Donald Trump

gimmesometruth27

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree.  The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation.  They had massive war reparations as well.  The economic situation isn't even in the ball park. 

agreed. talk to me when bread costs $8000.

Kat

Unsurprising and adds to their swampy corruption.

https://twitter.com/TheDailyEdge/status/1316412235007299584

dankind

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

no one is dismissing anything. after a while the doom and gloom and hyperbole just get tiring. 

if he wins, he wins. everyone understand that is still a decent possibility. but it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause. that's the stuff i'm talking about. 

Calling it hyperbole is dismissing it, Hugh.

Saying that "it's not going to be a fucking dictatorship with the eventual crowning of jared and ivanka and jailing of all political opponents without cause" is also dismissing it.

All of the above is largely possible in a country that has been tossed into tumult such as the US has been. It may upset you to read, and you may disagree. But political scientists (dirty word, I know) across the globe have been raising the alarm. Not the media, not politicians, but scholars: People who gather robust data and analyze said data to see if there is evidence of a discernible trend. When you come back with a large study with as robust of a sample size as the ones I've seen, then you have a valid argument. Right now, you just have your opinion, which is worth two things: jack and shit.

For fuck's sake: The Supreme Court of the United States just yesterday signaled that they were OK with maintaining systemic racism in the US because time is money. Sorry minorities and lower-income folks, it's best for us if we just pretend that you don't even exist.

no one is dismissing the scholars or political scientists, so you can just stop with that. believe me, i was on the "the parallels to hitler are real" wagon. and of course it's possible. all i was saying that after a while it gets a bit tiresome. 

I understand.

In my opinion, though, when it gets most tiresome is when we need to reload our resolve.

I'm not a "doom and gloom" pessimist; I'm more of a pragmatist. And right now, for those of us opposed to authoritarian rule who are actually living in the country where those seeds are being sown, it would be pragmatic to keep our guard up and our passports current.

A Biden/Harris win does nothing to change the collected data that suggest the US is slouching towards Bethlehem. The demographic that supports authoritarianism (namely, millennials; now also joined, however, by fervent Trump supporters) will still be voting/making political decisions for a long time to come after 2020. If one reasonably assumes that their political ideologies will go on to influence their offspring, we could be in for a long battle to preserve our democracy.

So while I don't lose sleep over this (yet), it is certainly a lens through which I think it is imperative to view what's going on with Western democracies these days, along with many other lenses, of course.

josevolution

OnWis97 said:

And, yes...I'm a known pessimist.  And that feeds my fear and my responses. It causes me to be more results-focused than process-focused (and I mean that in an entirely negative way; it's like when I watch my team get down by a touchdown, I start thinking about the win or loss and not all that has to  happen before it).  It doesn't serve me well. So, yeah, I need to quit thinking it's a done deal and maybe try to do something about it beyond what I've done (voting and donating to candidates).

But it's on the table.  I really objectively believe it and I really believe it's what the party is going for.  And I did not make it up...I've read some of the academic* lit about it.

*Hey I heard we cannot trust academics.  Now I know why!

I’m in this boat too! I’d like to believe folks here are correct and it won’t happen but I’m not sold on it not happening! 

DewieCox

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree.  The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation.  They had massive war reparations as well.  The economic situation isn't even in the ball park. 

Seems like the willingness of a populace to accept that specific demographics are inherently weaker and the cause of a country’s decline  is a pretty important factor. Willingness to weaponize said populace against other citizens. Our economic system is easily dysfunctional enough to encourage upheaval. Blind nationalism and a leader willing to feed it and exploit it..... 

The attack on Jews in Europe had been happening for centuries.  There had been multiple pogroms across the continent.  So blaming the Jews for the loss of the Great War, Versailles and the general woes of the country was easy exploitation.  There is a not a massive, virulent strain of anti-Mexican fervor in this country.  
I see hints of things here and there where one could conclude authoritarianism is coming, but I put it in the same boat as those saying Civil War is imminent.  The economic conditions just simply do not lead to that end.  

There IS a massive virulent strain of anti liberal fervor in this country. There’s surely equal anti conservative sentiment, but I don’t feel it’s been fed in the same manner and when religion co-opts a political movement all bets and reason are off. 

“Snowball” is too strong in hindsight but there are certainly hallmarks that are being willfully overlooked because they align with ones personal views even when they fly in the face of the law. 

