White Privilege

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  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,476
    Merkin Baller said:
    What happened yesterday was literal sedition incited by the lame duck POTUS. 

    This isn't complicated, and no, it doesn't compare to anything that happened in 2020 no matter how much you want it to. 

    Wake the f up. 
    You are absolutely correct.

    These were "right wing extremists" encouraged by the so-called president to do what they did.
    It was an insurrection.
    It was sedition.
    And he encouraged it.
    In June he was ready to call in the military to quell the riots.
    Yesterday he encouraged the rioting.
    He did nothing to quell the idiotic behavior.
    There was nothing done by anyone to stop it until it was too late.

    Nothing hypothetical about that.
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    You’re not wrong but neither are those who found the lack of police from the offset as a clear indicator that it was because they were white. So hypothetically speaking would you agree the police presence would have been dramatically increased prior to the start of the proceedings if it were any group but whites?  
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,336
    mace1229 said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    What made it worse isn't the scale of what happened, it was the intent. The BLM protestors were acting out against racist events. The rioters yesterday deliberately disrupted the operation of an in session Congress with the goal of stopping their Constitutional mandated certifying of election results. They took it upon themselves to illegally attempt to force with violence, the abandonment of the sworn duty of the Congressmen and women.   
    Thanks for an actual response instead of just name calling to disagree. But for me intent and side doesn’t matter when you beat and kill innocent people and burn down city blocks. Once you cross that line it doesn’t matter what your cause is to me.

    This thread just reinforces the mentality of “it’s okay to riot, destroy and kill if I agree with you. But if I don’t, you better shut up.”

    it is pathetic how Trump handled this. I never said otherwise.
    Violence and destruction should never be condoned. I do see the mentality you mention being played out. This Summer, a lot of people I work with were saying that the protestors were a threat to the security of the nation and had to be locked up. Yesterday and today, those same people are not just excusing what happened, they are cheering it on. I have pointed out the hypocrisy to a number of them, but it hasn't changed their minds. They are convinced that their cause is righteous, and when people have that mentality, often logic goes right out the window.  
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mace1229 said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    What made it worse isn't the scale of what happened, it was the intent. The BLM protestors were acting out against racist events. The rioters yesterday deliberately disrupted the operation of an in session Congress with the goal of stopping their Constitutional mandated certifying of election results. They took it upon themselves to illegally attempt to force with violence, the abandonment of the sworn duty of the Congressmen and women.   
    Thanks for an actual response instead of just name calling to disagree. But for me intent and side doesn’t matter when you beat and kill innocent people and burn down city blocks. Once you cross that line it doesn’t matter what your cause is to me.

    This thread just reinforces the mentality of “it’s okay to riot, destroy and kill if I agree with you. But if I don’t, you better shut up.”

