* -- PROCESSING Your Philadelphia 76ers -- *

Wobbie · February 2021

The Juggler said:

Wobbie said:

The Juggler said:

Trust thee motherfucking process.

fultz? noel?

I like Nerlens. Fultz was a disaster taken by the regime Adam Silver foisted upon us after Hinkie left. I did like it at the time, though. But yeah that was a swing and a miss. Getting Jo and Ben was worth 3 seasons of poor basketball though. No doubt.

As a Pac12 guy, I never "got" fultz. lonzo was similarly over rated. lamelo is a different story.

The Juggler · February 2021

Cliffy6745 said:

He still needs to shoot.

Complaining about embiid is a weird flex

Barkley said it perfectly the other night. Something like “Ben will be an all star for his whole career if he doesn’t improve one bit. He will never be a superstar until he can shoot the ball a little.” You generally need a couple superstars to win championships.

I’ll take Aggressive Ben until the jumper comes, but Chuck’s right.

RiotZact · February 2021

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

He still needs to shoot.

Complaining about embiid is a weird flex

Barkley said it perfectly the other night. Something like “Ben will be an all star for his whole career if he doesn’t improve one bit. He will never be a superstar until he can shoot the ball a little.” You generally need a couple superstars to win championships.

I’ll take Aggressive Ben until the jumper comes, but Chuck’s right.

I would say this is true only if you would also not consider Giannis a superstar. I refuse to see how 28.5% from 3 and his lower than 35% from midrange (considered to be the most inefficient shot on the court, even for those that are decent at it) is anything other than a net negative for his team.

His superstardom is based on his ability to get to the paint and score once he’s there, his playmaking, and his defense. He’s just way better than Ben at the “score once he’s there” part.

Poncier · February 2021

RiotZact said:

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

He still needs to shoot.

Complaining about embiid is a weird flex

Barkley said it perfectly the other night. Something like “Ben will be an all star for his whole career if he doesn’t improve one bit. He will never be a superstar until he can shoot the ball a little.” You generally need a couple superstars to win championships.

I’ll take Aggressive Ben until the jumper comes, but Chuck’s right.

I would say this is true only if you would also not consider Giannis a superstar. I refuse to see how 28.5% from 3 and his lower than 35% from midrange (considered to be the most inefficient shot on the court, even for those that are decent at it) is anything other than a net negative for his team.

His superstardom is based on his ability to get to the paint and score once he’s there, his playmaking, and his defense. He’s just way better than Ben at the “score once he’s there” part.

Yeah but they play 2 different positions. Giannis is either a 4 or a 5. Outside shooting, while far more prominent for bigs in today's NBA, is not generally considered as necessary a component of their game as it is for guards, which Ben is as a 1.

The Juggler · February 2021

RiotZact said:

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

He still needs to shoot.

Complaining about embiid is a weird flex

Barkley said it perfectly the other night. Something like “Ben will be an all star for his whole career if he doesn’t improve one bit. He will never be a superstar until he can shoot the ball a little.” You generally need a couple superstars to win championships.

I’ll take Aggressive Ben until the jumper comes, but Chuck’s right.

I would say this is true only if you would also not consider Giannis a superstar. I refuse to see how 28.5% from 3 and his lower than 35% from midrange (considered to be the most inefficient shot on the court, even for those that are decent at it) is anything other than a net negative for his team.

His superstardom is based on his ability to get to the paint and score once he’s there, his playmaking, and his defense. He’s just way better than Ben at the “score once he’s there” part.

But isn't the knock on Giannis in the playoffs, that he hurts the Bucks because he's so inefficient from outside? He's considered a superstar because he is better than just about anyone in the league at getting to the basket. I'd say he is the exception to the rule in that regard.

The game slows down in the playoffs and last year the Heat were able to play off him so much because they had no fear he was going to make a shot. In the half court with Ben, defenses also are not afraid of him but since he doesn't shoot at all, he has a tendency to just disappear for stretches. Both guys will greatly benefit from being able to shoot the ball....it's even more true on a team like the Sixers that revolves around a 7 foot center that needs spacing.

We've talked about this before....if he's not going to shoot, the next best version of him is being aggressive and not being afraid of going to the line. And he's really been fantastic the last few weeks since that aggression level kicked up a notch. Maybe almost being traded flipped a switch or something.

