I had mentioned in a thread a while ago that the white male is the most dangerous thing in the US. It lead to a discussion of if men are getting a release or they hold in feelings. It was a good discussion. There is a long history of it. The last few years there seemed to be an increase which led to the discussion of why? Internet, PC, loss of middle class, etc.
To think that the white male domestic terrorist is suddenly a new thing is silly though. McVeigh was 20 years ago. That dude that climbed the clock tower was 50 years ago? Waco and Koresh was 30 years ago? Manson in the 60's.
manson should be in a different category imo.
Because no gun crimes? He was a white domestic terrorist for sure though.
not because of method. other people committed those murders.
koresh doesnt qualify either.
tell me how each does qualify.
Manson is easy. He started his own doctrine and had people brainwashed to do his bidding.
Same with Koresh.
You don't have to go out and commit a mass murder to be a domestic terrorist.
Where does that put Madoff?
He wreaked havoc but he doesn't fall under the definition.
glad you brought that up. just by what definition do you make the claim above?
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Does the Dayton shooter count?
What do you think?
What I think is that there is no evidence of ties to Antifa other than the fact that he once reportedly retweeted an Antifa tweet. Is that our standard now?
I think it's a typical reach by the right to link it to Antifa.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
What a shocker that the right wants the Dayton shooter to be leftist, when in fact he's just another misogynist.
wapo reports he was registered Dem in 2012. made many posts with a left pov. and was prob borderline schizophrenic or something close to or similar. unknown if treated for whatever the specific issue(s) he faced.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
What a shocker that the right wants the Dayton shooter to be leftist, when in fact he's just another misogynist.
wapo reports he was registered Dem in 2012. made many posts with a left pov. and was prob borderline schizophrenic or something close to or similar. unknown if treated for whatever the specific issue(s) he faced.
Registering Dem in 2012 means you’re part of Antifa?
I can never read WaPo, with the paywall. If anyone wants to copy the article I’d like to read it.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
While not let the police determine the Dayton shooters motives. One of the first people killed was his sister and her companion...maybe domestic violence.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Shouldn’t defend the behavior of those animals either.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Are you really defending Antifa asshats? I’m not sure whether or not they have killed anyone yet, but they have definitely made terroristic threats, specifically towards El Paso even. They sure as hell are not doing anything to decrease the culture of violence. Fuck them, right along with their White Supremacist playmates. I’d be fine with letting all illegal immigrants in and sending any affiliates of either of those two groups to Guatemala.
During
his senior year of high school, Connor Betts seemed to always have
caffeine pills in one hand and an energy drink in another. He was unable
to sleep, he told his then-girlfriend Lyndsi Doll, because of dark,
animal-like shadows that tormented him at night.
Seven
years after they dated, Doll recalls Betts as a serious and reserved
kid who wrestled with hallucinations and menacing voices in his head.
While
they were in high school, Betts told Doll that he had suffered from
psychosis since he was young and feared developing schizophrenia.
“He
would cry to me sometimes,” she said, “saying how he’s afraid of
himself and afraid he was going to hurt someone one day. It’s haunting
now.”
Wearing body armor and a mask, Betts
opened fire with an AR-15-style pistol outside a bar in Dayton, Ohio,
early Sunday, killing nine people. The massacre, which left at least two
dozen others injured, lasted less than 30 seconds before police shot
and killed the 24-year-old.
Ohio governor holds news conference to discuss Dayton shooting
LIVE
Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine (R) holds a news conference to discuss the
Dayton shooting and his proposals to address “gun violence and mental
health issues.” (Reuters)
Among those killed was Betts’s
younger sister, Megan. Dayton Police Chief Richard S. Biehl said Monday
that authorities may never know if Connor Betts intended to kill his 22-year-old sibling.
“It
just seems to defy believability that he would shoot his own sister,”
Biehl said. “But it is also hard to believe he didn’t recognize his
sister, so we just don’t know.”
Doll said she
liked Betts most when he was with his sister, describing them as close
friends. She remembers him speaking highly of Megan, of her intellect
and kindness. They would gently tease each other and often erupt in fits
of laughter when together.
“They would play off of one another,” she said. “She was the bright, happy soul and he was the dark, more reserved one.”