    it is pathetic how Trump handled this. I never said otherwise.
    Intent and side seem to have mattered in the past when it has been police doing the beating and killing of innocent people. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,537
    https://in.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-protester-capitol-antifa-qa/fact-check-man-with-painted-face-wearing-fur-and-horns-rallied-for-trump-and-qanon-not-antifa-or-blm-idUSKBN29C0BP
    Dude w horns has been identified.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,847
    edited January 2021
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    You’re not wrong but neither are those who found the lack of police from the offset as a clear indicator that it was because they were white. So hypothetically speaking would you agree the police presence would have been dramatically increased prior to the start of the proceedings if it were any group but whites?  
    I wouldn't. This summer we saw mayors, governors and other officials tell police to stand down when bricks and Molotov cocktails were thrown at them. We saw them refuse to press charges on destruction and violence. We saw them give up city block in Seattle to a CHAZ/CHAD concept, we saw them order police precincts be abandoned when they became under attack. There was a point to not allow law enforcement to push back on much of the violence that happened over the course of 3 or 4 months this summer. Why would I think that would suddenly change just because its January now?
    Maybe it would, but I have no reason or evidence to believe so.
    I'm talking about widespread protests and violence, there were still singular incidents that involved individuals, I'm not saying any of that didn't happen. But on a wide spread scale, BLM protestors, or those protesting under the BLM slogan, were pretty much allowed to get away with a lot more than what happened yesterday for months. 
    There were some examples over the summer with larger police presence. But in many cases, it was much less than last night. Police completely evacuated parts of cities and allowed complete destruction and looting. There were imagines of small police units in front of a mall just watching the looting going on because they were told to stand down. Last night 2 people were shot and 1 was killed, for being unarmed and breaking and entering through a window. That never came close to happening this summer. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,818
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    You’re not wrong but neither are those who found the lack of police from the offset as a clear indicator that it was because they were white. So hypothetically speaking would you agree the police presence would have been dramatically increased prior to the start of the proceedings if it were any group but whites?  
    I wouldn't. This summer we saw mayors, governors and other officials tell police to stand down when bricks and Molotov cocktails were thrown at them. We saw them refuse to press charges on destruction and violence. We saw them give up city block in Seattle to a CHAZ/CHAD concept, we saw them order police precincts be abandoned when they became under attack. There was a point to not allow law enforcement to push back on much of the violence that happened over the course of 3 or 4 months this summer. Why would I think that would suddenly change just because its January now?
    Maybe it would, but I have no reason or evidence to believe so.
    I'm talking about widespread protests and violence, there were still singular incidents that involved individuals, I'm not saying any of that didn't happen. But on a wide spread scale, BLM protestors, or those protesting under the BLM slogan, were pretty much allowed to get away with a lot more than what happened yesterday for months. 
    There were some examples over the summer with larger police presence. But in many cases, it was much less than last night. Police completely evacuated parts of cities and allowed complete destruction and looting. There were imagines of small police units in front of a mall just watching the looting going on because they were told to stand down. Last night 2 people were shot and 1 was killed, for being unarmed and breaking and entering through a window. That never came close to happening this summer. 
    You're embarrassing yourself at this point. 
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,437
    I can't even bring myself to respond. It's a different reality. That's why domestic terrorism and treason like yesterday is happening.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Merkin Baller said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    You’re not wrong but neither are those who found the lack of police from the offset as a clear indicator that it was because they were white. So hypothetically speaking would you agree the police presence would have been dramatically increased prior to the start of the proceedings if it were any group but whites?  
    I wouldn't. This summer we saw mayors, governors and other officials tell police to stand down when bricks and Molotov cocktails were thrown at them. We saw them refuse to press charges on destruction and violence. We saw them give up city block in Seattle to a CHAZ/CHAD concept, we saw them order police precincts be abandoned when they became under attack. There was a point to not allow law enforcement to push back on much of the violence that happened over the course of 3 or 4 months this summer. Why would I think that would suddenly change just because its January now?
    Maybe it would, but I have no reason or evidence to believe so.
    I'm talking about widespread protests and violence, there were still singular incidents that involved individuals, I'm not saying any of that didn't happen. But on a wide spread scale, BLM protestors, or those protesting under the BLM slogan, were pretty much allowed to get away with a lot more than what happened yesterday for months. 
    There were some examples over the summer with larger police presence. But in many cases, it was much less than last night. Police completely evacuated parts of cities and allowed complete destruction and looting. There were imagines of small police units in front of a mall just watching the looting going on because they were told to stand down. Last night 2 people were shot and 1 was killed, for being unarmed and breaking and entering through a window. That never came close to happening this summer. 
    You're embarrassing yourself at this point. 
    I agree. The mental gymnastics is breathtaking.
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,818
    tbergs said:
    I can't even bring myself to respond. It's a different reality. That's why domestic terrorism and treason like yesterday is happening.
    Different reality indeed... good grief. 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,847
    edited January 2021
    Merkin Baller said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    You’re not wrong but neither are those who found the lack of police from the offset as a clear indicator that it was because they were white. So hypothetically speaking would you agree the police presence would have been dramatically increased prior to the start of the proceedings if it were any group but whites?  
    I wouldn't. This summer we saw mayors, governors and other officials tell police to stand down when bricks and Molotov cocktails were thrown at them. We saw them refuse to press charges on destruction and violence. We saw them give up city block in Seattle to a CHAZ/CHAD concept, we saw them order police precincts be abandoned when they became under attack. There was a point to not allow law enforcement to push back on much of the violence that happened over the course of 3 or 4 months this summer. Why would I think that would suddenly change just because its January now?
    Maybe it would, but I have no reason or evidence to believe so.
    I'm talking about widespread protests and violence, there were still singular incidents that involved individuals, I'm not saying any of that didn't happen. But on a wide spread scale, BLM protestors, or those protesting under the BLM slogan, were pretty much allowed to get away with a lot more than what happened yesterday for months. 
    There were some examples over the summer with larger police presence. But in many cases, it was much less than last night. Police completely evacuated parts of cities and allowed complete destruction and looting. There were imagines of small police units in front of a mall just watching the looting going on because they were told to stand down. Last night 2 people were shot and 1 was killed, for being unarmed and breaking and entering through a window. That never came close to happening this summer. 
    You're embarrassing yourself at this point. 
    Care to elaborate? Was someone not shot and killed while climbing through a window in the capitol? Did she have a molotov cocktail or a brick to throw at police? Was she attempting to burn down the building? No, they shot her as she climbed through the capitol window. There's video of it. It happened.  Were larges riots not allowed to happen over the summer and take over police precincts and create CHAZ?CHAD? Could you explain what I said was wrong? Because it was all true, it all happened. I'm not sure why sharing facts is embarrassing. It isn't to me. 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,436
    Because he's oppressed. Because he couldn't get served at a food truck because he wasn't wearing a mask. And white. And a nationalist. 17 sex offenders living where he does and its 82% white. Must be scared. Guy occupied Speaker Pelosi's office and took an envelope. But he left twenty five cents so its all good. 'Murica, freedumb and shit hole country.