Ben has also been so much better at the free throw line. He's getting to the line more and making them at a higher clip. That's very encouraging to me.

RiotZact · February 2021

The Juggler said:

RiotZact said:

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

He still needs to shoot.

Complaining about embiid is a weird flex

Barkley said it perfectly the other night. Something like “Ben will be an all star for his whole career if he doesn’t improve one bit. He will never be a superstar until he can shoot the ball a little.” You generally need a couple superstars to win championships.

I’ll take Aggressive Ben until the jumper comes, but Chuck’s right.

I would say this is true only if you would also not consider Giannis a superstar. I refuse to see how 28.5% from 3 and his lower than 35% from midrange (considered to be the most inefficient shot on the court, even for those that are decent at it) is anything other than a net negative for his team.

His superstardom is based on his ability to get to the paint and score once he’s there, his playmaking, and his defense. He’s just way better than Ben at the “score once he’s there” part.

But isn't the knock on Giannis in the playoffs, that he hurts the Bucks because he's so inefficient from outside? He's considered a superstar because he is better than just about anyone in the league at getting to the basket. I'd say he is the exception to the rule in that regard.

The game slows down in the playoffs and last year the Heat were able to play off him so much because they had no fear he was going to make a shot. In the half court with Ben, defenses also are not afraid of him but since he doesn't shoot at all, he has a tendency to just disappear for stretches. Both guys will greatly benefit from being able to shoot the ball....it's even more true on a team like the Sixers that revolves around a 7 foot center that needs spacing.

We've talked about this before....if he's not going to shoot, the next best version of him is being aggressive and not being afraid of going to the line. And he's really been fantastic the last few weeks since that aggression level kicked up a notch. Maybe almost being traded flipped a switch or something.

Ben has also been so much better at the free throw line. He's getting to the line more and making them at a higher clip. That's very encouraging to me.

Yeah I agree with everything here. That is why he’s criticized and he certainly does seem to be an exception, but I think Ben could be an exception too if he made some improvements besides just his jumper. Probably not likely, but not impossible.

Poncier said:

RiotZact said:

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

He still needs to shoot.

Complaining about embiid is a weird flex

Barkley said it perfectly the other night. Something like “Ben will be an all star for his whole career if he doesn’t improve one bit. He will never be a superstar until he can shoot the ball a little.” You generally need a couple superstars to win championships.

I’ll take Aggressive Ben until the jumper comes, but Chuck’s right.

I would say this is true only if you would also not consider Giannis a superstar. I refuse to see how 28.5% from 3 and his lower than 35% from midrange (considered to be the most inefficient shot on the court, even for those that are decent at it) is anything other than a net negative for his team.

His superstardom is based on his ability to get to the paint and score once he’s there, his playmaking, and his defense. He’s just way better than Ben at the “score once he’s there” part.

Yeah but they play 2 different positions. Giannis is either a 4 or a 5. Outside shooting, while far more prominent for bigs in today's NBA, is not generally considered as necessary a component of their game as it is for guards, which Ben is as a 1.

Meh, position doesn’t really matter. Giannis brings the ball up plenty for the Bucks and Simmons gets plenty of minutes at the 4/5. Plus, aren’t most star 4s expected to shoot 3s now days? Look at each of our favorite teams, Tatum and Tobias are arguably the most important shooters on their teams.

Poncier · February 2021

RiotZact said:

The Juggler said:

RiotZact said:

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

He still needs to shoot.

Complaining about embiid is a weird flex

Barkley said it perfectly the other night. Something like “Ben will be an all star for his whole career if he doesn’t improve one bit. He will never be a superstar until he can shoot the ball a little.” You generally need a couple superstars to win championships.

I’ll take Aggressive Ben until the jumper comes, but Chuck’s right.

I would say this is true only if you would also not consider Giannis a superstar. I refuse to see how 28.5% from 3 and his lower than 35% from midrange (considered to be the most inefficient shot on the court, even for those that are decent at it) is anything other than a net negative for his team.

His superstardom is based on his ability to get to the paint and score once he’s there, his playmaking, and his defense. He’s just way better than Ben at the “score once he’s there” part.

