Can Dictatorship/Authoritarianism Happen in the US?

mrussel1 · February 2020

Anything's possible, but not time to worry

gimmesometruth27 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

dignin said:

Justice Department undercuts own prosecutors on Trump ally Stone's sentencing
The revised sentencing memorandum, which is expected to be filed in Washington federal court later Tuesday, comes hours after President Donald Trump publicly criticized the recommendation, and the move will again raise questions about the Justice Department's independence from political pressure.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/politics/roger-stone-sentencing-justice-department/index.html

Banana republic.

Rotten banana republic.

did someone say banana hammock?

I only shop at Structure.

drakeheuer14 · February 2020

No way

Come on now. People dwell on fear of the improbable enough already.

OnWis97 · August 2020

We very well may be on the way

So let's see, since this petered out we've seen the dismantling of the US Post Office and now Trump is going to send law "enforcement" to protect polling places from "fraud."

Anyone want to change their answer here?

dignin · August 2020

OnWis97 said:

So let's see, since this petered out we've seen the dismantling of the US Post Office and now Trump is going to send law "enforcement" to protect polling places from "fraud."

Anyone want to change their answer here?

Mine remains the same. Of course.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2020

Anything's possible, but not time to worry

OnWis97 said:

So let's see, since this petered out we've seen the dismantling of the US Post Office and now Trump is going to send law "enforcement" to protect polling places from "fraud."

Anyone want to change their answer here?

he has no authority to do so. just because he wants to be a dictator, doesn't mean he's able.

oftenreading · August 2020

Dictators have not, historically, tended to play by the existing rules.

mrussel1 · August 2020

Anything's possible, but not time to worry

OnWis97 said:

So let's see, since this petered out we've seen the dismantling of the US Post Office and now Trump is going to send law "enforcement" to protect polling places from "fraud."

Anyone want to change their answer here?

The Constitution has always been fragile. It depends completely on the commitment to it by the citizens, the elected gov't and the military. Loss of trust in the institutions by any of those three entity could lead to collapse and potentially an authoritarian figure. Trump on his own could never achieve such an end. Nor could Trump plus his voters. The reality is, like it is in every other country, the fate of the democracy rests in the military truly believing and honoring its oath to the Constitution.

oftenreading · August 2020

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

So let's see, since this petered out we've seen the dismantling of the US Post Office and now Trump is going to send law "enforcement" to protect polling places from "fraud."

Anyone want to change their answer here?

The Constitution has always been fragile. It depends completely on the commitment to it by the citizens, the elected gov't and the military. Loss of trust in the institutions by any of those three entity could lead to collapse and potentially an authoritarian figure. Trump on his own could never achieve such an end. Nor could Trump plus his voters. The reality is, like it is in every other country, the fate of the democracy rests in the military truly believing and honoring its oath to the Constitution.

I agree it isn't about one factor, i.e. his desire for this, or even his desire plus support of his inner circle, but several factors falling into place. I don't entirely rule it out, though.

mrussel1 · August 2020

Anything's possible, but not time to worry

oftenreading said:

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

So let's see, since this petered out we've seen the dismantling of the US Post Office and now Trump is going to send law "enforcement" to protect polling places from "fraud."

Anyone want to change their answer here?

The Constitution has always been fragile. It depends completely on the commitment to it by the citizens, the elected gov't and the military. Loss of trust in the institutions by any of those three entity could lead to collapse and potentially an authoritarian figure. Trump on his own could never achieve such an end. Nor could Trump plus his voters. The reality is, like it is in every other country, the fate of the democracy rests in the military truly believing and honoring its oath to the Constitution.

I agree it isn't about one factor, i.e. his desire for this, or even his desire plus support of his inner circle, but several factors falling into place. I don't entirely rule it out, though.

Definitely can't rule it out.

Meltdown99 · August 2020

No way

The US has been an authoritarian...how many people are sitting in US jails on trumped up charges, are serving sentences that are excessive and trumped up cannabis charges...jeesh. Your country doesn’t think twice about wrongfully stealing peoples freedom... from

OnWis97 · August 2020

We very well may be on the way

I'm very aware that the President cannot consider himself a dictator and then it's done. I knew before he was elected that he imagined himself being a dictator; not so much for the reasons we're seeing now but because he'd spent his entire life around yes-men and he did not understand the office. But I believed that the Constitution, societal norms, the public, and checks-and-balances would have us covered. I was wrong. The Constitution prepared for Trump, but it did not prepare for an entire party to step aside and let him become a dictator. I suppose after what Moscow Mitch did to Obama's SCOTUS appointment, I shouldn't have been so naive. I also didn't realize the unprecedented level of devotion...

