Who cares if millions of people die? I need to live MY life.'0 -
Ok, so you post a link claiming victory on one metric, that metric being current cases? One year into this thing? You realize we could post data back and forth that suggests red states did better on one metric and blue states did better on another. You chose the current case count.mrussel1 said:
Sure did.. and overall blue states did better. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/gvn2fly1421 said:
He didn't though. What is so hard to understand about this? He did half measures. "Two weeks to flatten" and "slow the spread"... He left it to individual states to come up with their own mandates and what happened? Blue states and red states were totally different and had differing results.mrussel1 said:
He did nothing... so why do you think he botched it? Half million dead is a stunning success I guess. If only it could have been more.gvn2fly1421 said:
My opinion, he should have done nothing. By doing nothing, the virus spreads more quickly and herd immunity is reached sooner.PJNB said:
How did Trump botch the handling of it?gvn2fly1421 said:
I have stated several times that Trump botched the handling of it. Now, do the "Blue" states?mrussel1 said:
Completely agree. There's no question that Trump's abdication of responsibility and complete denial of the danger was rooted in his fear of losing the election if the economy went down. Of course the sad irony is that he lost the election precisely because of his denial. He had his moment, the one where a president gets to rally the country in a common cause, but he blew it. This is because he's an idiot, a narcissist and completely lacks strategic thinking and the ability to calculate second order effects. His capacity to only think tactically is a death blow to a leader/gvn2fly1421 said:
It's almost like the whole response to this thing was not driven by science, but by..... politics.23scidoo said:
Scientists have different opinions..Poncier said:
Science is not an opinion.23scidoo said:
Also characterized one person to another, without know shit about the other person, just because they have different opinions..mrussel1 said:This thread is stupid at this point. People posting shit from twitter, things opined about a year ago when we had little information, etc. It's so disingenuous. But seriously, keep fighting the fight that COVID isn't real. Maybe we'll re-do the election so Trump can win while we're at it.
By going the "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "slow the spread" route, all we did is prolong this thing.
Give this a watch if you can (36 minutes), or have it play as background, there is nothing to watch. An interview with Knut Witkowski, one who said nothing should have been done back last March and April. This is a catch up video a year later and his opinions are unchanged. His first video was removed from youtube as well, go figure right.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4wIsshE4Q4
Or more specifically, states with governors who took it seriously. I say that because Ohio did well and DeWine and Hogan were strong leaders on this front.
Since this board loves the line of, "500,000 Americans couldn't be reached" (so juicy BTW) and likes to keep pointing out the death count, let me choose the metric of deaths per million people...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
We could do this all day, so again, you are given the keys, how are you driving this car? And this is a year into it, we should be able to see a lot clearer now... Saw things.... Saw things.... Saw things... CLEARER!!!
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google "new zealand coronavirus" and you have your answer.gvn2fly1421 said:
Ok, so you post a link claiming victory on one metric, that metric being current cases? One year into this thing? You realize we could post data back and forth that suggests red states did better on one metric and blue states did better on another. You chose the current case count.mrussel1 said:
Sure did.. and overall blue states did better. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/gvn2fly1421 said:
He didn't though. What is so hard to understand about this? He did half measures. "Two weeks to flatten" and "slow the spread"... He left it to individual states to come up with their own mandates and what happened? Blue states and red states were totally different and had differing results.mrussel1 said:
He did nothing... so why do you think he botched it? Half million dead is a stunning success I guess. If only it could have been more.gvn2fly1421 said:
My opinion, he should have done nothing. By doing nothing, the virus spreads more quickly and herd immunity is reached sooner.PJNB said:
How did Trump botch the handling of it?gvn2fly1421 said:
I have stated several times that Trump botched the handling of it. Now, do the "Blue" states?mrussel1 said:
Completely agree. There's no question that Trump's abdication of responsibility and complete denial of the danger was rooted in his fear of losing the election if the economy went down. Of course the sad irony is that he lost the election precisely because of his denial. He had his moment, the one where a president gets to rally the country in a common cause, but he blew it. This is because he's an idiot, a narcissist and completely lacks strategic thinking and the ability to calculate second order effects. His capacity to only think tactically is a death blow to a leader/gvn2fly1421 said:
It's almost like the whole response to this thing was not driven by science, but by..... politics.23scidoo said:
Scientists have different opinions..Poncier said:
Science is not an opinion.23scidoo said:
Also characterized one person to another, without know shit about the other person, just because they have different opinions..mrussel1 said:This thread is stupid at this point. People posting shit from twitter, things opined about a year ago when we had little information, etc. It's so disingenuous. But seriously, keep fighting the fight that COVID isn't real. Maybe we'll re-do the election so Trump can win while we're at it.