But
Doll said she always knew that something was “off” about Betts. When
she enrolled at Bellbrook High School her sophomore year, she heard
stories about a “hit list” that Betts had compiled with names of people
he wanted to kill. As she got to know him, her friends grew wary and
warned her of Betts’s tumultuous past relationships. They told her he
had pushed one ex-girlfriend into a roaring river and had screamed at
another while pinning her against a wall.
But
Doll grew to trust Betts as they hung out in the same circle of friends,
and she soon found herself drawn to his quiet charisma.
What we know about the mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio
Authorities say Connor Betts, 24, opened fire in Dayton, Ohio, on
Aug. 4 killing nine and injuring 27. Here's what we know so far. (Video:
Allie Caren/Photo: Jahi Chikwendiu/The Washington Post)
“He was funny, he was charismatic in his own way,” she said. “In school at least, it was always just Connor being Connor.”
They
connected over their shared mental health struggles — she suffered from
anxiety and depression — often turning to each other for support.
But
as their relationship progressed, Doll became increasingly concerned
that Betts was far from normal and desperately in need of professional
help. He talked a lot about the “dark, evil things” he heard in his
head. He would sometimes check out midway through the conservation, when
it seemed like his mind would drift elsewhere.
Biehl,
the police chief, said Betts could have been carrying 250 bullets when
he began his rampage in Dayton’s Oregon district, the maximum capacity
of the magazines he was carrying. Betts carried a pistol modeled on the
AR-15 that fires rifle rounds. He used a 100-round capacity drum,
allowing him to fire many rounds without reloading.
Fourteen
people suffered gunshot wounds, while others were injured when they
were trampled or hit by flying glass as they ran for safety, according
to Biehl.
Based
on recovered shell casings, he said Betts fired at least 41 rounds
before police officers responded, shooting 58 rounds at him near the
entrance to a Dayton nightclub.
Dayton police
spokeswoman Cara Zinski-Neace said Monday that Betts had modified his
weapon so that he could stabilize it on his shoulder while firing. Betts
had a “pistol version” of an AR-15-style rifle, she said, not designed
to be shouldered. But Betts added a brace.
“It
is fundamentally problematic to have that level of weaponry in a
civilian environment, unregulated,” Biehl said, adding that the gun
appears to have been purchased on the Internet and then modified “to
avoid any legal prohibitions.”
Betts had
traveled to the area with Megan and her male companion, parking a few
blocks from Ned Peppers Bar. At some point, Betts left the group and
later opened fire, carrying extra ammunition in a backpack. The man who
traveled there with him and his sister was shot in the lower torso and
remains hospitalized.
Biehl said he has no
information to suggest that Megan or her male companion were aware that
Betts had brought the weapons with him in the trunk of the vehicle.
Candles
burn as part of a memorial at the scene of Sunday morning’s mass
shooting in Dayton, Ohio, U.S. August 5, 2019. (Bryan Woolston/Reuters)
Speaking
at a news conference, Biehl said authorities are still investigating a
possible motive for the shooting but have no reason to suspect the crime
was racially motivated. Betts was white and most of those killed were
black.
Biehl said that the male
companion is cooperating with authorities but that officials don’t know
the exact nature of his relationship with Megan.
Betts
was raised in Bellbrook, a suburb southeast of Dayton. Several former
classmates at Bellbrook High School said he was interested in guns and
frequently harassed female students.
Midway
through Betts’s freshman year, school officials became aware of a “hit
list” of people he wanted to take revenge on, according to classmates,
who said police took him from the school bus one day. He was absent from
school for months afterward, they said.
Sugarcreek Township police declined to comment except to note that juvenile records are sealed when a subject reaches age 23.
Biehl
said he is aware of media reports about the suspected hit list, but he
cautioned that the alleged incident occurred a decade ago.
“We
are clearly exploring every possible piece of information,” Biehl said
on Monday. “I am a little bit reluctant, even if there is such evidence,
to interpret it 10 years later, that it is indicative of what happened
yesterday.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
A former friend of Betts, who spoke on the
condition of anonymity to maintain her privacy, said she and Betts’s
group of friends had a reputation at Bellbrook as “the emo kids, the
outcast kids that the cool kids didn’t really like.” The group of about a
half-dozen people dressed in dark clothing, including Betts, she said.
