Donald Trump

OnWis97 · October 2020

dankind said:

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

barr will be remembered as a total disgrace to the profession.

If everything goes as planned, he’ll be remembered as one of the three most important architects of US dictatorship (alongside Mitch and Trump).

still with this shit? jesus.

he's consistent. give him that

just constant "world is ending and trump will be king" nonsense.

thats the difference between possible and probable.

There have been a few academic studies on this, and @OnWis97 is not crying wolf here.

The most troubling was a joint study conducted by researchers from Harvard University and University of Melbourne less than five years ago that focused on millennials (i.e., the future of our fucking democracy!). Here's an introductory link to key takeaways from that study, which, I believe contains a link to the study itself.

But we like to ignore elitist stuff like academic studies and just let the goddamn world burn. So keep dismissing it as "this shit," and you should be just fine.

I've made the mistake of reading Sara Kendzior's stuff (she's an historian with much knowledge about authoritarian regimes). I say "mistake" because ignorance may have been bliss. It's happening slowly but Trump and the Party of Trump are moving in that direction. She's predicted everything that's happened since 2015. If he wins and the PoT retains the Senate, that 250-year-old piece of paper isn't going to protect us. It could protect us from Trump, but it won't protect us from the entire party in power.

In a sense, I kind of think America is ready for authoritarianism. Not most Americans, but that's not needed for it to take hold.

As an aside, I'm through Trump's 1970s - 1990s life in her book "Hiding in Plain Sight" and wow. Trump's history of hanging out with the Russian mob (and their long stays at Trump Towers) is something. The most interesting "coincidence" I've read about is that when Jeffery Epstein dropped out of college he was given a teaching job (for which he was unqualified) at an all-girls school. The person that gave him that job was Bill Barr's father.

For all the whining people do about the media being mean to Trump, it's been 30 year puff piece since he started hanging out with Roy Cohn in the 1970s.

DewieCox · October 2020

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

Merkin Baller · October 2020

OnWis97 said:

For all the whining people do about the media being mean to Trump, it's been 30 year puff piece since he started hanging out with Roy Cohn in the 1970s.

Nail on the f'ing head.

Like everything else about Trump, his whining about how poorly he's treated by the media is just one more of his grifts.

Michelle Wolfe also nailed it a few years ago at the White House Correspondents' Dinner:

"You guys are obsessed with Trump. Did you used to date him? Because you pretend like you hate him, but I think you love him. I think what no one in this room wants to admit is that Trump has helped all of you. He couldn’t sell steaks or vodka or water or college or ties or Eric, but he has helped you. He’s helped you sell your papers and your books and your TV."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/30/17301436/michelle-wolf-speech-transcript-white-house-correspondents-dinner-sarah-huckabee-sanders

dankind · October 2020

HughFreakingDillon said:

no one is dismissing anything. after a while the doom and gloom and hyperbole just get tiring.

if he wins, he wins. everyone understand that is still a decent possibility. but it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause. that's the stuff i'm talking about.

Calling it hyperbole is dismissing it, Hugh.

Saying that "it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause" is also dismissing it.

All of the above is largely possible in a country that has been tossed into tumult such as the US has been. It may upset you to read, and you may disagree. But political scientists (dirty word, I know) across the globe have been raising the alarm. Not the media, not politicians, but scholars: People who gather robust data and analyze said data to see if there is evidence of a discernible trend. When you come back with a large study with as robust of a sample size as the ones I've seen, then you have a valid argument. Right now, you just have your opinion, which is worth two things: jack and shit.

For fuck's sake: The Supreme Court of the United States just yesterday signaled that they were OK with maintaining systemic racism in the US because time is money. Sorry minorities and lower-income folks, it's best for us if we just pretend that you don't even exist.

HughFreakingDillon · October 2020

Merkin Baller said:

OnWis97 said:

For all the whining people do about the media being mean to Trump, it's been 30 year puff piece since he started hanging out with Roy Cohn in the 1970s.

Nail on the f'ing head.
Like everything else about Trump, his whining about how poorly he's treated by the media is just one more of his grifts.
Michelle Wolfe also nailed it a few years ago at the White House Correspondents' Dinner:
"You guys are obsessed with Trump. Did you used to date him? Because you pretend like you hate him, but I think you love him. I think what no one in this room wants to admit is that Trump has helped all of you. He couldn’t sell steaks or vodka or water or college or ties or Eric, but he has helped you. He’s helped you sell your papers and your books and your TV."
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/30/17301436/michelle-wolf-speech-transcript-white-house-correspondents-dinner-sarah-huckabee-sanders

i remember that bit, and how bang on it was.

OnWis97 · October 2020

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

"WhAt? He'S NoT pUtTiNg jEwS iN cOnCeNtRaTiOn CaMpS!"

