Washington and Lincoln are out. S.F. school board tosses 44 school names in controversial move

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Comments

  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    Appears some folks are all for a sport team name change but outraged at school name change. Can't have a foot in both camps, I say.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    Hobbes said:
    Appears some folks are all for a sport team name change but outraged at school name change. Can't have a foot in both camps, I say.

    I sort of get where you're coming from, Hobbes, but isn't there a big difference between sports teams being after indigenous peoples who are not cool with that being done, and with American schools being named after famous American presidents?  I think so.  A big difference, right?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    brianlux said:
    Hobbes said:
    Appears some folks are all for a sport team name change but outraged at school name change. Can't have a foot in both camps, I say.

    I sort of get where you're coming from, Hobbes, but isn't there a big difference between sports teams being after indigenous peoples who are not cool with that being done, and with American schools being named after famous American presidents?  I think so.  A big difference, right?
    Big difference? Not really. One scenario is symbolic of oppression, prejudice, and racism. Choose which.


    (Spoiler: There's no wrong answer.)
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Hobbes said:
    Appears some folks are all for a sport team name change but outraged at school name change. Can't have a foot in both camps, I say.
    two completely different situations. and just so you're aware, i don't see anyone here "outraged". we're having a conversation. I have a totally open mind about this. there's a ton of american history I don't know. 

    i just get so damn tired of, instead of constructive dialogue, for some, it ends up in nothing but condescension. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Hobbes said:
    Appears some folks are all for a sport team name change but outraged at school name change. Can't have a foot in both camps, I say.
    two completely different situations. and just so you're aware, i don't see anyone here "outraged". we're having a conversation. I have a totally open mind about this. there's a ton of american history I don't know. 

    i just get so damn tired of, instead of constructive dialogue, for some, it ends up in nothing but condescension. 
    Not completely different. See my response to Brian above.
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    Hobbes said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Hobbes said:
    Appears some folks are all for a sport team name change but outraged at school name change. Can't have a foot in both camps, I say.
    two completely different situations. and just so you're aware, i don't see anyone here "outraged". we're having a conversation. I have a totally open mind about this. there's a ton of american history I don't know. 

    i just get so damn tired of, instead of constructive dialogue, for some, it ends up in nothing but condescension. 
    Not completely different. See my response to Brian above.
    Also, I think you might be reading "nothing but condescension" when it's really, in your words, "there's a ton of american history I don't know." 

    And one cannot really engage in "constructive dialogue" if one's knowledge of a subject is limited. 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,814
    Should just go to PS#xxx like they do in some places.
    Who cares what a school is called. 
    Where our son goes it is Bret Harte Elementary School.
    There are a bunch of Bret Harte schools across the country.  I bet more people think the school is named after a booger eater beloved professional wrestler called Bret Hart than a famous author/poet. 

    Call them all Public School 1, 2, 3, etc. for each town or Cherry Hill 1, 2, 3. 
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    dankind said:
    Hobbes said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Hobbes said:
    Appears some folks are all for a sport team name change but outraged at school name change. Can't have a foot in both camps, I say.
    two completely different situations. and just so you're aware, i don't see anyone here "outraged". we're having a conversation. I have a totally open mind about this. there's a ton of american history I don't know. 

    i just get so damn tired of, instead of constructive dialogue, for some, it ends up in nothing but condescension. 
    Not completely different. See my response to Brian above.
    Also, I think you might be reading "nothing but condescension" when it's really, in your words, "there's a ton of american history I don't know." 

    And one cannot really engage in "constructive dialogue" if one's knowledge of a subject is limited. 
    weird. when someone is trying to engage in dialogue with me and they admit maybe they don't know as much as someone else, I tend to help them out/educate them. like mcgruff did. he posted a link that I read. 

    others just like to give arrogant responses. 

