RIP Kobe Bryant

mcgruff10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mcgruff10 said:

CM189191 said:

Renfield said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Talk about being desperate for attention on a message board. And I don't even disagree with you on Kobe. But come on. You're just trolling. 

He/she is not going to stop until it becomes a nasty argument, name calling and thread shutdown. Why can’t he/she begin their own thread? 

interesting point....how many women are in this thread defending Kobe?  Any?  

I was really disappointed to see Alicia Keys pay tribute last night.  I expected more from her.  

Literally just walked out of the faculty room and six women were all saying how upset they were over this. 

What were they upset about?

Legit question, were they upset about his passing, or the deification of a guy who had credible rape charges brought against him? (or something else?)

They were upset about his and his daughter's passing.  

Gotcha.

Renfield said:

Victims of the Calabasas helicopter crash: Christina Mauser, Ara Zobayan, Altobelli family - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/27/victims-calabasas-helicopter-crash/

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 

yes. 

+1

No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...

k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 

We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

real nice guy

Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  

Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 

wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!

what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 

yes. 

+1

No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...

k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 

We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

real nice guy

Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  

Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 

wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!

what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 

You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

...not sure what you are suggesting here...

Renfield said:

Victims of the Calabasas helicopter crash: Christina Mauser, Ara Zobayan, Altobelli family - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/27/victims-calabasas-helicopter-crash/

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 

yes. 

+1

No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...

k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 

We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

real nice guy

Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  

Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 

wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!

what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 

You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

...not sure what you are suggesting here...

that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt. 

like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?

bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt

cp3iverson said:

There’s a petition to change the NBA logo to Kobe’s silhouette. 

Normally these things are a little too reactionary but what he did for the game globally was immeasurable. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

CM189191 said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Redemption requires an acknowledgement and admission of guilt and honest efforts to make amends to the person harmed. Do people think that adequately happened? 

yes. 

+1

No it didn't. He never admitted to raping her and wasn't convicted of it either...

k, I somewhat read often's question incorrectly. No, he didn't make amends to the person harmed. But he moved forward making amends to the broader community of women, in my opinion. 

however, I can't personally reconcile "I thought it was consensual". I mean, if she was screaming and saying no the entire time, how is that not obvious? so there's obviously more to it. 

We were not there. According to him she wasn't doing that. She said no to his.....placing some bodily fluids on her face. The fact that she said no to that and didn't say no to anything else is the reason he thought it was consensual. At least, from what I remember...

So my point is he never apologized for raping her because he believes he did not rape her. 

Kobe also lied about having sex with her at all in the first place.  Then he suddenly remember strangling her after being confronted with additional evidence.  

Bryant initially told investigators that he did not have sexual intercourse with his accuser, a 19-year-old woman who worked at the hotel where Bryant was staying. When the officers told Bryant that she had taken an exam that yielded physical evidence, such as semen, Bryant admitted to having sexual intercourse with her, but stated that the sex was consensual. 

When asked about bruises on the accuser's neck, Bryant admitted to "strangling" her during the encounter, stating that he held her "from the back" "around her neck", that strangling during sex was his "thing" and that he had a pattern of strangling a different sex partner (not his wife) during their recurring sexual encounters. When asked how hard he was holding onto her neck, Bryant stated, "My hands are strong. I don't know." 

Bryant's defense lawyer Pamela Mackey asserted that the accuser was taking an anti-psychotic drug for the treatment of schizophrenia at the time of the incident. In addition to the woman's moral character and reputation being challenged by Bryant's defense lawyer, she received death threats and hate mail and her identity was leaked multiple times.

real nice guy

Did I say he was a nice guy? I believe I said earlier that he was an arrogant asshole going back to high school.

She also lied to investigators about numerous things. Another man's semen and pubic hair were found on her underwear. 

This is victim blaming at it's finest.  Liars don't get a 2.5 million out of court settlement.  

Show your work - how did she lie?  What did she lie about?

The victim was painted as a liar.  Her name was leaked, her character and reputation were assassinated.  

Why don't you show your work?  I'm just reiterating a fact of the case. What I said was literally a fact that can easily be verified. Was there or was there not another man's semen and pubic hair on her underwear that she turned over to investigators?
Kobe's defense argued that having sex multiple times in the same day would be consistent with the vaginal trauma or whatever it's called she was experiencing. She also lied to investigators about why she was late for work that morning. So both of them initially lied.

Victim's also go to trial if they believe their story. See, this goes both ways. 


Folks, this an example of someone so entrenched in their Cancel Culture mentality that they lose all objectivity. Go back and read what I said earlier this morning. I've known Kobe before most of the rest of the country knew him because we went to rival schools. I'm literally one of the  original Kobe Haters. I was no fan of Kobe Bryant and because of that, at the time, I wanted to believe he was guilty of this crime. But if you go back and read about the details of the case you can see why it did not make it to trial. I'm trying to give you an objective view of this whole thing. 

wow, a lot of mental gymnastics to defend a rapist here. 

A factor in the woman’s decision to ask prosecutors to drop the case was mistakes by the tiny court in Eagle, Colo., that her attorneys said caused her to lose faith in the judicial system. Her name was mistakenly released to the media three times and a sealed transcript of a closed hearing on DNA evidence was emailed to seven media outlets.

Kobe's lie : I didn't rape that women
victim's lie : I was late to work bc car trouble, not bc I overslept
totes the same!

what's your angle here?  women who sleep with other men can't be raped?  
any thoughts on what she was wearing at the time? 

You said show your work. I did. You essentially have no retort. 

Cancel Culture at it's worst, folks. 

Cancel culture?  What does even mean?  Or are you just throwing around buzz words now?

Yes, I would like toxic masculinity, harassment, rape and abuse to be cancelled from our culture

...not sure what you are suggesting here...

that you are ignoring key aspects of the evidence because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of guilt. 

like the $2.5 million that changed hands to shut up the victim?

bc that seems like a pretty key aspect of guilt

if you go by the theory that all payouts in civil suits are an admission of guilt, would it stand to reason that acceptance of said payments instead of actual justice is always an admission of extortion?