If Heterosexualism Existed, We Wouldn’t Have To Make It Up
Comments
-
mickeyrat said:ecdanc said:mickeyrat said:ecdanc said:F Me In The Brain said:ecdanc said:F Me In The Brain said:ecdanc said:F Me In The Brain said:
I wish they had more pictures in these threads. You are spot on with your assessment of me -- reading is very difficult.
You lost me at 'Now you must come to believe...'.being a member of said org. No where in the literature I've read several times over does it say "now you must come to believe"what the outline of the steps you'll find on posters in most meetings does it say you must. it says "we came to believe......"theres a few places where it does say must, but not as written by you.the entire program is based on suggestion a member is free to reject.thank you. a request if I may. there is enough misunderstanding and misinformation about what aa is, what it does and what it suggests out there. please becone educated enough about it to use accurate statements when speaking of it in whatever context in the future.I would appreciate it.0 -
ecdanc said:mickeyrat said:ecdanc said:mickeyrat said:ecdanc said:F Me In The Brain said:ecdanc said:F Me In The Brain said:ecdanc said:F Me In The Brain said:
I wish they had more pictures in these threads. You are spot on with your assessment of me -- reading is very difficult.
You lost me at 'Now you must come to believe...'.being a member of said org. No where in the literature I've read several times over does it say "now you must come to believe"what the outline of the steps you'll find on posters in most meetings does it say you must. it says "we came to believe......"theres a few places where it does say must, but not as written by you.the entire program is based on suggestion a member is free to reject.thank you. a request if I may. there is enough misunderstanding and misinformation about what aa is, what it does and what it suggests out there. please becone educated enough about it to use accurate statements when speaking of it in whatever context in the future.I would appreciate it.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
benjs said:Thanks for posting this. I'm still digesting, but here are my first thoughts.
1. Outside of academia, I suspect most will be confused right from the get-go, where heterosexuality is given a different definition compared to the colloquially used one (a man and a woman), with no explanation or acknowledgement to that effect. That atypical definition is continued all the way through to the end.
2. I'm all for introducing an embrace of otherness to combat and curb systemic injustices that exist today, but the tone used almost seems to err on the opposite direction - instilling guilt in those who have simply woken up being attracted to a certain type of person, and masking it as clever satire. It seems clear that she understands this portion of gender challenges well, but I think her mechanism of changing hearts and minds is deeply flawed.
3. I don't have cable, nor the desire to access a show called Love Island on the internet. I don't know whether the show is about any of the letters in LGBTQ+ getting with any other letters in LGBTQ+, or about what I've only ever heard referred to as heterosexual relationships (and what would you call those now, or is labelling itself an abhorrent act?). Which ever two individuals are trying to get with each other on a show like this, I don't see why I should care regardless of my sexual orientation
4. Traditional gender archetypes gave us critical skills that have led to the perpetuation of our society. Does every person born with female genitalia have a destiny of being deeply empathetic, and every person born with male genitalia have a destiny of being aggressive and assertive? No; but these are predispositions formed in natural ways. What do you suggest we do as a society to assure that we still have expertise in those realms, or do you feel that gender naturally skews people to favour one of those and that we would be more well-rounded in a world without the concept of a gender?
I'll turn, then, to your last point. I obviously cannot speak for Lewis (I don't know her), so I'll only speak for myself. I question your assertion that "these are predispositions formed in natural ways." I'm not sure I fully disagree, but the word "natural" there concerns me, because it does a lot of work. What exactly constitutes this "natural" miasma in which individuals and/or groups develop purported gender characteristics? I would argue that gender, as such, is overdetermined by a complex set of material conditions and discourses that make gender--both as a construct and in its specific manifestations--no more "natural" than any number of other socio-discursive formations. Which is to say, we can and should imagine new social forms that retain that which is worth retaining, while stripping away the harmful elements. Many believe such a future will require fundamentally rejecting "gender" as a meaningful concept. I'll defer that question for the moment by simply saying I find Lewis's gesture toward future forms (in the 2nd half of this piece) intriguing and worth exploring/pursuing.
