Living without money.

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  • eddiec
    eddiec Posts: 3,959
    This has probably been posted on these boards but is apt for this thread. Takes one minute to read.

    There was once a businessman who was sitting by the beach in a small Brazilian village.
    As he sat, he saw a Brazilian fisherman rowing a small boat towards the shore having caught quite few big fish.
    The businessman was impressed and asked the fisherman, “How long does it take you to catch so many fish?”
    The fisherman replied, “Oh, just a short while.”
    “Then why don’t you stay longer at sea and catch even more?” The businessman was astonished.
    “This is enough to feed my whole family,” the fisherman said.
    The businessman then asked, “So, what do you do for the rest of the day?”
    The fisherman replied, “Well, I usually wake up early in the morning, go out to sea and catch a few fish, then go back and play with my kids. In the afternoon, I take a nap with my wife, and evening comes, I join my buddies in the village for a drink — we play guitar, sing and dance throughout the night.”

    The businessman offered a suggestion to the fisherman.
    “I am a PhD in business management. I could help you to become a more successful person. From now on, you should spend more time at sea and try to catch as many fish as possible. When you have saved enough money, you could buy a bigger boat and catch even more fish. Soon you will be able to afford to buy more boats, set up your own company, your own production plant for canned food and distribution network. By then, you will have moved out of this village and to Sao Paulo, where you can set up HQ to manage your other branches.”

    The fisherman continues, “And after that?”
    The businessman laughs heartily, “After that, you can live like a king in your own house, and when the time is right, you can go public and float your shares in the Stock Exchange, and you will be rich.”
    The fisherman asks, “And after that?”
    The businessman says, “After that, you can finally retire, you can move to a house by the fishing village, wake up early in the morning, catch a few fish, then return home to play with kids, have a nice afternoon nap with your wife, and when evening comes, you can join your buddies for a drink, play the guitar, sing and dance throughout the night!”
    The fisherman was puzzled, “Isn’t that what I am doing now?”

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    The American way, to work work work for a retirement so you can sit back and regret all the things you didn't do when you were young enough to do them.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    rgambs said:
    The American way, to work work work for a retirement so you can sit back and regret all the things you didn't do when you were young enough to do them.
    I don’t know about that.  Working has helped me tremendously in being able to afford to do the thing I’ve done while young...I guess it is all relative to your individuality.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    rgambs said:
    The American way, to work work work for a retirement so you can sit back and regret all the things you didn't do when you were young enough to do them.
    Sad, isn't it?  But that's what our schooling is all about- turning people into worker bees so they can make money to buy a lot of stuff that's poorly made and constantly needs to be replaced and most of which does not hold one's attention for very long or is unneeded in the first place.  Consumer worker bees, the American Way.  To anyone who strives to live outside those constricting parameters, I say "good for you!" 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    I don't know, man. I kind of like money. 
    www.myspace.com
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    The Juggler said:
    I don't know, man. I kind of like money. 
    I like cool looking old coins and colorful money from other countries.  :smiley:
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • pearljammr78
    pearljammr78 Posts: 1,613
    I like good food and vinyl. I love being outdoors but that takes gas to get too. All things mentioned take money. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    pearljammr78 said:
    I like good food and vinyl. I love being outdoors but that takes gas to get too. All things mentioned take money. 
    This is true.  But the best things in life have no relation to money.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • pearljammr78
    pearljammr78 Posts: 1,613
    brianlux said:
    pearljammr78 said:
    I like good food and vinyl. I love being outdoors but that takes gas to get too. All things mentioned take money. 
    This is true.  But the best things in life have no relation to money.
    You are so correct. Love is free. And according to The Beatles, “Love is all you need” 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    It brings peace of mind as well.  Mortgage payments, food, electricity...the basics.  Unless one fully embraces the OP's way of living, it's simply neither feasible nor realistic for most to actually do it.

    Love is wonderful, and needed too, but it's not a cure-all nor does it pay the bills.
  • pearljammr78
    pearljammr78 Posts: 1,613
     Love is the most important thing a person can obtain in their life. Health, safety, piece of mind, shelter, I could go on and on forever but those all take money. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited August 2019
    I'm pretty surprised (though I guess I shouldn't be) at how hard it is for Pearl Jam fans to countenance a lifestyle outside of Western Civilization norms.

    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • pearljammr78
    pearljammr78 Posts: 1,613
    rgambs said:
    I'm pretty surprised (though I guess I shouldn't be) at how hard it is for Pearl Jam fans to countenance a lifestyle outside of Western Civilization norms.