On
weekends, the friends would sometimes smoke marijuana or drink alcohol,
she said, but most often, they just “hung out and chilled,” making idle
conversation.
That was when Betts would
meditate on “death and dark, morbid stuff,” she said. He also told at
least one member of the group that he sometimes heard disembodied
voices.
Betts also liked to talk about
politics, the friend said. He registered as a Democrat in 2012, and in
high school he would frequently trash Republicans, she said.
A
now-suspended Twitter feed — which included several selfies of Betts
and his family, and referenced growing up in the Dayton area — suggests
far-left political beliefs, concern over climate change and a penchant
for violent jokes.
The Washington Post captured
more than 3,000 tweets on the account, which was created in December
2013 and used the handle @iamthespookster. The owner was an avid and
frequent user of the social media site — before the account was
suspended late Sunday night. A Twitter spokesperson said that the
company removes all “content that violates our policies and will be
engaged with law enforcement, as appropriate” but declined to elaborate
further.
In addition to occasional selfies and
pictures of a Betts family dog, the user often tweeted in support of
policies and programs associated with far-left American politics.
The
user also retweeted posts criticizing capitalism, and at least once
retweeted an item jokingly calling for the “beheading” of oil executives
as a way to combat climate change. A retweeted post that suggested that
people who order a “Twix Frappuccino” or a “Strawberry
Cheesecake”-flavored drink from Starbucks should be choked by the
barista was also on the account, as well as a picture of Gandalf —
photoshopped to make the wizard cradle a rifle — along with the caption
“swords are no more use here.”
The user also
retweeted a post that, along with images of news stories about the
resumption of capital punishment in the United States, among other
things, instructed users of the social media site to “buy a gun and
learn to use it responsibly” because “you may need to protect yourself.”
A
few days before the shooting, the user was riled up about the Equifax
data breach and retweeted a July 29 post reading: “Losing your personal
information in a massive data breach is just a thing that happens now,
like 110 degree days and regular mass shootings.”
Kevin Williams and Arelis R. Hernandez in Dayton and Alex Horton, Julie
Tate, Jennifer Jenkins and Hannah Knowles in Washington contributed to
this story.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Shouldn’t defend the behavior of those animals either.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Are you really defending Antifa asshats? I’m not sure whether or not they have killed anyone yet, but they have definitely made terroristic threats, specifically towards El Paso even. They sure as hell are not doing anything to decrease the culture of violence. Fuck them, right along with their White Supremacist playmates. I’d be fine with letting all illegal immigrants in and sending any affiliates of either of those two groups to Guatemala.
What I am saying is that there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that Antifa has killed anyone, so in my opinion, the two sides are not the same.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Shouldn’t defend the behavior of those animals either.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Are you really defending Antifa asshats? I’m not sure whether or not they have killed anyone yet, but they have definitely made terroristic threats, specifically towards El Paso even. They sure as hell are not doing anything to decrease the culture of violence. Fuck them, right along with their White Supremacist playmates. I’d be fine with letting all illegal immigrants in and sending any affiliates of either of those two groups to Guatemala.
What I am saying is that there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that Antifa has killed anyone, so in my opinion, the two sides are not the same.
no, but the beatings with bike locks can cause lifelong damage. TBI etc....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Shouldn’t defend the behavior of those animals either.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Are you really defending Antifa asshats? I’m not sure whether or not they have killed anyone yet, but they have definitely made terroristic threats, specifically towards El Paso even. They sure as hell are not doing anything to decrease the culture of violence. Fuck them, right along with their White Supremacist playmates. I’d be fine with letting all illegal immigrants in and sending any affiliates of either of those two groups to Guatemala.
What I am saying is that there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that Antifa has killed anyone, so in my opinion, the two sides are not the same.
Of course they are not the same, they both are asshats in their own unique ways...You can be against the actions of both groups without them being “the same”. And the Antifa clowns are lucky none of their members have killed anyone yet, as hitting people over the head with socks filled with padlocks or beating on defenseless elderly people could easily turn into that type of situation...it’s just a matter of time before one of them hits someone too hard. Neither group is doing anything positive for society at this time. I would lump Antifa and Neo-Nazis in with the label of terroristic groups.