    Last Saturday, Richard Barnett of Gravette, Ark., criticized Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in a Facebook post for using the description “white nationalist” as a “derogatory term.”

    “I am white. There is no denying that. I am a nationalist. I put my nation first. So that makes me a white nationalist,” Barnett wrote on page he maintained under a pseudonym, before adding that people who were not nationalists should “get the f--- out of our nation.”

    Just four days later, Barnett was photographed sitting with his feet up on a desk in Pelosi’s office at the U.S. Capitol — an image that quickly became emblematic of the chaotic storming of the complex by a pro-Trump mob.

    Barnett, who is 60 and goes by the nickname “Bigo,” identified himself as the intruder in Pelosi’s office to New York Times reporter Matthew Rosenberg later on Wednesday, according to a post on Twitter by Rosenberg.

    Barnett also confirmed his involvement to the Arkansas television station 5News. Barnett, who was photographed outside the Capitol holding an envelope he said he removed from Pelosi’s office, said he had taken the envelope because he had bled on it. “I put a quarter on the desk because I’m not a thief,” he told 5News.

    Calls on Wednesday evening to a cellphone number registered to Barnett were routed to a voice mail account that was not accepting messages.

    Barnett is a Trump supporter and gun rights advocate who has repeatedly shared false claims via social media that the election was stolen, according to a review of two Facebook accounts tied to Barnett. In one post, Barnett falsely asserted that there were “mountains of evidence” of voter fraud.

    One of the Facebook accounts, in Barnett’s name, was locked or removed from the social media site Wednesday evening. Another account, named “George Reincarnated Patton” after the World War II general, was locked or removed Thursday morning. The Post was able to link the latter account to Barnett because the profile picture depicted Barnett and the page contained a selfie of Barnett as well as a post he had signed using his real name. In addition, a post on the “Patton” account last Saturday urged his friends to shift to the account in Barnett’s real name. “Tired of double posting,” it said.

    In a Dec. 28 Facebook post on the Patton page, Barnett announced he would be attending Wednesday’s rally and urged fellow Arkansans to make sacrifices to join him there. “This is OUR COUNTRY!!!,” he wrote. “Can you give one day from the Internet or work or whatever to be active.” He added, “Get the f--- up people. Please STAND!!! If not now, when?”

    In the post, Barnett expressed disappointment that past political events he had attended had attracted only a “small handful” of people. Ten days earlier, he had posted photographs of himself and a few others protesting the election result outside the Capitol building in Little Rock, Ark. Barnett posed for one picture holding a rifle.

