RIP Kobe Bryant
Comments
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Hallelujah. Thanks Sea.mrussel1 said:
I was going to re-quote CM's post that started this whole discussion. And it wasn't about his clearly flawed life, mistakes, miscarriages of justice. It was, what I interpreted as a callous celebration of his death. I can't quote because Sea has removed it, including all of the quotes of it for it being inappropriate. So.. what does that tell you...HughFreakingDillon said:
if you go by the theory that all payouts in civil suits are an admission of guilt, would it stand to reason that acceptance of said payments instead of actual justice is always an admission of extortion?CM189191 said:
like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?HughFreakingDillon said:
that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt
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This seems pretty PC on Wapo's part. I guess if she violated a company policy, then she should have known, but man...
A Washington Post reporter has been suspended after she tweeted an old article about Kobe Bryant being accused of rape, shortly after the news of the NBA legend's death broke.
Felicia Sonmez, a national political reporter for The Washington Post, on Sunday afternoon tweeted a 2016 Daily Beast article with the headline, "Kobe Bryant’s Disturbing Rape Case: The DNA Evidence, the Accuser’s Story, and the Half-Confession."
Sonmez later deleted the tweet and others, defending her decision to share the article. "Any public figure is worth remembering in their totality, even if that public figure beloved and that totality upsetting," Sonmez wrote.
One of the Washington Post's managing editors, Tracy Grant, said in a statement released to NBC News on Monday that Sonmez "was placed on administrative leave while The Post reviews whether tweets about the death of Kobe Bryant violated The Post newsroom’s social media policy."
"The tweets displayed poor judgment that undermined the work of her colleagues," Grant said.
The Post did not specify which tweets in particular prompted the suspension or which social media policy she violated.
Many people expressed equal outrage that the Post had decided to put Sonmez on leave following her tweets.
The Washington Post "should reinstate Felicia Sonmez. An overreaction to the keyboard warriors. While you can debate the timing of the tweets, it's a relevant detail to the life of Kobe Bryant. A newspaper silencing a journalist sets a terrible example," one person wrote.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/washington-post-suspends-reporter-after-kobe-bryant-rape-allegation-tweet-n1124031
Post edited by tbergs onIt's a hopeless situation...0 -
The Juggler said:
Ha.CM189191 said:
More victim blaming....Why does it matter that someone else's semen and pubic hair was found?The Juggler said:
For the second time: Why was another man's semen and pubic hair found in her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
I'd love for rape to be cancelled from our culture! Yeah! However, one can hope for that while also not believing every single allegation that comes out....especially ones that don't even make it to trial.
Answer or not. Up to you.
It was introduced was bc it made it difficult to test for evidence. And it was used to slander the victim.
So the victim had sex with someone else the day before she was raped by Kobe. How is that relevant? Does that somehow make Kobe innocent?
Talking about evidence is considered "victim blaming" to today's Cancel Culture Warriors. This is a huge piece of evidence and likely part of the reason the prosecution was afraid to go to trial.
How on earth can a defendant defend him or herself when every piece of evidence would be considered "victim blaming?"
She had "vaginal trauma" because, she said, of the forced sex. But she didn't say that she had sex afterwards. They only discovered that because the DNA test found that evidence on her underwear. So the defense argued that having sex multiple times in a short time frame would result in this kind of "trauma." Reasonable enough, right? Her excuse for having another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she was bringing to investigators was that she just grabbed dirty underwear from her laundry basket by mistake.
As much as you'd like it to be, this was most definitely not an open and shut case.
This is not exculpatory evidence. Again....she can't be raped bc she had sex w/someone else the day before?
What do you need? Video evidence like Robert Kraft? bc that asshole is probably going to get off too.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.
She was coerced into settlement. There was huge power disparity here.
I guess rape is ok as long as your good at sportsball and have lots of money to buy your freedom.
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HughFreakingDillon said:
if you go by the theory that all payouts in civil suits are an admission of guilt, would it stand to reason that acceptance of said payments instead of actual justice is always an admission of extortion?CM189191 said:
like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?HughFreakingDillon said:
that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt
no, this is dumb
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It was argued that she had sex after she claimed to be raped. Seems as if she would've mentioned that.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Ha.CM189191 said:
More victim blaming....Why does it matter that someone else's semen and pubic hair was found?The Juggler said:
For the second time: Why was another man's semen and pubic hair found in her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
I'd love for rape to be cancelled from our culture! Yeah! However, one can hope for that while also not believing every single allegation that comes out....especially ones that don't even make it to trial.
