The all-purpose heavy duty Climate Chaos thread (sprinkled with hope).

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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Zod said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    I came across this article today that is a reminder (not that all of us need to be reminded) of what will prove to be the most pressing issue of our time: Global Warming.  

    Some key points here:
    -On June 19, 2020, at 03:00 UTC, a temperature of 33.2°C or 91.8°F was recorded in Siberia near the Arctic Ocean.
    -As ocean temperatures rise, an increasing amount of heat moves into the Arctic Ocean, resulting in record low Arctic sea ice volume, as illustrated by the image on the right and discussed in an earlier post... this in turn threatens to destabilize methane hydrates contained in sediments at the seafloor of the Arctic Ocean.
    -Furthermore, the Siberian heatwave is also threatening to trigger forest fires that can cause huge amounts of emisions, including black carbon that can settle on the snow and ice cover, further speeding up its demise and causing albedo changes that result in a lot more heat getting absorbed in the Arctic, instead of getting reflected back into space as was previously the case.
    -Finally, more intense forest fires threaten to cause organic carbon compounds to enter the stratosphere and damage the ozone layer.







    So moving to Siberia to escape the humid weather is now off the table...

    if this Covid lockdown/semi lockdown goes on for another year I’d like to see how much the environment improves...its people...too many fucking people on this planet...

    I think having kids is complete selfishness ... 

    and our fucking limp - dick government gives people with kids far too much money every month.  You do not care about the environment if you are encouraging more people on this planet...

    When COVID-19 first broke out, the planet was getting a lot of relief.  But now?  I really  don't know.  I haven't seen anything more in the last  6 or 7 weeks about how much the lock-down is or isn't helping the environment.  I don't get out much, but from what I have seen and heard, it seems to me we are probably polluting more than not.

    And yeah, I agree about having kids.  I would never put down people who already have kids.  They are here, they are blameless.  But for people considering having a kid or more kids now?  I would say that is a very, very bad idea.
    Even at the height of the pandemic I think I read we only reduced global emissions by 20%.   I would of thought if the majority of the population stopped going anywhere, and stopped buying stuff, that it would reduce lower than that.  It actually made me concerned that in the biggest reduction of global movement we've ever seen that it was only 20% lower. 

    With things slowly ramping up, and China back to almost full tilt I imagine that's almost gone.

    I felt bad with a conversation I had the other day.   My thoughts can get pretty dark.   I've caught myself a few times going.. I'm in my 40's... maybe I'm old enough that I only see some of the bad, but I die of old age before it gets really really really bad.  Of course my friend has young kids, so his thought process is very much of, we need to solve this, we can solve this, we have no choice.  We argued that we need to make the environment the #1 priority.   I was trying to counter argue that people have multiple goals.   When people talk like the environment is #1, you get stuck in a trap.   Many people are short sighted.  They look at the short term.  Feeding/Clothing their kids, keeping a roof over their heads, paying the bills, etc...   They don't look at where they'll be 20, 30, or 50 years from now.   I tend to think the level of change needed to make significant environmental change, would be astronomical.   I don't even think we can do it with Capitalism.  A shift in the fundamental system society is built on is going to cause turmoil.   People want to keep what they have.   My argument was you basically need a new catchprase or theme.   like the Economic Environmental Initiative or something.  Where you figure out how to combat both at the same time.    They're both important, if you ignore the latter, you're not going to get the buy in you need to make it happen.   He really didn't like what I had to say.   I really felt like I try to come at arguments from different sides.   Sometimes I'll just pick another side to be devils advocate, even if I don't believe in what I'm saying.   Just to flesh out an argument.    I found it a struggle, that he's like we need to do this thing, but doesn't really see that other people don't think a long the same lines.    You need to get buy in globally from a species who often doesn't agree on things.  Of course in the same day I mentioned I didn't like the new ghostbusters movie, and he said it was awesome and I was misogynistic.   At least my other friend came to my defence that I'm picky and there's plenty of movies I don't like :)

    Maybe my ability to come at arguments from different sides is all in my head.  Or maybe my challenge is articulating it.



    Great post, Zod.  You really hit on the dilemma that families have to face today. 

    There's no easy answer, but I sure think your idea of finding an incentive is sensible.  But like you suggest- the timing is difficult.  No one wants to change overnight.  And yet, the one thing the pandemic has perhaps taught us is that many people, obviously not all, but a lot of people have shown the we can adapt when it's necessary.  I think it will become necessary for us to adapt to fairly quick changes relatively soon.  How soon, I really can't guess.  The pandemic changed a lot of things over night.   The catastrophic fires in the west and the economic blow they are causing will very likely ramp things up.    And the indicators (like the thousands of birds dropping dead in the U.S. southwest) are making the picture very clear. 

