US darling Ronald Reagan called black people "monkeys"
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Well, point to an instance where I have been wrong?cincybearcat said:
Nope. Want the nonsense to stop though. It doesn't have to be all bad all the time about a specific other country.Spiritual_Chaos said:
You want me banned?cincybearcat said:
When he types anything. But he keeps the ability to type. Threads get locked and other people get blamed. It’s nonsense.Ledbetterman10 said:
Whatever. You’re just trying to be an instigator when you title your post like that.Spiritual_Chaos said:
A lot of people in this thread have expressed it shouldn't be reported.Ledbetterman10 said:
No one thinks it shouldn’t be reported. But it’s own thread wasn’t needed. Could have just as well gone in the Republican Party thread. And the snarky “US darling” preface is just you being you.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Not for people in here.Gern Blansten said:Just the term "monkeys" reveals intense hatred. Disgusting
"If a president says it, and another president laughs about it and later replaces monkeys with "cannibals" when retelling the oh so funny anecdote - it shouldn't be reported at all"
Think about that for a second.
Why wouldn't a thread about it be needed - it's two presidents having some racist-fun? One of them actually being a "US darling". "The party of reagan" etc.
Stop being colored by whatever you feel about me when posting. It makes your post come of as silly."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
brianlux said:bbiggs said:I don’t know of any President that did everything right. To be fair, I think Reagan did a lot of good during his Presidency as well. An unpopular opinion in these parts, no doubt. I’m sure I’ll be asked to elaborate. If so, I’ll have to do so at a later time. Just taking a couple minute break while at work.At your leasure, b., but yes, I'd be interested in hearing what you thought Reagan did right.Reagan had fans or partial fans who were not all right wing republicans, including Neil Young:
AMSTERDAM INTERVIEW - 1989
INT: You have been known to support Reagan, which a lot of fans thought you were going right wing, and then I think in Rolling Stone you said you weren't very fond of Bush. I was wondering why you apparently changed political views?
NEIL: Because that's only an apparent thing. I don't have a view, I have an opinion that changes because everyday is a different day. I'm not a liberal or a conservative. I'm not like that. With Reagan, some things he did were terrible, some things he did were great. Most people tend to take a president and say you hate...he does one thing you really don't like. Like he builds excessive amounts of warheads or something. So you write him off completely. Which I think is completely stupid. And I think, is very narrow minded.
Anyone can have an opinion and be right, like you don't want warheads on earth. I agree with that, but that is a decision that he made to do that and I disagree with that. On the other hand there are other things that he did that I agreed with. And because I had the ability to say what I feel, people only write part of it, because its news that I would agree with Reagan. So they say Neil Young supports Reagan, so fuck 'em, I don't care what they do.
I respect the right of others to think he was OK as long as they respect my right to think otherwise (which I would guess you do, bbiggs
)NEIL: I never made, you know, I was never a Reagan supporter in a total blanket sense. I was one of those who felt that some ideas he had were good ideas. He had one point that he was stressing in the first six months of his job that he thought the people in the communities and neighborhoods should pull together and try to do things on their own more than depending on government to do it for them. And I thought that was a hell of an idea and here's this old guy and he's kind of got this image, of this fatherly image, telling all these people in their neighborhoods to pull together and get your own daycare centers happening, and get this and that happening. I thought that was a cool thing, I thought it was a good thing.
I mean that is a very non rightwinged thing to like. Cooperatives, syndicalism, working together and such (where profits sadly doesn't go to the top), aren't very right winged ideas. Which is what I read into Neils talking about and what he supported.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
It’s ironic that he was responsible for not caring about mental health only to be decimated by his own brain , it’s only fitting!jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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I don’t know man. I don’t follow GNR much these days. Although I did listen to Appetite beginning to end on the treadmill last night and it still fucking rocks.Spiritual_Chaos said:
What is there not to follow.bbiggs said:
I don’t follow the question. If you want a question answered, be direct and I’ll answer it. If not, go stir another pot. I have work to do.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Didn't get an answer from you?Spiritual_Chaos said:
Why was Shadow of your Love a story in 2018 when it was recorded in 86-87?bbiggs said:
You keep using that term, yet I haven’t seen anyone apologize for his awful comments. So why do you insist on using that term and painting everyone with a broad brush? Oh yeah...you enjoy stirring the pot. That’s why. Raegan’s comments were terrible. My point is, why is this a story in 2019 when he said it in 1971? We have enough other shit to focus on and fix in present day.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Racism apologists.mrussel1 said:
Historical perspective. Learn something about the academic side.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Sounds like racism apologists to me. What does it matter if it was in 1971? It is still an unheard recording of the President laughing while the then future President is being a big ol´racist.bbiggs said:
Correction. The CA Governor and President in 1971. No one (that I’ve seen) is condoning his comments. I just think most people don’t see how comments from 50 years ago are relevant today.Spiritual_Chaos said:People in here defacto defending and wanting news to not cover the Governor of California calling the President of the USA being racist as fuck and the President laughing.