Now? We have a president projecting (as the right tends to do these days) about cheating. His donor is making it more difficult to vote and now he's going to have law enforcement stop people from voting (at least, that's what it looks like). Will they do that for him? Probably. Cops love the Don. Hell, cops in Ohio arrested Stormy Daniels for no reason a few years ago; one of our early slices of fascism. It only takes a few of them in a few states. I don't think you'll see much activity in New York, Wyoming, Texas, California, etc. Minnesota? Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Yeah. Meanwhile, all of his devotees will #backtheblue and either talk themselves into thinking the re-election was clean or they won't even care.

The point about the military will probably be moot. They're not needed to help Trump win the election the way he wants to win it. It becomes an interesting point if Biden wins and Trump tries to stay in office. He'd be the Commander in Chief but I'd like to think military leadership would understand the gravity of the situation and protect the Republic, even if they do prefer Trump to Biden. But who even knows any more?

mrussel1 · August 2020

Anything's possible, but not time to worry

OnWis97 said:

I'm very aware that the President cannot consider himself a dictator and then it's done. I knew before he was elected that he imagined himself being a dictator; not so much for the reasons we're seeing now but because he'd spent his entire life around yes-men and he did not understand the office. But I believed that the Constitution, societal norms, the public, and checks-and-balances would have us covered. I was wrong. The Constitution prepared for Trump, but it did not prepare for an entire party to step aside and let him become a dictator. I suppose after what Moscow Mitch did to Obama's SCOTUS appointment, I shouldn't have been so naive. I also didn't realize the unprecedented level of devotion...

Now? We have a president projecting (as the right tends to do these days) about cheating. His donor is making it more difficult to vote and now he's going to have law enforcement stop people from voting (at least, that's what it looks like). Will they do that for him? Probably. Cops love the Don. Hell, cops in Ohio arrested Stormy Daniels for no reason a few years ago; one of our early slices of fascism. It only takes a few of them in a few states. I don't think you'll see much activity in New York, Wyoming, Texas, California, etc. Minnesota? Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Yeah. Meanwhile, all of his devotees will #backtheblue and either talk themselves into thinking the re-election was clean or they won't even care.

The point about the military will probably be moot. They're not needed to help Trump win the election the way he wants to win it. It becomes an interesting point if Biden wins and Trump tries to stay in office. He'd be the Commander in Chief but I'd like to think military leadership would understand the gravity of the situation and protect the Republic, even if they do prefer Trump to Biden. But who even knows any more?

In the scenario you're scoping out, I'm not thinking about Trump winning the election illegally, I'm thinking about him losing the election and refusing to leave for a variety of a reasons/excuses.

Ledbetterman10 · August 2020

No way

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

I'm very aware that the President cannot consider himself a dictator and then it's done. I knew before he was elected that he imagined himself being a dictator; not so much for the reasons we're seeing now but because he'd spent his entire life around yes-men and he did not understand the office. But I believed that the Constitution, societal norms, the public, and checks-and-balances would have us covered. I was wrong. The Constitution prepared for Trump, but it did not prepare for an entire party to step aside and let him become a dictator. I suppose after what Moscow Mitch did to Obama's SCOTUS appointment, I shouldn't have been so naive. I also didn't realize the unprecedented level of devotion...

Now? We have a president projecting (as the right tends to do these days) about cheating. His donor is making it more difficult to vote and now he's going to have law enforcement stop people from voting (at least, that's what it looks like). Will they do that for him? Probably. Cops love the Don. Hell, cops in Ohio arrested Stormy Daniels for no reason a few years ago; one of our early slices of fascism. It only takes a few of them in a few states. I don't think you'll see much activity in New York, Wyoming, Texas, California, etc. Minnesota? Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Yeah. Meanwhile, all of his devotees will #backtheblue and either talk themselves into thinking the re-election was clean or they won't even care.

The point about the military will probably be moot. They're not needed to help Trump win the election the way he wants to win it. It becomes an interesting point if Biden wins and Trump tries to stay in office. He'd be the Commander in Chief but I'd like to think military leadership would understand the gravity of the situation and protect the Republic, even if they do prefer Trump to Biden. But who even knows any more?