    I think the best thing we could so would be to have a massive scale cut back on many of our human activities, especially those involving fossil fuels.  Because related to what you said about human nature, the odds are that won't happen.  What I hope is that all the glaringly loud wake up calls Mother Nature is throwing at us will be incentive for many people to take action and scale back.  We can get by with less, re-use more, and consume more carefully, and still have a good time.  Slowing down and living more simply can actually be rewarding because you have more time to focus on things and develop creative ways to enjoy life.   Adjusting might be difficult, but it's surprising what people can adapt to when it's a matter of life and death.  I think we're at those crossroads.

    Thanks for that excellent post.  It really got me thinking.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    yeah, thanks for the great posts and that the subject is on top of discussion again....

    Today, the main theme in Germany's most influental magazine "Der Spiegel" is all related to climate change.
    The head line article points out that now we face the fear and panic, Greta has asked to feel a half year ago. And while the extreme outcome of the Climate Crisis is not somewhere experienced in Africa or Sibiria this time but in a western, rich countrly, the leading nation itself, the Journalist dares to hope that the impact of what is happening in the US right now will indeed change our thinking and awareness - at least in the Western world and at least, starting in November ;)

    ... just my 2 cents going with a big thank you for all the great contribution here!
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    breakmarysfall said:
    yeah, thanks for the great posts and that the subject is on top of discussion again....

    Today, the main theme in Germany's most influental magazine "Der Spiegel" is all related to climate change.
    The head line article points out that now we face the fear and panic, Greta has asked to feel a half year ago. And while the extreme outcome of the Climate Crisis is not somewhere experienced in Africa or Sibiria this time but in a western, rich countrly, the leading nation itself, the Journalist dares to hope that the impact of what is happening in the US right now will indeed change our thinking and awareness - at least in the Western world and at least, starting in November ;)

    ... just my 2 cents going with a big thank you for all the great contribution here!

    From what I've read, Germany's response to climate change and COVID has mostly been quite good. Well done!

    Thanks your your input here as well!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Another indication of how global warming is changing our world (and this is one fellow musicians may find a bit disturbing):

    Fender will no longer use ash bodies for production-line guitars - we found out why, and what woods will be used instead


    “Well, we’ve been racing this beetle, but then on the climate change front there are these floods that come in and recede, that’s when we go in and get the ash. We like the wood from the water, it’s more porous and that’s how we get the light swamp ash. We actually only use the bottom part of the tree, where the water is. 

    "But the floods have not been receding, so these areas are underwater for two thirds of the year and it’s gotten to the point where we are sitting there for six or eight months waiting for ash we can’t get reliably. The beetle is still coming where there’s floods or not, so it’s really narrowing down. 

    “There will be a day where there’s nothing left, and we’ve known this for three or five years. It just hit the point where we couldn’t put it in a production guitar telling everyone we can make something which we can’t get anymore. 

    "That said, there will probably be a couple more feasts and famines before the species is entirely gone. If we get ash, we’ll use it and make limited editions. But unfortunately due to the circumstances our ash production will be winding down.”




    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,375
    brianlux said:
    Another indication of how global warming is changing our world (and this is one fellow musicians may find a bit disturbing):

    Fender will no longer use ash bodies for production-line guitars - we found out why, and what woods will be used instead


    “Well, we’ve been racing this beetle, but then on the climate change front there are these floods that come in and recede, that’s when we go in and get the ash. We like the wood from the water, it’s more porous and that’s how we get the light swamp ash. We actually only use the bottom part of the tree, where the water is. 

    "But the floods have not been receding, so these areas are underwater for two thirds of the year and it’s gotten to the point where we are sitting there for six or eight months waiting for ash we can’t get reliably. The beetle is still coming where there’s floods or not, so it’s really narrowing down. 

    “There will be a day where there’s nothing left, and we’ve known this for three or five years. It just hit the point where we couldn’t put it in a production guitar telling everyone we can make something which we can’t get anymore. 

    "That said, there will probably be a couple more feasts and famines before the species is entirely gone. If we get ash, we’ll use it and make limited editions. But unfortunately due to the circumstances our ash production will be winding down.”






  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739

    Japan set to release 1.2 million tonnes of Fukushima's contaminated water into the sea


    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/world/japan-set-to-release-1-2-million-tonnes-of-fukushimas-contaminated-water-into-the-sea/wcm/30da85dc-600b-4574-a923-1581d98ad5ba?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3GlGhbut2yji6B74Bfr3BAJe_5nMcgJuvsc55agsZVOXcDMlCZb9nTDw8#Echobox=1602856622

    someday, just maybe a wise species will inhabit this earth and will not use the oceans as a dumping ground...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Meltdown99 said:

    Japan set to release 1.2 million tonnes of Fukushima's contaminated water into the sea


    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/world/japan-set-to-release-1-2-million-tonnes-of-fukushimas-contaminated-water-into-the-sea/wcm/30da85dc-600b-4574-a923-1581d98ad5ba?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3GlGhbut2yji6B74Bfr3BAJe_5nMcgJuvsc55agsZVOXcDMlCZb9nTDw8#Echobox=1602856622

    someday, just maybe a wise species will inhabit this earth and will not use the oceans as a dumping ground...