OnWis97

DewieCox said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree.  The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation.  They had massive war reparations as well.  The economic situation isn't even in the ball park. 

Seems like the willingness of a populace to accept that specific demographics are inherently weaker and the cause of a country’s decline  is a pretty important factor. Willingness to weaponize said populace against other citizens. Our economic system is easily dysfunctional enough to encourage upheaval. Blind nationalism and a leader willing to feed it and exploit it..... 

The attack on Jews in Europe had been happening for centuries.  There had been multiple pogroms across the continent.  So blaming the Jews for the loss of the Great War, Versailles and the general woes of the country was easy exploitation.  There is a not a massive, virulent strain of anti-Mexican fervor in this country.  
I see hints of things here and there where one could conclude authoritarianism is coming, but I put it in the same boat as those saying Civil War is imminent.  The economic conditions just simply do not lead to that end.  

There IS a massive virulent strain of anti liberal fervor in this country. There’s surely equal anti conservative sentiment, but I don’t feel it’s been fed in the same manner and when religion co-opts a political movement all bets and reason are off. 

“Snowball” is too strong in hindsight but there are certainly hallmarks that are being willfully overlooked because they align with ones personal views even when they fly in the face of the law. 

  I don't know about "equal."  "Liberal" has been a pejorative for a couple of decades now. It was more of a social media and right-wing radio jackass thing. You didn't hear GWB use it that way, nor too many in the Senate and Congress. Now it's mainstream with those in power. And I think that's where the parallels to Germany start to heat up.  Liberals, unlike conservatives are being scapegoated for whatever ails the base. Yeah, there's always been antisemitism in Europe and there have always been blowhards who demonize liberals, but when the leaders start doing it, the scapegoating becomes semi-official.  So now, those of us who are liberals (and that includes some of you that are not really liberals but just not all-in on Trump) are the bad guys.

What's going on is unprecedented in the US.  The GOP has traditionally rallied around disdain for foreign enemies.  That had the positive impact of bringing Americans together and the negative impact of a love for foreign conflict.  Today's GOP relies on domestic enemies.  It seems to make Trump about the least hawkish president we've had in a long time (a good thing, in a vacuum) but it also creates and unprecedented civil unrest and the opportunity rile everyone up against the enemy. It's an explosive formula that the would-be dictator enjoys.

dignin

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree.  The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation.  They had massive war reparations as well.  The economic situation isn't even in the ball park. 

Seems like the willingness of a populace to accept that specific demographics are inherently weaker and the cause of a country’s decline  is a pretty important factor. Willingness to weaponize said populace against other citizens. Our economic system is easily dysfunctional enough to encourage upheaval. Blind nationalism and a leader willing to feed it and exploit it..... 

The attack on Jews in Europe had been happening for centuries.  There had been multiple pogroms across the continent.  So blaming the Jews for the loss of the Great War, Versailles and the general woes of the country was easy exploitation.  There is a not a massive, virulent strain of anti-Mexican fervor in this country.  
I see hints of things here and there where one could conclude authoritarianism is coming, but I put it in the same boat as those saying Civil War is imminent.  The economic conditions just simply do not lead to that end.  

You need to factor in wealth disparity, automation of jobs, globalization and the age of social media (among other things). Trying to compare this current possible authoritarianism with past authoritarianism isn't really giving this current threat it's due. 

ikiT

dimitrispearljam said:

dankind said:

dimitrispearljam said:

“Suburban women will you please like me? Suburban women will you please like me?! I saved your damn neighborhoods!”
unreal!!
when trump loses?whats the date?
will happen nsame date or results needs alot of times to be out?

Most of the folks who work elections or who follow people who work elections say that because of all the mail-in and absentee ballots this election year, it will probably take a few weeks. We just have to be patient. And vigilant against bad actors in the interim.

weeks?wow

to count 'em all, 2 weeks.

I don't think Trumpito gets to 32%, and that's going to start showing pretty goddamn quickly if they're releasing numbers properly.  

Halifax2TheMax

Oh, Lindsey Flimsy Flip Flop Faloozy, you just can't help yourself. And because you never dog whistle, ever.

Graham draws criticism for referencing ‘the good old days of segregation’ — a statement he said was sarcastic

By Derek Hawkins

Jaime Harrison, Sen. Lindsey O. Graham’s Democratic opponent in the South Carolina Senate race, criticized the Republican chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee for referencing “the good old days of segregation” during Barrett’s confirmation hearing Wednesday morning — a statement Graham said was intended to be sarcastic.

