Can Dictatorship/Authoritarianism Happen in the US?

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Comments

  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    Never thought we'd have to pass a ton of new laws protecting election results.

    A few sh!theads shouldn't be able to overturn millions of votes, but here we are.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882
    Anything's possible, but not time to worry
    Smellyman said:
    Never thought we'd have to pass a ton of new laws protecting election results.

    A few sh!theads shouldn't be able to overturn millions of votes, but here we are.
    That hasn't happened.  At this point,  it's noise.  The certifications have started. 
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    Never thought we'd have to pass a ton of new laws protecting election results.

    A few sh!theads shouldn't be able to overturn millions of votes, but here we are.
    That hasn't happened.  At this point,  it's noise.  The certifications have started. 

    I know, but it is showing the cracks in the armor.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882
    Anything's possible, but not time to worry
    Smellyman said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    Never thought we'd have to pass a ton of new laws protecting election results.

    A few sh!theads shouldn't be able to overturn millions of votes, but here we are.
    That hasn't happened.  At this point,  it's noise.  The certifications have started. 

    I know, but it is showing the cracks in the armor.
    What you may be thinking are cracks are what I see as the noise.  Until a key case is lost,  I'm not concerned personally.  I think Trump is probing around and setting fires,  but the fact that the governors select what the legitimate electors are,  and all the key states have D governors,  is the ultimate ace. 
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,086
    We're already there
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    Never thought we'd have to pass a ton of new laws protecting election results.

    A few sh!theads shouldn't be able to overturn millions of votes, but here we are.
    That hasn't happened.  At this point,  it's noise.  The certifications have started. 

    I know, but it is showing the cracks in the armor.
    What you may be thinking are cracks are what I see as the noise.  Until a key case is lost,  I'm not concerned personally.  I think Trump is probing around and setting fires,  but the fact that the governors select what the legitimate electors are,  and all the key states have D governors,  is the ultimate ace. 
    My opinion is that if a key case is lost is when it will be too late.  My worry with the probing is that one of those tentacles pops through.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882
    Anything's possible, but not time to worry
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    Never thought we'd have to pass a ton of new laws protecting election results.

    A few sh!theads shouldn't be able to overturn millions of votes, but here we are.
    That hasn't happened.  At this point,  it's noise.  The certifications have started. 

    I know, but it is showing the cracks in the armor.
    What you may be thinking are cracks are what I see as the noise.  Until a key case is lost,  I'm not concerned personally.  I think Trump is probing around and setting fires,  but the fact that the governors select what the legitimate electors are,  and all the key states have D governors,  is the ultimate ace. 
    My opinion is that if a key case is lost is when it will be too late.  My worry with the probing is that one of those tentacles pops through.
    The election law and rules of law all strongly work in our favor. Relief in a case is proportional to the injury.  In other words you can't prove a hundred cases of fraud and the relief is an entire county,  city, state having ballots tossed.  And that type of relief is what Trump needs. 
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    We very well may be on the way
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    Never thought we'd have to pass a ton of new laws protecting election results.

    A few sh!theads shouldn't be able to overturn millions of votes, but here we are.
    That hasn't happened.  At this point,  it's noise.  The certifications have started. 

    I know, but it is showing the cracks in the armor.
    What you may be thinking are cracks are what I see as the noise.  Until a key case is lost,  I'm not concerned personally.  I think Trump is probing around and setting fires,  but the fact that the governors select what the legitimate electors are,  and all the key states have D governors,  is the ultimate ace. 
    Ideally we would not rely on the key governors being part of the appropriate party.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

    We are already there.  Check out this sobering visualization: 
    https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
    The United States holds more people in jails and prisons than any other country by far, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of population.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    We very well may be on the way
    CM189191 said:
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

    We are already there.  Check out this sobering visualization: 
    https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
    The United States holds more people in jails and prisons than any other country by far, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of population.

    Good point about more people in jails and prisons in the U.S.  Cheap labor marked by racial profiling. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,390
    No way
    CM189191 said:
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

    We are already there.  Check out this sobering visualization: 
    https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
    The United States holds more people in jails and prisons than any other country by far, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of population.
    With all the new laws being passed the US is on the fast track of changing that.  
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    We very well may be on the way
    tempo_n_groove said:
    CM189191 said:
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

    We are already there.  Check out this sobering visualization: 
    https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
    The United States holds more people in jails and prisons than any other country by far, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of population.
    With all the new laws being passed the US is on the fast track of changing that.  