In the scenario you're scoping out, I'm not thinking about Trump winning the election illegally, I'm thinking about him losing the election and refusing to leave for a variety of a reasons/excuses.

I can’t believe people actually think this. He’d be dragged out of the White House in handcuffs by the secret service or federal agents if he refused to leave on Inauguration Day. Frankly, they’d probably love to do it. These are people that have dedicated their lives to government work. They’re not going to take orders from some gameshow host any longer than the law obligates them to.

mrussel1 · August 2020

Anything's possible, but not time to worry

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

I'm very aware that the President cannot consider himself a dictator and then it's done. I knew before he was elected that he imagined himself being a dictator; not so much for the reasons we're seeing now but because he'd spent his entire life around yes-men and he did not understand the office. But I believed that the Constitution, societal norms, the public, and checks-and-balances would have us covered. I was wrong. The Constitution prepared for Trump, but it did not prepare for an entire party to step aside and let him become a dictator. I suppose after what Moscow Mitch did to Obama's SCOTUS appointment, I shouldn't have been so naive. I also didn't realize the unprecedented level of devotion...

Now? We have a president projecting (as the right tends to do these days) about cheating. His donor is making it more difficult to vote and now he's going to have law enforcement stop people from voting (at least, that's what it looks like). Will they do that for him? Probably. Cops love the Don. Hell, cops in Ohio arrested Stormy Daniels for no reason a few years ago; one of our early slices of fascism. It only takes a few of them in a few states. I don't think you'll see much activity in New York, Wyoming, Texas, California, etc. Minnesota? Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Yeah. Meanwhile, all of his devotees will #backtheblue and either talk themselves into thinking the re-election was clean or they won't even care.

The point about the military will probably be moot. They're not needed to help Trump win the election the way he wants to win it. It becomes an interesting point if Biden wins and Trump tries to stay in office. He'd be the Commander in Chief but I'd like to think military leadership would understand the gravity of the situation and protect the Republic, even if they do prefer Trump to Biden. But who even knows any more?

In the scenario you're scoping out, I'm not thinking about Trump winning the election illegally, I'm thinking about him losing the election and refusing to leave for a variety of a reasons/excuses.

I can’t believe people actually think this. He’d be dragged out of the White House in handcuffs by the secret service or federal agents if he refused to leave on Inauguration Day. Frankly, they’d probably love to do it. These are people that have dedicated their lives to government work. They’re not going to take orders from some gameshow host any longer than the law obligates them to.

One would hope not. But don't underestimate what Trump offers to the leaders in return for fealty. I'm not saying it's going to happen nor is it probable. I'm saying I believe he will do whatever he can to not lose.

OnWis97 · August 2020

We very well may be on the way

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

I'm very aware that the President cannot consider himself a dictator and then it's done. I knew before he was elected that he imagined himself being a dictator; not so much for the reasons we're seeing now but because he'd spent his entire life around yes-men and he did not understand the office. But I believed that the Constitution, societal norms, the public, and checks-and-balances would have us covered. I was wrong. The Constitution prepared for Trump, but it did not prepare for an entire party to step aside and let him become a dictator. I suppose after what Moscow Mitch did to Obama's SCOTUS appointment, I shouldn't have been so naive. I also didn't realize the unprecedented level of devotion...

Now? We have a president projecting (as the right tends to do these days) about cheating. His donor is making it more difficult to vote and now he's going to have law enforcement stop people from voting (at least, that's what it looks like). Will they do that for him? Probably. Cops love the Don. Hell, cops in Ohio arrested Stormy Daniels for no reason a few years ago; one of our early slices of fascism. It only takes a few of them in a few states. I don't think you'll see much activity in New York, Wyoming, Texas, California, etc. Minnesota? Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Yeah. Meanwhile, all of his devotees will #backtheblue and either talk themselves into thinking the re-election was clean or they won't even care.

The point about the military will probably be moot. They're not needed to help Trump win the election the way he wants to win it. It becomes an interesting point if Biden wins and Trump tries to stay in office. He'd be the Commander in Chief but I'd like to think military leadership would understand the gravity of the situation and protect the Republic, even if they do prefer Trump to Biden. But who even knows any more?

In the scenario you're scoping out, I'm not thinking about Trump winning the election illegally, I'm thinking about him losing the election and refusing to leave for a variety of a reasons/excuses.