Graham made the remark in a discussion about the Supreme Court’s rulings in two landmark cases that have come up repeatedly in the hearings: Brown v. Board of Education, which struck down segregation laws, and Roe v. Wade, which established abortion rights.

Barrett could voice an opinion about Brown, Graham said, because there was no active litigation related to the segregation at issue in the case.

“One of the reasons you can say with confidence that you think Brown v. Board of Education is super-precedent is that you’re not aware of any effort to go back to the good old days of segregation by a legislative body, is that correct?” Graham asked. Barrett responded in the affirmative.

Harrison’s campaign seized on the remark, saying it showed Graham was “out of touch.”

“Even as peaceful protestors demonstrate across our state for equality and justice, Lindsey can’t help but refer fondly to a time of violent oppression and segregation against African Americans,” campaign spokesman Guy King said in a statement.

“It’s 2020, not 1920. Act like it,” added Harrison, who is Black.

Others expressed alarm at Graham’s words, including Michael Steele, the first black chairman of the Republican National Committee.

Graham responded to the blowback shortly after, saying he made the statement with "deep sarcasm.”

“The point I’m trying to make is that there is nobody in the legislative arena wanting to take us back to that dark time in American history," he told reporters outside the hearing room. “I want to make sure everyone in my state moves forward. In terms of that statement, it blows my mind that anyone can believe that about me.”

A spokesperson for the Graham campaign accused Harrison and others on the political left of "trying to drum up controversy where none exists.”

HughFreakingDillon

honestly, I believe graham here. tone deaf? 100%. but he think he probably thought no one would actually believe he meant that sincerely. 

OnWis97

HughFreakingDillon said:

honestly, I believe graham here. tone deaf? 100%. but he think he probably thought no one would actually believe he meant that sincerely. 

I tend to agree.  But if his opponent seizes on it and it helps him, that's fine by me. 

mrussel1

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree.  The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation.  They had massive war reparations as well.  The economic situation isn't even in the ball park. 

Seems like the willingness of a populace to accept that specific demographics are inherently weaker and the cause of a country’s decline  is a pretty important factor. Willingness to weaponize said populace against other citizens. Our economic system is easily dysfunctional enough to encourage upheaval. Blind nationalism and a leader willing to feed it and exploit it..... 

The attack on Jews in Europe had been happening for centuries.  There had been multiple pogroms across the continent.  So blaming the Jews for the loss of the Great War, Versailles and the general woes of the country was easy exploitation.  There is a not a massive, virulent strain of anti-Mexican fervor in this country.  
I see hints of things here and there where one could conclude authoritarianism is coming, but I put it in the same boat as those saying Civil War is imminent.  The economic conditions just simply do not lead to that end.  

You need to factor in wealth disparity, automation of jobs, globalization and the age of social media (among other things). Trying to compare this current possible authoritarianism with past authoritarianism isn't really giving this current threat it's due. 

We have wealth disparity,  but that's not abject poverty.  

HughFreakingDillon

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

honestly, I believe graham here. tone deaf? 100%. but he think he probably thought no one would actually believe he meant that sincerely. 

I tend to agree.  But if his opponent seizes on it and it helps him, that's fine by me. 

100%. graham has shown his true colours by joining Cult 45. he's a sickening human being. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree.  The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation.  They had massive war reparations as well.  The economic situation isn't even in the ball park. 

Seems like the willingness of a populace to accept that specific demographics are inherently weaker and the cause of a country’s decline  is a pretty important factor. Willingness to weaponize said populace against other citizens. Our economic system is easily dysfunctional enough to encourage upheaval. Blind nationalism and a leader willing to feed it and exploit it..... 

The attack on Jews in Europe had been happening for centuries.  There had been multiple pogroms across the continent.  So blaming the Jews for the loss of the Great War, Versailles and the general woes of the country was easy exploitation.  There is a not a massive, virulent strain of anti-Mexican fervor in this country.  
I see hints of things here and there where one could conclude authoritarianism is coming, but I put it in the same boat as those saying Civil War is imminent.  The economic conditions just simply do not lead to that end.  