Answer or not. Up to you.
It was introduced was bc it made it difficult to test for evidence. And it was used to slander the victim.
So the victim had sex with someone else the day before she was raped by Kobe. How is that relevant? Does that somehow make Kobe innocent?
Talking about evidence is considered "victim blaming" to today's Cancel Culture Warriors. This is a huge piece of evidence and likely part of the reason the prosecution was afraid to go to trial.
How on earth can a defendant defend him or herself when every piece of evidence would be considered "victim blaming?"
She had "vaginal trauma" because, she said, of the forced sex. But she didn't say that she had sex afterwards. They only discovered that because the DNA test found that evidence on her underwear. So the defense argued that having sex multiple times in a short time frame would result in this kind of "trauma." Reasonable enough, right? Her excuse for having another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she was bringing to investigators was that she just grabbed dirty underwear from her laundry basket by mistake.
As much as you'd like it to be, this was most definitely not an open and shut case.
This is not exculpatory evidence. Again....she can't be raped bc she had sex w/someone else the day before?
What do you need? Video evidence like Robert Kraft? bc that asshole is probably going to get off too.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.
She was coerced into settlement. There was huge power disparity here.
I guess rape is ok as long as your good at sportsball and have lots of money to buy your freedom.
No evidence, again- as much as you'd like there to be, of her being coerced into settlement.
Your last sentence is laughably desperate.
Alright thanks for playing.www.myspace.com0 -
of course it is. both statements are equally stupid.CM189191 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
if you go by the theory that all payouts in civil suits are an admission of guilt, would it stand to reason that acceptance of said payments instead of actual justice is always an admission of extortion?CM189191 said:
like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?HughFreakingDillon said:
that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt
no, this is dumbBy The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
It may not be exculpatory, but it casts doubt, which is important in a criminal trial. I honestly don't know this case at all, so what was damning evidence against Bryant? If you say it's the vaginal damage, then the DNA and the fact that she had sex multiple times in a day could become exculpatory pretty quickly.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Ha.CM189191 said:
More victim blaming....Why does it matter that someone else's semen and pubic hair was found?The Juggler said:
For the second time: Why was another man's semen and pubic hair found in her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
I'd love for rape to be cancelled from our culture! Yeah! However, one can hope for that while also not believing every single allegation that comes out....especially ones that don't even make it to trial.
Answer or not. Up to you.
It was introduced was bc it made it difficult to test for evidence. And it was used to slander the victim.
So the victim had sex with someone else the day before she was raped by Kobe. How is that relevant? Does that somehow make Kobe innocent?
Talking about evidence is considered "victim blaming" to today's Cancel Culture Warriors. This is a huge piece of evidence and likely part of the reason the prosecution was afraid to go to trial.
How on earth can a defendant defend him or herself when every piece of evidence would be considered "victim blaming?"
She had "vaginal trauma" because, she said, of the forced sex. But she didn't say that she had sex afterwards. They only discovered that because the DNA test found that evidence on her underwear. So the defense argued that having sex multiple times in a short time frame would result in this kind of "trauma." Reasonable enough, right? Her excuse for having another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she was bringing to investigators was that she just grabbed dirty underwear from her laundry basket by mistake.
As much as you'd like it to be, this was most definitely not an open and shut case.
This is not exculpatory evidence. Again....she can't be raped bc she had sex w/someone else the day before?
What do you need? Video evidence like Robert Kraft? bc that asshole is probably going to get off too.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.
She was coerced into settlement. There was huge power disparity here.
