The coronavirus

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,310
    tbergs said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    Alright, try to answer some of your questions/articles...  Not all of the things quoted are your response, but rather some of the other things you linked.

    "Good morning. Travel restrictions have been one of the most effective pandemic responses — if they’re strict."

    Remember New Zealand, they absolutely crushed the virus!  They just announced today that the measures they took DID NOT do enough so they are suspending travel for most of this year. 

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/26/asia/new-zealand-covid-borders-shut-intl-hnk/index.html

    A year and a half of travel restrictions?  Could y'all imagine that here?  Hell, DJT suspended travel to China and was called "xenophobic" by our current President.  And the thing is, it still is having problems with the virus.  Virus gonna virus.

    "I don't live there, but based on what is happening in the rest of the country it comes down to a balancing act of keeping the economy from collapsing and from rampant spread of the virus all while trying to make sure the hospitals can manage their patient loads."

    Not trying to be a dick, but you exactly proved my point.  Very little science involved, but really heavy on the political science.  Show me where science references the economy?  And again, there is this new strain(s).  If everything worked before, shouldn't we lockdown harder, or double mask, to take out the new strain?

    Finally, just a little PSA for any of you with pregnant significant others, the WHO is now recommending that they do not take the Moderna vaccine.  If most are like and probably are judging by the age of the band, this will not affect many, but be careful out there.

    https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-moderna-covid-19-mrna-1273-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know

    "

    Who should not take the vaccine?

    While pregnancy puts women at a higher risk of severe COVID-19, the use of this vaccine in pregnant women is currently not recommended, unless they are at risk of high exposure (e.g. health workers).

    Individuals with a history of severe allergic reaction to any component of the vaccine should not take this or any other mRNA vaccine.

    While vaccination is recommended for older persons due to the high risk of severe COVID-19 and death, very frail older persons with an anticipated life expectancy of less than 3 months should be individually assessed.

    The vaccine should not be administered to persons younger than 18 years of age pending the results of further studies."


    I don't disagree with your assessment in the lack of science in the balancing act, but that is where we are as a country after some moronic idiot was in charge and demonized scientists and mask wearing for 10 months. Of course it's a balancing act because the little we are doing caused a bunch of morons to storm the capitol. I think we should be locked down, but I am 1 out 350 million and each governor has to consider the will of the moronic or be out of office and replaced with some nut who thinks we should be completely open. The last election proved we have 75 million people who don't really give a fuck.
    You forgot, "and jettisoned the pandemic response plan that was sitting on the shelf and knew the consequences and severity of doing nothing, lied to the American people about it and then admitted to knowing the same to a renowned journalist." And 75 million people still voted for him after that. And some think there's hope with the current crop of repubs. Please.

    I hear Mexico is living large. A little Spring Break should be in someone's future.
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,117
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    Alright, try to answer some of your questions/articles...  Not all of the things quoted are your response, but rather some of the other things you linked.

    "Good morning. Travel restrictions have been one of the most effective pandemic responses — if they’re strict."

    Remember New Zealand, they absolutely crushed the virus!  They just announced today that the measures they took DID NOT do enough so they are suspending travel for most of this year. 

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/26/asia/new-zealand-covid-borders-shut-intl-hnk/index.html

    A year and a half of travel restrictions?  Could y'all imagine that here?  Hell, DJT suspended travel to China and was called "xenophobic" by our current President.  And the thing is, it still is having problems with the virus.  Virus gonna virus.

    "I don't live there, but based on what is happening in the rest of the country it comes down to a balancing act of keeping the economy from collapsing and from rampant spread of the virus all while trying to make sure the hospitals can manage their patient loads."

    Not trying to be a dick, but you exactly proved my point.  Very little science involved, but really heavy on the political science.  Show me where science references the economy?  And again, there is this new strain(s).  If everything worked before, shouldn't we lockdown harder, or double mask, to take out the new strain?

    Finally, just a little PSA for any of you with pregnant significant others, the WHO is now recommending that they do not take the Moderna vaccine.  If most are like and probably are judging by the age of the band, this will not affect many, but be careful out there.

    https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-moderna-covid-19-mrna-1273-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know

    "

    Who should not take the vaccine?

    While pregnancy puts women at a higher risk of severe COVID-19, the use of this vaccine in pregnant women is currently not recommended, unless they are at risk of high exposure (e.g. health workers).

    Individuals with a history of severe allergic reaction to any component of the vaccine should not take this or any other mRNA vaccine.

