Can America recover from Donald Trump?

Ledbetterman10 · November 2020

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

To answer the OP, obviously not. A projected 75 million are still parroting Trumps lies of election fraud. They are here to stay, and I am not sure how I can live amongst an army or liars.

There aren't 75 million that believes that shit. I played golf with one on Saturday. He was like.. meh...Trump lost. He thinks the fraud stuff is a joke.

Yeah a guy I work with that loves Trump and even has a Trump sticker on his car totally has accepted this. He even knew it after Tuesday when Trump was still leading some swing-states. "Not looking good for the Donald," he said on Wednesday morning.

A person that lives down the street from me had not only two Trump flags in their front yard for three months leading up to the election, but also a cardboard cutout of Trump doing his traditional two thumbs up pose. The cutout and flag have been gone since Thursday.

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

OnWis97 · November 2020

Yeah, who knows what the exact number is, but no, not all 75 million Trump voters are buying into this. The true devotees are the loudest and they will believe anything Trump says today, tomorrow, and forever. But most Trump voters, like most Biden votes just vote for their candidate for whatever reason and move on with their lives. I tend to think about a tenth of the population (but, you know, I totally made that up) questions the results and/or is convinced Biden won because of fraud. That's actually pretty frightening and it's enough to provide the appearance of public support should Barr and the courts hijack it.

MayDay10 · November 2020

There is a very noisy bloc of Trump voters who insist this was stolen.

It must have been incredibly frustrating to see the huge bump on Tuesday night, then the slow bleed out throughout the week. I know it was frustrating for me to see the reverse on election night with Florida, Ohio, and NC with kind of the opposite.... but at least it happened over a few hours.

Overall though. We can and will recover. We still are in a bumpy time. Trump is going to take this to the house right now and people are going to be fired up. I wouldnt rule out an act or 2 of horrible domestic terror.

Once he stops spending our tax money and isnt receiving Republican donations, Trump is going to become very much not relevant. Graham, Cruz, etc arent supporting him. They are preparing to take over his base. The Republicans cant wait to boot the Trumps, and they arent going to take kindly if he starts to siphon off donation money to hold his silly rallies. The Trumps are also going to face a lot of legal issues.

Now we will see what happens with the republican party. IMO, no matter who it is, it will recede quite a bit from Donald Trump's version, and we will drift closer to the Divisions we had under Obama. Those were still brutal, but at least reparable and not past the point of no return. People in this country, due to the baby boomers dying out, and less participation in church, is becoming more and more progressive overall.

Merkin Baller · November 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

Ledbetterman10 · November 2020

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

tbergs · November 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

Impossible. You'd need to be blind, deaf and dumb not to know at this point. People like that would need to be willfully ignorant and Trump supporters, while ignorant on a lot of things, actually voted for him because of how he acts and speaks.

mrussel1 · November 2020

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

Yes, that is fair in my mind.

Ledbetterman10 · November 2020

tbergs said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

Impossible. You'd need to be blind, deaf and dumb not to know at this point. People like that would need to be willfully ignorant and Trump supporters, while ignorant on a lot of things, actually voted for him because of how he acts and speaks.

I think it's possible. But I also agree that many did vote for him because they like what he does. But of the 71 million that voted for him, it's hard to generalize who voted for what reasons. Some love him for being him, some are just loyal to the GOP, some hate the left, some just recognize his name, some feel their lives are just fine so why bother changing the president, and some may just vote for him as "fuck you" to whoever they feel a "fuck you" should be directed towards.

MayDay10 · November 2020

there are people who will vote for the most "pro-life" candidate no matter what else there is (as this proves)

There are also people so ingrained with voting Republican. They will vote it no matter what. Mostly older generation republicans. Yes, there is a bit of racism with this group as they are strongly anti-welfare and picture welfare going to blacks who are laughing at them.

My in laws saw the light for a few months. Were horrified how Trump handled the pandemic and were even seeing through the lies and bluster. Recently, they were back into the fold because "they" were going to change the Lincoln and Jefferson memorials... and our 401Ks were going to crater if Biden were elected. Very easy to bring these people back home, even after they see the light. They will never pull anything other than a Red lever.

By themselves, these people were losing any grip on National elections. Trump invigorated the awful sect. Non college whites and rural racists who for some reason think they are just like the Trump family. So with those people highly motivated, it gives Republicans a chance for the Presidency (as we have seen).