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Does the Dayton shooter count?
What do you think?
What I think is that there is no evidence of ties to Antifa other than the fact that he once reportedly retweeted an Antifa tweet. Is that our standard now?
I think it's a typical reach by the right to link it to Antifa.
So CNN is “the right”? That’s where I read it.
I think is pretty obvious that white supremacists are the most dangerous group of domestic terrorists.
I think that extremists of any kind are dangerous though. I think the Dayton shooter is likely not Antifa and making a political statement, but social media hate has allowed his hate to be nurtured and grow.
Really like the plan Pete laid out on this recently.
I'm opposed to all political anarchists, regardless of what end of the spectrum they are from.
With that being said, if you think antifa is as big a problem for America as white supremacists, you really need to seek out better news sources, and while you're at it, bone up on your American history too.
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Does the Dayton shooter count?
What do you think?
What I think is that there is no evidence of ties to Antifa other than the fact that he once reportedly retweeted an Antifa tweet. Is that our standard now?
I think it's a typical reach by the right to link it to Antifa.
So CNN is “the right”? That’s where I read it.
I think is pretty obvious that white supremacists are the most dangerous group of domestic terrorists.
I think that extremists of any kind are dangerous though. I think the Dayton shooter is likely not Antifa and making a political statement, but social media hate has allowed his hate to be nurtured and grow.
Really like the plan Pete laid out on this recently.
No, I'm not calling CNN "the right", I'm saying that there is fairly good evidence that "the right" attempts to promote any ties to the left that they can find for any acts of aggression, and when they can't find them, they make them up, e.g. "false flag operations".
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Shouldn’t defend the behavior of those animals either.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Are you really defending Antifa asshats? I’m not sure whether or not they have killed anyone yet, but they have definitely made terroristic threats, specifically towards El Paso even. They sure as hell are not doing anything to decrease the culture of violence. Fuck them, right along with their White Supremacist playmates. I’d be fine with letting all illegal immigrants in and sending any affiliates of either of those two groups to Guatemala.
What I am saying is that there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that Antifa has killed anyone, so in my opinion, the two sides are not the same.
Of course they are not the same, they both are asshats in their own unique ways...You can be against the actions of both groups without them being “the same”. And the Antifa clowns are lucky none of their members have killed anyone yet, as hitting people over the head with socks filled with padlocks or beating on defenseless elderly people could easily turn into that type of situation...it’s just a matter of time before one of them hits someone too hard. Neither group is doing anything positive for society at this time. I would lump Antifa and Neo-Nazis in with the label of terroristic groups.
"Of course they are not the same" is not what I've been hearing from Trump, from the GOP, and from some people on this board for a while now. Good to have it clarified that we're all on the same page on this.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
A former friend of Betts, who spoke on the
condition of anonymity to maintain her privacy, said she and Betts’s
group of friends had a reputation at Bellbrook as “the emo kids, the
outcast kids that the cool kids didn’t really like.” The group of about a
half-dozen people dressed in dark clothing, including Betts, she said.
On
weekends, the friends would sometimes smoke marijuana or drink alcohol,
she said, but most often, they just “hung out and chilled,” making idle
conversation.
That was when Betts would
meditate on “death and dark, morbid stuff,” she said. He also told at
least one member of the group that he sometimes heard disembodied
voices.
Betts also liked to talk about
politics, the friend said. He registered as a Democrat in 2012, and in
high school he would frequently trash Republicans, she said.
A
now-suspended Twitter feed — which included several selfies of Betts
and his family, and referenced growing up in the Dayton area — suggests
far-left political beliefs, concern over climate change and a penchant
for violent jokes.
The Washington Post captured
more than 3,000 tweets on the account, which was created in December
2013 and used the handle @iamthespookster. The owner was an avid and
frequent user of the social media site — before the account was
suspended late Sunday night. A Twitter spokesperson said that the
company removes all “content that violates our policies and will be
engaged with law enforcement, as appropriate” but declined to elaborate
further.
In addition to occasional selfies and
pictures of a Betts family dog, the user often tweeted in support of
policies and programs associated with far-left American politics.
