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RIP Kobe Bryant

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  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,186
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 39,666
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,954
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 
    And somewhere in the middle is the truth.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,179
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 
    ew, gross. I never knew (or don't recall) the details of the incident. but that just sounds pervy. 

  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 13,474
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    My thoughts, he made a huge mistake that people in power/ money feel entitled to with no consequences. Probably the first time in his life that he couldn't cover it up as he was a pro from HS. From there, he did reform. Fixed his family, publicly apologized and did do a lot of charity work. Definitely one of the best ever players but questionable morals for half his life. I feel terrible for his wife and surviving children. 
    And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the p****. You can do anything.
    Wait at least a day before you dance on the grave.  Everyone knows your pov.
    And what point of view is that?

    Rapists = bad ?

    That the world is a better place with one less rapist in it? 

    That point of view?
    Evidently you don't believe in contrition or redemption.  Good for you.  

    I believe in redemption

    Remind me again how many days Kobe spent in jail?
    That's cool that you're also happy that three young girls lost their father,  including am infant.  

    If he was in jail instead of on a helicopter he might still be alive
    This thread is to mourn the man & his daughter tragically killed in an accident, if you wanna bash it’s your choice so please start your own thread to bash him ..


    I feel for the daughter, I really do.  She was an innocent victim.

    So was the massage therapist Kobe raped.  She was an innocent victim and someone's daughter as well. 

    If I were a Christian, perhaps I might suggest this was God's way of taking an eye for an eye, but that would be uncouth.

    How many women do you think Kobe raped before he caught?  Do you really think that was the only time?

    Was he convicted of any crime?  No. Does that mean he is innocent?  No.  Does it mean he is guilty?  No.   Were you there for all these incidences?  No.  So all you have is stuff you’ve read on the internet.  Cool your jets a little.  
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,186
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,931
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    innocent rich people pay off people to make things go away all the time because it's easier than having a messy trial. not saying he's innocent, but this idea that there aren't people out there who lied their way to a settlement is just naive at best. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mcgruff10 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Renfield said:
    Talk about being desperate for attention on a message board. And I don't even disagree with you on Kobe. But come on. You're just trolling. 
    He/she is not going to stop until it becomes a nasty argument, name calling and thread shutdown. Why can’t he/she begin their own thread? 

    interesting point....how many women are in this thread defending Kobe?  Any?  

    I was really disappointed to see Alicia Keys pay tribute last night.  I expected more from her.  
    Literally just walked out of the faculty room and six women were all saying how upset they were over this. 

    What were they upset about?

    Legit question, were they upset about his passing, or the deification of a guy who had credible rape charges brought against him? (or something else?)


  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 39,666
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,954
    mcgruff10 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Renfield said:
    Talk about being desperate for attention on a message board. And I don't even disagree with you on Kobe. But come on. You're just trolling. 
    He/she is not going to stop until it becomes a nasty argument, name calling and thread shutdown. Why can’t he/she begin their own thread? 

    interesting point....how many women are in this thread defending Kobe?  Any?  

    I was really disappointed to see Alicia Keys pay tribute last night.  I expected more from her.  
    Literally just walked out of the faculty room and six women were all saying how upset they were over this. 

    What were they upset about?

    Legit question, were they upset about his passing, or the deification of a guy who had credible rape charges brought against him? (or something else?)

    They were upset about his and his daughter's passing.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Renfield said:
    Talk about being desperate for attention on a message board. And I don't even disagree with you on Kobe. But come on. You're just trolling. 
    He/she is not going to stop until it becomes a nasty argument, name calling and thread shutdown. Why can’t he/she begin their own thread? 

    interesting point....how many women are in this thread defending Kobe?  Any?  

    I was really disappointed to see Alicia Keys pay tribute last night.  I expected more from her.  
    Literally just walked out of the faculty room and six women were all saying how upset they were over this. 

    What were they upset about?

    Legit question, were they upset about his passing, or the deification of a guy who had credible rape charges brought against him? (or something else?)

    They were upset about his and his daughter's passing.  


    Gotcha.



  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,186
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • cp3iversoncp3iverson Posts: 7,444
    There’s a petition to change the NBA logo to Kobe’s silhouette. 