By going the "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "slow the spread" route, all we did is prolong this thing.
Give this a watch if you can (36 minutes), or have it play as background, there is nothing to watch. An interview with Knut Witkowski, one who said nothing should have been done back last March and April. This is a catch up video a year later and his opinions are unchanged. His first video was removed from youtube as well, go figure right.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4wIsshE4Q4
Or more specifically, states with governors who took it seriously. I say that because Ohio did well and DeWine and Hogan were strong leaders on this front.
Since this board loves the line of, "500,000 Americans couldn't be reached" (so juicy BTW) and likes to keep pointing out the death count, let me choose the metric of deaths per million people...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
We could do this all day, so again, you are given the keys, how are you driving this car? And this is a year into it, we should be able to see a lot clearer now... Saw things.... Saw things.... Saw things... CLEARER!!!
can't wait for the "you can't compare new zealand to the US" . just like the gun retort. imagine that.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
No dude, my data is historic with a base of 31MM. To prove it, take your link and sort by cases/1 MM and you will see the same states float to the top. Read more carefully.gvn2fly1421 said:
Ok, so you post a link claiming victory on one metric, that metric being current cases? One year into this thing? You realize we could post data back and forth that suggests red states did better on one metric and blue states did better on another. You chose the current case count.mrussel1 said:
Sure did.. and overall blue states did better. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/gvn2fly1421 said:
He didn't though. What is so hard to understand about this? He did half measures. "Two weeks to flatten" and "slow the spread"... He left it to individual states to come up with their own mandates and what happened? Blue states and red states were totally different and had differing results.mrussel1 said:
He did nothing... so why do you think he botched it? Half million dead is a stunning success I guess. If only it could have been more.gvn2fly1421 said:
My opinion, he should have done nothing. By doing nothing, the virus spreads more quickly and herd immunity is reached sooner.PJNB said:
How did Trump botch the handling of it?gvn2fly1421 said:
I have stated several times that Trump botched the handling of it. Now, do the "Blue" states?mrussel1 said:
Completely agree. There's no question that Trump's abdication of responsibility and complete denial of the danger was rooted in his fear of losing the election if the economy went down. Of course the sad irony is that he lost the election precisely because of his denial. He had his moment, the one where a president gets to rally the country in a common cause, but he blew it. This is because he's an idiot, a narcissist and completely lacks strategic thinking and the ability to calculate second order effects. His capacity to only think tactically is a death blow to a leader/gvn2fly1421 said:
It's almost like the whole response to this thing was not driven by science, but by..... politics.23scidoo said:
Scientists have different opinions..Poncier said:
Science is not an opinion.23scidoo said:
Also characterized one person to another, without know shit about the other person, just because they have different opinions..mrussel1 said:This thread is stupid at this point. People posting shit from twitter, things opined about a year ago when we had little information, etc. It's so disingenuous. But seriously, keep fighting the fight that COVID isn't real. Maybe we'll re-do the election so Trump can win while we're at it.
By going the "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "slow the spread" route, all we did is prolong this thing.
