The Democratic Candidates

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  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656

    Why Bernie Sanders Isn’t Worried About Overpromising | NowThis
    https://youtu.be/HVwtUmn0zJY

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656
    edited July 2019
    Bernie ad. 

    A Living Wage

    https://youtu.be/2m8Ijm4J6_s

    Did she say $8.50 an hour? In Sweden seems the lowest pay in that business would be $14.50. 

    Hard to see why Sanders wouldn't take inspiration from us up here.

    #sanders
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    It is easy for the bernster to promise all that...he might as well promise everyone a million dollars, he is not going to be the Dem nod to rune as president.  Funny how he sits as independent and wants to run as democrat nominee for president...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,394
    Bernie needs to start promising white middle aged dudes a set of golf clubs if elected.  That is the path to the white house.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Meltdown99 said:
    It is easy for the bernster to promise all that...he might as well promise everyone a million dollars, he is not going to be the Dem nod to rune as president.  Funny how he sits as independent and wants to run as democrat nominee for president...
    Plus he'll be dead before the bill comes.  
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    mrussel1 said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    It is easy for the bernster to promise all that...he might as well promise everyone a million dollars, he is not going to be the Dem nod to rune as president.  Funny how he sits as independent and wants to run as democrat nominee for president...
    Plus he'll be dead before the bill comes.  
    True...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,447
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Remember when someone said it was all nice and dandy because he could pay for his MRI scan, so everything was a-ok.



    900 dollars for 5 pills every month. 

    Comparison with other countries:



    Which system has the most compassion for its citizens - one where they just have to spend 350 dollars per capita or one where it is 3 times that amount?

    #Sanders 
    1) Pricing of medications obviously is going to look very different in a country with a private insurance model versus a further socialized model (these being set by the manufacturers). I'd want to know the direct patient spending (i.e. prorated health insurance costs per medication plus co-pays plus uninsured purchases also prorated per capita) for the pharmaceuticals per country (since the graph appears to be showing total spend)
    2) The more esoteric the drug, the higher its cost can be (typical supply and demand economics). Logic would suggest that the larger your population, the greater your odds of encountering esoteric ailments and needing those esoteric drugs, which means the data should be normalized across countries for fair comparisons, or should be restricted to specific standard pharmaceuticals
    3) Logistically, distributing meds across a large country like the US carries a larger cost than distributing over a smaller area like Sweden
    4) The extremely powerful pharmaceutical lobby is a force to be reckoned with, and is likely an inhibitor of change

    I agree with you that it's a flawed system, however I feel it's important to note that the story is more complex than can be meaningfully distilled down to one infographic, and I think it's important to touch on the nuance.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    ^ The other important piece are the patent laws that allow companies to charge higher (recoup R&D) for a period of time before they go generic.  I may be wrong, but seem to think that the US citizens are the ones that essentially pay the R&D that benefits citizens around the world.  I think most countries don't allow those prices to be charged.  But once something goes generic, it's very inexpensive.  All the meds used in my family range between 5 and 15 dollars per month, because none of them are new.  
  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    ^^^  Is the issue really that Americans are just sicker than the Swedes and therefore take more medicine?

    When will a candidate turn to the American people and say, "Take responsibility for yourselves. Quit eating shit, start exercising, drink all your water, quit smoking, get enough sleep, manage your stress -- then maybe you won't be spending so much on medication"?  When will someone turn to the industrial food manufacturers and say "Enough is enough, you're killing people"? At what point will WE demand that Congress stop subsidizing corn, wheat ,and soy to produce all the crap food people are eating, and start subsidizing a sustainable agriculture system that produces a wealth of crops known to be human life-sustaining? When does a candidate run on "Free Gym Memberships for Everybody!!" instead of promising them "Free Pills!!" to keep them alive in their miserable health? 

    Marianne Williamson for President!!

    For goodness sake, let's change the conversation in this country around health care. 
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,960
    I like some of your ideas.... unfortunately 90+% of the country takes no accountability for anything, imo.

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,778
    what dreams said:
    ^^^  Is the issue really that Americans are just sicker than the Swedes and therefore take more medicine?