    While vaccination is recommended for older persons due to the high risk of severe COVID-19 and death, very frail older persons with an anticipated life expectancy of less than 3 months should be individually assessed.

    The vaccine should not be administered to persons younger than 18 years of age pending the results of further studies."


    it's ALWAYS been about what the medical system can sustain without collapsing society. once you start having to choose who lives or dies, you have a real problem on your hands. if you shut down to the point that everyone is losing their homes, you also have a real problem on your hands. 

    not trying to be a dick, but this isn't difficult to understand. 
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's ALWAYS been about what the medical system can sustain without collapsing society. once you start having to choose who lives or dies, you have a real problem on your hands. if you shut down to the point that everyone is losing their homes, you also have a real problem on your hands. 

    not trying to be a dick, but this isn't difficult to understand. 
    No man, I get it.  I am glad we can have civil debate here.  I guess I go back to the states who have been wide open.  Hell, I even took my family to Florida over Christmas (Hail! Hail! the lucky ones).  Why have the healthcare systems in those states not crumbled?  Everything I have read says that if you are running a hospital and the ICU is not at 85%, you are doing something wrong and losing money. 

    If we were truly to the point of hospital collapse, do you not think our media would have been all over it?  Not showing the same hospital bed and same person on a ventilator (remember those?) over and over, yet doing some on the ground reporting of people getting turned away?

    I understand your point, I just don't see it.


  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,236
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's ALWAYS been about what the medical system can sustain without collapsing society. once you start having to choose who lives or dies, you have a real problem on your hands. if you shut down to the point that everyone is losing their homes, you also have a real problem on your hands. 

    not trying to be a dick, but this isn't difficult to understand. 
    No man, I get it.  I am glad we can have civil debate here.  I guess I go back to the states who have been wide open.  Hell, I even took my family to Florida over Christmas (Hail! Hail! the lucky ones).  Why have the healthcare systems in those states not crumbled?  Everything I have read says that if you are running a hospital and the ICU is not at 85%, you are doing something wrong and losing money. 

    If we were truly to the point of hospital collapse, do you not think our media would have been all over it?  Not showing the same hospital bed and same person on a ventilator (remember those?) over and over, yet doing some on the ground reporting of people getting turned away?

    I understand your point, I just don't see it.


    Nice solid debate here.  It s nice to hear an opposing view.  Let s all be nice and not chase this person away because they have our opposite opinion.  :)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    mcgruff10 said:
    Nice solid debate here.  It s nice to hear an opposing view.  Let s all be nice and not chase this person away because they have our opposite opinion.  :)
    For sure man!  This is great!  And I probably came on too strong initially but I hope I have at least given people something to think about.

    We are ALL in this thing together.  Let's try to find some common ground and work to a solution to end this thing for good, get people back to work, and get our children back in the classroom.
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,513
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's ALWAYS been about what the medical system can sustain without collapsing society. once you start having to choose who lives or dies, you have a real problem on your hands. if you shut down to the point that everyone is losing their homes, you also have a real problem on your hands. 

    not trying to be a dick, but this isn't difficult to understand. 
    No man, I get it.  I am glad we can have civil debate here.  I guess I go back to the states who have been wide open.  Hell, I even took my family to Florida over Christmas (Hail! Hail! the lucky ones).  Why have the healthcare systems in those states not crumbled?  Everything I have read says that if you are running a hospital and the ICU is not at 85%, you are doing something wrong and losing money. 

    If we were truly to the point of hospital collapse, do you not think our media would have been all over it?  Not showing the same hospital bed and same person on a ventilator (remember those?) over and over, yet doing some on the ground reporting of people getting turned away?

    I understand your point, I just don't see it.