    In a separate post the same day, Barnett wrote that he “came into this world kicking and screaming, covered in someone else’s blood,” adding, “I’m not afraid to go out the same way.” The post was accompanied by a selfie of Barnett with a rifle strapped to his chest. He was wearing a polo shirt bearing on one sleeve a pro-police “Blue Lives Matter” flag logo.

    Barnett later shared a link to a speech that Vice President Pence gave on Dec. 22 to a conservative group’s convention in West Palm Beach, Fla., at which Pence pledged “to keep fighting until every illegal vote is thrown out.”

    Barnett has organized fundraising events for the police department in Sulphur Springs, Ark., near Gravette, according to his Facebook accounts and an October article in the Westside Eagle-Observer newspaper. The article said Barnett presented the department with a check to fund the purchase of body cameras for officers after raising money at a “Back The Blue” rally and auction.

    Sulphur Springs police chief Jarod Morgan, who was photographed by the newspaper accepting the check from Barnett, did not respond to messages on Wednesday evening.

    Also in October, Barnett helped to raise more than $1,000 for “Save Our Children,” an anti-child-trafficking campaign, according to another article in the Eagle-Observer. Facebook limited the use of the national campaign’s hashtag because it found that content tied to the campaign was associated with the QAnon conspiracy theory, which entails false allegations about child abuse among the global elite.

    Online in recent weeks, Barnett has shared numerous conspiracy theories about the coronavirus pandemic and the vaccines being used to combat it. He has railed against mask requirements, complaining in one post that he was denied service by a food truck.

    Amid the gripes about the pandemic and the election, Barnett posted to his Facebook page a video of people arriving for Wednesday’s rally.

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,599
    mace1229 said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    You’re not wrong but neither are those who found the lack of police from the offset as a clear indicator that it was because they were white. So hypothetically speaking would you agree the police presence would have been dramatically increased prior to the start of the proceedings if it were any group but whites?  
    I wouldn't. This summer we saw mayors, governors and other officials tell police to stand down when bricks and Molotov cocktails were thrown at them. We saw them refuse to press charges on destruction and violence. We saw them give up city block in Seattle to a CHAZ/CHAD concept, we saw them order police precincts be abandoned when they became under attack. There was a point to not allow law enforcement to push back on much of the violence that happened over the course of 3 or 4 months this summer. Why would I think that would suddenly change just because its January now?
    Maybe it would, but I have no reason or evidence to believe so.
    I'm talking about widespread protests and violence, there were still singular incidents that involved individuals, I'm not saying any of that didn't happen. But on a wide spread scale, BLM protestors, or those protesting under the BLM slogan, were pretty much allowed to get away with a lot more than what happened yesterday for months. 
    There were some examples over the summer with larger police presence. But in many cases, it was much less than last night. Police completely evacuated parts of cities and allowed complete destruction and looting. There were imagines of small police units in front of a mall just watching the looting going on because they were told to stand down. Last night 2 people were shot and 1 was killed, for being unarmed and breaking and entering through a window. That never came close to happening this summer. 
    You're embarrassing yourself at this point. 
    Care to elaborate? Was someone not shot and killed while climbing through a window in the capitol? Did she have a molotov cocktail or a brick to throw at police? Was she attempting to burn down the building? No, they shot her as she climbed through the capitol window. There's video of it. It happened.  Were larges riots not allowed to happen over the summer and take over police precincts and create CHAZ?CHAD? Could you explain what I said was wrong? Because it was all true, it all happened. I'm not sure why sharing facts is embarrassing. It isn't to me. 



    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,853
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I really wish we could focus.  Certainly there should be a time to discuss the security plan and reasons.  Then compare to other security plans.

    Can we focus on the treasonous traitors including the president of the united states of america right now though?  Gotta be more important today no?  
    I think yesterday's events definitely apply to this thread. 
    Not saying that. It’s a part of it. But treason was a bigger part.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,818
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I really wish we could focus.  Certainly there should be a time to discuss the security plan and reasons.  Then compare to other security plans.

    Can we focus on the treasonous traitors including the president of the united states of america right now though?  Gotta be more important today no?  
    I think yesterday's events definitely apply to this thread. 
    Not saying that. It’s a part of it. But treason was a bigger part.
    I don't disagree. 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,436
    mace1229 said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    cblock4life said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    mace1229 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    No reason to argue it - anyone who wants to discuss what went down today by comparing to this summers protests about the systemic racism in America is not interested in a real discussion.  