    How is money and what comes with achieving it a Western Civilization norm? All facets of human society have had some form of currency. And the few that do “survive” without money need many things to work in their favor to even survive. Money brings a lot of evil with it, greed being the main factor in that. To each his own. Whatever anyone wants to do to make their lives complete to them all the power to them. It’s just not for me. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    pearljammr78 said:
    rgambs said:
    I'm pretty surprised (though I guess I shouldn't be) at how hard it is for Pearl Jam fans to countenance a lifestyle outside of Western Civilization norms.

    How is money and what comes with achieving it a Western Civilization norm? All facets of human society have had some form of currency. And the few that do “survive” without money need many things to work in their favor to even survive. Money brings a lot of evil with it, greed being the main factor in that. To each his own. Whatever anyone wants to do to make their lives complete to them all the power to them. It’s just not for me. 
    Quite a few things have been listed that people seem to think require money and they don't.  Also, a few things have been listed that aren't necessary to a happy or fulfilled life at all.
    Now, I'm not saying this is the right lifestyle, or even a better one, but when people can't even conceive or accept the idea of something different, it shows a high level of inurement within Western norms.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    rgambs said:
    pearljammr78 said:
    rgambs said:
    I'm pretty surprised (though I guess I shouldn't be) at how hard it is for Pearl Jam fans to countenance a lifestyle outside of Western Civilization norms.

    How is money and what comes with achieving it a Western Civilization norm? All facets of human society have had some form of currency. And the few that do “survive” without money need many things to work in their favor to even survive. Money brings a lot of evil with it, greed being the main factor in that. To each his own. Whatever anyone wants to do to make their lives complete to them all the power to them. It’s just not for me. 
    Quite a few things have been listed that people seem to think require money and they don't.  Also, a few things have been listed that aren't necessary to a happy or fulfilled life at all.
    Now, I'm not saying this is the right lifestyle, or even a better one, but when people can't even conceive or accept the idea of something different, it shows a high level of inurement within Western norms.
    Well said.

    Another thing worth considering is this:  Does having money really provide peace of mind?  I think it does the opposite.  I think it increases worry.  People who have lived (and a few who still do) in hunter gather societies worry much less than those of us who live in the civilized world.  And other than a few rare exceptions like squirrels and beavers, most animals do not prepare for the future.  They live in the here and now.  They eat plants and the bodies of other animals, but do not store up "wealth for the future".  And when they die, their bodies become part of the cycle.  I think that's a beautiful thing.

    As I've said, at my age and at this point in my life, a money free way of living is just not going to happen.  But I can imagine it and may have tried it when I was younger.  And if nothing else, looking at this alternative to western modern culture provides the opportunity to re-evaluate one's ties to money, to think about what is really important and what is not so important.  And for someone like me who is very prone to worrying, it helps me to see life in a different way that gives me the perspective to see how useless that worrying is.  And it's helped me to be more generous.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    rgambs said:
    pearljammr78 said:
    rgambs said:
    I'm pretty surprised (though I guess I shouldn't be) at how hard it is for Pearl Jam fans to countenance a lifestyle outside of Western Civilization norms.

    How is money and what comes with achieving it a Western Civilization norm? All facets of human society have had some form of currency. And the few that do “survive” without money need many things to work in their favor to even survive. Money brings a lot of evil with it, greed being the main factor in that. To each his own. Whatever anyone wants to do to make their lives complete to them all the power to them. It’s just not for me. 
    Quite a few things have been listed that people seem to think require money and they don't.  Also, a few things have been listed that aren't necessary to a happy or fulfilled life at all.
    Now, I'm not saying this is the right lifestyle, or even a better one, but when people can't even conceive or accept the idea of something different, it shows a high level of inurement within Western norms.
    We actually debated why it isn't something for us. I looked at the idea and find it to not be very rewarding in an older age or if you have family to rely on. I've accepted that it isn't for me.

    Next time you go hunting use a bow and arrow that you made yourself.  I wouldn't want you to have any inruement with those modern western hunting ways.
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    rgambs said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Into the wild
    That book and McCandless' quest for a simpler life was also inspiring.  And another fine read too!
    I have actually read that Alaska Authorities said that book and the story of McCandliss have been more harmful than anything.  McCandliss was ill-prepared and had no real idea of how to live off-grid or off the land.  Every year Alaska has to do some rescue's along that trail and just a couple weeks ago a honeymooning couple from Europe had tragedy strike when the newlywed bride died crossing a fast-moving river and was swept away 1feet  downriver...

    I wish the media would quit with the romance of living off the land.  Not much of society is equipped to live off the land...
    That is not an accurate summary of the McCandless story.  He was pretty well prepared and he was living quite successfully until he got sick, most likely from a fungal infection.

    Yes, his story has inspired idiots to exercise their idiocy, but a cursory glance at the SAR records of any major National Park will show that idiots love to exercise their idiocy at every opportunity.
    Into the Wild
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_(film)

    Noting McCandless' unpreparedness, the stranger who drops him off lends him a pair of boots.  