But isn't the knock on Giannis in the playoffs, that he hurts the Bucks because he's so inefficient from outside? He's considered a superstar because he is better than just about anyone in the league at getting to the basket. I'd say he is the exception to the rule in that regard.

The game slows down in the playoffs and last year the Heat were able to play off him so much because they had no fear he was going to make a shot. In the half court with Ben, defenses also are not afraid of him but since he doesn't shoot at all, he has a tendency to just disappear for stretches. Both guys will greatly benefit from being able to shoot the ball....it's even more true on a team like the Sixers that revolves around a 7 foot center that needs spacing.

We've talked about this before....if he's not going to shoot, the next best version of him is being aggressive and not being afraid of going to the line. And he's really been fantastic the last few weeks since that aggression level kicked up a notch. Maybe almost being traded flipped a switch or something.

Ben has also been so much better at the free throw line. He's getting to the line more and making them at a higher clip. That's very encouraging to me.

Yeah I agree with everything here. That is why he’s criticized and he certainly does seem to be an exception, but I think Ben could be an exception too if he made some improvements besides just his jumper. Probably not likely, but not impossible.

Poncier said:

RiotZact said:

The Juggler said:

Cliffy6745 said:

He still needs to shoot.

Complaining about embiid is a weird flex

Barkley said it perfectly the other night. Something like “Ben will be an all star for his whole career if he doesn’t improve one bit. He will never be a superstar until he can shoot the ball a little.” You generally need a couple superstars to win championships.

I’ll take Aggressive Ben until the jumper comes, but Chuck’s right.

I would say this is true only if you would also not consider Giannis a superstar. I refuse to see how 28.5% from 3 and his lower than 35% from midrange (considered to be the most inefficient shot on the court, even for those that are decent at it) is anything other than a net negative for his team.

His superstardom is based on his ability to get to the paint and score once he’s there, his playmaking, and his defense. He’s just way better than Ben at the “score once he’s there” part.

Yeah but they play 2 different positions. Giannis is either a 4 or a 5. Outside shooting, while far more prominent for bigs in today's NBA, is not generally considered as necessary a component of their game as it is for guards, which Ben is as a 1.

Meh, position doesn’t really matter. Giannis brings the ball up plenty for the Bucks and Simmons gets plenty of minutes at the 4/5. Plus, aren’t most star 4s expected to shoot 3s now days? Look at each of our favorite teams, Tatum and Tobias are arguably the most important shooters on their teams.

Well Giannis is a 4/5, not pure 4. And Tatum and Harris are really both 3s.

RiotZact · February 2021

I think you could just as easily say Giannis is a 3 and takes turns at the 1. These labels really don’t mean much.

But even if we do look at it like that, we’re talking about players’ status as “superstars” right? How many superstar 5s are there? By my count there’s 2, and they both have pretty killer jump shots, so I’m still not sure what this has to do with how vital a quality jump shot is to someone’s status as a superstar.

eeriepadave · February 2021

Last nights game was tough. Couldn't make any free throws and turnovers hurt.

The Juggler · February 2021

eeriepadave said:

Last nights game was tough. Couldn't make any free throws and turnovers hurt.

Horrible loss. Could’ve picked up a game in the Nets too.

RiotZact · February 2021

Yeah I’d say that’s the worst loss of the year so far. Absolutely no one stepped up to take Tobi’s place. Curry could not have been worse.

The Juggler · March 2021

RiotZact said:

Yeah I’d say that’s the worst loss of the year so far. Absolutely no one stepped up to take Tobi’s place. Curry could not have been worse.

Hey after reading Bodner's article over the weekend, I've changed my mind on the Lowry trade prospects. Good call.

If Morey can't land a bigger fish for a reasonable price, I would be open to this--

Likes: Kyle Lowry’s game

Lowry has had one of the more interesting career arcs among modern-day NBA point guards, having not really found his footing as an impact player in the NBA until he was nearly in his late 20s, then defying the expected decline year after year until we got to this point, where he’s a nearly 35-year-old point guard still putting up 18.0 points, 5.5 rebounds and 6.5 assists per game on excellent efficiency, helping to lead the yet-again overachieving Raptors towards another playoff run.