The
user also retweeted posts criticizing capitalism, and at least once
retweeted an item jokingly calling for the “beheading” of oil executives
as a way to combat climate change. A retweeted post that suggested that
people who order a “Twix Frappuccino” or a “Strawberry
Cheesecake”-flavored drink from Starbucks should be choked by the
barista was also on the account, as well as a picture of Gandalf —
photoshopped to make the wizard cradle a rifle — along with the caption
“swords are no more use here.”
The user also
retweeted a post that, along with images of news stories about the
resumption of capital punishment in the United States, among other
things, instructed users of the social media site to “buy a gun and
learn to use it responsibly” because “you may need to protect yourself.”
A
few days before the shooting, the user was riled up about the Equifax
data breach and retweeted a July 29 post reading: “Losing your personal
information in a massive data breach is just a thing that happens now,
like 110 degree days and regular mass shootings.”
Kevin Williams and Arelis R. Hernandez in Dayton and Alex Horton, Julie
Tate, Jennifer Jenkins and Hannah Knowles in Washington contributed to
this story.
Thanks for posting the article.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Shouldn’t defend the behavior of those animals either.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Are you really defending Antifa asshats? I’m not sure whether or not they have killed anyone yet, but they have definitely made terroristic threats, specifically towards El Paso even. They sure as hell are not doing anything to decrease the culture of violence. Fuck them, right along with their White Supremacist playmates. I’d be fine with letting all illegal immigrants in and sending any affiliates of either of those two groups to Guatemala.
What I am saying is that there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that Antifa has killed anyone, so in my opinion, the two sides are not the same.
Of course they are not the same, they both are asshats in their own unique ways...You can be against the actions of both groups without them being “the same”. And the Antifa clowns are lucky none of their members have killed anyone yet, as hitting people over the head with socks filled with padlocks or beating on defenseless elderly people could easily turn into that type of situation...it’s just a matter of time before one of them hits someone too hard. Neither group is doing anything positive for society at this time. I would lump Antifa and Neo-Nazis in with the label of terroristic groups.
"Of course they are not the same" is not what I've been hearing from Trump, from the GOP, and from some people on this board for a while now. Good to have it clarified that we're all on the same page on this.
I cannot speak for others. They are both the same in that they are both full of violent asshats if you want to go that route I guess...You just came a across as defending Antifa because “they are not the same”, which does not hold much merit in my opinion. If you are not defending them, then I digress.
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Shouldn’t defend the behavior of those animals either.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Are you really defending Antifa asshats? I’m not sure whether or not they have killed anyone yet, but they have definitely made terroristic threats, specifically towards El Paso even. They sure as hell are not doing anything to decrease the culture of violence. Fuck them, right along with their White Supremacist playmates. I’d be fine with letting all illegal immigrants in and sending any affiliates of either of those two groups to Guatemala.
What I am saying is that there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that Antifa has killed anyone, so in my opinion, the two sides are not the same.
Of course they are not the same, they both are asshats in their own unique ways...You can be against the actions of both groups without them being “the same”. And the Antifa clowns are lucky none of their members have killed anyone yet, as hitting people over the head with socks filled with padlocks or beating on defenseless elderly people could easily turn into that type of situation...it’s just a matter of time before one of them hits someone too hard. Neither group is doing anything positive for society at this time. I would lump Antifa and Neo-Nazis in with the label of terroristic groups.
"Of course they are not the same" is not what I've been hearing from Trump, from the GOP, and from some people on this board for a while now. Good to have it clarified that we're all on the same page on this.
I cannot speak for others. They are both the same in that they are both full of violent asshats if you want to go that route I guess...
Interesting that credible, high level law enforcement do not view them as the same, in terms of risk to the US, so I would again disagree with you.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Shouldn’t defend the behavior of those animals either.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Are you really defending Antifa asshats? I’m not sure whether or not they have killed anyone yet, but they have definitely made terroristic threats, specifically towards El Paso even. They sure as hell are not doing anything to decrease the culture of violence. Fuck them, right along with their White Supremacist playmates. I’d be fine with letting all illegal immigrants in and sending any affiliates of either of those two groups to Guatemala.
What I am saying is that there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that Antifa has killed anyone, so in my opinion, the two sides are not the same.
