Shut out once again. Ten Club, I would like an explanation

CaptainB · January 2020

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

playerpiano · January 2020

Lerxst1992 said:

NewfieintheUSA said:

ecdanc said:

Kevinman said:

ecdanc said:

Lerxst1992 said:

“ GA (General Admission) and Reserved (Seated) Ticket Options:
There is a 2 ticket limit per show. Eligible members may submit a Ticket Request for both GA and Reserved tickets to any given show, but can only possibly be confirmed for one or the other. It is not possible to be confirmed for both GA and Reserved tickets for the same show. “

Think for a second about the complexity of the two hat theory. Let’s say there are 2,000 GA winners and 1500 of them were BA applicants.

theyd have to go thru the entire data base and scrub out those 1500 winners before doing the second hat draw. Think about how much time and work that adds to the process and how much that adds to the risk of error, by violating this basic rule

“ It is not possible to be confirmed for both GA and Reserved tickets for the same show. “

”NOT POSSIBLE.” That is the absolute evidence.

they did the Balt draw in under three hours and there’s no way they scrubbed the data base and did a second hat draw, all within the time period we know the draw began and ended.

I don't really want to get into an argument (anymore than I already am), but no....that doesn't say what you're claiming it says.

As for the rest, I'm no programmer, but I can't imagine it would be that hard to create a database that does what you describe. That's only conjecture, though.

I do write programs....and this one would be fairly easy. It is not done manually(someone actually removing names from a database after selected). People saying it’s over complicated to have multiple “hats” might not know how simple it really is to program this to run through 2-6 rounds of multiple hats. Probably hit start, and it goes through picking and eliminating and is done in less than 1 minute.

Interesting. Thank you, Kevin. Do we have any mathematicians or statisticians here? I’m curious if/how odds would be affected for GA, reserved, and BA with one-hat vs. two-hats.

I was a Math major in college. It wouldn't make any difference odds wise either way. Look at it this way, if they drew in one big pool, anyone who has BA who gets picked while GA is available gets GA, same as if they drew GA first then reserved. The only difference is they start giving people who picked Reserved seats earlier.

I think they are saying the BA picks are getting the equivalent of double the picks... that there are separate draws for GA and RES and BA is in both. Although there is no evidence of that, and the rules state it is impossible to be picked twice for one show. To do that IMO they would have to remove every GA winner precisely, and be certain not to remove non winners from a hypothetical second RES draw

so they got a master coder to perfectly scrub the data after each category is picked, so they can tell us it is impossible to be picked twice

Just to clarify, I am not saying BA picks ARE getting double the picks; I am saying they WOULD BE if the lottery were conducted the way some are perceiving it is (everyone in one group/hat). That is one of the reasons I do not believe it is being conducted the way some think it is. Additionally, there would be few if any BA denials for 99% shows.

OceansJenny · January 2020

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

pineapplesandwaves. · January 2020

Every name (based on city priority) should have an equal chance of being “drawn”, it’s just a matter of whether or not the seat you selected was still available when and if your name was drawn. BA should not have two shots at tickets. We all have one name in the hat, so to speak.

There is a higher demand for GA tickets, with far less availability, so if you prefer GA but want to be in the building, you should have selected BA. If you preferred reserved, you should select reserved, because GA would be exhausted long before reserved, and GA wouldn’t have mattered to those fans.

Since we all should have had an equal chance of being “drawn”, I selected reserved for both Toronto (1st) and Ottawa (2nd), because that was my preference. Fortunately, I won both. If I put BA and was drawn early, I would have received GA over someone who wanted GA.

benjs · January 2020

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

For what it's worth, if we're down to three options - there's manipulation of the entries, there's a glitch in the system, there's a handful of people who didn't follow the steps properly, I know what I'm speculating based on six years in IT.

OceansJenny · January 2020

benjs said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

For what it's worth, if we're down to three options - there's manipulation of the entries, there's a glitch in the system, there's a handful of people who didn't follow the steps properly, I know what I'm speculating based on six years in IT.

Bingo.

RK50065 · January 2020

Kevinman said:

pjl44 said:

Kevinman said:

The future solution: BA should be removed to clear up confusion.

2 options:

GA
Res

Enter for 1 or both(priority 1 and 2)

1st draw: Everyone with Priority 1 GA
2nd draw: Everyone with Priority 1 Res
3rd draw if GA still has room and all Priority 1 GA got tix: Anyone who has priority 2 GA that did not get 1st priority tix.
4th draw if Res still has seats open and all Priority 1 Res got seats: Everyone with priority 2 Res that didn’t get 1st priority tix.

i was under impression this was how this drawing worked with BA=Ga 1st priority, Res 2nd Priority.