I guess rape is ok as long as your good at sportsball and have lots of money to buy your freedom.0 -
i expected better from you hfdHughFreakingDillon said:
of course it is. both statements are equally stupid.CM189191 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
if you go by the theory that all payouts in civil suits are an admission of guilt, would it stand to reason that acceptance of said payments instead of actual justice is always an admission of extortion?CM189191 said:
like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?HughFreakingDillon said:
that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt
no, this is dumb0 -
all civil payouts equate to guilt to you?CM189191 said:
i expected better from you hfdHughFreakingDillon said:
of course it is. both statements are equally stupid.CM189191 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
if you go by the theory that all payouts in civil suits are an admission of guilt, would it stand to reason that acceptance of said payments instead of actual justice is always an admission of extortion?CM189191 said:
like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?HughFreakingDillon said:
that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt
no, this is dumbBy The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
mrussel1 said:
It may not be exculpatory, but it casts doubt, which is important in a criminal trial. I honestly don't know this case at all, so what was damning evidence against Bryant? If you say it's the vaginal damage, then the DNA and the fact that she had sex multiple times in a day could become exculpatory pretty quickly.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Ha.CM189191 said:
More victim blaming....Why does it matter that someone else's semen and pubic hair was found?The Juggler said:
For the second time: Why was another man's semen and pubic hair found in her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
I'd love for rape to be cancelled from our culture! Yeah! However, one can hope for that while also not believing every single allegation that comes out....especially ones that don't even make it to trial.
Answer or not. Up to you.
It was introduced was bc it made it difficult to test for evidence. And it was used to slander the victim.
So the victim had sex with someone else the day before she was raped by Kobe. How is that relevant? Does that somehow make Kobe innocent?
Talking about evidence is considered "victim blaming" to today's Cancel Culture Warriors. This is a huge piece of evidence and likely part of the reason the prosecution was afraid to go to trial.
How on earth can a defendant defend him or herself when every piece of evidence would be considered "victim blaming?"
She had "vaginal trauma" because, she said, of the forced sex. But she didn't say that she had sex afterwards. They only discovered that because the DNA test found that evidence on her underwear. So the defense argued that having sex multiple times in a short time frame would result in this kind of "trauma." Reasonable enough, right? Her excuse for having another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she was bringing to investigators was that she just grabbed dirty underwear from her laundry basket by mistake.
As much as you'd like it to be, this was most definitely not an open and shut case.
This is not exculpatory evidence. Again....she can't be raped bc she had sex w/someone else the day before?
What do you need? Video evidence like Robert Kraft? bc that asshole is probably going to get off too.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.
She was coerced into settlement. There was huge power disparity here.
I guess rape is ok as long as your good at sportsball and have lots of money to buy your freedom.
There's a pretty wide chasm between doubt and reasonable doubt
0 -
The bar is beyond a reasonable doubt. So is the vaginal damage the evidence?CM189191 said:mrussel1 said:
It may not be exculpatory, but it casts doubt, which is important in a criminal trial. I honestly don't know this case at all, so what was damning evidence against Bryant? If you say it's the vaginal damage, then the DNA and the fact that she had sex multiple times in a day could become exculpatory pretty quickly.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Ha.CM189191 said:
More victim blaming....Why does it matter that someone else's semen and pubic hair was found?The Juggler said:
For the second time: Why was another man's semen and pubic hair found in her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Why don't you show your work? I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.CM189191 said:The Juggler said:
We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...HughFreakingDillon said:
k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion.The Juggler said:
No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...mcgruff10 said:
+1HughFreakingDillon said:
yes.oftenreading said:Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened?
however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it.
So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her.
Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place. Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.
Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual.
When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know."Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.
real nice guy
She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear.
This is victim blaming at it's finest. Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.
Show your work - how did she lie? What did she lie about?
The victim was painted as a liar. Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.
Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways.
Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing.
wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!
what's your angle here? women who sleep with other men can't be raped?
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time?
Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks.
Cancel culture? What does even mean? Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?
Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture
...not sure what you are suggesting here...
I'd love for rape to be cancelled from our culture! Yeah! However, one can hope for that while also not believing every single allegation that comes out....especially ones that don't even make it to trial.
Answer or not. Up to you.
It was introduced was bc it made it difficult to test for evidence. And it was used to slander the victim.
So the victim had sex with someone else the day before she was raped by Kobe. How is that relevant? Does that somehow make Kobe innocent?
Talking about evidence is considered "victim blaming" to today's Cancel Culture Warriors. This is a huge piece of evidence and likely part of the reason the prosecution was afraid to go to trial.
How on earth can a defendant defend him or herself when every piece of evidence would be considered "victim blaming?"
She had "vaginal trauma" because, she said, of the forced sex. But she didn't say that she had sex afterwards. They only discovered that because the DNA test found that evidence on her underwear. So the defense argued that having sex multiple times in a short time frame would result in this kind of "trauma." Reasonable enough, right? Her excuse for having another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she was bringing to investigators was that she just grabbed dirty underwear from her laundry basket by mistake.