Of course they are not the same, they both are asshats in their own unique ways...You can be against the actions of both groups without them being “the same”. And the Antifa clowns are lucky none of their members have killed anyone yet, as hitting people over the head with socks filled with padlocks or beating on defenseless elderly people could easily turn into that type of situation...it’s just a matter of time before one of them hits someone too hard. Neither group is doing anything positive for society at this time. I would lump Antifa and Neo-Nazis in with the label of terroristic groups.
"Of course they are not the same" is not what I've been hearing from Trump, from the GOP, and from some people on this board for a while now. Good to have it clarified that we're all on the same page on this.
I cannot speak for others. They are both the same in that they are both full of violent asshats if you want to go that route I guess...
Interesting that credible, high level law enforcement do not view them as the same, in terms of risk to the US, so I would again disagree with you.
Well, saying they are not as big of a threat is completely different than actually defending or supporting them. It could be said that MS-13 is not as big of a threat to the US as Antifa, but that doesn’t mean either group brings anything positive to the table...
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
Shouldn’t defend the behavior of those animals either.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Are you really defending Antifa asshats? I’m not sure whether or not they have killed anyone yet, but they have definitely made terroristic threats, specifically towards El Paso even. They sure as hell are not doing anything to decrease the culture of violence. Fuck them, right along with their White Supremacist playmates. I’d be fine with letting all illegal immigrants in and sending any affiliates of either of those two groups to Guatemala.
What I am saying is that there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that Antifa has killed anyone, so in my opinion, the two sides are not the same.
Of course they are not the same, they both are asshats in their own unique ways...You can be against the actions of both groups without them being “the same”. And the Antifa clowns are lucky none of their members have killed anyone yet, as hitting people over the head with socks filled with padlocks or beating on defenseless elderly people could easily turn into that type of situation...it’s just a matter of time before one of them hits someone too hard. Neither group is doing anything positive for society at this time. I would lump Antifa and Neo-Nazis in with the label of terroristic groups.
"Of course they are not the same" is not what I've been hearing from Trump, from the GOP, and from some people on this board for a while now. Good to have it clarified that we're all on the same page on this.
I cannot speak for others. They are both the same in that they are both full of violent asshats if you want to go that route I guess...
Interesting that credible, high level law enforcement do not view them as the same, in terms of risk to the US, so I would again disagree with you.
Well, saying they are not as big of a threat is completely different than actually defending or supporting them. It could be said that MS-13 is not as big of a threat to the US as Antifa, but that doesn’t mean either group brings anything positive to the table...
What has defending or supporting got to do with this discussion? You went back to the "both the same" theme when talking about their propensity for violence, and I'm pointing out that people who know what they're talking about don't think they have the same propensity for violence. I don't see that "bring anything positive to the table" enters in here.
And are you actually saying that you believe that MS-13 is "not as big of a threat to the US as Antifa"? If so, that's absurd, given that they seem to have at least dozens of murders to their "credit", in addition to the other criminal activities.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Comments
I go by the Patriot act.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/04/mass-shootings-white-nationalism-linked-attacks-worldwide?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2LAuYDVrI38sot-kvUlQ14mXSdFf1g7Y5Iy8DNiREx7UEDDemSjnGQlFw#Echobox=1564990341
Just wondering at what point we can lay the “both sides are equally bad” narrative to rest.
The signs have been there for a long time ..
What do you think?
What I think is that there is no evidence of ties to Antifa other than the fact that he once reportedly retweeted an Antifa tweet. Is that our standard now?
I think it's a typical reach by the right to link it to Antifa.
Do you want to answer the question? Have they killed anyone yet or not?
Maybe the two sides aren't the same.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I can never read WaPo, with the paywall. If anyone wants to copy the article I’d like to read it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
During his senior year of high school, Connor Betts seemed to always have caffeine pills in one hand and an energy drink in another. He was unable to sleep, he told his then-girlfriend Lyndsi Doll, because of dark, animal-like shadows that tormented him at night.
Seven years after they dated, Doll recalls Betts as a serious and reserved kid who wrestled with hallucinations and menacing voices in his head.
While they were in high school, Betts told Doll that he had suffered from psychosis since he was young and feared developing schizophrenia.