Its not so simple as 70 million racists..... however, I do question the thought process of not seeing completely through Donald Trump's facade, even for the staunch R's and Anti-Abortion holy rollers.

mrussel1 · November 2020

MayDay10 said:

there are people who will vote for the most "pro-life" candidate no matter what else there is (as this proves)

There are also people so ingrained with voting Republican. They will vote it no matter what. Mostly older generation republicans. Yes, there is a bit of racism with this group as they are strongly anti-welfare and picture welfare going to blacks who are laughing at them.

My in laws saw the light for a few months. Were horrified how Trump handled the pandemic and were even seeing through the lies and bluster. Recently, they were back into the fold because "they" were going to change the Lincoln and Jefferson memorials... and our 401Ks were going to crater if Biden were elected. Very easy to bring these people back home, even after they see the light. They will never pull anything other than a Red lever.

By themselves, these people were losing any grip on National elections. Trump invigorated the awful sect. Non college whites and rural racists who for some reason think they are just like the Trump family. So with those people highly motivated, it gives Republicans a chance for the Presidency (as we have seen).

Its not so simple as 70 million racists..... however, I do question the thought process of not seeing completely through Donald Trump's facade, even for the staunch R's and Anti-Abortion holy rollers.

People become con men, because other people are willing/ able to be conned. Human nature.

Merkin Baller · November 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

One doesn't need to have followed the news all that closely over the last 4 years to see some of the things I mentioned.

I'm not saying that 70+M people are racist for voting for him, but I do believe the overwhelming majority of those who did know and don't care.

brianlux · November 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

75 million? Are there really 4 million uncounted Trump Votes still? And if so, how many uncounted Biden votes? I could be wrong, but those numbers seem high. Five percent still uncounted?

mrussel1 · November 2020

brianlux said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

75 million? Are there really 4 million uncounted Trump Votes still? And if so, how many uncounted Biden votes? I could be wrong, but those numbers seem high. Five percent still uncounted?

Just rounding. but I did hear there could be close to 15 million uncounted votes. One would think they will be 70% Biden

brianlux · November 2020

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

75 million? Are there really 4 million uncounted Trump Votes still? And if so, how many uncounted Biden votes? I could be wrong, but those numbers seem high. Five percent still uncounted?

Just rounding. but I did hear there could be close to 15 million uncounted votes. One would think they will be 70% Biden

15 million?! Wow! Yeah, probably more than half for Biden. Hopefully no effect on the Electoral College count.

MayDay10 · November 2020

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

75 million? Are there really 4 million uncounted Trump Votes still? And if so, how many uncounted Biden votes? I could be wrong, but those numbers seem high. Five percent still uncounted?

Just rounding. but I did hear there could be close to 15 million uncounted votes. One would think they will be 70% Biden

15 million?! Wow! Yeah, probably more than half for Biden. Hopefully no effect on the Electoral College count.

There wont be an affect on the Electoral count. That part is over. The networks were even extra-careful due to the delicate situation and the optics of calling it at a time that would be perceived as 'early' during the slow mail-in vote counts.

The only way this is going to Trump is with faithless electors (which I highly doubt), or an unprecedented series of unlikely victories in the courts where there seems to be no evidence (which I doubt even more).

I would be a lot more worried if the election was closer and there was 1 state that Trump could try to put on an all out assault and try to get the vote overturned (which would still be unlikely).

mrussel1 · November 2020

MayDay10 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

75 million? Are there really 4 million uncounted Trump Votes still? And if so, how many uncounted Biden votes? I could be wrong, but those numbers seem high. Five percent still uncounted?

Just rounding. but I did hear there could be close to 15 million uncounted votes. One would think they will be 70% Biden

15 million?! Wow! Yeah, probably more than half for Biden. Hopefully no effect on the Electoral College count.

There wont be an affect on the Electoral count. That part is over. The networks were even extra-careful due to the delicate situation and the optics of calling it at a time that would be perceived as 'early' during the slow mail-in vote counts.

The only way this is going to Trump is with faithless electors (which I highly doubt), or an unprecedented series of unlikely victories in the courts where there seems to be no evidence (which I doubt even more).

I would be a lot more worried if the election was closer and there was 1 state that Trump could try to put on an all out assault and try to get the vote overturned (which would still be unlikely).