    Four months later, at the abandoned bus, life for McCandless becomes harder, and he begins to make poor decisions. As his supplies begin to run out, he realizes that nature is also harsh and uncaring. 

    Dude.  The guy did not even have the most basic equipment...good hiking boots.  That sounds like some who was prepared.  He did not even make it summer.

    If he was prepared he would have known about the runoff that causes that particular river hard to cross.  

    Give Peas A Chance…
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Meltdown99 said:
    rgambs said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Into the wild
    That book and McCandless' quest for a simpler life was also inspiring.  And another fine read too!
    I have actually read that Alaska Authorities said that book and the story of McCandliss have been more harmful than anything.  McCandliss was ill-prepared and had no real idea of how to live off-grid or off the land.  Every year Alaska has to do some rescue's along that trail and just a couple weeks ago a honeymooning couple from Europe had tragedy strike when the newlywed bride died crossing a fast-moving river and was swept away 1feet  downriver...

    I wish the media would quit with the romance of living off the land.  Not much of society is equipped to live off the land...
    That is not an accurate summary of the McCandless story.  He was pretty well prepared and he was living quite successfully until he got sick, most likely from a fungal infection.

    Yes, his story has inspired idiots to exercise their idiocy, but a cursory glance at the SAR records of any major National Park will show that idiots love to exercise their idiocy at every opportunity.
    Into the Wild
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_(film)

    Noting McCandless' unpreparedness, the stranger who drops him off lends him a pair of boots.  

    Four months later, at the abandoned bus, life for McCandless becomes harder, and he begins to make poor decisions. As his supplies begin to run out, he realizes that nature is also harsh and uncaring. 

    Dude.  The guy did not even have the most basic equipment...good hiking boots.  That sounds like some who was prepared.  He did not even make it summer.

    If he was prepared he would have known about the runoff that causes that particular river hard to cross.  

    Did you really just quote a Wikipedia article about a Hollywood film based on a book as a source? lol
    Try again.  Read the book and Krakauer's interviews and notes.
    Quoting the movie summary lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Suelo is not the first person (or last) to consider living without money.  In fact, there are movements that envision societies without money.  Here's one I came across called The Freed World Charter. (I don't know a lot about it yet but am interested.)  There website makes a good point:

    "Everything we need for survival: water, food, air, energy, biodiversity, compassion, have become jeopardized through our prioritisation of profit over nature."


    Ernest Callenbach who wrote the well known book, Ecotopia, stated, “It is so hard to imagine anything fundamentally different from what we have now. But without these alternate visions, we get stuck on dead center. And we’d better get ready. We need to know where we’d like to go.”

    Our economic system with its estrangement from nature is destructive at its core.  If we don't widen our vision and seek new ways to live, we will have no future as a species.  None of this will happen over night, but if we don't start thinking outside the box, we carry on toward our own peril.



    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    edited August 2019
    rgambs said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    rgambs said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Into the wild
    That book and McCandless' quest for a simpler life was also inspiring.  And another fine read too!
    I have actually read that Alaska Authorities said that book and the story of McCandliss have been more harmful than anything.  McCandliss was ill-prepared and had no real idea of how to live off-grid or off the land.  Every year Alaska has to do some rescue's along that trail and just a couple weeks ago a honeymooning couple from Europe had tragedy strike when the newlywed bride died crossing a fast-moving river and was swept away 1feet  downriver...

    I wish the media would quit with the romance of living off the land.  Not much of society is equipped to live off the land...
    That is not an accurate summary of the McCandless story.  He was pretty well prepared and he was living quite successfully until he got sick, most likely from a fungal infection.

    Yes, his story has inspired idiots to exercise their idiocy, but a cursory glance at the SAR records of any major National Park will show that idiots love to exercise their idiocy at every opportunity.
    Into the Wild
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_(film)

    Noting McCandless' unpreparedness, the stranger who drops him off lends him a pair of boots.  

    Four months later, at the abandoned bus, life for McCandless becomes harder, and he begins to make poor decisions. As his supplies begin to run out, he realizes that nature is also harsh and uncaring. 

    Dude.  The guy did not even have the most basic equipment...good hiking boots.  That sounds like some who was prepared.  He did not even make it summer.

    If he was prepared he would have known about the runoff that causes that particular river hard to cross.  

    Did you really just quote a Wikipedia article about a Hollywood film based on a book as a source? lol
    Try again.  Read the book and Krakauer's interviews and notes.
    Quoting the movie summary lol
    Dude...all you do is flap your gums about how right you are and how wrong everyone else...you are a baffle them with bullshit kind of guy...not dazzle them with brilliance.  You should learn to ignore my post because I think very little of you...and some of your ridiculous post...


    Give Peas A Chance…

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