    How so?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,905
    Being Canadian, I always thought one of the most admirable things about the US was how the constitution was developed to separate powers.  It was a direct reflection the anti-monarchy (anti-authoritarian) sentiment that established the country.  I feel like the last 4 years have been a big test, because the damn thing was designed to prevent a dictator or single person from having all the power.

    In some ways I think it did it's job, but in other way's it's moderately scary how the current administration is trying to circumvent it.  At no point in my life have I thought the US has been closer to going against it's own ideals.

    The crazy part is the slightly less than half the population that supports trump.  They're very big on freedoms, 1st and 2nd amendment   rights, etc.... but the fundamental theme of the constitution is division of power.   Yet they don't seem to take issue if that happens, or if someone tries to by pass that staple of the US constitution.

    That's my thoughts though.  An outsider looking in.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,390
    No way
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    CM189191 said:
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

    We are already there.  Check out this sobering visualization: 
    https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
    The United States holds more people in jails and prisons than any other country by far, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of population.
    With all the new laws being passed the US is on the fast track of changing that.  

    How so?
    Bail reform is one, making drugs legal or not prosecutable is another.

    Making Public urination is a ticket now and not an arresting act in NYC.

    There are many laws that are focusing on NOT arresting people now.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    We very well may be on the way
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    CM189191 said:
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

    We are already there.  Check out this sobering visualization: 
    https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
    The United States holds more people in jails and prisons than any other country by far, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of population.
    With all the new laws being passed the US is on the fast track of changing that.  

    How so?
    Bail reform is one, making drugs legal or not prosecutable is another.

    Making Public urination is a ticket now and not an arresting act in NYC.

    There are many laws that are focusing on NOT arresting people now.

    I didn't know that.  Especially about being arrested for peeing in public in NYC!

    Things sure have change in most places regarding marijuana laws.  In the 60's, some people spent years in prison for possession- sometimes even for small quantities of weed.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    We very well may be on the way
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    CM189191 said:
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

    We are already there.  Check out this sobering visualization: 
    https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
    The United States holds more people in jails and prisons than any other country by far, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of population.
    With all the new laws being passed the US is on the fast track of changing that.  

    How so?
    Bail reform is one, making drugs legal or not prosecutable is another.

    Making Public urination is a ticket now and not an arresting act in NYC.

    There are many laws that are focusing on NOT arresting people now.

    I think there are definitely more people understanding the problems with US mass incarceration that are trying to reform the criminal justice system...good candidates are running for District Attorney seats (and even a few win). I do see slow change coming in that direction. (This all assumes we won't go to the authoritarianism I meant when I started the thread). There are hurdles and one is the free/cheap prison labor.* Another is that it's really, really popular to run for office as a "tough on crime" candidate and I don't think most of the population understands just how many incarcerated people are non-violent and barely even criminals.

    *If I were president, the first thing I'd do is whatever I could to make private prisons illegal. The second would be whatever I could to end the War on Drugs
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,390
    No way
    OnWis97 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    CM189191 said:
    au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
    the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

    We are already there.  Check out this sobering visualization: 
    https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
    The United States holds more people in jails and prisons than any other country by far, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of population.
    With all the new laws being passed the US is on the fast track of changing that.  

    How so?
    Bail reform is one, making drugs legal or not prosecutable is another.

    Making Public urination is a ticket now and not an arresting act in NYC.

    There are many laws that are focusing on NOT arresting people now.

    I think there are definitely more people understanding the problems with US mass incarceration that are trying to reform the criminal justice system...good candidates are running for District Attorney seats (and even a few win). I do see slow change coming in that direction. (This all assumes we won't go to the authoritarianism I meant when I started the thread). There are hurdles and one is the free/cheap prison labor.* Another is that it's really, really popular to run for office as a "tough on crime" candidate and I don't think most of the population understands just how many incarcerated people are non-violent and barely even criminals.

    *If I were president, the first thing I'd do is whatever I could to make private prisons illegal. The second would be whatever I could to end the War on Drugs
    Private prisons do 2 things.
    1-save the state/feds money on incarceration fees.
    2-show us how ridiculous our laws are.

    I built prisons, private, state and federal for 15 years so I know all about them.

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