    Making that comparison is white privilege at work.
    I’m responding to the “if they were black....” comments. Has nothing to do with the reason for the protests/riots. Being about racism or politics, you can’t sit here and say if these people were black they would have been killed in mass numbers. That just didn’t happen. Pretending it did and would is being not interested in a real discussion.
    If these people were black they never would have made it into the capital.
    If they tried to get past police and storm the chambers there sure as hell would have been a lot of shooting.  
    We’re arguing a hypothetical, so we just have to disagree. I think the looting and riots that happened over the summer were shameful and I think storming the Capitol is shameful. I’m not happy or supporting or excusing any of it. I just don’t see color having anything to do with it. They were allowed to throw bricks at police without any consequence in the summer, I don’t see any reason to believe there’d be mass violence if this crowd was not white today. I don’t see how this is white privilege. And when you think about it, 1 riot in 1 city that lasted a few hours and the police shot 2 and killed 1. I can’t recall the police shooting anyone as a result of riots that lasted for months over the summer, that took place in dozens of cities who literally beat police and bystanders and burned down buildings and took over a police precinct. I can’t think of 1 person shot in all that (by police, as a direct result of a riot). If the summer protests had the same shooting rate as today there’d literally be hundreds dead from police. But like I said, it’s a hypothetical, you have your belief and I have mine. And that’s okay.
    No, police do all their black shootings with their cameras off and while no ones looking. And that’s not ok. And this is about anyone’s beliefs, this is about the truth. 
    It was about a hypothetical question. My comments weren’t about the system or anything else, just my opinion on a hypothetical question.
    That being said, I don’t know how anyone can believe yesterday’s riot was worse than the months of BLM riots. BLM riots lasted for months across the nation, many innocent bystanders were beaten and hospitalized. Some killed. Cops were targeted and beaten and shot. Hundreds of buildings destroyed. And it was allowed to happen. In many cases local officials gave permission for it to happen by openly stating they were not going to prosecute and allow room to demonstrate. Seems like I’m about the only one here who thinks the months of violence was worse than the few hours yesterday. By every measure it was worse. Yesterday was already over before I had a chance to come home and comment. We had multiple active threads on BLM riots.
    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible thing or that there doesn’t need to be changed in police practices. It just means riots that last for months across the entire country where hundreds are beaten and include several deaths and hundreds of buildings burned down is worse then one single riot that lasts a few hours and they break a few windows and enter a building and yell at people and the only serious injury and death that I’m aware of are those who participated in the riot. Show me where hundreds of buildings were completely destroyed and show me where hundreds of innocent bystanders were beaten or killed and I’ll admit I’m wrong.
    You’re not wrong but neither are those who found the lack of police from the offset as a clear indicator that it was because they were white. So hypothetically speaking would you agree the police presence would have been dramatically increased prior to the start of the proceedings if it were any group but whites?  
    I wouldn't. This summer we saw mayors, governors and other officials tell police to stand down when bricks and Molotov cocktails were thrown at them. We saw them refuse to press charges on destruction and violence. We saw them give up city block in Seattle to a CHAZ/CHAD concept, we saw them order police precincts be abandoned when they became under attack. There was a point to not allow law enforcement to push back on much of the violence that happened over the course of 3 or 4 months this summer. Why would I think that would suddenly change just because its January now?
    Maybe it would, but I have no reason or evidence to believe so.
    I'm talking about widespread protests and violence, there were still singular incidents that involved individuals, I'm not saying any of that didn't happen. But on a wide spread scale, BLM protestors, or those protesting under the BLM slogan, were pretty much allowed to get away with a lot more than what happened yesterday for months. 
    There were some examples over the summer with larger police presence. But in many cases, it was much less than last night. Police completely evacuated parts of cities and allowed complete destruction and looting. There were imagines of small police units in front of a mall just watching the looting going on because they were told to stand down. Last night 2 people were shot and 1 was killed, for being unarmed and breaking and entering through a window. That never came close to happening this summer. 
    You're embarrassing yourself at this point. 
    Care to elaborate? Was someone not shot and killed while climbing through a window in the capitol? Did she have a molotov cocktail or a brick to throw at police? Was she attempting to burn down the building? No, they shot her as she climbed through the capitol window. There's video of it. It happened.  Were larges riots not allowed to happen over the summer and take over police precincts and create CHAZ?CHAD? Could you explain what I said was wrong? Because it was all true, it all happened. I'm not sure why sharing facts is embarrassing. It isn't to me. 
    There's video of George Floyd having the life squeezed out of him as he begs for his mother. There's video of the guy in Kenosha shot 7 times in the back as he walked away. There's video of Michael Brown being killed. And etc., etc. etc. If memory serves, you defended the police in every instance. What's different this time?
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  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,113

