Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

And without $3BB in tax payer incentives or any amount of tax payer funded incentives. Imagine that?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/06/nyregion/amazon-hudson-yards.html

1500 jobs vs 25k.  

Not even a year into the promise of the deal. In 15 years how close to that alleged 25k will they be? Pun intended.

And what happens when the recession hits and consumer spending tanks? Amazon layoffs, reduced tax receipts and the state taxpayers obligated to subsidize the brilliance of trickledown, negating those who lost their “life” as they knew it. All negotiated and advocated when unemployment is reported below 5% and the “investor” is a multi-billionaire. Suckers. But let me guess, those arguing the most forcefully, don’t actually live in, around, adjacent or even remotely close to either site, or Crystal City? Just a guess.

Halifax2TheMax

Unicorns and rainbows.

brianlux

mace1229 said:

I don’t understand the hate for Amazon. Why do we hate when people are successful?
He went from working at McDonalds in high school to where he is now. Amazon started as an online bookstore and has grown. I like the fact it has grown. I got same day delivery on several items I recently ordered. A few years ago I was amazed at 2-day delivery, now I can get many things in a matter of hours.

And there are tons of online options. Even though Amazon, many independent stores sell their items via Amazon. 

"Hate" is a pretty strong word.  I only use it in an exaggerated pejorative sense as in, "I hate poison oak", or, "I hate it when when I can't find my keys."

But I have great disrespect and no small degree of disdain for Amazon.  The facts are, that company treats its employees poorly (this is widely reported), they have sold counterfeit items  without properly determining if they are genuine (that's piracy/ theft), the company paid no federal income tax in 2017 and 2018 (our businesses sure as heck did), and it's owner has made it clear he wants to shut down as many small/ family owned/ independent businesses as possible.  All of that is disgusting.  I don't get how people can support that. 

And let's not forget that there are several companies, including other online companies that are subsidiaries, acquisitions and mergers of Amazon.  Some of those online options are not really options.  You can view 101 of the here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Amazon

I don't see how it is that it is so hard to understand the dislike of Amazon. 

Halifax2TheMax

“They didn’t build that.” They took advantage and exploited the situation. Like Jersey yo! 

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

I don’t understand the hate for Amazon. Why do we hate when people are successful?
He went from working at McDonalds in high school to where he is now. Amazon started as an online bookstore and has grown. I like the fact it has grown. I got same day delivery on several items I recently ordered. A few years ago I was amazed at 2-day delivery, now I can get many things in a matter of hours.

And there are tons of online options. Even though Amazon, many independent stores sell their items via Amazon. 

"Hate" is a pretty strong word.  I only use it in an exaggerated pejorative sense as in, "I hate poison oak", or, "I hate it when when I can't find my keys."

But I have great disrespect and no small degree of disdain for Amazon.  The facts are, that company treats its employees poorly (this is widely reported), they have sold counterfeit items  without properly determining if they are genuine (that's piracy/ theft), the company paid no federal income tax in 2017 and 2018 (our businesses sure as heck did), and it's owner has made it clear he wants to shut down as many small/ family owned/ independent businesses as possible.  All of that is disgusting.  I don't get how people can support that. 

And let's not forget that there are several companies, including other online companies that are subsidiaries, acquisitions and mergers of Amazon.  Some of those online options are not really options.  You can view 101 of the here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Amazon

I don't see how it is that it is so hard to understand the dislike of Amazon. 

You can dislike them all you want, but more me they provide a great hassle-free way shop.  Great prices and no lines at the checkout...and open 24/7

benjs

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

I don’t understand the hate for Amazon. Why do we hate when people are successful?
He went from working at McDonalds in high school to where he is now. Amazon started as an online bookstore and has grown. I like the fact it has grown. I got same day delivery on several items I recently ordered. A few years ago I was amazed at 2-day delivery, now I can get many things in a matter of hours.

And there are tons of online options. Even though Amazon, many independent stores sell their items via Amazon. 

"Hate" is a pretty strong word.  I only use it in an exaggerated pejorative sense as in, "I hate poison oak", or, "I hate it when when I can't find my keys."

But I have great disrespect and no small degree of disdain for Amazon.  The facts are, that company treats its employees poorly (this is widely reported), they have sold counterfeit items  without properly determining if they are genuine (that's piracy/ theft), the company paid no federal income tax in 2017 and 2018 (our businesses sure as heck did), and it's owner has made it clear he wants to shut down as many small/ family owned/ independent businesses as possible.  All of that is disgusting.  I don't get how people can support that. 

And let's not forget that there are several companies, including other online companies that are subsidiaries, acquisitions and mergers of Amazon.  Some of those online options are not really options.  You can view 101 of the here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Amazon

I don't see how it is that it is so hard to understand the dislike of Amazon. 