There’s some year-to-year deviation, both in Lowry’s effectiveness from the perimeter and also in his advanced statistical profile, but the range typically goes from “really good” to “borderline All-NBA,” and this year falls within that spectrum.

Lowry’s one of those players whose game would be a near-perfect fit alongside Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid. He can push the tempo or play in the half court, function as a setup man or scorer in the pick-and-roll, and has enough off-ball shooting chops to share the court alongside Simmons in a two point guard lineup, with both ball handlers able to push the pace. Lowry’s addition would help the team succeed in both transition and the half court. In addition, Lowry is still a plus defender for his position, despite his advancing age and lack of height. Lowry has a strong lower body, more multi-positional equity than virtually any 6-foot point guard, is an excellent, tenacious team defender, an enthusiastic and skilled actor, and on point with his defensive rotations and understanding of defensive schemes.

There really isn’t too much to talk about here. Lowry has been a fixture in the Eastern Conference for so long that what he brings to the table should be very well known, and his play has aged well enough that we’re still talking about mostly the same player we’ve seen in recent years.

Lowry, Simmons, Embiid and Harris would form a solid foundation on both ends of the court. Once you get beyond the Bradley Beals of the world and move on to players who could realistically become available and obtainable, Lowry’s near the top of the list of players who could make an impact for this upcoming playoff run.

RiotZact · March 2021

^^ Yeah I’m honestly thinking he is best case scenario at this point.

I really just hope that the Raptors don’t think that they can actually make a deep run in this playoffs. Maybe they can keep this hot streak up, but does anyone actually believe that they could beat the Nets, Sixers, or Bucks in a 7 game series? I hope that they aren’t under that delusion, because that would probably be the biggest thing keeping them from trading him.

I’m not sure what rumors you were hearing, but I’m pretty sure LaVine is a pipe dream at this point. I’ve heard that the bulls are not listening to offers for him. I’m sure if someone made them an offer they couldn’t refuse, like Simmons or a war chest of 1st rounders, then they might listen. But I really don’t think Morey is going to overpay for someone like that.

The Juggler · March 2021

RiotZact said:

^^ Yeah I’m honestly thinking he is best case scenario at this point.

I really just hope that the Raptors don’t think that they can actually make a deep run in this playoffs. Maybe they can keep this hot streak up, but does anyone actually believe that they could beat the Nets, Sixers, or Bucks in a 7 game series? I hope that they aren’t under that delusion, because that would probably be the biggest thing keeping them from trading him.

I’m not sure what rumors you were hearing, but I’m pretty sure LaVine is a pipe dream at this point. I’ve heard that the bulls are not listening to offers for him. I’m sure if someone made them an offer they couldn’t refuse, like Simmons or a war chest of 1st rounders, then they might listen. But I really don’t think Morey is going to overpay for someone like that.

The war chest of future picks was what I was seeing. All speculation. A lot can happen in a few weeks. At least we have a GM that we can trust to make the right moves again.

Raptors success over the last few weeks was mostly without Lowry so maybe that helps their decision making. They're not wining it all this year regardless.

RiotZact · March 2021

The Juggler said:

RiotZact said:

^^ Yeah I’m honestly thinking he is best case scenario at this point.

I really just hope that the Raptors don’t think that they can actually make a deep run in this playoffs. Maybe they can keep this hot streak up, but does anyone actually believe that they could beat the Nets, Sixers, or Bucks in a 7 game series? I hope that they aren’t under that delusion, because that would probably be the biggest thing keeping them from trading him.

I’m not sure what rumors you were hearing, but I’m pretty sure LaVine is a pipe dream at this point. I’ve heard that the bulls are not listening to offers for him. I’m sure if someone made them an offer they couldn’t refuse, like Simmons or a war chest of 1st rounders, then they might listen. But I really don’t think Morey is going to overpay for someone like that.

The war chest of future picks was what I was seeing. All speculation. A lot can happen in a few weeks. At least we have a GM that we can trust to make the right moves again.

Raptors success over the last few weeks was mostly without Lowry so maybe that helps their decision making. They're not wining it all this year regardless.

Yeah I was hoping that would help too! I really don’t think he moves the needle much for them because FVV basically has the same skill set.