    Scio me nihil scire

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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,847
    I agree yesterday was disgusting and disgraceful. I agree Trump was in part to blame for not stepping up to the plate and also his actions since the elections. I agree those involved should be arrested and face charges. Really the only single thing that has been said here that I disagree with was that it would have been a blood bath if they weren't white. 
    I also agree that there have been cases of police brutality. But none of my comments were about that. I made that clear, I was not comparing last night to what happened to Floyd. I never did compare those 2 or deny what happen to Floyd was wrong.  
    The only thing I disagreed with was the outcome if they were black.
    This summer several police precincts were burned down or taken over with orders to retreat and not confront the attackers. Molotov cocktails and bricks were routinely thrown at police. City blocks were taken over. Random bystanders and store owners were beaten with sticks, rocks, fists or run over by cars and police were told to stand down. Looting happened in daylight with stores being raided and emptied and police were told to stand down. Hundreds of privately owned buildings were burned to the ground and police were told to stand down. Many elected officials made public they would drop charges for anyone arrested while others publicly stood behind the riots. CNN stood in front of a city block on fire with overturned police vehicles and told us it was peaceful. 
    I'm sure 14,000 were arrested over the summer. But you can't compared 3 months of rioting in nearly every state across the nation and compare that the a single incident that occurred in a single building and ask why only 50 were arrested last night. If they arrested 50 people every incident over the summer the total would be a lot higher than 14,000.
    So I have no reason to believe race played a role in that only 1 person was killed last night. The majority of responses are just meaningless snips of "you're delusional" and the like. Only 1 real answer, and that was this was a federal building. I accept that as a real argument, but still disagree. If crowds are allowed to burn police precincts and take them over for weeks, I don't see a big difference here.
    What I do see is a reluctance to still call out the violence of this summer. Which I believe played a major role in yesterday. It was bound to escalate and retaliate. The only difference is who these people voted for and now the rest are finally angry about it. But this has been going on for months, it was just ignored.
    I have no problem calling out those who acted yesterday, they were a stain on our society. So were those who burned down city blocks and use the death of someone they didn't know to steal themselves a new TV and beat innocent people into a coma, or worse.
    I think I've said my peace here on this topic.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,436
    mace1229 said:
    I agree yesterday was disgusting and disgraceful. I agree Trump was in part to blame for not stepping up to the plate and also his actions since the elections. I agree those involved should be arrested and face charges. Really the only single thing that has been said here that I disagree with was that it would have been a blood bath if they weren't white. 
    I also agree that there have been cases of police brutality. But none of my comments were about that. I made that clear, I was not comparing last night to what happened to Floyd. I never did compare those 2 or deny what happen to Floyd was wrong.  
    The only thing I disagreed with was the outcome if they were black.
    This summer several police precincts were burned down or taken over with orders to retreat and not confront the attackers. Molotov cocktails and bricks were routinely thrown at police. City blocks were taken over. Random bystanders and store owners were beaten with sticks, rocks, fists or run over by cars and police were told to stand down. Looting happened in daylight with stores being raided and emptied and police were told to stand down. Hundreds of privately owned buildings were burned to the ground and police were told to stand down. Many elected officials made public they would drop charges for anyone arrested while others publicly stood behind the riots. CNN stood in front of a city block on fire with overturned police vehicles and told us it was peaceful. 
    I'm sure 14,000 were arrested over the summer. But you can't compared 3 months of rioting in nearly every state across the nation and compare that the a single incident that occurred in a single building and ask why only 50 were arrested last night. If they arrested 50 people every incident over the summer the total would be a lot higher than 14,000.
    So I have no reason to believe race played a role in that only 1 person was killed last night. The majority of responses are just meaningless snips of "you're delusional" and the like. Only 1 real answer, and that was this was a federal building. I accept that as a real argument, but still disagree. If crowds are allowed to burn police precincts and take them over for weeks, I don't see a big difference here.
    What I do see is a reluctance to still call out the violence of this summer. Which I believe played a major role in yesterday. It was bound to escalate and retaliate. The only difference is who these people voted for and now the rest are finally angry about it. But this has been going on for months, it was just ignored.
    I have no problem calling out those who acted yesterday, they were a stain on our society. So were those who burned down city blocks and use the death of someone they didn't know to steal themselves a new TV and beat innocent people into a coma, or worse.
    I think I've said my peace here on this topic.
    Maybe you could explain what the rioters of yesterday were grieving? What or how were they wronged? What system or part of the system failed them? What consequences have there been for those who murdered in the name of the State? What consequences have there been for those who have practiced extrajudicial killings? Where or how did justice roll out? And yesterday? What wrong needed to be righted? What civil course of action was available to those wronged? And?