Hey Brian, just wanted to mention that while I don't share your sentiment about several of these arguments, I understand why you feel the way you do given the business you're in. 

I still believe that the targeting you've felt by Amazon (wanting to shut down smaller businesses) is incidental, not intentional. I sadly feel that if it weren't Amazon, a monolothic eCommerce provider that seeks vertical integration (distribution, distribution networks, eComm platform, fulfillment, post-sale service infrastructure) would be inevitably produced by another company. I feel this is the natural course of retail because it's a practical innovation that they pursued. It's also the nature that this would hurt independents more than larger businesses. The challenge for all of us retailers is how we modify the experience we're delivering, and add value in a way that Amazon can't.

On the federal income tax paid - of course I wish our taxes were zero this year, but there was no legal avenue for a business in our position to do so. If there was, I would unapologetically take it, and I would also accept those who criticize the government who give me this avenue. I would also redirect anyone who offered criticism in my direction to take it up with the government. This is the ONE agreement Trump and I have. If there's a legal opportunity to save money as a business because of a poor tax system design, it is not unethical to seize that opportunity. 

On how their employees are treated, and the counterfeit items - are serious issues which Amazon must address. I'm certain that the counterfeit items are being investigated as we speak, because there's a financial and service disincentive associated with allowing them to proliferate unfettered on the Amazon store, as it degrades customer trust. On the treatment of their employees, I would love to read some good news on that regard - I will 100% agree with you there!

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

Hey! Lets cut the interest rate while we’re at it. Nothing like giving the Team Trump Treason & Bezos types more cheap money, you know, when they don’t need it. But charity, yo!

Few things...

1. The tax credits would not be realized for Amazon unless they created 25k net new jobs by 2028.  That's at least one recession cycle, not that the got the credits on day one.  So I don't understand your comparison to an interest rate cut, which is immediate.  

2. My point is that it's kind of silly for AOC to spike the football and declare "they're coming anyway!".  Because there's a big difference between building a new HQ for 25k people in Queens and renting 300k feet and hiring 1500 people in Manhattan.  

Lerxst1992

benjs said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

I don’t understand the hate for Amazon. Why do we hate when people are successful?
He went from working at McDonalds in high school to where he is now. Amazon started as an online bookstore and has grown. I like the fact it has grown. I got same day delivery on several items I recently ordered. A few years ago I was amazed at 2-day delivery, now I can get many things in a matter of hours.

And there are tons of online options. Even though Amazon, many independent stores sell their items via Amazon. 

"Hate" is a pretty strong word.  I only use it in an exaggerated pejorative sense as in, "I hate poison oak", or, "I hate it when when I can't find my keys."

But I have great disrespect and no small degree of disdain for Amazon.  The facts are, that company treats its employees poorly (this is widely reported), they have sold counterfeit items  without properly determining if they are genuine (that's piracy/ theft), the company paid no federal income tax in 2017 and 2018 (our businesses sure as heck did), and it's owner has made it clear he wants to shut down as many small/ family owned/ independent businesses as possible.  All of that is disgusting.  I don't get how people can support that. 

And let's not forget that there are several companies, including other online companies that are subsidiaries, acquisitions and mergers of Amazon.  Some of those online options are not really options.  You can view 101 of the here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Amazon

I don't see how it is that it is so hard to understand the dislike of Amazon. 

Hey Brian, just wanted to mention that while I don't share your sentiment about several of these arguments, I understand why you feel the way you do given the business you're in. 

I still believe that the targeting you've felt by Amazon (wanting to shut down smaller businesses) is incidental, not intentional. I sadly feel that if it weren't Amazon, a monolothic eCommerce provider that seeks vertical integration (distribution, distribution networks, eComm platform, fulfillment, post-sale service infrastructure) would be inevitably produced by another company. I feel this is the natural course of retail because it's a practical innovation that they pursued. It's also the nature that this would hurt independents more than larger businesses. The challenge for all of us retailers is how we modify the experience we're delivering, and add value in a way that Amazon can't.

On the federal income tax paid - of course I wish our taxes were zero this year, but there was no legal avenue for a business in our position to do so. If there was, I would unapologetically take it, and I would also accept those who criticize the government who give me this avenue. I would also redirect anyone who offered criticism in my direction to take it up with the government. This is the ONE agreement Trump and I have. If there's a legal opportunity to save money as a business because of a poor tax system design, it is not unethical to seize that opportunity. 

On how their employees are treated, and the counterfeit items - are serious issues which Amazon must address. I'm certain that the counterfeit items are being investigated as we speak, because there's a financial and service disincentive associated with allowing them to proliferate unfettered on the Amazon store, as it degrades customer trust. On the treatment of their employees, I would love to read some good news on that regard - I will 100% agree with you there!

I’m the last democrat that wants to vilify billionaires but Bezos is a great example of what’s wrong with the 2019 post Reagan era of capitalism. When republicans say no regulation, bezos is a great example of what you get.

