How to stop White Terrorism in the U.S

bootlegger10 said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

bootlegger10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

oftenreading said:

A racist, white supremacist drives 9 hours to commit a mass murder and says that he was driven to it because of immigration, and people actually agree with him and say that this is an indicator that immigration is partly to blame? A big hell no to that!

The purported motives of a mass murderer should not be influencing our policies; logic, science, compassion and law should influence our policies. If this mass murderer drove to a setting mostly filled with women, shot a few dozen women and girls, and said that he was driven to it because of the problems of feminism, would people agree and say yeah,  we need to do something about all of these uppity women driving men to violence? 

It's bizarre that people actually think that "immigration helped bring this violence forward". Guns and racism brought this violence forward.

The “normalization” has begun.

You two are the reason things don't get done anymore.  You can't have a conversation.  Even with people who agree with you that guns and racism are a big problem in the U.S.A.   Like I said before in another thread, guns are what the psychos use to kill people, and not why.   Trump used lack of enforcement on the borders as rhetoric to win the election.  You hate Trump so much but can't acknowledge his methods for winning the election besides Russia?   He would have beat Hillary without Russian involvement.  It is a big country and filled with a lot of people that are pissed off and frustrated, and take it out on something "illegal" even if illegal immigration isn't impacting them. You obviously don't understand that. 

I'm saying let's figure out immigration so that people can come here legally under rules that both parties can approve of (might be a pipe dream).  Then perhaps we can remove the rhetoric used by Trump and people like Trump to drive up hate (might be another pipe dream).  While removing guns is a terrific start, there will always be cars, make shift bombs (like OKC), illegal guns on the blackmarket, etc... that can be used to hurt people. 

I have been suggesting to fix Immigration reform because Trump used it to win ever since Trump won the election and not because of the gun violence.   Immigration is the last hope of the Republicans though to keep power.  They won't be a part of reform because crying "illegal immigration" is their last card to play.  Nothing left in the deck.  What I am suggesting will help immigrants. 

Immigration reform was on the table during the Obama Administration and nothing got done because the repubs saw it as an issue to motivate their base of white racists. Team Trump Treason weaponized it with his build the wall chants and other repubs stoked the flames with drugs and rapists comments. You’re now seeing the results. I’m sorry you don’t understand that.

Cincy’s comments basically justify the rhetoric that’s been used by Team Trump Treason and the repubs to justify the result, I.e. if we had immigration reform, we wouldn’t have had a mass shooting in El Paso. I call bullshit because almost every mass shooting from Columbine to Dayton had nothing to do with immigration but rather angry white males with easy access to firearms and weapons of war. So stop with the fucking bullshit about wanting to have a conversation.

And nothing will change until those “responsible” gun owners march and protest their elected representatives with their guns strapped on their backs and hips and demand change by saying, “I’m a “responsible” gun owner and I’ll go through training to be licensed, I’ll submit to universal background check, I’ll accept magazine limits, I’ll accept other reasonable licensure and regulations in an attempt to stem the violence.”

Equating the solution to mass shootings to immigration reform is just stupid.

My comment justifies the rhetoric? Wtf

My comments were around the fact politicians keep taking about immigration and doing nothing. Rhetoric helping to create the hate. 

Fuck off if you think I’m justifying trumps rhetoric or this murderer. That’s an asshole thing to say.

He thinks providing reasons for why someone did something is justifying that act.   That person missed a few classes in school. 

oftenreading said:

When ISIS was committing terrorist attacks on the West, I don’t recall many people saying “if we reform western capitalistic society they won’t have an excuse for killings”. No, we rightly dismissed the stated motives. This is the same. 

I actually don’t think that out positions are that far apart. 

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

bootlegger10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

oftenreading said:

A racist, white supremacist drives 9 hours to commit a mass murder and says that he was driven to it because of immigration, and people actually agree with him and say that this is an indicator that immigration is partly to blame? A big hell no to that!

The purported motives of a mass murderer should not be influencing our policies; logic, science, compassion and law should influence our policies. If this mass murderer drove to a setting mostly filled with women, shot a few dozen women and girls, and said that he was driven to it because of the problems of feminism, would people agree and say yeah,  we need to do something about all of these uppity women driving men to violence? 

It's bizarre that people actually think that "immigration helped bring this violence forward". Guns and racism brought this violence forward.

The “normalization” has begun.

You two are the reason things don't get done anymore.  You can't have a conversation.  Even with people who agree with you that guns and racism are a big problem in the U.S.A.   Like I said before in another thread, guns are what the psychos use to kill people, and not why.   Trump used lack of enforcement on the borders as rhetoric to win the election.  You hate Trump so much but can't acknowledge his methods for winning the election besides Russia?   He would have beat Hillary without Russian involvement.  It is a big country and filled with a lot of people that are pissed off and frustrated, and take it out on something "illegal" even if illegal immigration isn't impacting them. You obviously don't understand that. 

I'm saying let's figure out immigration so that people can come here legally under rules that both parties can approve of (might be a pipe dream).  Then perhaps we can remove the rhetoric used by Trump and people like Trump to drive up hate (might be another pipe dream).  While removing guns is a terrific start, there will always be cars, make shift bombs (like OKC), illegal guns on the blackmarket, etc... that can be used to hurt people. 