    Normally these things are a little too reactionary but what he did for the game globally was immeasurable. 
  • DL136722DL136722 Not sure...Posts: 570
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    I think a lot of this has been brewing for a while. Since the #metoo movement, lots of 20-30 yr old situations are being made public, rightfully so but Kobe's, not so much. While others are finally getting in trouble, why does he go untouched for over 10 yrs? Why does he get a free pass from the LGBTQ community when he was yelling gay obscenities in his playing days at referees but Kevin Hart loses out on hosting the Oscars because of 10 yr old tweets? Personally, I've never understood how Kobe is given a pass on these situations while others who have apologized are not given the same pass. Again, sucks that this happened, sucks that lives were lost but I understand why people are saying and bringing up the rape stuff, sorry but you can't tell the story about Kobe and not bring it up as much as fans try to pretend it never happened. What do you think his victim is thinking as all these news outlets don't even make one mention of it? Not mentioning it makes it seem like it wasn't a big deal which is why people are upset and talking about it. 
    Tweeter Center - Aug 29, 2000;Tweeter Center - Aug 30, 2000;Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000;Pepsi Arena - Apr 29, 2003;Bryce-Jordan Center - May 03, 2003;Bell Center - Jun 29, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 02, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 03, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 11, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 05, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 06, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 08, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 09, 2003;TD Banknorth Garden - May 24, 2006;TD Banknorth Garden - May 25, 2006;Fleet Center - Sept 28, 2004;Fleet Center - Sept 29, 2004;Pepsi Arena - May 12, 2006 New England Dodge Music Arena - May 13, 2006;Grant Park - Aug 05, 2007;Bonnaroo - Jun 14, 2008;Dodge Music Center - Jun 27, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 28, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 30, 2008 XL Arena - May 15, 2010;TD Garden - May 17, 2010;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sept 03, 2011;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sep 04, 2011 Corel Centre - Sep 16, 2005;Colisee Pepsi Arena - Sep 20, 2005; Wrigley Field - July 19, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 15, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 16, 2013; Fenway Park - August 5, 2016; Fenway Park - August 7, 2016

    Oh Dude!
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 13,474
    I’m not sure why it is the media’s responsibility to bring up something that he was not charged with when he died.   Look at the outpouring of well wishes from thousands of people.  So many people that new him well are distraught.  No one is crying over Epstein.   
  • RenfieldRenfield NYC NYPosts: 722
    edited January 2020
    Victims of the Calabasas helicopter crash: Christina Mauser, Ara Zobayan, Altobelli family - The Washington Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/27/victims-calabasas-helicopter-crash/
    Post edited by Renfield on
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,931
    Renfield said:
    Victims of the Calabasas helicopter crash: Christina Mauser, Ara Zobayan, Altobelli family - The Washington Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/27/victims-calabasas-helicopter-crash/
    fuck I hate hearing about such young people dying in accidents. and kids left behind. that one family who lost both parents and a sister. just unimaginable. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • cp3iversoncp3iverson Posts: 7,444
    Its funny how Kobe’s era of the NBA was first looked at as the young punks.  Remember how guys like MJ  and even Rodman were whining about the lack of respect?

    They ended up being incredibly tough, blue collar guys.  There were no “load management” games for Kobe, Iverson, and KG.   They played when you were allowed to hit people, handcheck, etc.  

    I love the NBA but its definitely a lot softer these days.  I respect the hell out of the guys who entered the league in the mid 90s
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 39,666
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,186
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

    Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

    Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

    ...not sure what you are suggesting here...
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,931
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

    Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

    Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

    ...not sure what you are suggesting here...
    that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 39,666
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

    Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

    Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

    ...not sure what you are suggesting here...
     For the second time: Why was another man's semen and pubic hair found in her underwear that she turned over to investigators?

    I'd love for rape to be cancelled from our culture! Yeah! However, one can hope for that while also not believing every single allegation that comes out....especially ones that don't even make it to trial. 