Monopolies are not supposed to exist in a free market. I am sure Adam Smith would agree to that. A free market cannot operate freely if one participant can effectively crush most others with minimal effort and game all the rules and laws for itself. Amazon is effectively a vertical and nearly a horizontal monopoly. They can do whatever they want with little government intervention. They pay more in political contributions than income taxes. Heck, they pay more in toilet paper expenses than federal income taxes. Yet somehow the owner gets to walk around with how many tens of billions in his pocket?

I work at a large company and management is very separate from the day to day. A book club gives rare access to higher level employees. . The current book is the auto bio of the nike billionaire. A very divisive figure who has trampled on worker rights and very indifferent to worker lives on his way to his billions. His people have died for him and his defense is pure propaganda about divesting production like he has no control over production. But to the brown noses reading the book they gush about him often and they are only getting one side of his story. Frankly it’s disgusting hearing them talk about him like that in the office.

I'm the last Democrat to want to support Warren type policies. But we live in an era where companies have no issue rewarding pro billionaire and pro management propaganda in the office and the govt is powerless to reign in billionaires creating rules and laws to get themselves more slices of the pie. But warren is not doing a good job explaining this imo. She is going too far. She needs to do more convincing before adding 6% in wealth taxes. Start at 2% at most and convince independents. Change should be more incremental. Cooperman is right, billionaires have feelings too.

brianlux

benjs said:

Hey Brian, just wanted to mention that while I don't share your sentiment about several of these arguments, I understand why you feel the way you do given the business you're in. 

I still believe that the targeting you've felt by Amazon (wanting to shut down smaller businesses) is incidental, not intentional. I sadly feel that if it weren't Amazon, a monolothic eCommerce provider that seeks vertical integration (distribution, distribution networks, eComm platform, fulfillment, post-sale service infrastructure) would be inevitably produced by another company. I feel this is the natural course of retail because it's a practical innovation that they pursued. It's also the nature that this would hurt independents more than larger businesses. The challenge for all of us retailers is how we modify the experience we're delivering, and add value in a way that Amazon can't.

On the federal income tax paid - of course I wish our taxes were zero this year, but there was no legal avenue for a business in our position to do so. If there was, I would unapologetically take it, and I would also accept those who criticize the government who give me this avenue. I would also redirect anyone who offered criticism in my direction to take it up with the government. This is the ONE agreement Trump and I have. If there's a legal opportunity to save money as a business because of a poor tax system design, it is not unethical to seize that opportunity. 

On how their employees are treated, and the counterfeit items - are serious issues which Amazon must address. I'm certain that the counterfeit items are being investigated as we speak, because there's a financial and service disincentive associated with allowing them to proliferate unfettered on the Amazon store, as it degrades customer trust. On the treatment of their employees, I would love to read some good news on that regard - I will 100% agree with you there!

"The challenge for all of us retailers is how we modify the experience we're delivering, and add value in a way that Amazon can't."

That's one of the strong points of C's store and my business, Ben.  We can provide things that Amazon cannot including a friendly, warm, personable environment to shop in. Our customers are able to see for themselves what they are getting- there is no false or inaccurate grading of our book, records and other products and we don't need to offer small refunds on bogus grading in order to hopefully boost a phony rating.

And we bend over backwards to please our customers.  We develop relationships with them.  We have a real, tangible relationship with our community.  We support local groups, especially schools.  We have often provided free job shadowing/ training for young students seeking experience in the world of working.  C and N sell tea cups and tea pots and 100% of the income from them (income, not profit) goes to their "Second Cup of Tea" program that helps feed the hungry.  We provide free window space for advertising local fundraising events, community programs, and school events.   

Every time a small business like ours is shut down, these are the things that are lost.  There has already been too much loss of community and in-person, interpersonal support in this society and every loss is a sad one.  Fortunately, we are still doing well enough and can still provide these things.

And as for the employees- one will not find a happier, well taken care of group of employees like our in Amazon.  Not even close.

As far as selling stuff on-line goes, I'm not totally against it, not at all.  I'm just not a fan of mega-corporations  and monopolies.  Sadly, I cannot find the info about Bezos bragging about shutting down independent businesses.  I'll look for them when I have more time. 

And Ben, as always, thanks for your well thought out reply.  We may not be exactly on the same page here, but I always respect your comments!

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said:

Hey Brian, just wanted to mention that while I don't share your sentiment about several of these arguments, I understand why you feel the way you do given the business you're in. 

I still believe that the targeting you've felt by Amazon (wanting to shut down smaller businesses) is incidental, not intentional. I sadly feel that if it weren't Amazon, a monolothic eCommerce provider that seeks vertical integration (distribution, distribution networks, eComm platform, fulfillment, post-sale service infrastructure) would be inevitably produced by another company. I feel this is the natural course of retail because it's a practical innovation that they pursued. It's also the nature that this would hurt independents more than larger businesses. The challenge for all of us retailers is how we modify the experience we're delivering, and add value in a way that Amazon can't.

