Police abuse

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

Interesting. AP has a story on the same topic today with national examples.

https://apnews.com/d098a19c1c34749d763fd57a721d9e1d?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

Wow.  How are you gonna reform a system like that? Seems like it really is time to look for an alternative.

I could be wrong, but I think we're at a bit of an inflection point. Things have been way out of control for a while and I think there is support for big police reforms that could actually make a difference. But if the same people and same excuses continue to get in the way, I think support for blowing the whole thing up will grow.

Which is why people are saying the hated slogan Defund The Police.  I mean how many times can you reform and reinvent etc and have it not work before people just see the word reform as dirty and ineffectual?

So Defund The Police does mean eliminate all funding for police? Weren't you arguing the opposite the other day?

Gern Blansten said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Yikes. Not sure if this was posted here. But this is from last August. The bottom tweet is the incident with the cops. 

https://twitter.com/0w064/status/1275765722220761089?s=20

https://twitter.com/IFY0URETOOSHY/status/1275630804891316224?s=20

https://twitter.com/DreMurro/status/1275760203389112327?s=20

Damn shame this didn't get any attention then. This kid would have been a much better face of all of this than George Floyd. Here's a petition to try and get them to reopen the case....

http://chng.it/b9PGMzfnNM

Holy fuck.  They injected him with ketamine on top of the restraining. For wearing a jacket and ski mask....and the officers still serve.  How did this not make the news when it happened?  As for George Floyd being the face of the movement I’m still fine with that.  Everyone deserves to try to do better and not be forever in debt to prior criminal charges that they have paid for.  The goal is for convicts to be reformed and it sounds like he was doing just that.  He (unfortunately for him) was the one that was there when the cameras were rolling and the tipping point was reached.  

I didn't even notice the ketamine mention on the petition site. Unbelievable. As for Floyd being the face of this, I guess Dave Chappelle said it best, "We didn't choose him. You [the cops, presumably] did."

I don't remember hearing anything about this story....horribly sad

cutz said:

Gern Blansten said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Yikes. Not sure if this was posted here. But this is from last August. The bottom tweet is the incident with the cops. 

https://twitter.com/0w064/status/1275765722220761089?s=20

https://twitter.com/IFY0URETOOSHY/status/1275630804891316224?s=20

https://twitter.com/DreMurro/status/1275760203389112327?s=20

Damn shame this didn't get any attention then. This kid would have been a much better face of all of this than George Floyd. Here's a petition to try and get them to reopen the case....

http://chng.it/b9PGMzfnNM

Holy fuck.  They injected him with ketamine on top of the restraining. For wearing a jacket and ski mask....and the officers still serve.  How did this not make the news when it happened?  As for George Floyd being the face of the movement I’m still fine with that.  Everyone deserves to try to do better and not be forever in debt to prior criminal charges that they have paid for.  The goal is for convicts to be reformed and it sounds like he was doing just that.  He (unfortunately for him) was the one that was there when the cameras were rolling and the tipping point was reached.  

I didn't even notice the ketamine mention on the petition site. Unbelievable. As for Floyd being the face of this, I guess Dave Chappelle said it best, "We didn't choose him. You [the cops, presumably] did."

I don't remember hearing anything about this story....horribly sad

I don't remember this story either.  Why did they inject him with that Drug? 

Real sad. 

He, along with two other officers have been fired from the department after dash-cam footage recorded two phone conversations — accidentally — and a supervisor conducting a routine audit of the videos found the disturbing content.

Michael ‘Kevin’ Piner, James ‘Brian’ Gilmore, and Jessie E. Moore II were all terminated from the force. The announcement came from the new Chief of Police Donny Williams — not even 24-hours into his first day as chief

The former officers actively tried to prevent a release of the information, and an attorney filed an apparently unsuccessful motion for a temporary restraining order, but ultimately the city decided it was the right thing to do.

On June 4, just days after protests began in Wilmington regarding the murder of George Floyd in Minnesota, a Sergeant Heflin was conducting monthly video audits — a routine part of her job — when she came across what was labeled as ‘accidental activations’ from Piner’s car.

Apparently, the car’s camera system was recording despite not being ‘activated’ for an incident (typically cameras are recording at all times but will not keep the recordings unless an officer triggers the system).

After skipping through the video, which was largely video of his backseat, she found a conversation between Piner and Corporal Jessie Moore — a police officer with the department since 1997.

She reviewed the conversation she ‘heard comments, extremely racist comments made by both Piner and Moore,” according to a summary provided by police.

The video also recorded a conversation with Officer Gilmore who apparently had pulled up next to Piner’s car.

Both conversations were explicit and racist in content.

According to the investigation summary, at 6:51 a.m., on a date not listed, Piner and Gilmore are recorded having a conversation.

“Their conversation eventually turned to the topic of the protests against racism occurring across the nation. Piner tells Gilmore that the only thing this agency is concerned with ‘kneeling down with the black folks.’ Gilmore then said that he watched a video on social media about white people bowing down on their knees and ‘worshipping blacks,'” according to the summary.