    When will a candidate turn to the American people and say, "Take responsibility for yourselves. Quit eating shit, start exercising, drink all your water, quit smoking, get enough sleep, manage your stress -- then maybe you won't be spending so much on medication"?  When will someone turn to the industrial food manufacturers and say "Enough is enough, you're killing people"? At what point will WE demand that Congress stop subsidizing corn, wheat ,and soy to produce all the crap food people are eating, and start subsidizing a sustainable agriculture system that produces a wealth of crops known to be human life-sustaining? When does a candidate run on "Free Gym Memberships for Everybody!!" instead of promising them "Free Pills!!" to keep them alive in their miserable health? 

    Marianne Williamson for President!!

    For goodness sake, let's change the conversation in this country around health care. 
    I'm for all of this.  Right on!

    Only, instead of President, I think Williamson should be made the Official Curator of Feminine Divinity.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    edited July 2019
    what dreams said:
    ^^^  Is the issue really that Americans are just sicker than the Swedes and therefore take more medicine?

    When will a candidate turn to the American people and say, "Take responsibility for yourselves. Quit eating shit, start exercising, drink all your water, quit smoking, get enough sleep, manage your stress -- then maybe you won't be spending so much on medication"?  When will someone turn to the industrial food manufacturers and say "Enough is enough, you're killing people"? At what point will WE demand that Congress stop subsidizing corn, wheat ,and soy to produce all the crap food people are eating, and start subsidizing a sustainable agriculture system that produces a wealth of crops known to be human life-sustaining? When does a candidate run on "Free Gym Memberships for Everybody!!" instead of promising them "Free Pills!!" to keep them alive in their miserable health? 

    Marianne Williamson for President!!

    For goodness sake, let's change the conversation in this country around health care. 
    I don't disagree at all, but what of those who have been taking the (supposed) right steps and still get sick?  Those who by the luck of the draw become ill?  People like me who had a hand in their illness (cirrhosis) but are now on a healthier path?  The cost of insurance alone is prohibitive...being out of work and having to pay over $800 *edit - monthly for coverage could be considered pretty stressful.  And the healthy ones whose insurance is still sky-high?  Then factor in dependents, spouse, etc...

    Or simply when life happens.

    These questions aren't for you - or anyone, really - to answer.  I'm not sure there are answers. 

    (Brian, what the hell is an "Official Curator of Feminine Divinity"?  I feel like I'm missing some newfangled buzzword you crazy kids use.) 
    Post edited by hedonist on
  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    hedonist said:
    what dreams said:
    ^^^  Is the issue really that Americans are just sicker than the Swedes and therefore take more medicine?

    When will a candidate turn to the American people and say, "Take responsibility for yourselves. Quit eating shit, start exercising, drink all your water, quit smoking, get enough sleep, manage your stress -- then maybe you won't be spending so much on medication"?  When will someone turn to the industrial food manufacturers and say "Enough is enough, you're killing people"? At what point will WE demand that Congress stop subsidizing corn, wheat ,and soy to produce all the crap food people are eating, and start subsidizing a sustainable agriculture system that produces a wealth of crops known to be human life-sustaining? When does a candidate run on "Free Gym Memberships for Everybody!!" instead of promising them "Free Pills!!" to keep them alive in their miserable health? 

    Marianne Williamson for President!!

    For goodness sake, let's change the conversation in this country around health care. 
    I don't disagree at all, but what of those who have been taking the (supposed) right steps and still get sick?  Those who by the luck of the draw become ill?  People like me who had a hand in their illness (cirrhosis) but are now on a healthier path?  The cost of insurance alone is prohibitive...being out of work and having to pay over $800 *edit - monthly for coverage could be considered pretty stressful.  And the healthy ones whose insurance is still sky-high?  Then factor in dependents, spouse, etc...

    Or simply when life happens.

    These questions aren't for you - or anyone, really - to answer.  I'm not sure there are answers. 