Amazing.
Talk about regressive.
Ofc its news. Unless one has murky reasons for feeling the need to downplay it.
You stirred this pot you keep referring to by asking, and I quote, "why is this a story in 2019 when he said it in 1971?
And I then I answered with a question back which was, and I quote, "Why was Shadow of your Love a story in 2018 when it was recorded in 86-87?"0 -
Well, if you figure it out - then you will find the answer to your question.bbiggs said:
I don’t know man. I don’t follow GNR much these days. Although I did listen to Appetite beginning to end on the treadmill last night and it still fucking rocks.Spiritual_Chaos said:
What is there not to follow.bbiggs said:
I don’t follow the question. If you want a question answered, be direct and I’ll answer it. If not, go stir another pot. I have work to do.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Didn't get an answer from you?Spiritual_Chaos said:
Why was Shadow of your Love a story in 2018 when it was recorded in 86-87?bbiggs said:
You keep using that term, yet I haven’t seen anyone apologize for his awful comments. So why do you insist on using that term and painting everyone with a broad brush? Oh yeah...you enjoy stirring the pot. That’s why. Raegan’s comments were terrible. My point is, why is this a story in 2019 when he said it in 1971? We have enough other shit to focus on and fix in present day.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Racism apologists.mrussel1 said:
Historical perspective. Learn something about the academic side.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Sounds like racism apologists to me. What does it matter if it was in 1971? It is still an unheard recording of the President laughing while the then future President is being a big ol´racist.bbiggs said:
Correction. The CA Governor and President in 1971. No one (that I’ve seen) is condoning his comments. I just think most people don’t see how comments from 50 years ago are relevant today.Spiritual_Chaos said:People in here defacto defending and wanting news to not cover the Governor of California calling the President of the USA being racist as fuck and the President laughing.
Amazing.
Talk about regressive.
Ofc its news. Unless one has murky reasons for feeling the need to downplay it.
You stirred this pot you keep referring to by asking, and I quote, "why is this a story in 2019 when he said it in 1971?
And I then I answered with a question back which was, and I quote, "Why was Shadow of your Love a story in 2018 when it was recorded in 86-87?"Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
The saintly status that Reagan is held to in some corners is what makes this news, its dispicable, plan and simple. That should be the sentiment, at which point the world would most likely move on.
It is the constant need for one side to defend such bile ignorance which keeps it in the media spotlight.
The consistent enabling of this behaviour is what is creating the fertile soil with which it can grow. If you're immediate reaction to such language is not revulsion then you are most certainly part of the problem.
It seems as though racism holds the same honour now of school shootings, excused, defended and forgotten.
It honestly is becoming impossible not to feel such a constant pang of shame at the society we are harbouring.
Again I will say, our children may never forgive us for the mess we are leaving them.0 -
As if Reagan was and is the only politician that did not take mental health serious...and they still don't
AGive Peas A Chance…0 -
Lot of truth to that.Meltdown99 said:As if Reagan was and is the only politician that did not take mental health serious...and they still don't
A0 -
True, but Rayguns did federally defund “mental institutions” leading them to closure and suddenly having large numbers of mentally ill people with nowhere to go released into the community, resulting in homelessness and crime. And that money went into defense spending on Star Wars and taking the USS New Jersey out of mothballs so it could fire Volkswagen sized shells into the Lebanese hillsides. Anyone remember the marine barracks in Beruit? Stellar foreign policy decision that was.Meltdown99 said:As if Reagan was and is the only politician that did not take mental health serious...and they still don't
A09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Brilliantati©0 -
Reagan's strength was generated by the weakness of the Democrats in the 80s. That's why I say he looked better in the current than looking back.Halifax2TheMax said:
True, but Rayguns did federally defund “mental institutions” leading them to closure and suddenly having large numbers of mentally ill people with nowhere to go released into the community, resulting in homelessness and crime. And that money went into defense spending on Star Wars and taking the USS New Jersey out of mothballs so it could fire Volkswagen sized shells into the Lebanese hillsides. Anyone remember the marine barracks in Beruit? Stellar foreign policy decision that was.Meltdown99 said:As if Reagan was and is the only politician that did not take mental health serious...and they still don't
A
Sorry but it's no coincidence that the two Democrats elected since 76 were both moderate.0 -
Which is where the majority of voting Americans sit in the political spectrum. Sorry, but much of Reagan’s success on the foreign policy front had the framework and groundwork laid by Carter. Reagan sure as hell fucked up Central America and the Middle East though.mrussel1 said:
Reagan's strength was generated by the weakness of the Democrats in the 80s. That's why I say he looked better in the current than looking back.Halifax2TheMax said:
True, but Rayguns did federally defund “mental institutions” leading them to closure and suddenly having large numbers of mentally ill people with nowhere to go released into the community, resulting in homelessness and crime. And that money went into defense spending on Star Wars and taking the USS New Jersey out of mothballs so it could fire Volkswagen sized shells into the Lebanese hillsides. Anyone remember the marine barracks in Beruit? Stellar foreign policy decision that was.Meltdown99 said:As if Reagan was and is the only politician that did not take mental health serious...and they still don't