The conversation then turned to other police officers in the Wilmington Police Department — black officers.

The audio has Piner calling one of the officers ‘bad news’ and a ‘piece of shit.’

“Let’s see how his boys take care of him when shit gets rough, see if they don’t put a bullet in his head,” Piner said about a fellow officer.

That conversation ends as Piner goes to respond to an alarm call.

A civil war is coming’
The second of the two conversations that day happened after Piner received a phone call from Moore.

According to the summary, “Moore began telling Piner about an arrest he had made at work the day before. During that conversation, Moore refers to the female as a ‘negro’ and a ‘ni—-‘ on multiple occasions.”

He also referred to a magistrate judge, who is also black, as a ‘fucking negro magistrate.’

“At one point, Moore states, ‘she needed a bullet in her head right then and move on. Let’s move the body out of the way and keep going.’ Piner responds, ‘That’s what I have been trying to tell you,'” according to the documents.

After more derogatory comments about the arrestee and the magistrate, the conversation takes an even bleaker turn, as the two officers discuss an upcoming ‘civil war.’

“Piner tells Moore later in the conversation that he feels a civil war is coming and he is ‘ready.’ Piner advised he is going to buy a new assault rifle in the next couple of weeks. A short time later Officer Piner began to discuss society being close to ‘martial law’ and soon ‘we are just gonna go out and start slaughtering them fucking ni—–. I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.’ Moore responded that he would not do that. Piner stated, ‘I am ready.'” according to the summary.

“Officer Piner then explained to Cpl. Moore that he felt society needed a civil war to ‘wipe ’em off the fucking map. That’ll put ’em back about four or five generations.'”

After the conversations were discovered police launched their own investigations into the incidents. None of the officers involved denied saying the things they said, according to WPD>

“Each officer admitted it was their voice on the video. They did not deny saying any of the things heard on the video. Each officer pointed to the stress of today’s climate in law enforcement as a reason for their ‘venting,'” according to the investigation.

tempo_n_groove said:

pjl44 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Good cop/bad cop.

As I am sure there isn't a formula we can conjure up to make a bad cop good.  The term "reform" gets thrown around a lot.

How are we going to reform them?  What magic training courses are offered that are going to fix this?

I would love to see police officers walking a beat more and interact with the very people they were sworn to protect.

Training courses would be at the bottom of the list. This is extremely shorthand but reforms I've seen suggested that could have a workable final form include:

- Ending qualified immunity
- Limiting police union activity to negotiating wages and benefits
- Independent municipal/community oversight of discipline
- Moving certain duties away from police (traffic enforcement, some crisis response, etc.)
- Public visibility into discipline records
- Fewer criminal laws (drug legalization/decriminalization, etc.)

I might think of more but stuff like that 

Why would any union not negotiate wages?  That doesn't make sense.

Removing traffic enforcement would only create another division to do that.  If they do would that be at a cheaper cost?

All the others I am fine with.

tempo_n_groove said:

pjl44 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Good cop/bad cop.

As I am sure there isn't a formula we can conjure up to make a bad cop good.  The term "reform" gets thrown around a lot.

How are we going to reform them?  What magic training courses are offered that are going to fix this?

I would love to see police officers walking a beat more and interact with the very people they were sworn to protect.

Training courses would be at the bottom of the list. This is extremely shorthand but reforms I've seen suggested that could have a workable final form include:

- Ending qualified immunity
- Limiting police union activity to negotiating wages and benefits
- Independent municipal/community oversight of discipline
- Moving certain duties away from police (traffic enforcement, some crisis response, etc.)
- Public visibility into discipline records
- Fewer criminal laws (drug legalization/decriminalization, etc.)

I might think of more but stuff like that 

Why would any union not negotiate wages?  That doesn't make sense.

Removing traffic enforcement would only create another division to do that.  If they do would that be at a cheaper cost?

All the others I am fine with.

pjl44 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

pjl44 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Good cop/bad cop.

As I am sure there isn't a formula we can conjure up to make a bad cop good.  The term "reform" gets thrown around a lot.

How are we going to reform them?  What magic training courses are offered that are going to fix this?

I would love to see police officers walking a beat more and interact with the very people they were sworn to protect.

Training courses would be at the bottom of the list. This is extremely shorthand but reforms I've seen suggested that could have a workable final form include:

- Ending qualified immunity
- Limiting police union activity to negotiating wages and benefits
- Independent municipal/community oversight of discipline
- Moving certain duties away from police (traffic enforcement, some crisis response, etc.)
- Public visibility into discipline records
- Fewer criminal laws (drug legalization/decriminalization, etc.)

I might think of more but stuff like that 

Why would any union not negotiate wages?  That doesn't make sense.

Removing traffic enforcement would only create another division to do that.  If they do would that be at a cheaper cost?

All the others I am fine with.

Like oftenreading said, *limited to only* negotiating wages (i.e., not involved in complaints, etc.)

I can't imagine cost getting in the way of splintering off traffic enforcement. Maybe a little more overhead with management? Maybe wages are less than a police officer? You could make an argument either way, but hard for me to see it being prohibitively expensive.