    You'd think the Japanese would have a little more respect for how fuking awful nuclear radiation is.  There are things I very much love about Japanese people and culture, and there are those things that I despise about them.  Kind of like how I feel about my country and humanity in general.  I guess we as a species are just dead set about doing ourselves in sooner than later.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,644
    327,376,000 gallons. In all fairness, what should they be doing with that volume? It’s not like they asked for or wanted a tsunami to strike.
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    327,376,000 gallons. In all fairness, what should they be doing with that volume? It’s not like they asked for or wanted a tsunami to strike.

    They practiced extreme negligence building a nuclear power plant near the coast in a part of the world where major earthquakes are always going to happen.  What they did was criminal.  As for what to do with that nuclear waste, I guess they have no other choice.  The author of this Forbes article thinks it's the best and safest thing to do:

    But I think the country should make reparations to planet earth by:
    -Shutting down all of their nuclear power plants.
    -Stop all killing of whales and other sea mammals and cut their fishing industry by 80%.
    -Begin large-scale operations to remove plastic from the ocean.
    -Create marine sanctuaries in their territorial seas. 


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,561
    edited October 2020
    brianlux said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    327,376,000 gallons. In all fairness, what should they be doing with that volume? It’s not like they asked for or wanted a tsunami to strike.

    They practiced extreme negligence building a nuclear power plant near the coast in a part of the world where major earthquakes are always going to happen.  What they did was criminal.  As for what to do with that nuclear waste, I guess they have no other choice.  The author of this Forbes article thinks it's the best and safest thing to do:

    But I think the country should make reparations to planet earth by:
    -Shutting down all of their nuclear power plants.
    -Stop all killing of whales and other sea mammals and cut their fishing industry by 80%.
    -Begin large-scale operations to remove plastic from the ocean.
    -Create marine sanctuaries in their territorial seas. 


    But I think the country should make reparations to planet earth by:
    -Shutting down all of their nuclear power plants.
    -Stop all killing of whales and other sea mammals and cut their fishing industry by 100%.
    -Begin large-scale operations to remove plastic from the ocean.
    -Create marine sanctuaries in their territorial seas.  

    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,561
    edited October 2020
    Bentleyspop said:

    Well, maybe Pearl Jam should stop wasting plastic then with them releasing a single for their new climate change-focused album with just an A-side.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    brianlux said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    327,376,000 gallons. In all fairness, what should they be doing with that volume? It’s not like they asked for or wanted a tsunami to strike.

    They practiced extreme negligence building a nuclear power plant near the coast in a part of the world where major earthquakes are always going to happen.  What they did was criminal.  As for what to do with that nuclear waste, I guess they have no other choice.  The author of this Forbes article thinks it's the best and safest thing to do:

    But I think the country should make reparations to planet earth by:
    -Shutting down all of their nuclear power plants.
    -Stop all killing of whales and other sea mammals and cut their fishing industry by 80%.
    -Begin large-scale operations to remove plastic from the ocean.
    -Create marine sanctuaries in their territorial seas. 


    But I think the country should make reparations to planet earth by:
    -Shutting down all of their nuclear power plants.
    -Stop all killing of whales and other sea mammals and cut their fishing industry by 100%.
    -Begin large-scale operations to remove plastic from the ocean.
    -Create marine sanctuaries in their territorial seas.  


    Yes, I may have been too generous!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Bentleyspop said:

    Well, maybe Pearl Jam should stop wasting plastic then with them releasing a single for their new climate change-focused album with just an A-side.

    For sure.  And climate activist Neil Young needs to do the same.  Several of his records have used an excessive amount resources over the last several years- mainly paper and paperboard, but one sided records as well.  That contradiction has long puzzled me.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Oh yeah, Teddy Boy?
    May be an image of text that says Ted Cruz tedcruz Ill believe freezes over climate change when Texas 544 PM Sep 8 2016 Twitter for iPhone 1

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739

    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Meltdown99 said:


    Gotta be hard on their backs to stand upright that way, LOL.

    I'm not a die-hard vegan or vegetarian (though do lean that way), but do believe people (especially beefy Americans) eating less beef would be helpful to the planet.  And an even bigger concern regarding methane (the main problem with cow farts) is the release of methane from melting polar ice in tundra.  That's creating a feedback loop that will exacerbate global warming. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    I just liked  the last one.  “My Fart, My Choice...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739

    I guess being more specific would .... lol
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Meltdown99 said:

    I guess being more specific would .... lol

    Laughed my ass off!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,599
    Transitioning off of oil dependence is key to saving the planet.  Obviously not all of it but making it low on the totem pole is the way to go.

    If mining lithium and making large batteries is the right way and doesn't cause even more harm to the environment then I would be ok with that.

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