A
Sorry but it's no coincidence that the two Democrats elected since 76 were both moderate.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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You see all of that in retrospect. That's why you never rate a president truly, until a few years after he (and she one day) leaves office.Halifax2TheMax said:
Which is where the majority of voting Americans sit in the political spectrum. Sorry, but much of Reagan’s success on the foreign policy front had the framework and groundwork laid by Carter. Reagan sure as hell fucked up Central America and the Middle East though.mrussel1 said:
Reagan's strength was generated by the weakness of the Democrats in the 80s. That's why I say he looked better in the current than looking back.Halifax2TheMax said:
True, but Rayguns did federally defund “mental institutions” leading them to closure and suddenly having large numbers of mentally ill people with nowhere to go released into the community, resulting in homelessness and crime. And that money went into defense spending on Star Wars and taking the USS New Jersey out of mothballs so it could fire Volkswagen sized shells into the Lebanese hillsides. Anyone remember the marine barracks in Beruit? Stellar foreign policy decision that was.Meltdown99 said:As if Reagan was and is the only politician that did not take mental health serious...and they still don't
A
Sorry but it's no coincidence that the two Democrats elected since 76 were both moderate.0 -
Reagan did fuck up the middle east. The middle east was fucked as soon as someone gave Israel land...was that like 1947...Give Peas A Chance…0
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That is actually a more complicated issue. Blaming Reagan is an easy, simplistic answer. But there were not only forces from the right which led to this change. The ACLU successfully got rid of involuntary commitment laws. We were no longer able to have people committed that needed it, but wouldn't/couldn't make that determination on their own. So it was a combination of right & left, lack of compassion / compassion, cutting funding / suing over civil liberties that led to this. See the Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act of 1980 for more history there. So it wasn't just Reagan turning people loose on the streets, it was the ACLU defending people from involuntary confinement as well. Many mental institutions closed down in that era due to many factors.bbiggs said:^ Sorry. One more thought. If he did, in fact, dismiss mental health care, I fully agree that it’s shameful."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
Correct. The antisemitism of Europe, even after the Holocaust, led to the problems that continue today.Meltdown99 said:Reagan did fuck up the middle east. The middle east was fucked as soon as someone gave Israel land...was that like 1947...0 -
Good information and a perfect example of how there are often times underlying factors in these things. All of the burden of these types of decisions rarely falls on one person’s shoulders. On a broader scale, it sucks that mental health is not given more attention and care in this country, even in present day.jeffbr said:
That is actually a more complicated issue. Blaming Reagan is an easy, simplistic answer. But there were not only forces from the right which led to this change. The ACLU successfully got rid of involuntary commitment laws. We were no longer able to have people committed that needed it, but wouldn't/couldn't make that determination on their own. So it was a combination of right & left, lack of compassion / compassion, cutting funding / suing over civil liberties that led to this. See the Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act of 1980 for more history there. So it wasn't just Reagan turning people loose on the streets, it was the ACLU defending people from involuntary confinement as well. Many mental institutions closed down in that era due to many factors.bbiggs said:^ Sorry. One more thought. If he did, in fact, dismiss mental health care, I fully agree that it’s shameful.0 -
History is funny, isn't it? I know why Reagan was elected and I voted for him for his first term. It was my first time voting. It was a super easy decision. We had a bumbling peanut farmer who created a malaise in this country. As I high school kid I never thought I'd own a home and worried about affording anything. Inflation and interest rates were both double digits with no relief in sight. There was gas rationing, and long lines to get gas. That isn't something I was happy about as a kid just getting ready to become an adult. So I pulled the trigger for a guy who restored respect and enthusiasm in the country. The country exhibited pride and strength rather than the doom, gloom and weakness that hung over it previously.brianlux said:bbiggs said:
Interesting Neil Young interview there, Brian. Pretty cool. And I absolutely respect your opinion. You’re one of the biggest class acts on the forums, so you definitely get my respect.brianlux said:bbiggs said:I don’t know of any President that did everything right. To be fair, I think Reagan did a lot of good during his Presidency as well. An unpopular opinion in these parts, no doubt. I’m sure I’ll be asked to elaborate. If so, I’ll have to do so at a later time. Just taking a couple minute break while at work.At your leasure, b., but yes, I'd be interested in hearing what you thought Reagan did right.Reagan had fans or partial fans who were not all right wing republicans, including Neil Young:AMSTERDAM INTERVIEW - 1989
INT: You have been known to support Reagan, which a lot of fans thought you were going right wing, and then I think in Rolling Stone you said you weren't very fond of Bush. I was wondering why you apparently changed political views?