In the scenario of him losing, it gets messy and I really hope we can just get him out and move on. Barr is an absolute evil genius...hopefully he’ll focus on saving Trump’s ass with the SDNY as opposed to working on getting him inaugurated.

It’s a Trump win where I think it’s over for the America we know, particularly if Moscow Mitch wins and the GQP retains the Senate. Also, the win will come with blatant cheating that the GQP will look the other way on. We’re looking at a one-party system.

HughFreakingDillon · August 2020

Anything's possible, but not time to worry

oftenreading said:

Dictators have not, historically, tended to play by the existing rules.

i'm quite aware, changing the constitution is pretty damn difficult. no way it happens. it just won't.

all of the other shit that people are up in arms about (including myself) "he can't do that, can he?", depends on the senate and their willingness to hold him to account or not. getting on the ballot a 3rd time would require an amendment, which you obviously know.

this isn't the same as his executive orders to stop travel from islamic countries (which also ultimately failed).

HughFreakingDillon · August 2020

Anything's possible, but not time to worry

if he loses he'll probably file with the courts to overturn, which will get shot down.

i'm not saying he won't try. he will. he'll whine and cry all the way from nov 3 to jan 20. and there might even be blood spilled. but he won't stay in office if he loses.

bootlegger10 · August 2020

Anything's possible, but not time to worry

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

I'm very aware that the President cannot consider himself a dictator and then it's done. I knew before he was elected that he imagined himself being a dictator; not so much for the reasons we're seeing now but because he'd spent his entire life around yes-men and he did not understand the office. But I believed that the Constitution, societal norms, the public, and checks-and-balances would have us covered. I was wrong. The Constitution prepared for Trump, but it did not prepare for an entire party to step aside and let him become a dictator. I suppose after what Moscow Mitch did to Obama's SCOTUS appointment, I shouldn't have been so naive. I also didn't realize the unprecedented level of devotion...

Now? We have a president projecting (as the right tends to do these days) about cheating. His donor is making it more difficult to vote and now he's going to have law enforcement stop people from voting (at least, that's what it looks like). Will they do that for him? Probably. Cops love the Don. Hell, cops in Ohio arrested Stormy Daniels for no reason a few years ago; one of our early slices of fascism. It only takes a few of them in a few states. I don't think you'll see much activity in New York, Wyoming, Texas, California, etc. Minnesota? Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Yeah. Meanwhile, all of his devotees will #backtheblue and either talk themselves into thinking the re-election was clean or they won't even care.

The point about the military will probably be moot. They're not needed to help Trump win the election the way he wants to win it. It becomes an interesting point if Biden wins and Trump tries to stay in office. He'd be the Commander in Chief but I'd like to think military leadership would understand the gravity of the situation and protect the Republic, even if they do prefer Trump to Biden. But who even knows any more?

In the scenario you're scoping out, I'm not thinking about Trump winning the election illegally, I'm thinking about him losing the election and refusing to leave for a variety of a reasons/excuses.

I can’t believe people actually think this. He’d be dragged out of the White House in handcuffs by the secret service or federal agents if he refused to leave on Inauguration Day. Frankly, they’d probably love to do it. These are people that have dedicated their lives to government work. They’re not going to take orders from some gameshow host any longer than the law obligates them to.

One would hope not. But don't underestimate what Trump offers to the leaders in return for fealty. I'm not saying it's going to happen nor is it probable. I'm saying I believe he will do whatever he can to not lose.

I think the Republican leaders fear Trump and that is why he gets their devotion. They don’t get anything from him other than he doesn’t attack them. Once he is out of office the Lindsay Graham’s of the party will be thrilled he is gone and they don’t have to deal with his hold over the base.

OnWis97 · November 2020

We very well may be on the way

Anybody wanna change their vote? I'm sitting on mine, but I think I might be bumping it "up" before December 14.

josevolution · November 2020

We very well may be on the way

OnWis97 said:

Anybody wanna change their vote? I'm sitting on mine, but I think I might be bumping it "up" before December 14.

I bet most would change specially with what’s happened over the last two weeks! I wonder what Vegas odds are that the Covidiot doesn’t leave on 1/21?

Can Dictatorship/Authoritarianism Happen in the US?

Comments

Justice Department undercuts own prosecutors on Trump ally Stone's sentencing

Categories