    Answer or not. Up to you. 

    chinese-happy.jpg
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 12,263
    Renfield said:
    Victims of the Calabasas helicopter crash: Christina Mauser, Ara Zobayan, Altobelli family - The Washington Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/27/victims-calabasas-helicopter-crash/
    I wonder if the coach John Altobelli is any relation to former Oriole's manager Joe Altobelli.
    Right age to be son or nephew, not exactly a common name and to be that ensconced in the sport makes me wonder.

    Such a tragedy. Those poor kids.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,186
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

    Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

    Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

    ...not sure what you are suggesting here...
    that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt. 
    like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?

    bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,931
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

    Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

    Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

    ...not sure what you are suggesting here...
    that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt. 
    like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?

    bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt
    I already addressed this earlier. I guess you missed it. or chose to. whichever. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,186
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

    Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

    Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

    ...not sure what you are suggesting here...
     For the second time: Why was another man's semen and pubic hair found in her underwear that she turned over to investigators?

    I'd love for rape to be cancelled from our culture! Yeah! However, one can hope for that while also not believing every single allegation that comes out....especially ones that don't even make it to trial. 

    Answer or not. Up to you. 

    More victim blaming....Why does it matter that someone else's semen and pubic hair was found?  

    It was introduced was bc it made it difficult to test for evidence.  And it was used to slander the victim.  

    So the victim had sex with someone else the day before she was raped by Kobe.  How is that relevant?  Does that somehow make Kobe innocent?  

    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • There’s a petition to change the NBA logo to Kobe’s silhouette. 

    Normally these things are a little too reactionary but what he did for the game globally was immeasurable. 

    I think the idea of changing the logo to Kobe's silhouette is asinine, but to each his own.



  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,931
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

    Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

    Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

    ...not sure what you are suggesting here...
    that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt. 
    like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?

    bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt
    if you go by the theory that all payouts in civil suits are an admission of guilt, would it stand to reason that acceptance of said payments instead of actual justice is always an admission of extortion?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,179
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

    Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

    Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

    ...not sure what you are suggesting here...
    that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt. 
    like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?

    bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt
    if you go by the theory that all payouts in civil suits are an admission of guilt, would it stand to reason that acceptance of said payments instead of actual justice is always an admission of extortion?
    I was going to re-quote CM's post that started this whole discussion.  And it wasn't about his clearly flawed life, mistakes, miscarriages of justice.  It was, what I interpreted as a callous celebration of his death.  I can't quote because Sea has removed it, including all of the quotes of it for it being inappropriate.  So.. what does that tell you...
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 39,666
    edited January 2020
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 
    yes. 
    +1
    No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...
    k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

    however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 
    We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

    So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

    Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

    Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

    When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

    Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

    real nice guy

    Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

    She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

    This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

    Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

    The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  
    Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
    Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

    Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


    Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 


    wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

    A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

    Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
    victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
    totes the same!

    what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
    any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 
    You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

    Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

    Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

    Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

    ...not sure what you are suggesting here...
     For the second time: Why was another man's semen and pubic hair found in her underwear that she turned over to investigators?

    I'd love for rape to be cancelled from our culture! Yeah! However, one can hope for that while also not believing every single allegation that comes out....especially ones that don't even make it to trial. 

    Answer or not. Up to you. 

    More victim blaming....Why does it matter that someone else's semen and pubic hair was found?  

    It was introduced was bc it made it difficult to test for evidence.  And it was used to slander the victim.  

    So the victim had sex with someone else the day before she was raped by Kobe.  How is that relevant?  Does that somehow make Kobe innocent?  

    Ha.

    Talking about evidence is considered "victim blaming" to today's Cancel Culture Warriors. This is a huge piece of evidence and likely part of the reason the prosecution was afraid to go to trial. 

    How on earth can a defendant defend him or herself when every piece of evidence would be considered "victim blaming?"

    She had "vaginal trauma" because, she said, of the forced sex. But she didn't say that she had sex afterwards. They only discovered that because the DNA test found that evidence on her underwear. So the defense argued that having sex multiple times in a short time frame would result in this kind of  "trauma." Reasonable enough, right? Her excuse for having another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she was bringing to investigators was that she just grabbed dirty underwear from her laundry basket by mistake. 

    As much as you'd like it to be, this was most definitely not an open and shut case. 
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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