Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

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Comments

  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,367
    mrussel1 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    benjs said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    I hope you all remember that Amazon kills jobs as well.   I know several people who used to work in small businesses but lost their jobs due to small businesses being squeezed out by Bezo's outright desire to kill those businesses. 
    I don't know that Bezos primary objective is to kill small business. However I will agree that certainly some businesses are negatively affected by thre growth OG Amazon.  However,  this push by AOC and NYC did not impede the progress of Amazon.  The HQ wasn't going to disproportionately affect NYC small business because of the HQ presence.  Conversely stopping the HQ from relocating is directly affecting the jobs there. 
    As someone in a small-ish retail business, I really don't think the criticism of Amazon is wholly valid.

    Amazon has done so much correctly which translates to increased customer service. They've waived returns to shareholders to instead improve their infrastructure, which then adds advantage for any business who chooses to use Marketplace services for fulfillment. Even after fees, the value Amazon can offer to small-medium sized businesses is immense - expanded reach, hands-off fulfillment services, preferable shipping rates from the immense volume Amazon handles, pulling from another client's pool of inventory if ours expires and assuring re-ordering such that no one is negatively affected, a constantly-refined eCommerce experience for clients, access to sell-through analytics, etc. 

    Some people like to complain about the natural course of events. If people hold issue with the taxes Amazon does or doesn't pay - they should be looking to politicians, not corporations. If they hold issue with a company deciding to get better at their craft and invest in their infrastructure and efficiencies and offer those benefits to clients for a fee, I think their issue is totally unwarranted. If they hold issue with the way they treat their employees - don't buy from Amazon. Amazon will listen to that message.
    the problem is, Ben, is that the bigger any given corporation gets, the less choice people have where to shop from. it becomes increasingly difficult to "send a message" by not shopping there. amazon would only listen to that message if it was a massive mobilization of millions of shoppers, which won't happen until it's too late, if ever. 
    So you think you have fewer choices today to online shop than 10 years ago? Amazon has driven down prices and forced other companies to become more efficient.  There's an argument that Amazon has been bad for other retailers, but zero evidence that it's bad for consumers.  
    I agree. I also know as a retailer the difficulties of opening a physical new store, which contrast greatly with the roughly four weeks it took three people on our team (me being one of them) from planning to execution to get ourselves listed on the Amazon Marketplace and generating profit. Providing that framework is invaluable for small businesses (and exceptionally difficult to get right), and absolutely Amazon should be compensated accordingly. I see them as a value-added partner, not just a competitor. 

    Also, smart retailers can still produce unique value to customers on the Amazon Marketplace. For example, I've heard retailers gripe that the "Buy Now" button defaults to the lowest price which typically is Amazon, but that's not entirely true. If you create a bundle of SKUs where you're the only Marketplace Seller of that unique combination of goods, the "Buy Now" button defaults to you since there's no one else. It's a simple and effective way of promoting yourself to be the de facto provider of the solution you're offering.

    I feel that small businesses likely under-leverage the Marketplace, because it feels like dancing with the devil optically, but that's really quite far from the truth. 


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    EV
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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    Great points Ben. So much if the anti- Amazon feeling is grounded in... "Bezos is too rich".  Whatever that means. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Smellyman said:
    brianlux said:
    I hope you all remember that Amazon kills jobs as well.   I know several people who used to work in small businesses but lost their jobs due to small businesses being squeezed out by Bezo's outright desire to kill those businesses. 
    and how many of those 50k-100k jobs are going to those that actually live there.

    They just get priced out.

    But progress!  corporate welfare to the billionaires!
    “Let them eat crumbs.”
    Ok so you're arguing the standard of living has been reduced overall in the past 150 years,  is that correct? 
    Are you drunk?
    That's not a valid reply.  Do you think standard of living is better or worse?
    Ok so you're arguing the standard of living has been reduced overall in the past 150 years,  is that correct?

    That is the one that makes no sense.  Maybe you got the replies mixed up.