    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Hobbes said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Hobbes said:
    Appears some folks are all for a sport team name change but outraged at school name change. Can't have a foot in both camps, I say.
    two completely different situations. and just so you're aware, i don't see anyone here "outraged". we're having a conversation. I have a totally open mind about this. there's a ton of american history I don't know. 

    i just get so damn tired of, instead of constructive dialogue, for some, it ends up in nothing but condescension. 
    Not completely different. See my response to Brian above.
    sports teams mascots and presidents of the united states are the same. ugh. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    Encouraging those to think critically and challenge their bias is not condescending nor arrogant. Self-exploration is education.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Hobbes said:
    Encouraging those to think critically and challenge their bias is not condescending nor arrogant. Self-exploration is education.
    that's not what he does. posting "that's your white privilege" or "educate yourself" is arrogant and not worth my time. I don't do it, so I expect others to not as well. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Hobbes said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Hobbes said:
    Appears some folks are all for a sport team name change but outraged at school name change. Can't have a foot in both camps, I say.
    two completely different situations. and just so you're aware, i don't see anyone here "outraged". we're having a conversation. I have a totally open mind about this. there's a ton of american history I don't know. 

    i just get so damn tired of, instead of constructive dialogue, for some, it ends up in nothing but condescension. 
    Not completely different. See my response to Brian above.
    sports teams mascots and presidents of the united states are the same. ugh. 
    If your thinking is that linear, then I suppose I can see how you would assert the two are different.
  • jerparker20
    jerparker20 St. Paul, MN Posts: 2,529
    My two cents on this whole issue:

    Stop naming anything government/publicly owned after a person, and stop erecting statutes in anyones image in public places. Any human, especially those that get elevated in the public discourse, have some shit in their background which at some point in time others will find offensive, or whatever. All of them.

    A new school needs a name, call it Rectangle Middle School, Oak Tree High School. Not offensive. New street, use a random name generator. Snail Track Drive it is.

    Want to erect a statute to commemorate someone, fine. Put up a granite block, a marble egg, whatever the preferred geometric shape is, it could even be abstract art. Put a removable placard on it with the person’s name being honored. That way 75 years from now when that person’s actions and beliefs of the time are no longer viewed as appropriate or whatnot, they can just quietly change the placard.

    I’m going to go and yell at some clouds now.
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,814
    jerparker20 said:
    My two cents on this whole issue:

    Stop naming anything government/publicly owned after a person, and stop erecting statutes in anyones image in public places. Any human, especially those that get elevated in the public discourse, have some shit in their background which at some point in time others will find offensive, or whatever. All of them.

    A new school needs a name, call it Rectangle Middle School, Oak Tree High School. Not offensive. New street, use a random name generator. Snail Track Drive it is.

    Want to erect a statute to commemorate someone, fine. Put up a granite block, a marble egg, whatever the preferred geometric shape is, it could even be abstract art. Put a removable placard on it with the person’s name being honored. That way 75 years from now when that person’s actions and beliefs of the time are no longer viewed as appropriate or whatnot, they can just quietly change the placard.

    I’m going to go and yell at some clouds now.

    That makes far too much sense for us to actually do it!  :)
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    jerparker20 said:
    My two cents on this whole issue:

    Stop naming anything government/publicly owned after a person, and stop erecting statutes in anyones image in public places. Any human, especially those that get elevated in the public discourse, have some shit in their background which at some point in time others will find offensive, or whatever. All of them.

    A new school needs a name, call it Rectangle Middle School, Oak Tree High School. Not offensive. New street, use a random name generator. Snail Track Drive it is.

    Want to erect a statute to commemorate someone, fine. Put up a granite block, a marble egg, whatever the preferred geometric shape is, it could even be abstract art. Put a removable placard on it with the person’s name being honored. That way 75 years from now when that person’s actions and beliefs of the time are no longer viewed as appropriate or whatnot, they can just quietly change the placard.