You need to factor in wealth disparity, automation of jobs, globalization and the age of social media (among other things). Trying to compare this current possible authoritarianism with past authoritarianism isn't really giving this current threat it's due. 

We have wealth disparity,  but that's not abject poverty.  

What do you consider “abject poverty?” One in five children going hungry everyday? Does the US national debt in this age equate to Germany’s debt/reparations burden as a % of GDP in the lead up to WWII?

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree.  The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation.  They had massive war reparations as well.  The economic situation isn't even in the ball park. 

Seems like the willingness of a populace to accept that specific demographics are inherently weaker and the cause of a country’s decline  is a pretty important factor. Willingness to weaponize said populace against other citizens. Our economic system is easily dysfunctional enough to encourage upheaval. Blind nationalism and a leader willing to feed it and exploit it..... 

The attack on Jews in Europe had been happening for centuries.  There had been multiple pogroms across the continent.  So blaming the Jews for the loss of the Great War, Versailles and the general woes of the country was easy exploitation.  There is a not a massive, virulent strain of anti-Mexican fervor in this country.  
I see hints of things here and there where one could conclude authoritarianism is coming, but I put it in the same boat as those saying Civil War is imminent.  The economic conditions just simply do not lead to that end.  

You need to factor in wealth disparity, automation of jobs, globalization and the age of social media (among other things). Trying to compare this current possible authoritarianism with past authoritarianism isn't really giving this current threat it's due. 

We have wealth disparity,  but that's not abject poverty.  

What do you consider “abject poverty?” One in five children going hungry everyday? Does the US national debt in this age equate to Germany’s debt/reparations burden as a % of GDP in the lead up to WWII?

Compared to the conditions in Europe in the early 20th century,  world of difference.  There was civil unrest constantly before and after the first war all over the continent.  It was spurred by poverty and Marxism.

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

mrussel1 said:

DewieCox said:

Sure reads like they are. From my perspective, we’re riding a snowball towards authoritarianism. The similarities to the Nazi regime aren’t subtle and half the country is complicit or too dense to pick up on it.

I disagree.  The most important factor in Germany's slide into it was the rampant unemployment and run away inflation.  They had massive war reparations as well.  The economic situation isn't even in the ball park. 

Seems like the willingness of a populace to accept that specific demographics are inherently weaker and the cause of a country’s decline  is a pretty important factor. Willingness to weaponize said populace against other citizens. Our economic system is easily dysfunctional enough to encourage upheaval. Blind nationalism and a leader willing to feed it and exploit it..... 

The attack on Jews in Europe had been happening for centuries.  There had been multiple pogroms across the continent.  So blaming the Jews for the loss of the Great War, Versailles and the general woes of the country was easy exploitation.  There is a not a massive, virulent strain of anti-Mexican fervor in this country.  
I see hints of things here and there where one could conclude authoritarianism is coming, but I put it in the same boat as those saying Civil War is imminent.  The economic conditions just simply do not lead to that end.  

You need to factor in wealth disparity, automation of jobs, globalization and the age of social media (among other things). Trying to compare this current possible authoritarianism with past authoritarianism isn't really giving this current threat it's due. 

We have wealth disparity,  but that's not abject poverty.  

What do you consider “abject poverty?” One in five children going hungry everyday? Does the US national debt in this age equate to Germany’s debt/reparations burden as a % of GDP in the lead up to WWII?

Compared to the conditions in Europe in the early 20th century,  world of difference.  There was civil unrest constantly before and after the first war all over the continent.  It was spurred by poverty and Marxism.

I get that but one could argue that we have very similar circumstances here. It may not be 1939 yet but it could be 1933-1934. And south of the border is looking pretty unsettled, as are other places far over the horizon, in this digital, interconnected global economy.

Kat

The Simple Radicals. I think this goes right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehjT9RZdpe4

gimmesometruth27

good thing trump saved my subdivision from the scary low income housing....

dankind

Unlawful entry at our governor’s house in town today while his wife and daughter were home, and the rally folk plan on camping out in front of his residence tonight. So glad to be his neighbor these days. 

He’s a republican, BTW. Just not a Trump republican. 

Good people. 

OnWis97

dankind said:

Unlawful entry at our governor’s house in town today while his wife and daughter were home, and the rally folk plan on camping out in front of his residence tonight. So glad to be his neighbor these days. 

He’s a republican, BTW. Just not a Trump republican. 

Good people. 

Massachusetts?