    Are you drunk? is valid

    I apologize that you can't follow the natural progression of your own arguments.  The math behind the value of tax credits is unassailable.  10% of something is better than 20% of nothing,  in case you didn't know. 
    Depends on who gets the “something” and who gets the “nothing.” Jeff fucking Bezos don’t need “something” from the “nothings.” In case you didn’t know.
    Makes no sense as an argument.  You think Jeff loses because the HQ doesn't go to NY?  Hardly.  It's the middle and lower class that lose.
    You think AOC’s constituents “win” in an Amazon deal? Hardly. They lose the most.
    It does seem silly when I type it... Good jobs usually are a net negative for an area.  She should run an entire campaign on forcing any company that's incorporated out of the area.  Sounds like a winning argument.  
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    edited November 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    Great points Ben. So much if the anti- Amazon feeling is grounded in... "Bezos is too rich".  Whatever that means. 
    I am certainly not going to distance myself from family and friends who use Amazon, but I also stand by my belief that Bezos fully intends to do in as many independent brick and mortar bookstores as possible.  So I'll just keep working hard to see that this doesn't happen close to home.  In about five minutes I'm going in to The Bookery with my wife to work for no pay on my day off, smile on my face and giving the finger to Bezos behind my back. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,826
    So - amazon may have changed the way people shop, but not nearly as much as Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, etc.

    Amazon just saw the future and capitalized.  They are providing the service the customer wants.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,826
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Great points Ben. So much if the anti- Amazon feeling is grounded in... "Bezos is too rich".  Whatever that means. 
    I am certainly not going to distance myself from family and friends who use Amazon, but I also stand by my belief that Bezos fully intends to do in as many independent brick and mortar bookstores as possible.  So I'll just keep working hard to see that this doesn't happen close to home.  In about five minutes I'm going in to The Bookery with my wife to work for no pay on my day off, smile on my face and giving the finger to Bezos behind my back. 
    Again, the consumer wanted something and amazon gave it to them. 

    Seems to me brick and mortar stores maybe asking consumers to do what they want instead of providing what they are asking for. 

    Now - I do think there is a nice mix there, so I try to support smaller and other brick and mortar stores as well. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    I have never ordered from Amzaon.

    Of course I really don't consume anything.

    Amazon has made it easier for Americans to never get out of credit card debt
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,073
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Smellyman said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Smellyman said:
    brianlux said:
    I hope you all remember that Amazon kills jobs as well.   I know several people who used to work in small businesses but lost their jobs due to small businesses being squeezed out by Bezo's outright desire to kill those businesses. 
    and how many of those 50k-100k jobs are going to those that actually live there.

    They just get priced out.

    But progress!  corporate welfare to the billionaires!
    “Let them eat crumbs.”
    Ok so you're arguing the standard of living has been reduced overall in the past 150 years,  is that correct? 
    Are you drunk?
    That's not a valid reply.  Do you think standard of living is better or worse?
    Ok so you're arguing the standard of living has been reduced overall in the past 150 years,  is that correct?

    That is the one that makes no sense.  Maybe you got the replies mixed up.

    Are you drunk? is valid

    I apologize that you can't follow the natural progression of your own arguments.  The math behind the value of tax credits is unassailable.  10% of something is better than 20% of nothing,  in case you didn't know. 
    Depends on who gets the “something” and who gets the “nothing.” Jeff fucking Bezos don’t need “something” from the “nothings.” In case you didn’t know.
    Makes no sense as an argument.  You think Jeff loses because the HQ doesn't go to NY?  Hardly.  It's the middle and lower class that lose.
    You think AOC’s constituents “win” in an Amazon deal? Hardly. They lose the most.
    It does seem silly when I type it... Good jobs usually are a net negative for an area.  She should run an entire campaign on forcing any company that's incorporated out of the area.  Sounds like a winning argument.  
    AOC represents the best interests of her constituents, despite how wonderful and philanthropic Amazon is. If she doesn’t, she doesn’t get re-elected. Giving billions in tax breaks to Jeff Bezos so Amazon can move into her district, or the one next door, and net negatively impact her constituents, the people that live there and most likely don’t own Amazon stock, nor possess the skills and education level to work in those “great” jobs, is the worst kind of representation, the kind you (General you) constantly criticize Dems for having with Wall Street, banks and other corporations. What’s magical about Bezos?