As much as you'd like it to be, this was most definitely not an open and shut case.
This is not exculpatory evidence. Again....she can't be raped bc she had sex w/someone else the day before?
What do you need? Video evidence like Robert Kraft? bc that asshole is probably going to get off too.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.
She was coerced into settlement. There was huge power disparity here.
I guess rape is ok as long as your good at sportsball and have lots of money to buy your freedom.
There's a pretty wide chasm between doubt and reasonable doubt0 -
CM189191 said:
This is not exculpatory evidence. Again....she can't be raped bc she had sex w/someone else the day before?
What do you need? Video evidence like Robert Kraft? bc that asshole is probably going to get off too.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.
She was coerced into settlement. There was huge power disparity here.
I guess rape is ok as long as your good at sportsball and have lots of money to buy your freedom.Kraft, a 78 year old with no priors, is facing two misdemeanor charges for solicitation. Pretend he isn't the owner of the Patriots for the sake of this conversation, and tell me based on the facts I just stated what a just punishment would be.
& please don't bring up sex trafficking, the Palm Beach prosecutor has already said there's no evidence of that in this case.
0 -
Like I said you can start a thread and title it appropriately, have a goodnightCM189191 said:josevolution said:
This thread is to mourn the man & his daughter tragically killed in an accident, if you wanna bash it’s your choice so please start your own thread to bash him ..CM189191 said:mrussel1 said:
That's cool that you're also happy that three young girls lost their father, including am infant.CM189191 said:mrussel1 said:
Evidently you don't believe in contrition or redemption. Good for you.CM189191 said:
And what point of view is that?mrussel1 said:
Wait at least a day before you dance on the grave. Everyone knows your pov.CM189191 said:mcgruff10 said:My thoughts, he made a huge mistake that people in power/ money feel entitled to with no consequences. Probably the first time in his life that he couldn't cover it up as he was a pro from HS. From there, he did reform. Fixed his family, publicly apologized and did do a lot of charity work. Definitely one of the best ever players but questionable morals for half his life. I feel terrible for his wife and surviving children.And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the p****. You can do anything.
Rapists = bad ?
That the world is a better place with one less rapist in it?
That point of view?
I believe in redemption
Remind me again how many days Kobe spent in jail?
If he was in jail instead of on a helicopter he might still be alive
I feel for the daughter, I really do. She was an innocent victim.
So was the massage therapist Kobe raped. She was an innocent victim and someone's daughter as well.
If I were a Christian, perhaps I might suggest this was God's way of taking an eye for an eye, but that would be uncouth.
How many women do you think Kobe raped before he caught? Do you really think that was the only time?
jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
yeah...Palm Beach has a real good track record with rich people and looking the other way when it comes to sex traffickingMerkin Baller said:CM189191 said:
This is not exculpatory evidence. Again....she can't be raped bc she had sex w/someone else the day before?
What do you need? Video evidence like Robert Kraft? bc that asshole is probably going to get off too.
A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.
She was coerced into settlement. There was huge power disparity here.
I guess rape is ok as long as your good at sportsball and have lots of money to buy your freedom.Kraft, a 78 year old with no priors, is facing two misdemeanor charges for solicitation. Pretend he isn't the owner of the Patriots for the sake of this conversation, and tell me based on the facts I just stated what a just punishment would be.
& please don't bring up sex trafficking, the Palm Beach prosecutor has already said there's no evidence of that in this case.
0 -
the thread is titled RIP Kobe Bryantjosevolution said:
Like I said you can start a thread and title it appropriately, have a goodnightCM189191 said:josevolution said:
This thread is to mourn the man & his daughter tragically killed in an accident, if you wanna bash it’s your choice so please start your own thread to bash him ..CM189191 said:mrussel1 said:
That's cool that you're also happy that three young girls lost their father, including am infant.CM189191 said:mrussel1 said:
Evidently you don't believe in contrition or redemption. Good for you.CM189191 said:
And what point of view is that?mrussel1 said:
Wait at least a day before you dance on the grave. Everyone knows your pov.CM189191 said:mcgruff10 said:My thoughts, he made a huge mistake that people in power/ money feel entitled to with no consequences. Probably the first time in his life that he couldn't cover it up as he was a pro from HS. From there, he did reform. Fixed his family, publicly apologized and did do a lot of charity work. Definitely one of the best ever players but questionable morals for half his life. I feel terrible for his wife and surviving children.And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the p****. You can do anything.