0 -
Maybe now that some of the troll activity has died down, the conversation can begin!0
-
The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
I'm a fan.
The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
0
-
-
ecdanc said:benjs said:Thanks for posting this. I'm still digesting, but here are my first thoughts.
1. Outside of academia, I suspect most will be confused right from the get-go, where heterosexuality is given a different definition compared to the colloquially used one (a man and a woman), with no explanation or acknowledgement to that effect. That atypical definition is continued all the way through to the end.
2. I'm all for introducing an embrace of otherness to combat and curb systemic injustices that exist today, but the tone used almost seems to err on the opposite direction - instilling guilt in those who have simply woken up being attracted to a certain type of person, and masking it as clever satire. It seems clear that she understands this portion of gender challenges well, but I think her mechanism of changing hearts and minds is deeply flawed.
3. I don't have cable, nor the desire to access a show called Love Island on the internet. I don't know whether the show is about any of the letters in LGBTQ+ getting with any other letters in LGBTQ+, or about what I've only ever heard referred to as heterosexual relationships (and what would you call those now, or is labelling itself an abhorrent act?). Which ever two individuals are trying to get with each other on a show like this, I don't see why I should care regardless of my sexual orientation
4. Traditional gender archetypes gave us critical skills that have led to the perpetuation of our society. Does every person born with female genitalia have a destiny of being deeply empathetic, and every person born with male genitalia have a destiny of being aggressive and assertive? No; but these are predispositions formed in natural ways. What do you suggest we do as a society to assure that we still have expertise in those realms, or do you feel that gender naturally skews people to favour one of those and that we would be more well-rounded in a world without the concept of a gender?
I'll turn, then, to your last point. I obviously cannot speak for Lewis (I don't know her), so I'll only speak for myself. I question your assertion that "these are predispositions formed in natural ways." I'm not sure I fully disagree, but the word "natural" there concerns me, because it does a lot of work. What exactly constitutes this "natural" miasma in which individuals and/or groups develop purported gender characteristics? I would argue that gender, as such, is overdetermined by a complex set of material conditions and discourses that make gender--both as a construct and in its specific manifestations--no more "natural" than any number of other socio-discursive formations. Which is to say, we can and should imagine new social forms that retain that which is worth retaining, while stripping away the harmful elements. Many believe such a future will require fundamentally rejecting "gender" as a meaningful concept. I'll defer that question for the moment by simply saying I find Lewis's gesture toward future forms (in the 2nd half of this piece) intriguing and worth exploring/pursuing.
On your first paragraph - totally makes sense, I was more commenting on the value that we on the forums could potentially derive from it, and why it seems some are missing the author's point.
On your second paragraph, I can appreciate where you're coming from. Perhaps to remove any stigma associated with that, the term "organic" might've been better (as in societies have organically evolved to produce gender archetypes). In terms of removing gender archetypes, I'm all for it. The difference between the author and me, probably, is that I'm able to wrap my head around removing "gender archetypes", but not yet the concept of removing genders themselves. To be clear, I'm not saying I'm opposed, I'm just still in "thinking" mode. Technically what both she and you are saying makes a lot of sense, as long as we can make these changes responsibly and parent to teach children of any/all/no gender to perpetuate the skills society has come to depend on from certain types (genders) of individuals. This is totally within our grasps, and ultimately promoting being a renaissance person with a multitude of interests and capabilities is something I'm always an advocate for - maybe this is even an expedited way to reach that end goal.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
They had artificial insemination in the 3rd century?0
-
The second time I’ve heard of it now. What in turtle’s name will spawn ruminations on gender roles now?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/15/entertainment/caroline-flack-love-island-dead-trnd/index.html
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0
Categories
- All Categories
- 148.8K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110K The Porch
- 274 Vitalogy
- 35K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.1K Flea Market
- 39.1K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.7K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help