On the federal income tax paid - of course I wish our taxes were zero this year, but there was no legal avenue for a business in our position to do so. If there was, I would unapologetically take it, and I would also accept those who criticize the government who give me this avenue. I would also redirect anyone who offered criticism in my direction to take it up with the government. This is the ONE agreement Trump and I have. If there's a legal opportunity to save money as a business because of a poor tax system design, it is not unethical to seize that opportunity. 

On how their employees are treated, and the counterfeit items - are serious issues which Amazon must address. I'm certain that the counterfeit items are being investigated as we speak, because there's a financial and service disincentive associated with allowing them to proliferate unfettered on the Amazon store, as it degrades customer trust. On the treatment of their employees, I would love to read some good news on that regard - I will 100% agree with you there!

I’m the last democrat that wants to vilify billionaires but Bezos is a great example of what’s wrong with the 2019 post Reagan era of capitalism. When republicans say no regulation, bezos is a great example of what you get.

Monopolies are not supposed to exist in a free market. I am sure Adam Smith would agree to that. A free market cannot operate freely if one participant can effectively crush most others with minimal effort and game all the rules and laws for itself. Amazon is effectively a vertical and nearly a horizontal monopoly. They can do whatever they want with little government intervention. They pay more in political contributions than income taxes. Heck, they pay more in toilet paper expenses than federal income taxes. Yet somehow the owner gets to walk around with how many tens of billions in his pocket?

I work at a large company and management is very separate from the day to day. A book club gives rare access to higher level employees. . The current book is the auto bio of the nike billionaire. A very divisive figure who has trampled on worker rights and very indifferent to worker lives on his way to his billions. His people have died for him and his defense is pure propaganda about divesting production like he has no control over production. But to the brown noses reading the book they gush about him often and they are only getting one side of his story. Frankly it’s disgusting hearing them talk about him like that in the office.

I'm the last Democrat to want to support Warren type policies. But we live in an era where companies have no issue rewarding pro billionaire and pro management propaganda in the office and the govt is powerless to reign in billionaires creating rules and laws to get themselves more slices of the pie. But warren is not doing a good job explaining this imo. She is going too far. She needs to do more convincing before adding 6% in wealth taxes. Start at 2% at most and convince independents. Change should be more incremental. Cooperman is right, billionaires have feelings too.

This is one of my major beefs with Amazon.  They are basically a monopoly.

i_lov_it

What a joke lol

dignin

i_lov_it said:

Fucking whore lol

This was the edit?

i_lov_it

dignin said:

i_lov_it said:

Fucking whore lol

This was the edit?

Edit for what?

dignin

i_lov_it said:

dignin said:

i_lov_it said:

Fucking whore lol

This was the edit?

Edit for what?

You edited that disgusting comment, I'm curious what was initially said. Maybe you edited it for grammar?

HughFreakingDillon

i_lov_it said:

Fucking whore lol

  

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

i_lov_it said:

Fucking whore lol

  

Stop feeding them...

cincybearcat

In the words of GWB "Well, that was some weird shit"

Spiritual_Chaos

dignin said:

i_lov_it said:

Fucking whore lol

This was the edit?

Calling someone a "fucking whore" doesn't result in a ban? 

I have such a hard time navigating  the rules of this forum. It's like the Jumanji world in here.

i_lov_it

Spiritual_Chaos said:

dignin said:

i_lov_it said:

Fucking whore lol

This was the edit?

Calling someone a "fucking whore" doesn't result in a ban? 

I have such a hard time navigating  the rules of this forum. It's like the Jumanji world in here.

Get off your high horse...

Spiritual_Chaos

i_lov_it said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

dignin said:

i_lov_it said:

Fucking whore lol

This was the edit?

Calling someone a "fucking whore" doesn't result in a ban? 

I have such a hard time navigating  the rules of this forum. It's like the Jumanji world in here.

Get off your high horse...

Like my mom used to say, better to be on a high horse not calling women "fucking whores" than being down on the ground calling women "fucking whores". 

Always wondered what she meant by it. Now finally I understand.

i_lov_it

Spiritual_Chaos said:

i_lov_it said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

dignin said:

i_lov_it said:

Fucking whore lol

This was the edit?

Calling someone a "fucking whore" doesn't result in a ban? 

I have such a hard time navigating  the rules of this forum. It's like the Jumanji world in here.

Get off your high horse...

Like my mom used to say, better to be on a high horse not calling women "fucking whores" than being down on the ground calling women "fucking whores". 

Always wondered what she meant by it. Now finally I understand.

That absolutely makes no sense to the topic we're on...try to stay on topic