We don't think critically or in nuance. So when you bring up the parallels you get shot down in a hurry. Just like one person's depression hits them differently than another's depression, the result here will not look exactly like Nazi Germany. But in both cases, the parallels are there.

I'm thinking of telling my right-wing "friends" to make a list of authoritarian/dictator shit they would NEVER support. And make the list egregious. "Kicking in the doors of CNN and shutting it down." "Asking citizens to rat out citizens that are critical of the president." Crazy shit. Because if it happens, I want to remind them that there was a time they would not have supported it. But whatever it is, they will. Trump and the GQP have dragged them along inch-by-inch. What would they have said a few years ago to "leaving a SCOTUS seat vacant for nearly a year so the 'right' party can appoint a justice?" or "A president bringing several family members into the administration?" or "A president's daughter, working within the administration while getting voting booth patents from China." or "A president pushing for a military parade in his own honor." (not to even mention all the less authoritarian shit like calling Americans killed in WWII losers).

We're being dragged along slowly. And his supporters are probably a critical mass to make it happen. So much stuff that's happening would not have been acceptable to anyone just a few years ago (I mean, imagine if Michelle Obama was caught on tape having a profanity-laced complaining session about Christmas decorations) is normal now. Everything he does normal now.

Authoritarianism is absolutely on the table. And it could be too late before enough people are aware of it.

mrussel1 · October 2020

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree. The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation. They had massive war reparations as well. The economic situation isn't even in the ball park.

OnWis97 · October 2020

And, yes...I'm a known pessimist. And that feeds my fear and my responses. It causes me to be more results-focused than process-focused (and I mean that in an entirely negative way; it's like when I watch my team get down by a touchdown, I start thinking about the win or loss and not all that has to happen before it). It doesn't serve me well. So, yeah, I need to quit thinking it's a done deal and maybe try to do something about it beyond what I've done (voting and donating to candidates).

But it's on the table. I really objectively believe it and I really believe it's what the party is going for. And I did not make it up...I've read some of the academic* lit about it.

*Hey I heard we cannot trust academics. Now I know why!

dimitrispearljam · October 2020

“Suburban women will you please like me? Suburban women will you please like me?! I saved your damn neighborhoods!”
unreal!!
when trump loses?whats the date?
will happen nsame date or results needs alot of times to be out?

mickeyrat · October 2020

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

no one is dismissing anything. after a while the doom and gloom and hyperbole just get tiring.

if he wins, he wins. everyone understand that is still a decent possibility. but it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause. that's the stuff i'm talking about.

Calling it hyperbole is dismissing it, Hugh.

Saying that "it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause" is also dismissing it.

All of the above is largely possible in a country that has been tossed into tumult such as the US has been. It may upset you to read, and you may disagree. But political scientists (dirty word, I know) across the globe have been raising the alarm. Not the media, not politicians, but scholars: People who gather robust data and analyze said data to see if there is evidence of a discernible trend. When you come back with a large study with as robust of a sample size as the ones I've seen, then you have a valid argument. Right now, you just have your opinion, which is worth two things: jack and shit.

For fuck's sake: The Supreme Court of the United States just yesterday signaled that they were OK with maintaining systemic racism in the US because time is money. Sorry minorities and lower-income folks, it's best for us if we just pretend that you don't even exist.

I signed up for the great courses app. currently listening to US history before I move on to US government course.

its very interesting how the colonies were formed and why. Just covered the section on the colonial courts and how and why they were formed...

ikiT · October 2020

he gonna get crushed.

dankind · October 2020

dimitrispearljam said:

“Suburban women will you please like me? Suburban women will you please like me?! I saved your damn neighborhoods!”
unreal!!
when trump loses?whats the date?
will happen nsame date or results needs alot of times to be out?

Most of the folks who work elections or who follow people who work elections say that because of all the mail-in and absentee ballots this election year, it will probably take a few weeks. We just have to be patient. And vigilant against bad actors in the interim.

mickeyrat · October 2020

ikiT said:

he gonna get crushed.

in ohio the first week of early voting alone was 3 times the number from 16...... record absentee requests.

feels like a record turnout here.

wife posted images from georgia somewhere, folks waiting 12 hours? no way to know unless official sources state it though. HAVE to be skeptical in our thinking about adbook shit..

she also showed one from san antonio I think it was?

HughFreakingDillon · October 2020

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

no one is dismissing anything. after a while the doom and gloom and hyperbole just get tiring.

if he wins, he wins. everyone understand that is still a decent possibility. but it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause. that's the stuff i'm talking about.

Calling it hyperbole is dismissing it, Hugh.

Saying that "it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause" is also dismissing it.