    I'm not sure where you heard about ICU's losing money if not at 85%. Not every hospital is having capacity issues based on where it is located and what the current outbreak percentage. The goal is to keep numbers low and manageable to not over burden our healthcare systems. I live near a metro area that has hundreds of ICU beds, but if I travel out state that may well turn in to just 20 beds for an entire region. Neither of those numbers are extremely large when considering the population they need to support in the event of an outbreak. As I posted earlier, the main point of many lockdowns is to limit spread and help hospitals ease surge capacity so they don't have to turn people away. ICU's aren't just for Covid patients.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    tbergs said:
    I'm not sure where you heard about ICU's losing money if not at 85%. Not every hospital is having capacity issues based on where it is located and what the current outbreak percentage. The goal is to keep numbers low and manageable to not over burden our healthcare systems. I live near a metro area that has hundreds of ICU beds, but if I travel out state that may well turn in to just 20 beds for an entire region. Neither of those numbers are extremely large when considering the population they need to support in the event of an outbreak. As I posted earlier, the main point of many lockdowns is to limit spread and help hospitals ease surge capacity so they don't have to turn people away. ICU's aren't just for Covid patients.
    That was straight from a local hospital executive to me.  And "losing money" was probably a bad choice of words.  When ICU's are not at 85% capacity, they are really not making money were his words.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,975
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/cdc-school-virus-spread/2021/01/26/bf949222-5fe6-11eb-9061-07abcc1f9229_story.html

    We’ve have this school discussion a few times. Interesting data.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    Meltdown99 said:
    I prefer Nickleback...
    Man... if I had a nickle back for everytime I heard that!
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    cincybearcat said:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/cdc-school-virus-spread/2021/01/26/bf949222-5fe6-11eb-9061-07abcc1f9229_story.html

    We’ve have this school discussion a few times. Interesting data.
    The UK has said their new variant spike is partly due to youth in school settings.
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,117
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it's ALWAYS been about what the medical system can sustain without collapsing society. once you start having to choose who lives or dies, you have a real problem on your hands. if you shut down to the point that everyone is losing their homes, you also have a real problem on your hands. 

    not trying to be a dick, but this isn't difficult to understand. 
    No man, I get it.  I am glad we can have civil debate here.  I guess I go back to the states who have been wide open.  Hell, I even took my family to Florida over Christmas (Hail! Hail! the lucky ones).  Why have the healthcare systems in those states not crumbled?  Everything I have read says that if you are running a hospital and the ICU is not at 85%, you are doing something wrong and losing money. 

    If we were truly to the point of hospital collapse, do you not think our media would have been all over it?  Not showing the same hospital bed and same person on a ventilator (remember those?) over and over, yet doing some on the ground reporting of people getting turned away?

    I understand your point, I just don't see it.


    it all depends on services per state or region. some states might have a shitload of available ICU beds, and others not much. I don't know. All I know is, where I am, we are running at 110% ICU capacity. now, it's not 100% COVID cases, but my understanding is that most are. 

    interestingly, i also heard this morning that last year at this time, the ICU had nearly the same capacity of flu cases, because apparently 3 strains of the flu all converged at the same time, causing a kind of perfect storm for seasonal flu. 

    but the flu has a much smaller mortality rate, and doesn't have the same lasting debilitating effects on people that we are now seeing in some people, even young ones who haven't been symptomatic. 

    social distancing and lockdowns have basically prevented ANY community transmission (at least where I am) of this year's flu virus. which is good, otherwise our ICU's would be at 150% to 200% capacity. 
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    cincybearcat said:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/cdc-school-virus-spread/2021/01/26/bf949222-5fe6-11eb-9061-07abcc1f9229_story.html

    We’ve have this school discussion a few times. Interesting data.
    Thanks for sharing.
  • mfc2006
    mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,491
    I talked to my Mom earlier today. She’s 78 and a cancer survivor of 4 years. Her health hasn’t been great since her treatments.

    She broke down over the phone. Weeping uncontrollably because she has no idea when she will receive the vaccine. Her state (KS) and mine (MO) are doing a terrible job of providing the public with basic vaccine information. She’s terrified and lonely and it simply breaks my heart. 
    I LOVE MUSIC.
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,117
    mfc2006 said:
    I talked to my Mom earlier today. She’s 78 and a cancer survivor of 4 years. Her health hasn’t been great since her treatments.

    She broke down over the phone. Weeping uncontrollably because she has no idea when she will receive the vaccine. Her state (KS) and mine (MO) are doing a terrible job of providing the public with basic vaccine information. She’s terrified and lonely and it simply breaks my heart. 
    that's gotta be heartbreaking dude. sorry to hear. 
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,310
    mfc2006 said:
    I talked to my Mom earlier today. She’s 78 and a cancer survivor of 4 years. Her health hasn’t been great since her treatments.

    She broke down over the phone. Weeping uncontrollably because she has no idea when she will receive the vaccine. Her state (KS) and mine (MO) are doing a terrible job of providing the public with basic vaccine information. She’s terrified and lonely and it simply breaks my heart. 
    That sucks. Sorry to hear that.
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  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    mfc2006 said:
    I talked to my Mom earlier today. She’s 78 and a cancer survivor of 4 years. Her health hasn’t been great since her treatments.

