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Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,306
    Biden
    6 weeks in canada. 6 weeks. 

    what I find incredible in america is how people complain about the president golfing, but are ok with him travelling the country, campaigning for himself for 18 months, essentially not doing his day job. so if there's no campaigning, what else ya gonna do? might as well golf. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • ZodZod Posts: 7,409
    6 weeks in canada. 6 weeks. 

    what I find incredible in america is how people complain about the president golfing, but are ok with him travelling the country, campaigning for himself for 18 months, essentially not doing his day job. so if there's no campaigning, what else ya gonna do? might as well golf. 
    I think the subtle difference is that here in Canada I don't think the old government sits in the house for those 6 weeks.  Once a Prime Minister wins the election they become the PM.  Then nothing happens until they choose the cabinet and the house resumes?

    I always did find it odd that the old government sits in power for that length of time in the US.

  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,296
    Biden
    MayDay10 said:
    under normal circumstances, functioning adults with some sense of duty and responsibility execute the transition.

    There are a lot of moving parts to a transition.  Lots of preparation, staff, etc.  There are also the number of procedural hurdles to certify/verify the election.  

    With that said, I would love the whole process to be shrunk down.  The presidential election shouldnt take 2+ years.
    And the dumbest thing about that is that most of that time is spent during the primaries, which feature a lot of people that have no chance at winning the nomination. The actual campaign between the two general election candidates lasts only like four months. 

    Think of how much money was wasted on the campaigns of people that didn't come close to sniffing the nomination. Kamala Harris spent $25 million and didn't win a single delegate. Michael Bloomberg spent a BILLION DOLLARS and all he won was American Samoa! 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 13,135
    Biden
    It's simple: Rank Choice Voting, campaign finance reform. These two movements alone would reduce the length of elections, the power of political parties.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,306
    Biden
    It's simple: Rank Choice Voting, campaign finance reform. These two movements alone would reduce the length of elections, the power of political parties.
    imagine if all the money donated to political parties went to actual charities. this is what has always astounded me. how much money people throw at politicians. maybe they do both, I don't know. but i have a suspicion that many of those people only give money to political causes, not philanthropic ones. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 13,135
    Biden
    It's simple: Rank Choice Voting, campaign finance reform. These two movements alone would reduce the length of elections, the power of political parties.
    imagine if all the money donated to political parties went to actual charities. this is what has always astounded me. how much money people throw at politicians. maybe they do both, I don't know. but i have a suspicion that many of those people only give money to political causes, not philanthropic ones. 
    I can speak from personal experience. I do both, actually probably send more to campaigns. Because what I've personally realized is - until things change, and those that are The Haves are no longer punching down, that the only way to combat it is to give to public servants/candidates you believe in. Because it's where the real change can happen.

    If we had solid representation, then we would have solid policies that wouldn't make a charity a charity. They would be a required service that all citizens can take advantage of without the charity fearing that they won't have the funding.
  • cutzcutz Posts: 9,974
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Was Pennsylvania or any other states debated?
    PA
    Yes, PA. had an objection, but I don't think there was much of a debate about it. Senators  basically went in and and someone spoke for a few minutes and then they had the Vote(92-7).

    Did the House have a long Debate?(I went to sleep)
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 20,225
    Biden
    cutz said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Was Pennsylvania or any other states debated?
    PA
    Yes, PA. had an objection, but I don't think there was much of a debate about it. Senators  basically went in and and someone spoke for a few minutes and then they had the Vote(92-7).

    Did the House have a long Debate?(I went to sleep)
    Connor Lamb brought the wood.  Then there was the altercation. 
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 18,394
    Biden
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,481
    Biden
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,306
    Biden
    brianlux said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 22,686
    Biden
    brianlux said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 

    Without the primary system we never would have seen Slick Willie nor Barack Obama become POTUS.  Letting the rotting sewer systems pick their own candidates would only work better if we had about 20 parties to choose from.

    Not saying the primary system isn't messy (I cannot stand how the media stands up who they think the leaders will be before a single primary is held...and it is way too long...and some states don't even have a say based on the way it is laid out) but I do not think the system you describe is any more desirable.  Trump is a symbol of what is wrong with people more than what is wrong with system.  He would have been laughed off the primary podium without such a huge percentage of this country being total fucking morons.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,624
    Biden
    brianlux said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 
    I'm not understanding why it is weird that people vote in a primary to pick who they want to run for their respective party.  I agree that there is some primary fatigue after a while but I don't see how else to do it.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,306
    Biden
    brianlux said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 

    Without the primary system we never would have seen Slick Willie nor Barack Obama become POTUS.  Letting the rotting sewer systems pick their own candidates would only work better if we had about 20 parties to choose from.

    Not saying the primary system isn't messy (I cannot stand how the media stands up who they think the leaders will be before a single primary is held...and it is way too long...and some states don't even have a say based on the way it is laid out) but I do not think the system you describe is any more desirable.  Trump is a symbol of what is wrong with people more than what is wrong with system.  He would have been laughed off the primary podium without such a huge percentage of this country being total fucking morons.
    how is never having trump as president less desirable? and why would bill or barry never be potus without the primary system?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,023
    edited January 7
    brianlux said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    One thing  I would like to add that you guys get right you vote for your president and senators individually. I have to vote for a member of parliament that is the same party as the prime minister that I want. I despise my conservative MP in my riding and much prefer the liberal MP who was currently elected. If I want a conservative prime minster I have to vote for the PC MP I do not want. 
    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
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    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,306
    Biden
    PJNB said:
    brianlux said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    One thing  I would like to add that you guys get right you vote for your president and senators individually. I have to vote for a member of parliament that is the same party as the prime minister that I want. I despise my conservative MP in my riding and much prefer the liberal MP who was currently elected. If I want a conservative prime minster I have to vote for the PC MP I do not want. 
    yeah, i'd love to be able to vote individually as well. it's dumb our vote is for the entire party. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 22,686
    Biden
    brianlux said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 

    Without the primary system we never would have seen Slick Willie nor Barack Obama become POTUS.  Letting the rotting sewer systems pick their own candidates would only work better if we had about 20 parties to choose from.