Rapists = bad ?
That the world is a better place with one less rapist in it?
That point of view?
I believe in redemption
Remind me again how many days Kobe spent in jail?
If he was in jail instead of on a helicopter he might still be alive
I feel for the daughter, I really do. She was an innocent victim.
So was the massage therapist Kobe raped. She was an innocent victim and someone's daughter as well.
If I were a Christian, perhaps I might suggest this was God's way of taking an eye for an eye, but that would be uncouth.
How many women do you think Kobe raped before he caught? Do you really think that was the only time?
why should a rapist rest in peace?
0 -
Look, I think the point of this thread was to mourn, celebrate, react to the life of a polarizing athlete.
I lived in Boston when Aaron Hernandez died. What he did as a person was horrible and inexcusable. But, his life as an ATHLETE was still viewed in a positive light. Same thing here. Did he make some mistakes, of course...we all do.
Go have a fucking beer and relax.0 -
What? This isn't like that! Proven murder is different than accused rape! lol, you guys...lmckenney24 said:Look, I think the point of this thread was to mourn, celebrate, react to the life of a polarizing athlete.
I lived in Boston when Aaron Hernandez died. What he did as a person was horrible and inexcusable. But, his life as an ATHLETE was still viewed in a positive light. Same thing here. Did he make some mistakes, of course...we all do.
Go have a fucking beer and relax.
2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com0 -
Agreed... don't compare Kobe and Hernandez.. That shit ain't close.Ledbetterman10 said:
What? This isn't like that! Proven murder is different than accused rape! lol, you guys...lmckenney24 said:Look, I think the point of this thread was to mourn, celebrate, react to the life of a polarizing athlete.
I lived in Boston when Aaron Hernandez died. What he did as a person was horrible and inexcusable. But, his life as an ATHLETE was still viewed in a positive light. Same thing here. Did he make some mistakes, of course...we all do.
Go have a fucking beer and relax.0 -
you've made your point now numerous times. move on already.CM189191 said:
the thread is titled RIP Kobe Bryantjosevolution said:
Like I said you can start a thread and title it appropriately, have a goodnightCM189191 said:josevolution said:
This thread is to mourn the man & his daughter tragically killed in an accident, if you wanna bash it’s your choice so please start your own thread to bash him ..CM189191 said:mrussel1 said:
That's cool that you're also happy that three young girls lost their father, including am infant.CM189191 said:mrussel1 said:
Evidently you don't believe in contrition or redemption. Good for you.CM189191 said:
And what point of view is that?mrussel1 said:
Wait at least a day before you dance on the grave. Everyone knows your pov.CM189191 said:mcgruff10 said:My thoughts, he made a huge mistake that people in power/ money feel entitled to with no consequences. Probably the first time in his life that he couldn't cover it up as he was a pro from HS. From there, he did reform. Fixed his family, publicly apologized and did do a lot of charity work. Definitely one of the best ever players but questionable morals for half his life. I feel terrible for his wife and surviving children.And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the p****. You can do anything.
Rapists = bad ?
That the world is a better place with one less rapist in it?
That point of view?
I believe in redemption
Remind me again how many days Kobe spent in jail?
If he was in jail instead of on a helicopter he might still be alive
I feel for the daughter, I really do. She was an innocent victim.
So was the massage therapist Kobe raped. She was an innocent victim and someone's daughter as well.
If I were a Christian, perhaps I might suggest this was God's way of taking an eye for an eye, but that would be uncouth.
How many women do you think Kobe raped before he caught? Do you really think that was the only time?
why should a rapist rest in peace?0 -
Poorly written on my part, so the point wasnt clear. been a long day.Ledbetterman10 said:
What? This isn't like that! Proven murder is different than accused rape!lmckenney24 said:Look, I think the point of this thread was to mourn, celebrate, react to the life of a polarizing athlete.
I lived in Boston when Aaron Hernandez died. What he did as a person was horrible and inexcusable. But, his life as an ATHLETE was still viewed in a positive light. Same thing here. Did he make some mistakes, of course...we all do.
Go have a fucking beer and relax.
0
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