    I’m going to go and yell at some clouds now.
    I'd fully endorse this post had you wrote Snail Trail Drive instead. 
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    jerparker20 said:
    My two cents on this whole issue:

    Stop naming anything government/publicly owned after a person, and stop erecting statutes in anyones image in public places. Any human, especially those that get elevated in the public discourse, have some shit in their background which at some point in time others will find offensive, or whatever. All of them.

    A new school needs a name, call it Rectangle Middle School, Oak Tree High School. Not offensive. New street, use a random name generator. Snail Track Drive it is.

    Want to erect a statute to commemorate someone, fine. Put up a granite block, a marble egg, whatever the preferred geometric shape is, it could even be abstract art. Put a removable placard on it with the person’s name being honored. That way 75 years from now when that person’s actions and beliefs of the time are no longer viewed as appropriate or whatnot, they can just quietly change the placard.

    I’m going to go and yell at some clouds now.

    There certainly is some merit to what you are suggesting, Jer, but some drawbacks as well.  For instance, does this mean we spend million of dollars removing the tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of street signs named after people and changing them to numbers or letters of some gender/racial/religious/human neutral words like "Bullshit Boulevard", "Aardvark Avenue", or "Toilet Street"?  Sure, a lot of people would be fine with removing "Jefferson Avenue", but what about "Martin Luther King Drive" that runs through San Francisco's (a city whose name we already agree MUST be changed!) Golden Gate Park (which is too reminiscent of "Golden Showers", so better change that one too)?  Oh, the howling that would go up over that one!  And what about the French village of Passa inaugurating Avenue Jimi Hendrix in 2015?  Might be good reason to bomb France, right?!  (What I mean is whammy bar dive bombing with a Start, of course!)

    OK, enough of my joking.  I all seriousness, the one idea I will stand by here is that indigenous peoples have asked us not to refer to them in naming sports teams with Indian/native references.  Considering these are the most abused and prone to genocide people on earth, I think we need to heed their request.  The rest of this conversation is quite a bit more on the entertaining side of things!


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    As a white person, I am offended that my state is named after a slave owner. I hereby formally request a name change. Or do the Black folk in the crowd need to stand up and deliver? Should it matter?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    Hobbes said:
    As a white person, I am offended that my state is named after a slave owner. I hereby formally request a name change. Or do the Black folk in the crowd need to stand up and deliver? Should it matter?

    Huh!  And here all along I thought it has something to do with massive laundry!

    And, whoa, wait!  Do we have any black forum members?  I'm serious.  I don't know.  When I saw Pearl Jam in Missoula in 2012 I don't recall seeing one single person of color at that show.  It was a very white show!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,814
    brianlux said:
    Hobbes said:
    As a white person, I am offended that my state is named after a slave owner. I hereby formally request a name change. Or do the Black folk in the crowd need to stand up and deliver? Should it matter?

    Huh!  And here all along I thought it has something to do with massive laundry!

    And, whoa, wait!  Do we have any black forum members?  I'm serious.  I don't know.  When I saw Pearl Jam in Missoula in 2012 I don't recall seeing one single person of color at that show.  It was a very white show!

    We do.

    Also, you were in Missoula, one of the whitest places in the country.  :lol:  We went to the last show in Missoula and were excited when we saw a person of color at the airport as we went to leave town.  

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    F Me In The Brain said:
    brianlux said:
    Hobbes said:
    As a white person, I am offended that my state is named after a slave owner. I hereby formally request a name change. Or do the Black folk in the crowd need to stand up and deliver? Should it matter?

    Huh!  And here all along I thought it has something to do with massive laundry!

    And, whoa, wait!  Do we have any black forum members?  I'm serious.  I don't know.  When I saw Pearl Jam in Missoula in 2012 I don't recall seeing one single person of color at that show.  It was a very white show!

    We do.

    Also, you were in Missoula, one of the whitest places in the country.  :lol:  We went to the last show in Missoula and were excited when we saw a person of color at the airport as we went to leave town.  

    But your assumption that he was the porter was way out of line. Not cool, bro.

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