“He would cry to me sometimes,” she said, “saying how he’s afraid of himself and afraid he was going to hurt someone one day. It’s haunting now.”
Wearing body armor and a mask, Betts opened fire with an AR-15-style pistol outside a bar in Dayton, Ohio, early Sunday, killing nine people. The massacre, which left at least two dozen others injured, lasted less than 30 seconds before police shot and killed the 24-year-old.
Among those killed was Betts’s younger sister, Megan. Dayton Police Chief Richard S. Biehl said Monday that authorities may never know if Connor Betts intended to kill his 22-year-old sibling.
“It just seems to defy believability that he would shoot his own sister,” Biehl said. “But it is also hard to believe he didn’t recognize his sister, so we just don’t know.”
Doll said she liked Betts most when he was with his sister, describing them as close friends. She remembers him speaking highly of Megan, of her intellect and kindness. They would gently tease each other and often erupt in fits of laughter when together.
“They would play off of one another,” she said. “She was the bright, happy soul and he was the dark, more reserved one.”
But Doll said she always knew that something was “off” about Betts. When she enrolled at Bellbrook High School her sophomore year, she heard stories about a “hit list” that Betts had compiled with names of people he wanted to kill. As she got to know him, her friends grew wary and warned her of Betts’s tumultuous past relationships. They told her he had pushed one ex-girlfriend into a roaring river and had screamed at another while pinning her against a wall.
But Doll grew to trust Betts as they hung out in the same circle of friends, and she soon found herself drawn to his quiet charisma.
“He was funny, he was charismatic in his own way,” she said. “In school at least, it was always just Connor being Connor.”
They connected over their shared mental health struggles — she suffered from anxiety and depression — often turning to each other for support.
But as their relationship progressed, Doll became increasingly concerned that Betts was far from normal and desperately in need of professional help. He talked a lot about the “dark, evil things” he heard in his head. He would sometimes check out midway through the conservation, when it seemed like his mind would drift elsewhere.
Biehl, the police chief, said Betts could have been carrying 250 bullets when he began his rampage in Dayton’s Oregon district, the maximum capacity of the magazines he was carrying. Betts carried a pistol modeled on the AR-15 that fires rifle rounds. He used a 100-round capacity drum, allowing him to fire many rounds without reloading.
Fourteen people suffered gunshot wounds, while others were injured when they were trampled or hit by flying glass as they ran for safety, according to Biehl.
[Gunman killed sister, eight others in second deadly U.S. mass shooting in 24 hours]
Based on recovered shell casings, he said Betts fired at least 41 rounds before police officers responded, shooting 58 rounds at him near the entrance to a Dayton nightclub.
Dayton police spokeswoman Cara Zinski-Neace said Monday that Betts had modified his weapon so that he could stabilize it on his shoulder while firing. Betts had a “pistol version” of an AR-15-style rifle, she said, not designed to be shouldered. But Betts added a brace.
“It is fundamentally problematic to have that level of weaponry in a civilian environment, unregulated,” Biehl said, adding that the gun appears to have been purchased on the Internet and then modified “to avoid any legal prohibitions.”
Betts had traveled to the area with Megan and her male companion, parking a few blocks from Ned Peppers Bar. At some point, Betts left the group and later opened fire, carrying extra ammunition in a backpack. The man who traveled there with him and his sister was shot in the lower torso and remains hospitalized.
Biehl said he has no information to suggest that Megan or her male companion were aware that Betts had brought the weapons with him in the trunk of the vehicle.
Candles burn as part of a memorial at the scene of Sunday morning’s mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, U.S. August 5, 2019. (Bryan Woolston/Reuters)
Speaking at a news conference, Biehl said authorities are still investigating a possible motive for the shooting but have no reason to suspect the crime was racially motivated. Betts was white and most of those killed were black.
Biehl said that the male companion is cooperating with authorities but that officials don’t know the exact nature of his relationship with Megan.
Betts was raised in Bellbrook, a suburb southeast of Dayton. Several former classmates at Bellbrook High School said he was interested in guns and frequently harassed female students.
Midway through Betts’s freshman year, school officials became aware of a “hit list” of people he wanted to take revenge on, according to classmates, who said police took him from the school bus one day. He was absent from school for months afterward, they said.