Give this a watch if you can (36 minutes), or have it play as background, there is nothing to watch. An interview with Knut Witkowski, one who said nothing should have been done back last March and April. This is a catch up video a year later and his opinions are unchanged. His first video was removed from youtube as well, go figure right.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4wIsshE4Q4
Or more specifically, states with governors who took it seriously. I say that because Ohio did well and DeWine and Hogan were strong leaders on this front.
Since this board loves the line of, "500,000 Americans couldn't be reached" (so juicy BTW) and likes to keep pointing out the death count, let me choose the metric of deaths per million people...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
We could do this all day, so again, you are given the keys, how are you driving this car? And this is a year into it, we should be able to see a lot clearer now... Saw things.... Saw things.... Saw things... CLEARER!!!0 -
I mean there is trolling and then there is this. This is not trolling. This is someone that is inconvenienced from an imported Chinese virus and he wants his freedom back no matter the cost. How the fuck anyone can think herd immunity without people getting vaccinated is the way to go is beyond me 1 year into this. Lets ignore the deaths, lets ignore the healthcare systems being over run, lets ignore Grammy and Gramps dying but hey they were old and had a great life anyways. People die life goes on!
I am curious what you think the death rate is of this virus. For you to think herd immunity would work without vaccines you would have to think that those 500,000 plus deaths in the US are not real. How convenient it must be to just ignore something as serious as those deaths.
Also lets take a look at a state called North Dakota. You may have heard of it. Compare that to a province called New Brunswick. I doubt you have heard of it. These two areas are roughly the same size geographically. They also have a similar population. This is the best example out there that I can find that shows how one area failed miserably and one area succeeded and is considered one of the safest places in the world to live during covid.
104,000 cases in ND
1670 cases in NB
1499 deaths in ND
31 deaths in NB
Why is there such a difference do you think? That is not a small amount of difference either. We are talking 48 times more deaths and 62 times more cases. Herd Immunity works though right by just infecting everyone? Well it works for you probably since you are in the low risk bracket. Fuck everyone else right!0 -
Now do deaths... 500,000 couldn't be reached to sort by deaths... Am I doing this right? You guys seem to always point to the death toll, until it doesn't fit your narrative.mrussel1 said:
No dude, my data is historic with a base of 31MM. To prove it, take your link and sort by cases/1 MM and you will see the same states float to the top. Read more carefully.gvn2fly1421 said:
Ok, so you post a link claiming victory on one metric, that metric being current cases? One year into this thing? You realize we could post data back and forth that suggests red states did better on one metric and blue states did better on another. You chose the current case count.mrussel1 said:
Sure did.. and overall blue states did better. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/gvn2fly1421 said:
He didn't though. What is so hard to understand about this? He did half measures. "Two weeks to flatten" and "slow the spread"... He left it to individual states to come up with their own mandates and what happened? Blue states and red states were totally different and had differing results.mrussel1 said:
He did nothing... so why do you think he botched it? Half million dead is a stunning success I guess. If only it could have been more.gvn2fly1421 said:
My opinion, he should have done nothing. By doing nothing, the virus spreads more quickly and herd immunity is reached sooner.PJNB said:
How did Trump botch the handling of it?gvn2fly1421 said:
I have stated several times that Trump botched the handling of it. Now, do the "Blue" states?mrussel1 said:
Completely agree. There's no question that Trump's abdication of responsibility and complete denial of the danger was rooted in his fear of losing the election if the economy went down. Of course the sad irony is that he lost the election precisely because of his denial. He had his moment, the one where a president gets to rally the country in a common cause, but he blew it. This is because he's an idiot, a narcissist and completely lacks strategic thinking and the ability to calculate second order effects. His capacity to only think tactically is a death blow to a leader/gvn2fly1421 said:
It's almost like the whole response to this thing was not driven by science, but by..... politics.23scidoo said:
Scientists have different opinions..Poncier said:
Science is not an opinion.23scidoo said:
Also characterized one person to another, without know shit about the other person, just because they have different opinions..mrussel1 said:This thread is stupid at this point. People posting shit from twitter, things opined about a year ago when we had little information, etc. It's so disingenuous. But seriously, keep fighting the fight that COVID isn't real. Maybe we'll re-do the election so Trump can win while we're at it.