    (Brian, what the hell is an "Official Curator of Feminine Divinity"?  I feel like I'm missing some newfangled buzzword you crazy kids use.) 
    Hedonist, I understand that life happens. I am a thyroid cancer survivor, and other than living in Chernobyl, there is really no other known cause for it besides just bad luck. Great health insurance enabled me to get well for the low, low cost of $1300 out of pocket. I have a best friend who recently died from a rare autoimmune disease after four liver transplants and a new kidney. Thank God for her and her family that she had excellent insurance. This is the essence of insurance. It's supposed to be for unexpected catastrophes.

    Metabolic syndrome, caused by feeding on cheeseburgers and lasagna while sitting in front of the TV over a lifetime, is personal negligence, not an accidental catastrophe. I just looked up the costs of this epidemic and found this:

    "The total cost of the malady including the cost of health care and loss of potential economic activity is in the trillions. The present trend is not sustainable unless a magic cure is found (unlikely) or concerted global/governmental/societal efforts are made to change the lifestyle that is promoting it."  (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5866840/)

    I am not against getting to universal healthcare by allowing people to opt in to Medicare. I am not against the individual mandate and required coverage of pre-existing conditions. I would like very much for there to be price controls on life-saving drugs and for insurance companies to bring premiums and deductibles down. But we will never, ever get there if we continue to excuse people from their responsibility in their exorbitant health costs.           
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    The Juggler said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    You can agree with Biden. 

    Or you can agree with Harris. 

    Or, you can agree with Trump:


    Asked again about busing, Trump says: "It has been something that they've done for a long period of time. There aren't that many ways of getting people to schools."


    King Moron. 
    Technically he is correct.  There are probably 5 ways.  Buses, walking, rides, skateboard, bike.  The dude is playing 3d chess.  You're just not up to the game. 
      jet packs. where are the goddamned jet packs. supposed to have them by now.....

    for space force school......
    https://youtu.be/01qgI5NL5HA
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,778
    hedonist said:
    what dreams said:
    ^^^  Is the issue really that Americans are just sicker than the Swedes and therefore take more medicine?

    When will a candidate turn to the American people and say, "Take responsibility for yourselves. Quit eating shit, start exercising, drink all your water, quit smoking, get enough sleep, manage your stress -- then maybe you won't be spending so much on medication"?  When will someone turn to the industrial food manufacturers and say "Enough is enough, you're killing people"? At what point will WE demand that Congress stop subsidizing corn, wheat ,and soy to produce all the crap food people are eating, and start subsidizing a sustainable agriculture system that produces a wealth of crops known to be human life-sustaining? When does a candidate run on "Free Gym Memberships for Everybody!!" instead of promising them "Free Pills!!" to keep them alive in their miserable health? 

    Marianne Williamson for President!!

    For goodness sake, let's change the conversation in this country around health care. 
    I don't disagree at all, but what of those who have been taking the (supposed) right steps and still get sick?  Those who by the luck of the draw become ill?  People like me who had a hand in their illness (cirrhosis) but are now on a healthier path?  The cost of insurance alone is prohibitive...being out of work and having to pay over $800 *edit - monthly for coverage could be considered pretty stressful.  And the healthy ones whose insurance is still sky-high?  Then factor in dependents, spouse, etc...

    Or simply when life happens.

    These questions aren't for you - or anyone, really - to answer.  I'm not sure there are answers. 

    (Brian, what the hell is an "Official Curator of Feminine Divinity"?  I feel like I'm missing some newfangled buzzword you crazy kids use.) 
    Just some dumb thing I made up, haha!  Williamson is an interesting lady.  She's sometimes intense, she's sometimes marginally metaphysical, she's sometimes airy fairy, and by observing the kind of people who buy her books (just FYI, 95% of whom are women which is partly where my made-up title came from), she's kind of a spiritual guru.  I don't think she has anywhere near the experience to be president (come to think of it, kind of like that current guy in the Oval Office), so I surely can't support her bid for POTUS, but she could sort of be like our Popette-- so I came up with "Official Curator of Feminine Divinity".  But I'm open to other suggestions.  Maybe "Madame Spiritualist" or something.  I dunno. :smile:

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,192
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Bernie ad. 