All of the above is largely possible in a country that has been tossed into tumult such as the US has been. It may upset you to read, and you may disagree. But political scientists (dirty word, I know) across the globe have been raising the alarm. Not the media, not politicians, but scholars: People who gather robust data and analyze said data to see if there is evidence of a discernible trend. When you come back with a large study with as robust of a sample size as the ones I've seen, then you have a valid argument. Right now, you just have your opinion, which is worth two things: jack and shit.

For fuck's sake: The Supreme Court of the United States just yesterday signaled that they were OK with maintaining systemic racism in the US because time is money. Sorry minorities and lower-income folks, it's best for us if we just pretend that you don't even exist.

no one is dismissing the scholars or political scientists, so you can just stop with that. believe me, i was on the "the parallels to hitler are real" wagon. and of course it's possible. all i was saying that after a while it gets a bit tiresome.

dignin · October 2020

dankind said:

dimitrispearljam said:

“Suburban women will you please like me? Suburban women will you please like me?! I saved your damn neighborhoods!”
unreal!!
when trump loses?whats the date?
will happen nsame date or results needs alot of times to be out?

Most of the folks who work elections or who follow people who work elections say that because of all the mail-in and absentee ballots this election year, it will probably take a few weeks. We just have to be patient. And vigilant against bad actors in the interim.

That is possible, but it is also possible Biden could win Florida on election night. If so, it's all over.

dimitrispearljam · October 2020

dankind said:

dimitrispearljam said:

“Suburban women will you please like me? Suburban women will you please like me?! I saved your damn neighborhoods!”
unreal!!
when trump loses?whats the date?
will happen nsame date or results needs alot of times to be out?

Most of the folks who work elections or who follow people who work elections say that because of all the mail-in and absentee ballots this election year, it will probably take a few weeks. We just have to be patient. And vigilant against bad actors in the interim.

weeks?wow

OnWis97 · October 2020

dimitrispearljam said:

“Suburban women will you please like me? Suburban women will you please like me?! I saved your damn neighborhoods!”
unreal!!
when trump loses?whats the date?
will happen nsame date or results needs alot of times to be out?

I think all this narcissism and things like "Your Favorite President" are rooted in insecurity. He needs constant validation of his greatness. It might even be why he put all his focus on a base that's already voting for him at a 99.99% rate; because they lack it up. He cannot even deal with diplomatic questions or anything that makes him even have to consider that he's not the greatest (because deep down inside, he knows the answer). The worst part isn't that he's like that; it's the willingness of so many people to placate it.

DewieCox · October 2020

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree. The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation. They had massive war reparations as well. The economic situation isn't even in the ball park.

Seems like the willingness of a populace to accept that specific demographics are inherently weaker and the cause of a country’s decline is a pretty important factor. Willingness to weaponize said populace against other citizens. Our economic system is easily dysfunctional enough to encourage upheaval. Blind nationalism and a leader willing to feed it and exploit it.....

mrussel1 · October 2020

DewieCox said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree. The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation. They had massive war reparations as well. The economic situation isn't even in the ball park.

Seems like the willingness of a populace to accept that specific demographics are inherently weaker and the cause of a country’s decline is a pretty important factor. Willingness to weaponize said populace against other citizens. Our economic system is easily dysfunctional enough to encourage upheaval. Blind nationalism and a leader willing to feed it and exploit it.....

The attack on Jews in Europe had been happening for centuries. There had been multiple pogroms across the continent. So blaming the Jews for the loss of the Great War, Versailles and the general woes of the country was easy exploitation. There is a not a massive, virulent strain of anti-Mexican fervor in this country.
I see hints of things here and there where one could conclude authoritarianism is coming, but I put it in the same boat as those saying Civil War is imminent. The economic conditions just simply do not lead to that end.

F Me In The Brain · October 2020

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

no one is dismissing anything. after a while the doom and gloom and hyperbole just get tiring.

if he wins, he wins. everyone understand that is still a decent possibility. but it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause. that's the stuff i'm talking about.

Calling it hyperbole is dismissing it, Hugh.

Saying that "it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause" is also dismissing it.

All of the above is largely possible in a country that has been tossed into tumult such as the US has been. It may upset you to read, and you may disagree. But political scientists (dirty word, I know) across the globe have been raising the alarm. Not the media, not politicians, but scholars: People who gather robust data and analyze said data to see if there is evidence of a discernible trend. When you come back with a large study with as robust of a sample size as the ones I've seen, then you have a valid argument. Right now, you just have your opinion, which is worth two things: jack and shit.

For fuck's sake: The Supreme Court of the United States just yesterday signaled that they were OK with maintaining systemic racism in the US because time is money. Sorry minorities and lower-income folks, it's best for us if we just pretend that you don't even exist.

no one is dismissing the scholars or political scientists, so you can just stop with that. believe me, i was on the "the parallels to hitler are real" wagon. and of course it's possible. all i was saying that after a while it gets a bit tiresome.

Try living in the US. (Replace the word tiresome with worrisome.)

Donald Trump

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