By going the "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "slow the spread" route, all we did is prolong this thing.
Give this a watch if you can (36 minutes), or have it play as background, there is nothing to watch. An interview with Knut Witkowski, one who said nothing should have been done back last March and April. This is a catch up video a year later and his opinions are unchanged. His first video was removed from youtube as well, go figure right.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4wIsshE4Q4
Or more specifically, states with governors who took it seriously. I say that because Ohio did well and DeWine and Hogan were strong leaders on this front.
Since this board loves the line of, "500,000 Americans couldn't be reached" (so juicy BTW) and likes to keep pointing out the death count, let me choose the metric of deaths per million people...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
We could do this all day, so again, you are given the keys, how are you driving this car? And this is a year into it, we should be able to see a lot clearer now... Saw things.... Saw things.... Saw things... CLEARER!!!0 -
0
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gvn2fly1421 said:
Brainy, my man! Like I asked PJNB, you are given the keys to the kingdom, how are you handling it?F Me In The Brain said:Do nothing is the answer?That explains a lot.I could never be President, too many skeletons in my own closet. Also, what an awful job -- would not want it.But, I will play along.....I would for 100% certainty, do something.Doing nothing is the worst thing I could imagine doing in the face of a global pandemic threatening thousands (hundreds of thousands) American lives.The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
Is your argument that certain states have better health systems and COVID treatments than other states? That would have be your argument. I would say that deaths are going to be driven by the timing of the infection (earlier infections were likely more deadly because treatements weren't developed), by the age of the population, by the hospital capacity.gvn2fly1421 said:
Now do deaths... 500,000 couldn't be reached to sort by deaths... Am I doing this right? You guys seem to always point to the death toll, until it doesn't fit your narrative.mrussel1 said:
No dude, my data is historic with a base of 31MM. To prove it, take your link and sort by cases/1 MM and you will see the same states float to the top. Read more carefully.gvn2fly1421 said:
Ok, so you post a link claiming victory on one metric, that metric being current cases? One year into this thing? You realize we could post data back and forth that suggests red states did better on one metric and blue states did better on another. You chose the current case count.mrussel1 said:
Sure did.. and overall blue states did better. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/gvn2fly1421 said:
He didn't though. What is so hard to understand about this? He did half measures. "Two weeks to flatten" and "slow the spread"... He left it to individual states to come up with their own mandates and what happened? Blue states and red states were totally different and had differing results.mrussel1 said:
He did nothing... so why do you think he botched it? Half million dead is a stunning success I guess. If only it could have been more.gvn2fly1421 said:
My opinion, he should have done nothing. By doing nothing, the virus spreads more quickly and herd immunity is reached sooner.PJNB said:
How did Trump botch the handling of it?gvn2fly1421 said:
I have stated several times that Trump botched the handling of it. Now, do the "Blue" states?mrussel1 said:
Completely agree. There's no question that Trump's abdication of responsibility and complete denial of the danger was rooted in his fear of losing the election if the economy went down. Of course the sad irony is that he lost the election precisely because of his denial. He had his moment, the one where a president gets to rally the country in a common cause, but he blew it. This is because he's an idiot, a narcissist and completely lacks strategic thinking and the ability to calculate second order effects. His capacity to only think tactically is a death blow to a leader/gvn2fly1421 said:
It's almost like the whole response to this thing was not driven by science, but by..... politics.23scidoo said:
Scientists have different opinions..Poncier said:
Science is not an opinion.23scidoo said:
Also characterized one person to another, without know shit about the other person, just because they have different opinions..mrussel1 said:This thread is stupid at this point. People posting shit from twitter, things opined about a year ago when we had little information, etc. It's so disingenuous. But seriously, keep fighting the fight that COVID isn't real. Maybe we'll re-do the election so Trump can win while we're at it.
By going the "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "slow the spread" route, all we did is prolong this thing.