    A Living Wage

    https://youtu.be/2m8Ijm4J6_s

    Did she say $8.50 an hour? In Sweden seems the lowest pay in that business would be $14.50. 

    Hard to see why Sanders wouldn't take inspiration from us up here.

    #sanders
    Again, who's paying for it?  No thanks.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,778
    mcgruff10 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Bernie ad. 

    A Living Wage

    https://youtu.be/2m8Ijm4J6_s

    Did she say $8.50 an hour? In Sweden seems the lowest pay in that business would be $14.50. 

    Hard to see why Sanders wouldn't take inspiration from us up here.

    #sanders
    Again, who's paying for it?  No thanks.
    Easy to answer (billionaires), hard to achieve (billionaires).
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    edited July 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Bernie ad. 

    A Living Wage

    https://youtu.be/2m8Ijm4J6_s

    Did she say $8.50 an hour? In Sweden seems the lowest pay in that business would be $14.50. 

    Hard to see why Sanders wouldn't take inspiration from us up here.

    #sanders
    Again, who's paying for it?  No thanks.
    19 trillion = USA GDP
    10.2 trillion =15*40*52*327 million
    8.8 trillion = "Left over"

    For reference, 2019 US federal budget = 4.4 trillion
    Total personal income =17.6 trillion U.S. dollars in 2018
    600 = number of billionaires in the US

    It's not that we can't afford it
    Post edited by CM189191 on
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656
    edited July 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Bernie ad. 

    A Living Wage

    https://youtu.be/2m8Ijm4J6_s

    Did she say $8.50 an hour? In Sweden seems the lowest pay in that business would be $14.50. 

    Hard to see why Sanders wouldn't take inspiration from us up here.

    #sanders
    Again, who's paying for it?  No thanks.
    "Working people having a legal right to vacation - NO THANKS!"

    "McDonalds paying a living wage to their employees - NO THANKS!"

    I mean...just a question - where do you get these kind of opinions? Because something is seriously wrong here... like on a basic human level.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,192
    Monday morning reading:
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/15/politics/joe-biden-health-care-plan-obamacare-public-option/index.html

    Biden proposes massive new Obamacare subsidies, public option in health care plan

    (CNN)Joe Biden is proposing massive new subsidies to make health coverage through Obamacare's exchanges cheaper -- as well as a new "public option" that would allow people to buy into a program his campaign says would be similar to Medicare. 

    The former vice president unveiled his health care plan Monday morning amid an escalating fight with his 2020 Democratic presidential foes as some more liberal candidates advocate enrolling all Americans in a national health plan, all but eliminating private health insurance. 
    Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is set to deliver a speech making his case for "Medicare for All" on Wednesday, according to his campaign. And California Sen. Kamala Harris, who has similarly backed a single-payer, government-run health program, teased the upcoming rollout of her plan in front of a crowd in New Hampshire on Sunday, too. 
    Biden, meanwhile, is pushing for a more moderate approach, built on former President Barack Obama's Affordable Care Act. 
      "We should not be starting from scratch. We should be building from what we have. There's no time to wait," Biden told an audience in Dover, New Hampshire, on Friday. 
      He said that under his plan, if "you like your employer-based insurance, you get to keep it." Under other leading Democrats' plans, he said, "you lose it, period." 
      Biden's plan would launch a "public option" that his campaign says would be "like Medicare," with primary care covered with no co-payments.
      His plan leaves unclear some important details about how it would work, including how the plan would be administered and the rates at which doctors and hospitals would be paid -- which plays a crucial role in determining which health care providers would accept patients enrolled in the public option. But he promises to lower medical costs by negotiating lower rates with providers.
      The public option would cover women's contraception and abortion, Biden officials said. Obamacare currently covers contraception at no cost. Abortion services are currently excluded from the 10 essential health benefits that insurers must cover. Insurers may offer coverage of abortions as long as they comply with the requirement to segregate federal funds.
      Biden would also enroll nearly 5 million Americans who would have been eligible for Medicaid under Obamacare's expansion of the program -- but live in states that rejected that expansion -- in the public option, for free.

      Article continues on CNN
      I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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