    She broke down over the phone. Weeping uncontrollably because she has no idea when she will receive the vaccine. Her state (KS) and mine (MO) are doing a terrible job of providing the public with basic vaccine information. She’s terrified and lonely and it simply breaks my heart. 
    So sorry to hear this.  Praying for your mom.
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    Sorry to hear such heart breaking news. Hang in there MfC.
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,380
    mfc2006 said:
    I talked to my Mom earlier today. She’s 78 and a cancer survivor of 4 years. Her health hasn’t been great since her treatments.

    She broke down over the phone. Weeping uncontrollably because she has no idea when she will receive the vaccine. Her state (KS) and mine (MO) are doing a terrible job of providing the public with basic vaccine information. She’s terrified and lonely and it simply breaks my heart. 
    Does her PCP not have any information to give her? I am going through a similar situation with my mother in law and her PCP got her scheduled fairly easily. While we are waiting we also went ahead and signed her up at multiple locations that announced they were offering the vaccine in case they call first. Hope she is able to get it soon.
  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 15,108
    tish said:
    cincybearcat said:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/cdc-school-virus-spread/2021/01/26/bf949222-5fe6-11eb-9061-07abcc1f9229_story.html

    We’ve have this school discussion a few times. Interesting data.
    The UK has said their new variant spike is partly due to youth in school settings.
    I couldn't agree more ive been saying this and was so sure I took my kids out. And had to sign them off the  school  registration.  But I believe  its right 


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  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,675
    cutz said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    rgambs said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Went on the tram this morning, like at 8:10 in the morning.

    40% maybe had masks. With the recommendation being to use it during rush hours.
    Giesecke redeemed??
    He's gone from the spotlight. Hopefully he can be redeemed at least once more before the pandemic ends.

    rgambs said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Went on the tram this morning, like at 8:10 in the morning.

    40% maybe had masks. With the recommendation being to use it during rush hours.
    Giesecke redeemed??
    I remember some strong boasts about Swedes doing the right/smart things without needing the government to tell them to...
    The smartest people believe Sweden is doing the right/smart thing and not the right/smart thing at the same time:





    https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/swedish-prime-minister-admits-strategy-to-stop-virus-fell-short


    Swedish Prime Minister Admits Strategy to Stop Virus Fell Short Frances Schwartzkopff


    (Bloomberg) --

    Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said his government should have taken more aggressive steps and moved more quickly to stop the spread of the pandemic, and he takes full responsibility for the initial strategy that led the country to suffer a disproportionately high number of deaths.

    In an interview with Dagens Nyheter, Lofven said the government’s response to the spread of the virus among the elderly was inadequate, and that testing should have begun earlier.

    “As prime minister, I take full responsibility for the strategy that we have,” Lofven said.

    Sweden began stepping up its response to the virus only recently, after deaths, particularly among older people, rose to per-capita levels that are more than three times those of its closest regional peer, Denmark. Even King Carl XVI Gustaf has called the nation’s response a failure, a rare rebuke of the government by a Swedish monarch.

    In what many characterized as a too-little, too-late response, Sweden earlier this month enacted a new law that restricts private gatherings and allows for fines and shuttering of businesses that don’t follow restrictions such as caps on the number of visitors. Previously, authorities relied on voluntary compliance with general recommendations.

    Lofven also tried to defend the government’s approach at the outset of the pandemic, arguing that no one really knew back then how the situation would develop. Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s top epidemiologist and the chief architect behind the country’s Covid strategy, proposed the light-touch approach from the get-go, based on an idea that the virus would be around for a long time and that recurring lockdowns weren’t a practical long-term solution.

    Lofven told Dagens Nyheter that the government’s initial priority was to increase the amount of intensive care available. That shifted focus away from testing, including delaying the creation of the infrastructure needed to conduct extensive testing.

    ©2021 Bloomberg L.P.



    Not to defend Sweden or prime minister Löfven or slag your news sources named after some rich dude - but that headline and text is reaching compared to the actual interview in Dagens Nyheter. 

    He says, that in hindsight two (2) areas should have worked better - the elderly care system which wasn't as prepared as it should have been and that we should have gotten a structure up earlier for high volumes of testing. 

    He is not criticizing the strategy as a hole, as the headline - to my ears - wants it to sound like in all of its "summarizing".
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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