Give this a watch if you can (36 minutes), or have it play as background, there is nothing to watch. An interview with Knut Witkowski, one who said nothing should have been done back last March and April. This is a catch up video a year later and his opinions are unchanged. His first video was removed from youtube as well, go figure right.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4wIsshE4Q4
Or more specifically, states with governors who took it seriously. I say that because Ohio did well and DeWine and Hogan were strong leaders on this front.
Since this board loves the line of, "500,000 Americans couldn't be reached" (so juicy BTW) and likes to keep pointing out the death count, let me choose the metric of deaths per million people...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
We could do this all day, so again, you are given the keys, how are you driving this car? And this is a year into it, we should be able to see a lot clearer now... Saw things.... Saw things.... Saw things... CLEARER!!!
Under your 'strategy' to just go herd immunity, there would be no way to control deaths. Deaths are a result of infections, and then the other factors I identified take over. Gov't and hospitals are relatively powerless at that point.
And don't say "you guys", I'm making my points and you are making yours. And your entire other point is out the door because you failed to read the data properly.Post edited by mrussel1 on0 -
You comment on PJNB's North Dakota vs New Brunswick comparison intelligently then I'll comment on this.gvn2fly1421 said:This weekend we rock Portland0 -
Right there with you my man...F Me In The Brain said:gvn2fly1421 said:
Brainy, my man! Like I asked PJNB, you are given the keys to the kingdom, how are you handling it?F Me In The Brain said:Do nothing is the answer?That explains a lot.I could never be President, too many skeletons in my own closet. Also, what an awful job -- would not want it.But, I will play along.....I would for 100% certainty, do something.Doing nothing is the worst thing I could imagine doing in the face of a global pandemic threatening thousands (hundreds of thousands) American lives.
Bu what? What would "something" look like? I should have added protect the elderly in my "do nothing" scenario as well. That is all I would do if the problem was given to me to solve.
If under my scenario, we protected the elderly and essentially did nothing, would the results look different than all the half-cocked measures we did?0 -
Totally honest here, I have no idea on New Brunswick and anything covid related to them. Will look into it.Poncier said:
You comment on PJNB's North Dakota vs New Brunswick comparison intelligently then I'll comment on this.gvn2fly1421 said:0 -
Who is arguing for the shitty half ass nothing Trump did? Worse, his administration put in some reasonable measures that he undermined daily.gvn2fly1421 said:
Right there with you my man...F Me In The Brain said:gvn2fly1421 said:
Brainy, my man! Like I asked PJNB, you are given the keys to the kingdom, how are you handling it?F Me In The Brain said:Do nothing is the answer?That explains a lot.I could never be President, too many skeletons in my own closet. Also, what an awful job -- would not want it.But, I will play along.....I would for 100% certainty, do something.Doing nothing is the worst thing I could imagine doing in the face of a global pandemic threatening thousands (hundreds of thousands) American lives.
Bu what? What would "something" look like? I should have added protect the elderly in my "do nothing" scenario as well. That is all I would do if the problem was given to me to solve.
If under my scenario, we protected the elderly and essentially did nothing, would the results look different than all the half-cocked measures we did?0 -
Here are the death rates per 100,000 people since 1/21/2020. Straight from CDC.
Post edited by PJPOWER on0 -
OK.gvn2fly1421 said:
Totally honest here, I have no idea on New Brunswick and anything covid related to them. Will look into it.Poncier said:
You comment on PJNB's North Dakota vs New Brunswick comparison intelligently then I'll comment on this.gvn2fly1421 said:
As for your post. Within the video, it clearly states that testing is at a much lower rate in the states with lowering cases vs. the states with rising rates, very simple math there.
Coupled with temperatures (remember last summer when the entire country had lower numbers) that's 2 very simple factors. Folks in the south can spend much more time outdoors in March/April than folks in the northeast and midwest. And its been proven that the virus spreads far easier indoors than it does outdoors.This weekend we rock Portland0
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