tbergs said:

Parksy said:

I get the idea of holding onto some version of hope here for your America.  The divide is quite clear, but one thing that Dems and Reps seem to always say and 'agree' on is that America is the greatest country in the world.  It's not.  You're not.  You weren't before Trump, and holy hell you really aren't today.  It might be a good start if you all stop saying that. I know some on here do.. and kudos to you. That Van Jones fellow on CNN said something last night that was interesting... 'sometimes you need a total breakdown to have a breakthrough.'  That's a good point. 

Amongst the many, many many, many problems that yesterday shined a glaring light on... I couldn't help personally thinking about the media.  CNN in particular but I imagine other outlets etc.  There is enough evidence to be able to call these people "Rebels" "Insurrectionists" "Terrorists" Ok.  I get it.    But when you look at the people who 'stormed the Capitol'   (about as easy as I 'stormed' the floor to get front row in Buffalo '13 ah thank you) ... Do educated people honestly think these folks had some sort of organized agenda?   This opinion of mine could rightly be contested but I mean come on... I'm watching a group of goofballs smash into your capitol building and if I remember correctly at least 90% of the people doing it had their phones in their hands and was filming it.  That viking looking asshole? Look if this was a rebellion, terrorist act, insurrection... they would have burned that building to the ground. And I doubt they would be posing for photos doing it.  Like, I could be wrong.. but to me it seemed like a group of jolly ole' morons at a circus show acting like grade school idiots who belong in the special class...  not terrorists.  But it makes better headlines I guess to call them that.  (shrugs) 

The level of intelligence or competence does not make it any less severe of an attempt to disrupt and destroy the democratic process. Personally, I feel that every one of those people that broke through in to the capitol yesterday are treasonous traitors and domestic terrorists. What is even more dangerous is when there isn't a plan or any organization among a group of conspiracy following fringe cult members who have devolved to mob mentality. It reminds me of the 80's movie Escape from New York. A bunch of morons lacking clear cognitive ability attempting a power grab. These same morons are allowed to own guns and stand their ground in their own homes, but thought trying to enter barricaded spaces of a federal building was somehow within their right and then for the most part, they got the same treatment a tourist of the building would get and were later allowed to just walk out of their own accord after rummaging chambers and offices of politicians.

Information is still sparse on the police and security issues, but I believe why you didn't see a prepared blockade with riot gear officers from the beginning is because they knew it was a group of white Trump supporters and thought they could go easy. It has been known for weeks that Trump was rallying these goons based on lies and conspiracy theories. After what happened in Michigan this past summer, there is no way they should have been this woefully prepared and I don't think they would have been if it was another BLM protest. This puts on full display for the whole world what bias looks like, whether intentional or unconscious. There is a different standard and it was applied to woeful results yesterday.

I blame the leaders in charge for their horrible preparation to handle the crowd, but mostly this all goes back to Trump. He fed these fucks the shit they want so badly to believe and continues to treat them like they are the oppressed and wronged citizens of this country. 

ikiT said:

They been fucking duped.  

100%

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

my wife's brother lives in green bay. since 2016 he has told everyone that he refuses to discuss trump. he fucking hates him. i texted him last night and asked if any of his trump buddies were still supporters. he insists "most of them are good people with good values who just want low taxes and limited government". 

can't say i agree with that. wonder if yesterday was a tipping point for them. 

Not likely....the mantra for his supporters seems to be that ANTIFA infiltrated the MAGA supporters and caused the trouble.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

my wife's brother lives in green bay. since 2016 he has told everyone that he refuses to discuss trump. he fucking hates him. i texted him last night and asked if any of his trump buddies were still supporters. he insists "most of them are good people with good values who just want low taxes and limited government". 

can't say i agree with that. wonder if yesterday was a tipping point for them. 

Not likely....the mantra for his supporters seems to be that ANTIFA infiltrated the MAGA supporters and caused the trouble.

yeah, read a bunch of people on twitter who honestly believe that. unreal. 

F Me In The Brain said:

Gern Blansten said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/PhilipinDC/status/1347028917685800961

Right there is where the first person should have been shot - if they were black or brown they would have been.

Happens every day.

Or at least a gun blast over their heads.  Of course maybe those cops weren't carrying weapons?  That might be the case.

I saw one of them had a firearm at his side but am unsure. 