The difference between trading for LaVine and Lowry, to me, is how long it screws you for if it doesn’t work out. For example, let’s say, (god forbid) that Embiid isn’t able to stay healthy or he has an extremely short prime. If you trade the farm for LaVine then you’re basically looking at Simmons and LaVine as your core for the future (that’s if you can talk them into staying) and having almost nothing to work with to build around them, whether it be the picks themselves that turn into hypothetical good young players, or having them as assets to trade. But in Lowry’s case, you’re probably giving up Maxey and this years 1st rounder, which isn’t likely to be very good. So if it doesn’t work out then Lowry retires eventually, you have a bunch of picks to either use or trade, and you likely free up a good bit of money to sign other guys to build around Simmons for the future.

I think the primary objective needs to be winning a championship, like now. Maybe looking forward to next year at the most. And if you’re thinking only that far into the future, then I think LaVine and Lowry move the needle about the same amount, so why not go for the guy that would cost way less and is a proven winner?

The Juggler · March 2021

Well we disagree about how far each is moving the needle. I think Lavine is the better fit, even though I now agree that Lowry would fit well.

But Lavine is also locked up through next year and is making less than Lowry. So that definitely plays a factor. Would suck if they gave up some decent assets for Lowry, didn't win it all or at least get to the Finals, and then he walks in the summer. At least with Lavine you'll know you have at least a couple shots. He's like 10 years younger too, obviously.

RiotZact · March 2021

The Juggler said:

Well we disagree about how far each is moving the needle. I think Lavine is the better fit, even though I now agree that Lowry would fit well.

But Lavine is also locked up through next year and is making less than Lowry. So that definitely plays a factor. Would suck if they gave up some decent assets for Lowry, didn't win it all or at least get to the Finals, and then he walks in the summer. At least with Lavine you'll know you have at least a couple shots. He's like 10 years younger too, obviously.

I think LaVine would be much more of a wild card. I agree that he has the potential to be just what the doctor ordered, but it’s hard to say because he’s been putting up great numbers on a pretty mediocre team. That’s a lot different than Lowry, who has proven that he can play at a very high level regardless of the talent around him. LaVine has a very high usage rate and I’m not sure how that will translate to a team that already has a mega star, an all star, and a borderline all star.

For example: if you’re a bulls fan right now and LaVine starts the game out 0/5 from 3, you’re probably thinking to yourself “Well this blows, but what the fuck else are we going to do?! Might as well keep chucking them Zach!”

But imagine that same situation on the Sixers. Can you really justify giving him the green light to keep shooting on a night like that when you have Joel in the post? Plus Ben and Tobi are missing chances.

Now he might end up at 5/10 on a night like that if he keeps chucking, but the Bulls are much more likely to have patience with him in that situation than the Sixers would.

Also, all this goes without bringing up defense. The Nets are scary. And Danny Green just ain't gonna cut it against any of those guys. Lowry would probably be about as good as it gets against Kyrie, and then Ben can handle one of the other two while Joel is protecting the rim. Then throw Thybulle on top of that! Can you imagine? Lowry on Kyrie, Thybulle on Harden, Ben on KD, and Joel lying in wait just in case any of them get blown by? I’d be having cold sweats just thinking about it if I was Steve Nash.

RiotZact · March 2021

Also, I’d bet my left nut that Lowry would resign with his hometown team in the offseason.

The Juggler · March 2021

Lavine is shooting 44% from 3. Yeah I'd be fine with him continuing to chuck them up if he starts out cold. This team, as a whole, needs to shoot a whole lot more 3's than they've averaged this year so far.

I understand your concerns. But I see a guy who has improved his game every year he has been in the league.

RiotZact · March 2021

The Juggler said:

Lavine is shooting 44% from 3. Yeah I'd be fine with him continuing to chuck them up if he starts out cold. This team, as a whole, needs to shoot a whole lot more 3's than they've averaged this year so far.

I understand your concerns. But I see a guy who has improved his game every year he has been in the league.

Yeah he has been pretty sickening.

High quality win tonight. Makes me feel really gross that if the Nets lose tonight the Sixers could have been up 2.5 games on them if they just could have finished that fucking Cavs game.

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Likes: Kyle Lowry’s game

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Likes: Kyle Lowry’s game

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