    Not saying the primary system isn't messy (I cannot stand how the media stands up who they think the leaders will be before a single primary is held...and it is way too long...and some states don't even have a say based on the way it is laid out) but I do not think the system you describe is any more desirable.  Trump is a symbol of what is wrong with people more than what is wrong with system.  He would have been laughed off the primary podium without such a huge percentage of this country being total fucking morons.
    how is never having trump as president less desirable? and why would bill or barry never be potus without the primary system?

    Neither of those fellows were high on anyone's radar as POTUS favorites as the primaries began. 
    Don't recall who it might have been in 92....Tsongas?  Brown?  Would not have been Clinton.  Most didn't even know who the dude was before Gennifer Flowers came out.
    In 08 it would have been Hillary.  No doubt.  (Unless Bill had never been President and it had been Tsongas. :lol: )

    We cannot change the entire system to block Trump.  You read past my point about it being the idiots much more than the system.  We have hundreds of years in place without Donald Trump.  The country is fucked up and we do some bad shit to anyone who isn't white and we do bad shit to other countries and we don't support anyone well who doesn't have a lot of money....but the problem isn't primaries.  The problem is people.  Largely, white people.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 13,135
    edited January 7
    Biden
    Rank Choice Voting - let as many parties, candidates run as they'd like. Then the individual with the best policy proposals and ideas will win. I stick that this is the opposite of sports where the name on the front of the jersey (political party) matters more than the name on the back (candidate). Less institutional power is needed in politics. RCV gets rid of the need of primaries. Between only one election and taking away the power of parties all of a sudden you have shorter election cycles so that public servants can, ya know, serve the public. Then you reform finances of both campaigns and coporations, so that corporations aren't treated like individuals humans and reduce the power of PACs.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 20,225
    Biden
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 
    I'm not understanding why it is weird that people vote in a primary to pick who they want to run for their respective party.  I agree that there is some primary fatigue after a while but I don't see how else to do it.  
    This is much closer to democracy than how UK or Canada chooses its PM.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 22,686
    Biden
    Rank Choice Voting - let as many parties, candidates run as they'd like. Then the individual with the best policy proposals and ideas will win. I stick that this is the opposite of sports where the name on the front of the jersey (political party) matters more than the name on the back (candidate). Less institutional power is needed in politics. RCV gets rid of the need of primaries. Between only one election and taking away the power of parties all of a sudden you have shorter election cycles so that public servants can, ya know, serve the public. Then you reform finances of both campaigns and coporations, so that corporations aren't treated like individuals humans and reduce the power of PACs.

    This makes sense, not knowing much more about it than you shared.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 20,225
    Biden
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,624
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I m not understanding rank choice voting.  Like who votes? How do you know who’s policy is better? 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,306
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 
    I'm not understanding why it is weird that people vote in a primary to pick who they want to run for their respective party.  I agree that there is some primary fatigue after a while but I don't see how else to do it.  
    This is much closer to democracy than how UK or Canada chooses its PM.
    maybe in principle, but when it essentially comes down to who has more money and which candidates are given time to speak on the stage, they're kind of chosen for you. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 13,135
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I'm not talking about just the Presidential here. You can get there if you start bottom-up. States need to change the way they vote.
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 13,135
    edited January 7
    Biden
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I m not understanding rank choice voting.  Like who votes? How do you know who’s policy is better? 
    What do you mean who votes? You vote. You figure out candidates' stances just like you do in every other election.

    RCV you can vote for as many or as little candidates as you'd like to vote for, and you rank them - #1 most preferred #Z least preferred.
    Post edited by Jearlpam0925 on
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,624
    edited January 7
    Biden
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I m not understanding rank choice voting.  Like who votes? How do you know who’s policy is better? 
    What do you mean who votes? You vote.
    Ok I just read up on it.....No thanks.
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 13,135
    Biden
    And now that I think about it - EC votes could still be doled via RCV.

    Also to explain further - candidates then are tallied by their amount of votes. If any one candidate garners a majority of #1 votes they're automatically the winner. Otherwise, you keep lopping off the least preferred until you get a majority. Better explained here:


  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 13,135
    Biden
    Hey this is good, too:


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 20,225
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I'm not talking about just the Presidential here. You can get there if you start bottom-up. States need to change the way they vote.
    I see.  Yes, it can be used in local elections (Maine?), but I'm cynical on the presidential side
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 13,135
    edited January 7
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I'm not talking about just the Presidential here. You can get there if you start bottom-up. States need to change the way they vote.
    I see.  Yes, it can be used in local elections (Maine?), but I'm cynical on the presidential side
    I mean you're doing the same thing - awarding the EC votes to the winner of a state's election. Yes, Maine used it for the Presidential, too.

    I don't see the downside in rewarding the candidate with the broadest appeal instead of the one that fans flames.
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