    Who are the real winners and losers? The politicians in Albany and Amazon stock holders or the people most likely directly impacted by the decision, the local populace?
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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    The move to NYC does little for Amazon shareholders.  It doesn't directly sell one more pair of khaki shorts. There is one benefit.. the argument to tap into the diverse and talented population of NYC.  And that benefits NYC citizens.  As I stated earlier, it's not just about the direct jobs, it's about the ancillary economic activity that these jobs create as well.  That's what is lost.  And now that they aren't coming, that full size tax bill generates zero revenue. 

  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,293
    So the paint can shaker got turned on again?  Happy Thanksgiving!
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,826
    Smellyman said:
    I have never ordered from Amzaon.

    Of course I really don't consume anything.

    Amazon has made it easier for Americans to never get out of credit card debt
    No that’s on the people. I use amazon all the time and don’t have any credit card debt.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,844
    mrussel1 said:
    The move to NYC does little for Amazon shareholders.  It doesn't directly sell one more pair of khaki shorts. There is one benefit.. the argument to tap into the diverse and talented population of NYC.  And that benefits NYC citizens.  As I stated earlier, it's not just about the direct jobs, it's about the ancillary economic activity that these jobs create as well.  That's what is lost.  And now that they aren't coming, that full size tax bill generates zero revenue. 



    Aren't they coming here anyway? Almost as soon as the HQ2 was cancelled it was widely reported Amazon wanted 100000 sq feet of NYC office space?

    All the tech companies are expanding here, for good reason.  If Amazon wants to compete in this labor market they will expand here as well.

    The  tech industry understands what some popular rock bands do not, you just cant beat the numbers here.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,073
    All unicorns and rainbows.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/business/amazon-baltimore.html
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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    I don’t understand the hate for Amazon. Why do we hate when people are successful?
    He went from working at McDonalds in high school to where he is now. Amazon started as an online bookstore and has grown. I like the fact it has grown. I got same day delivery on several items I recently ordered. A few years ago I was amazed at 2-day delivery, now I can get many things in a matter of hours.

    And there are tons of online options. Even though Amazon, many independent stores sell their items via Amazon. 
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,073
    Horatio Alger lives. Horatio Alger wouldn’t rely on billions in tax credits and breaks, whilst being a billionaire, however.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,073
    And without $3BB in tax payer incentives or any amount of tax payer funded incentives. Imagine that?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/06/nyregion/amazon-hudson-yards.html
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    And without $3BB in tax payer incentives or any amount of tax payer funded incentives. Imagine that?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/06/nyregion/amazon-hudson-yards.html
    1500 jobs vs 25k.  
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,844

    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    And without $3BB in tax payer incentives or any amount of tax payer funded incentives. Imagine that?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/06/nyregion/amazon-hudson-yards.html
    1500 jobs vs 25k.  

    Not even a year into the promise of the deal. In 15 years how close to that alleged 25k will they be? Pun intended.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,073
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    And without $3BB in tax payer incentives or any amount of tax payer funded incentives. Imagine that?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/06/nyregion/amazon-hudson-yards.html
    1500 jobs vs 25k.  
    It’s not always about the jobs, particularly with a 3.5% unemployment rate, so it was reported. $3BB in tax credits when unemployment is below 5%. Makes sense. What do you (you in the general sense) offer when the recession hits? Unicorns and rainbows, I get it. 
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,073
    Hey! Lets cut the interest rate while we’re at it. Nothing like giving the Team Trump Treason & Bezos types more cheap money, you know, when they don’t need it. But charity, yo!
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