Sugarcreek Township police declined to comment except to note that juvenile records are sealed when a subject reaches age 23.
Biehl said he is aware of media reports about the suspected hit list, but he cautioned that the alleged incident occurred a decade ago.
“We are clearly exploring every possible piece of information,” Biehl said on Monday. “I am a little bit reluctant, even if there is such evidence, to interpret it 10 years later, that it is indicative of what happened yesterday.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
A former friend of Betts, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to maintain her privacy, said she and Betts’s group of friends had a reputation at Bellbrook as “the emo kids, the outcast kids that the cool kids didn’t really like.” The group of about a half-dozen people dressed in dark clothing, including Betts, she said.
On weekends, the friends would sometimes smoke marijuana or drink alcohol, she said, but most often, they just “hung out and chilled,” making idle conversation.
That was when Betts would meditate on “death and dark, morbid stuff,” she said. He also told at least one member of the group that he sometimes heard disembodied voices.
Betts also liked to talk about politics, the friend said. He registered as a Democrat in 2012, and in high school he would frequently trash Republicans, she said.
A now-suspended Twitter feed — which included several selfies of Betts and his family, and referenced growing up in the Dayton area — suggests far-left political beliefs, concern over climate change and a penchant for violent jokes.
The Washington Post captured more than 3,000 tweets on the account, which was created in December 2013 and used the handle @iamthespookster. The owner was an avid and frequent user of the social media site — before the account was suspended late Sunday night. A Twitter spokesperson said that the company removes all “content that violates our policies and will be engaged with law enforcement, as appropriate” but declined to elaborate further.
In addition to occasional selfies and pictures of a Betts family dog, the user often tweeted in support of policies and programs associated with far-left American politics.
The user also retweeted posts criticizing capitalism, and at least once retweeted an item jokingly calling for the “beheading” of oil executives as a way to combat climate change. A retweeted post that suggested that people who order a “Twix Frappuccino” or a “Strawberry Cheesecake”-flavored drink from Starbucks should be choked by the barista was also on the account, as well as a picture of Gandalf — photoshopped to make the wizard cradle a rifle — along with the caption “swords are no more use here.”
The user also retweeted a post that, along with images of news stories about the resumption of capital punishment in the United States, among other things, instructed users of the social media site to “buy a gun and learn to use it responsibly” because “you may need to protect yourself.”
A few days before the shooting, the user was riled up about the Equifax data breach and retweeted a July 29 post reading: “Losing your personal information in a massive data breach is just a thing that happens now, like 110 degree days and regular mass shootings.”
Kevin Williams and Arelis R. Hernandez in Dayton and Alex Horton, Julie Tate, Jennifer Jenkins and Hannah Knowles in Washington contributed to this story.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I think is pretty obvious that white supremacists are the most dangerous group of domestic terrorists.
I think that extremists of any kind are dangerous though. I think the Dayton shooter is likely not Antifa and making a political statement, but social media hate has allowed his hate to be nurtured and grow.
Really like the plan Pete laid out on this recently.
I'm opposed to all political anarchists, regardless of what end of the spectrum they are from.
With that being said, if you think antifa is as big a problem for America as white supremacists, you really need to seek out better news sources, and while you're at it, bone up on your American history too.
No, I'm not calling CNN "the right", I'm saying that there is fairly good evidence that "the right" attempts to promote any ties to the left that they can find for any acts of aggression, and when they can't find them, they make them up, e.g. "false flag operations".
"Of course they are not the same" is not what I've been hearing from Trump, from the GOP, and from some people on this board for a while now. Good to have it clarified that we're all on the same page on this.
Thanks for posting the article.
Interesting that credible, high level law enforcement do not view them as the same, in terms of risk to the US, so I would again disagree with you.
What has defending or supporting got to do with this discussion? You went back to the "both the same" theme when talking about their propensity for violence, and I'm pointing out that people who know what they're talking about don't think they have the same propensity for violence. I don't see that "bring anything positive to the table" enters in here.
And are you actually saying that you believe that MS-13 is "not as big of a threat to the US as Antifa"? If so, that's absurd, given that they seem to have at least dozens of murders to their "credit", in addition to the other criminal activities.