I just looked at the gap is now 4 million, so it's inching up. At the beginning of last week my prediction was 160 MM votes and Biden winning by 10 MM. We're at 146MM now, so I think my prediction will be a little short on both sides, but 8 million is in play.

Merkin Baller · November 2020

MayDay10 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

But that's typical talk above. 75 million are parroting his lies. 75 million are racists. 75 million are [insert generalization about someone that votes for Trump here]

Is it unfair to say that 75M Americans didn't let Trump's demonstrable racism, corruption, criminality, ineptitude, cruelty or xenophobia stop them from voting for him?

I dunno. How many of those 75 million even follow this stuff closely? If all you watch is the local evening news, and all you read is your local newspaper (which I’d wager a guess is the majority of voters), then he probably doesn’t come off as bad as he is.

75 million? Are there really 4 million uncounted Trump Votes still? And if so, how many uncounted Biden votes? I could be wrong, but those numbers seem high. Five percent still uncounted?

Just rounding. but I did hear there could be close to 15 million uncounted votes. One would think they will be 70% Biden

15 million?! Wow! Yeah, probably more than half for Biden. Hopefully no effect on the Electoral College count.

There wont be an affect on the Electoral count. That part is over. The networks were even extra-careful due to the delicate situation and the optics of calling it at a time that would be perceived as 'early' during the slow mail-in vote counts.

The only way this is going to Trump is with faithless electors (which I highly doubt), or an unprecedented series of unlikely victories in the courts where there seems to be no evidence (which I doubt even more).

I would be a lot more worried if the election was closer and there was 1 state that Trump could try to put on an all out assault and try to get the vote overturned (which would still be unlikely).

Same.

mattsl1983 · November 2020

The only way we will “recover” is if the news media stops pushing a narrative and starts doing responsible journalism again. They have their guy now, let’s see how things are covered. It’s always easy to pick a small group out of a larger group and push them as if they are the majority of the groups. Left wing media and right wing media have done this for the last 4 years making it seem like we are on a verge of a civil war. Most leftists aren’t radical antifas or socialists, most right wingers aren’t crazy white power nationalist. But if you flip between a few networks or social media posts, those are the narratives that are pushed.

Social media users definitely need to start wising up to the information they are consuming. A class taught at UT by a former Intelligence official (my fiancée is getting her masters in foreign policy) explained how Russia has had a field day by pushing both narratives on social media.

We need honest journalism and smarter social media users before we will “recover”.

josevolution · November 2020

Damn it’s been a week since polling was closed and as of now I’m done toast burnt out! I can’t believe we have 73 days left of this deranged human in charge of this country..

brianlux · November 2020

josevolution said:

Damn it’s been a week since polling was closed and as of now I’m done toast burnt out! I can’t believe we have 73 days left of this deranged human in charge of this country..

I hear you, Jose! He can cause a lot off trouble in that time and, in fact, is in the process of doing so. This is from Heather Cox Richardson:

"Today, Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper (by announcing the firing on Twitter), and replaced him with a loyalist, Christopher C. Miller, who will be “acting” only. Trump also selected a loyalist and Republican political operative, Michael Ellis, to become the general counsel at the National Security Agency, our top spy agency, over the wishes of intelligence officials. Ellis was the chief counsel to Representative Devin Nunes (R-CA), a staunch Trump loyalist. Trump is also reportedly considering firing FBI director Christopher Wray and CIA director Gina Haspel. Last week, he quietly fired the leaders of the agencies that oversee our nuclear weapons, international aid, and electricity and natural gas regulation, although the last of those officials was moved to a different spot in the administration.

In other words, Trump is cleaning out the few national security leaders who were not complete lackeys and replacing them with people who are. It’s funny timing for such a shake-up, especially one that will destabilize the country, making us more vulnerable.

Today Washington Post diplomacy and national security reporter John Hudson noted that a source told him that the “Trump administration just gave Congress formal notification for a massive arms transfer to the United Arab Emirates: 50 F-35s, 18 MQ-9 Reapers with munitions; a $10 billion munitions package including thousands of Mk 82 dumb bombs, guided bombs, missiles & more….” This deal comes two months after the administration’s Abraham Accord normalizing relations between Israel and the UAE opened the way for arms sales.

The UAE has wanted the F-35 for years; it is the world’s most advanced fighter jet. They cost about $100 million apiece. The president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, has secretly been pushing for the sale of the arms to the UAE in the face of fierce opposition by government agencies and lawmakers."

Can America recover from Donald Trump?

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