I have been suggesting to fix Immigration reform because Trump used it to win ever since Trump won the election and not because of the gun violence.   Immigration is the last hope of the Republicans though to keep power.  They won't be a part of reform because crying "illegal immigration" is their last card to play.  Nothing left in the deck.  What I am suggesting will help immigrants. 

Immigration reform was on the table during the Obama Administration and nothing got done because the repubs saw it as an issue to motivate their base of white racists. Team Trump Treason weaponized it with his build the wall chants and other repubs stoked the flames with drugs and rapists comments. You’re now seeing the results. I’m sorry you don’t understand that.

Cincy’s comments basically justify the rhetoric that’s been used by Team Trump Treason and the repubs to justify the result, I.e. if we had immigration reform, we wouldn’t have had a mass shooting in El Paso. I call bullshit because almost every mass shooting from Columbine to Dayton had nothing to do with immigration but rather angry white males with easy access to firearms and weapons of war. So stop with the fucking bullshit about wanting to have a conversation.

And nothing will change until those “responsible” gun owners march and protest their elected representatives with their guns strapped on their backs and hips and demand change by saying, “I’m a “responsible” gun owner and I’ll go through training to be licensed, I’ll submit to universal background check, I’ll accept magazine limits, I’ll accept other reasonable licensure and regulations in an attempt to stem the violence.”

Equating the solution to mass shootings to immigration reform is just stupid.

My comment justifies the rhetoric? Wtf

My comments were around the fact politicians keep taking about immigration and doing nothing. Rhetoric helping to create the hate. 

Fuck off if you think I’m justifying trumps rhetoric or this murderer. That’s an asshole thing to say.

You equated illegal immigration with mass shootings and I’m arguing that that is misguided and by doing so, you’re indirectly claiming that if immigration reform was implemented, reasons for mass shootings would cease, and by making such a claim, you’re justifying the rhetoric that’s been used. So if somebody wants something to change, all they have to do is commit a mass shooting and blame it on that thing they want changed? I guess nobody remembers the violence against abortion clinics and providers during the 90’s and the rhetoric used by repubs and the right?

hedonist said:

brianlux said:

I agree with most everything those of you above have said.  Some excellent posts here.  I'm just not sure though how much the immigration issue has to do with these mass killings.  My own take on what causes them is:

-not having strict enough gun laws and screening (what cincy said)

-lack of education.  Too many  Americans are not very well educated.  Well educated people are less likely to become mass murderers.

-poor leadership starting at the top.  A racist misogynist makes for setting a poor example.

-lack of hope and inspiration.  The U.S. is severely stymied by ennui, dissatisfaction and little to be proud of or inspired by.

-overcrowding.  It's long been proven that overcrowding leads to social problems.  Overpopulation drives overcrowding.

If those are valid reasons, then the solutions are obvious:

-strict gun laws and screening.

-a focus on quality education and especially, quality educators.

-vote out POS politicians especially You Know Who (I don't even like to use his name anymore)

-find ways to restore hope and inspiration through qualities like sharing, helping, kindness, benevolence, creativity and great leadership

-reducing population.  This starts with better education for women.

For everyone.

tempo_n_groove said:

I had mentioned in a thread a while ago that the white male is the most dangerous thing in the US.  It lead to a discussion of if men are getting a release or they hold in feelings.  It was a good discussion.  There is a long history of it.  The last few years there seemed to be an increase which led to the discussion of why?  Internet, PC, loss of middle class, etc.

To think that the white male domestic terrorist is suddenly a new thing is silly though.  McVeigh was 20 years ago.  That dude that climbed the clock tower was 50 years ago?  Waco and Koresh was 30 years ago?  Manson in the 60's.

mickeyrat said:

this year......

https://youtu.be/C9AXGPo1vvM

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I had mentioned in a thread a while ago that the white male is the most dangerous thing in the US.  It lead to a discussion of if men are getting a release or they hold in feelings.  It was a good discussion.  There is a long history of it.  The last few years there seemed to be an increase which led to the discussion of why?  Internet, PC, loss of middle class, etc.

To think that the white male domestic terrorist is suddenly a new thing is silly though.  McVeigh was 20 years ago.  That dude that climbed the clock tower was 50 years ago?  Waco and Koresh was 30 years ago?  Manson in the 60's.

manson should be in a different category imo.

Because no gun crimes?  He was a white domestic terrorist for sure though.

not because of method. other people committed those murders.

koresh doesnt qualify either.

tell me how each does qualify.

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I had mentioned in a thread a while ago that the white male is the most dangerous thing in the US.  It lead to a discussion of if men are getting a release or they hold in feelings.  It was a good discussion.  There is a long history of it.  The last few years there seemed to be an increase which led to the discussion of why?  Internet, PC, loss of middle class, etc.

To think that the white male domestic terrorist is suddenly a new thing is silly though.  McVeigh was 20 years ago.  That dude that climbed the clock tower was 50 years ago?  Waco and Koresh was 30 years ago?  Manson in the 60's.

manson should be in a different category imo.

Because no gun crimes?  He was a white domestic terrorist for sure though.

not because of method. other people committed those murders.

koresh doesnt qualify either.

tell me how each does qualify.

Manson is easy.  He started his own doctrine and had people brainwashed to do his bidding.  

Same with Koresh.  

You don't have to go out and commit a mass murder to be a domestic terrorist.  

Where does that put Madoff?