Just how I thought it worked, not stating this is how it actually works. Just my interpretation of the rules.

No thanks. I far prefer Best Available to the old way.

How’s BA work....haven’t seen a definite answer from 10C?

And you never will.

myoung321 · January 2020

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

One thing missed?

Reserves seats location are still based on club seniority - So if choice is BA and no GA is available they go into pool of reserves, which is then picked in order? correct?

Seems the people that prefer reserves are the ones getting the short stick..

on a side note..(pun). I'd like to see 2 Reserve categories. Reserved Floor and Reserved Ring... To me I'd rather have Reserved sides than Res floor any day.. Rather be back of GA than floor Reserves behind GA..

RatherStarved · January 2020

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

The explanation by benjs makes sense and is probably how most people understood the draw would work. I don’t think it could possibly be what actually took place though unless all the people who claim they lost on a higher priority than someone who won are lying or mistaken. My sense is there are too many people in that situation to believe they’re all dishonest or incompetent. There had to be a glitch.

And the glitch probably affected the odds that were displayed.

JimmyV · January 2020

They gave us best available - an opportunity to not limit ourselves to either GA or reserved - and people still chose to limit themselves.

CaptainB · January 2020

OceansJenny said:

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

Meaning what? (Sorry in advance I haven’t read all the posts) if you have confirmation of first priority reserved and someone has confirmation of second priority reserved, and the first person misses while the second is in I guess I’m not seeing user error portion...

JimmyV · January 2020

CaptainB said:

OceansJenny said:

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

Meaning what? (Sorry in advance I haven’t read all the posts) if you have confirmation of first priority reserved and someone has confirmation of second priority reserved, and the first person misses while the second is in I guess I’m not seeing user error portion...

We've identified many examples of people entering their picks one at a time rather than altogether, thus disqualifying themselves from all but the last lottery they entered.

CaptainB · January 2020

JimmyV said:

CaptainB said:

OceansJenny said:

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

Meaning what? (Sorry in advance I haven’t read all the posts) if you have confirmation of first priority reserved and someone has confirmation of second priority reserved, and the first person misses while the second is in I guess I’m not seeing user error portion...

We've identified many examples of people entering their picks one at a time rather than altogether, thus disqualifying themselves from all but the last lottery they entered.

Ahh, I see. Thanks!

PB11041 · January 2020

I got in where I expected. I panicked when people started saying they got shut out on BA and others were getting 4 picks with BA, but the only plausible explanation is people failed on the order form somehow, either entering each show one at a time, doing all GA or not having the tenclub email match in the entry form.

BennyLaRue · January 2020

PB11041 said:

I got in where I expected. I panicked when people started saying they got shut out on BA and others were getting 4 picks with BA, but the only plausible explanation is people failed on the order form somehow, either entering each show one at a time, doing all GA or not having the tenclub email match in the entry form.

There are a ton of people who, understandably, assumed they got shut out because they haven't received an email yet. It's clear there was some sort of TM mistake that caused a large number of hopefully positive emails to not be sent. Support is telling them to be patient, the selection period isn't done yet.

chukdotcom · January 2020

BennyLaRue said:

PB11041 said:

I got in where I expected. I panicked when people started saying they got shut out on BA and others were getting 4 picks with BA, but the only plausible explanation is people failed on the order form somehow, either entering each show one at a time, doing all GA or not having the tenclub email match in the entry form.

There are a ton of people who, understandably, assumed they got shut out because they haven't received an email yet. It's clear there was some sort of TM mistake that caused a large number of hopefully positive emails to not be sent. Support is telling them to be patient, the selection period isn't done yet.

No charge, no tickets IMO. Regardless of email status.

Lerxst1992 · January 2020

OceansJenny said:

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

There were some with only one pick where resubmission error isnt known

cincybearcat · January 2020

benjs said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

For what it's worth, if we're down to three options - there's manipulation of the entries, there's a glitch in the system, there's a handful of people who didn't follow the steps properly, I know what I'm speculating based on six years in IT.

Ah, glitch then. IT sucks

chukdotcom · January 2020

benjs said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name.
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too.

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

For what it's worth, if we're down to three options - there's manipulation of the entries, there's a glitch in the system, there's a handful of people who didn't follow the steps properly, I know what I'm speculating based on six years in IT.

PEBKAC

Kevinman · January 2020

JimmyV said:

They gave us best available - an opportunity to not limit ourselves to either GA or reserved - and people still chose to limit themselves.

Not sure that’s how it works. Possible, but never saw that explained that way officially.

Shut out once again. Ten Club, I would like an explanation

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