    You still think the outcome would have been the same if black/brown insurrectionists were there yesterday? Really, no difference? Wow, just wow.

    Its approaching 30 years since Rodney King was beaten while tazed and lying on the ground. Nothing has changed.
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,599
    mace1229 said:
    I agree yesterday was disgusting and disgraceful. I agree Trump was in part to blame for not stepping up to the plate and also his actions since the elections. I agree those involved should be arrested and face charges. Really the only single thing that has been said here that I disagree with was that it would have been a blood bath if they weren't white. 
    I also agree that there have been cases of police brutality. But none of my comments were about that. I made that clear, I was not comparing last night to what happened to Floyd. I never did compare those 2 or deny what happen to Floyd was wrong.  
    The only thing I disagreed with was the outcome if they were black.
    This summer several police precincts were burned down or taken over with orders to retreat and not confront the attackers. Molotov cocktails and bricks were routinely thrown at police. City blocks were taken over. Random bystanders and store owners were beaten with sticks, rocks, fists or run over by cars and police were told to stand down. Looting happened in daylight with stores being raided and emptied and police were told to stand down. Hundreds of privately owned buildings were burned to the ground and police were told to stand down. Many elected officials made public they would drop charges for anyone arrested while others publicly stood behind the riots. CNN stood in front of a city block on fire with overturned police vehicles and told us it was peaceful. 
    I'm sure 14,000 were arrested over the summer. But you can't compared 3 months of rioting in nearly every state across the nation and compare that the a single incident that occurred in a single building and ask why only 50 were arrested last night. If they arrested 50 people every incident over the summer the total would be a lot higher than 14,000.
    So I have no reason to believe race played a role in that only 1 person was killed last night. The majority of responses are just meaningless snips of "you're delusional" and the like. Only 1 real answer, and that was this was a federal building. I accept that as a real argument, but still disagree. If crowds are allowed to burn police precincts and take them over for weeks, I don't see a big difference here.
    What I do see is a reluctance to still call out the violence of this summer. Which I believe played a major role in yesterday. It was bound to escalate and retaliate. The only difference is who these people voted for and now the rest are finally angry about it. But this has been going on for months, it was just ignored.
    I have no problem calling out those who acted yesterday, they were a stain on our society. So were those who burned down city blocks and use the death of someone they didn't know to steal themselves a new TV and beat innocent people into a coma, or worse.
    I think I've said my peace here on this topic.
    sorry dude. terrible take. 

    the insurrection had nothing to do with the summer riots. the violence yesterday was incited by the president and his cronies. he told them to come there. he told them to be strong. he told them not to give up. he knew what he was doing. it was a call to arms. you'd have to be borderline brain dead to not have been able to predict that happening after his rally. 

    without trump's rally, there would have been no one there. or at least not enough to overcome the DC police. 

    no one ignored the violence in the summer. many of us routinely denounced violence that wasn't an act of self defence. 

    it is a statistical fact that a black man dealing with law enforcement is SIX TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE THAN A WHITE MAN. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




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