NEIL: Because that's only an apparent thing. I don't have a view, I have an opinion that changes because everyday is a different day. I'm not a liberal or a conservative. I'm not like that. With Reagan, some things he did were terrible, some things he did were great. Most people tend to take a president and say you hate...he does one thing you really don't like. Like he builds excessive amounts of warheads or something. So you write him off completely. Which I think is completely stupid. And I think, is very narrow minded.
Anyone can have an opinion and be right, like you don't want warheads on earth. I agree with that, but that is a decision that he made to do that and I disagree with that. On the other hand there are other things that he did that I agreed with. And because I had the ability to say what I feel, people only write part of it, because its news that I would agree with Reagan. So they say Neil Young supports Reagan, so fuck 'em, I don't care what they do.
I respect the right of others to think he was OK as long as they respect my right to think otherwise (which I would guess you do, bbiggs
)
I was just about to turn 8 years old when Reagan’s second term ended, so my views are more based on what I’ve pulled from history than my first hand accounts as a little guy. Although, I do have fond memories of him as President and remember having a sense of pride that he was the leader of our country.
To get to the point though, I give him credit for his part in ending the Cold War, first and foremost. Second, I do think his economic policies had a positive impact overall. He inherited near-record inflation levels and successfully brought them down along with unemployment. Millions (16ish?) of jobs were added on his watch. It was mentioned that he contributed to widening the wealth gap. I haven’t seen the metrics on this, but I’d like to see how that gap stacks up to today. Not just under Trump, but under Obama as well, to be fair. I feel there was more of a middle class in Reagan’s era than we’ve had in the last 10 years.
To sum it up, I think he carried himself with dignity as President (despite the recent comments that surfaced), which doesn’t mean shit for his accomplishments, but it sure beats the alternative of the behavior of the jack ass in office today.Thanks for kind words, b. I often feel like my jerky side shows up to often so I keep trying to be better.What's kind of sad to me about Reagan is that even back at that time, I really wanted to like the guy. He had a nice smile, a warmth to his voice, a pleasantness to his demeanor much of the time. I kind of felt like if he had come from a different time and place and had different influences throughout his life, maybe he would have been someone who truly did do great things. It's like I want to like him in a different dimension or an alternate universe. But his record stands and as a public figure I think he was (at least mostly) a failed leader. But outside public life- who could ask for a better dad or mate?
Looking back, I now have nothing but respect for Carter. He was out of his element as president, didn't understand how to delegate, etc... but he was a good man with a big heart. He has turned into a tremendous statesman and I have the utmost respect for him. History hasn't been quite so kind to Reagan in my opinion. He was clearly suffering from dementia toward the end of his presidency, his trickle-down economic theory (aka Reaganomics) has been shown to be voodoo economics, as his former VP once called it. But I, like you, agree that he was probably a great dad and loving spouse. He was definitely misguided in many ways, and as others have said, we're still paying the price for some of that.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
I would love to see the west pull out of the middle east...we in North America do not need any oil from the middle east...time to move on.mrussel1 said:
Correct. The antisemitism of Europe, even after the Holocaust, led to the problems that continue today.Meltdown99 said:Reagan did fuck up the middle east. The middle east was fucked as soon as someone gave Israel land...was that like 1947...Give Peas A Chance…0 -
I would too, within reason. I want out of economic interests, but not necessarily humanitarian. For example, in the 90s I supported UN intervention in the Balkans.Meltdown99 said:
I would love to see the west pull out of the middle east...we in North America do not need any oil from the middle east...time to move on.mrussel1 said:
Correct. The antisemitism of Europe, even after the Holocaust, led to the problems that continue today.Meltdown99 said:Reagan did fuck up the middle east. The middle east was fucked as soon as someone gave Israel land...was that like 1947...0 -
Well... hmm... I don't think Nixon was picturing Hannibal Lecter when retelling the story.Gern Blansten said:
Yeah give Nixon credit for taking it down a few notches at leastSpiritual_Chaos said:
Not for people in here.Gern Blansten said:Just the term "monkeys" reveals intense hatred. Disgusting
"If a president says it, and another president laughs about it and later replaces monkeys with "cannibals" when retelling the oh so funny anecdote - it shouldn't be reported at all"
Think about that for a second.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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