Crazy days.

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/RoyaTheWriter/status/1347181249983614979

Where "6MWE" = 6 million weren't enough

Merkin Baller said:

Parksy said:

MayDay10 said:

Parksy said:

I get the idea of holding onto some version of hope here for your America.  The divide is quite clear, but one thing that Dems and Reps seem to always say and 'agree' on is that America is the greatest country in the world.  It's not.  You're not.  You weren't before Trump, and holy hell you really aren't today.  It might be a good start if you all stop saying that. I know some on here do.. and kudos to you. That Van Jones fellow on CNN said something last night that was interesting... 'sometimes you need a total breakdown to have a breakthrough.'  That's a good point. 

Amongst the many, many many, many problems that yesterday shined a glaring light on... I couldn't help personally thinking about the media.  CNN in particular but I imagine other outlets etc.  There is enough evidence to be able to call these people "Rebels" "Insurrectionists" "Terrorists" Ok.  I get it.    But when you look at the people who 'stormed the Capitol'   (about as easy as I 'stormed' the floor to get front row in Buffalo '13 ah thank you) ... Do educated people honestly think these folks had some sort of organized agenda?   This opinion of mine could rightly be contested but I mean come on... I'm watching a group of goofballs smash into your capitol building and if I remember correctly at least 90% of the people doing it had their phones in their hands and was filming it.  That viking looking asshole? Look if this was a rebellion, terrorist act, insurrection... they would have burned that building to the ground. And I doubt they would be posing for photos doing it.  Like, I could be wrong.. but to me it seemed like a group of jolly ole' morons at a circus show acting like grade school idiots who belong in the special class...  not terrorists.  But it makes better headlines I guess to call them that.  (shrugs) 

it was an insurrection by the Trumps and Giuliani.  These people are just a tool for that.


And I agree we arent the greatest nation.  I think we are a great empire and have added a lot to the world both good and bad.  But when you are doing anything, the minute you start resting on the 'fact' that you are the best, you are falling behind.  In anything, you need to realize you have faults and strive for perfection.  We have had a loud contingent who just yells out how we are the best and Trump has capitalized on that and steered it toward full-on Nationalism.  

We have a ton we can work on.  

That's a great point... once you believe whole heartedly that you're the best... it limits the ceiling. 

I still have a hard time believing this was an insurrection.  I think Trump played and continues to play a bunch of fools for the fools they are. I guess alternatively, you could consider it to be the utter most moronic insurrection of all time... orchestrated by greedy cowards and carried out by half-wits. 

Yesterday was the definition of insurrection and saying Trump played the fools for the fools they are is a polite way of getting around the fact that he incited what happened. 

"in·sur·rec·tion

/ˌinsəˈrekSH(ə)n/

1. a violent uprising against an authority or government."

"18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

They were literally rebelling against the laws surrounding the US elections. That they were misinformed and / or delusional fools has no bearing on what transpired. 

Spiritual_Chaos said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/PhilipinDC/status/1347028917685800961

Right there is where the first person should have been shot - if they were black or brown they would have been.

Happens every day.

Not saying they wouldn't have wanted to, but doubt it if the numbers outnumbered them with both sides having guns. 

But not even a warning shot in the air? Maybe that doesn't work in gun-normalized US? 

In Sweden there is always the good ol' warning shot in the air. Isn't that protocol. 

PJNB said:

JeBurkhardt said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

my wife's brother lives in green bay. since 2016 he has told everyone that he refuses to discuss trump. he fucking hates him. i texted him last night and asked if any of his trump buddies were still supporters. he insists "most of them are good people with good values who just want low taxes and limited government". 

can't say i agree with that. wonder if yesterday was a tipping point for them. 

Not likely....the mantra for his supporters seems to be that ANTIFA infiltrated the MAGA supporters and caused the trouble.

The question that they need to answer is which is it? Because I have heard both positions argued. Some are calling them patriots who were following the example of the founding fathers in standing up to oppression. Others have made the claim that they were ANTIFA, not Trump supporters who breached the building. They can't have it both ways. 

This is exactly right and places like Fox are to blame with their mixed bag of messages trying to get something to stick. You have Palin on Fox last night crying that this was really Antifa and then you have this guy this morning calling them misunderstood born again patriots and not conspiracy nuts that performed treason. 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1347159455956393984