Mom chases down teen son after he steals her BMW, spanks him with belt on side of road

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjhawks said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what I find funny is thinking that being against violence is somehow equated with "defending this delinquent". it's not defending him. it's not being ok with abuse as a way of solving problems, regardless if it's breaking curfew or stealing a car. 

If i was that parent? I would have called the cops and had my kid arrested. scare the shit out of them, don't beat it out of them. 

I got the wooden spoon a few times in my life. the last time was when I was WAY too old for it. I broke curfew, ironically enough. My dad snapped. never happened again. I would never hit my kids. never. My dad is a great guy, but that's how he grew up. he probably got it way more than he gave it to me. it's just the evolution of punishment. it stops with me. 

It's intellectually and morally lazy to argue that there are no reasonable alternatives to violence in any parenting situation or that violence is necessary to show that the situation is serious. Unfortunately, the fact that this woman is apparently comfortable with having this filmed and posted online suggests that this isn't the first time she's used violence in raising her kids, and when people are okay with using violence, they don't tend to work that hard to find other alternatives. Their kids don't learn to expect anything better, either. Without knowing that specific family it's hard to say what the right alternative is, but there are several good ones. 

13 is pretty young. 13 year olds have barely functioning frontal lobes. This is one of those situations that was being discussed a few days ago - we all did stupid and dangerous stuff when we were young, and most of us got lucky and didn't kill ourselves or someone else. 

I definitely did some stupid stuff when I was young but I think many of us never stole our parent's car.  Don't make excuses for the kid, he definitely got what he deserved.  In fact I think he got off light.  Calling the cops would have been good but then the mother would have had to pay the fines and lawyers fees.  

Who said I'm making excuses for the kid? As per HFD, calling out violence does not equate to making excuses, and no kid "deserves" to get beaten by their parent. 

My bad on that.  However I think in the case the punishment is deserving.  if you look at the video the kid definitely didn't get beat.  

Defending child abuse and psychical assault of a child. 

have you been in a bad mood or something?  seriously i don't remember you being as contentious as you have seem to be the last few weeks.   i mean i don't necessarily agree with McGruff (as i said in my 1st post i'm on the fence about this one) but i don't see the need to insult either. 

Calling them as I see them.

Agree to disagree on pointing out child abuse defending being an "insult".

Peace be with you.

you posted a gif telling him to stay classy. i'd call that an insult.  i don't know, call me crazy.

would verbal abuse have been ok?   as McGruff mentioned calling the cops would have lead to financial issues for the mom with lawyers' fees, court appearances, etc.  

pjhawks said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjhawks said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what I find funny is thinking that being against violence is somehow equated with "defending this delinquent". it's not defending him. it's not being ok with abuse as a way of solving problems, regardless if it's breaking curfew or stealing a car. 

If i was that parent? I would have called the cops and had my kid arrested. scare the shit out of them, don't beat it out of them. 

I got the wooden spoon a few times in my life. the last time was when I was WAY too old for it. I broke curfew, ironically enough. My dad snapped. never happened again. I would never hit my kids. never. My dad is a great guy, but that's how he grew up. he probably got it way more than he gave it to me. it's just the evolution of punishment. it stops with me. 

It's intellectually and morally lazy to argue that there are no reasonable alternatives to violence in any parenting situation or that violence is necessary to show that the situation is serious. Unfortunately, the fact that this woman is apparently comfortable with having this filmed and posted online suggests that this isn't the first time she's used violence in raising her kids, and when people are okay with using violence, they don't tend to work that hard to find other alternatives. Their kids don't learn to expect anything better, either. Without knowing that specific family it's hard to say what the right alternative is, but there are several good ones. 

13 is pretty young. 13 year olds have barely functioning frontal lobes. This is one of those situations that was being discussed a few days ago - we all did stupid and dangerous stuff when we were young, and most of us got lucky and didn't kill ourselves or someone else. 

I definitely did some stupid stuff when I was young but I think many of us never stole our parent's car.  Don't make excuses for the kid, he definitely got what he deserved.  In fact I think he got off light.  Calling the cops would have been good but then the mother would have had to pay the fines and lawyers fees.  

Who said I'm making excuses for the kid? As per HFD, calling out violence does not equate to making excuses, and no kid "deserves" to get beaten by their parent. 

My bad on that.  However I think in the case the punishment is deserving.  if you look at the video the kid definitely didn't get beat.  

Defending child abuse and psychical assault of a child. 

have you been in a bad mood or something?  seriously i don't remember you being as contentious as you have seem to be the last few weeks.   i mean i don't necessarily agree with McGruff (as i said in my 1st post i'm on the fence about this one) but i don't see the need to insult either. 

Calling them as I see them.

Agree to disagree on pointing out child abuse defending being an "insult".

Peace be with you.

you posted a gif telling him to stay classy. i'd call that an insult.  i don't know, call me crazy.

would verbal abuse have been ok?   as McGruff mentioned calling the cops would have lead to financial issues for the mom with lawyers' fees, court appearances, etc.  

What is verbal abuse in this case - singing out a Nickelback song out loud?

Also, understanding neuroanatomy and child development does not equate to “making excuses”. 

pjhawks said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjhawks said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

pjhawks said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what I find funny is thinking that being against violence is somehow equated with "defending this delinquent". it's not defending him. it's not being ok with abuse as a way of solving problems, regardless if it's breaking curfew or stealing a car. 

If i was that parent? I would have called the cops and had my kid arrested. scare the shit out of them, don't beat it out of them. 

I got the wooden spoon a few times in my life. the last time was when I was WAY too old for it. I broke curfew, ironically enough. My dad snapped. never happened again. I would never hit my kids. never. My dad is a great guy, but that's how he grew up. he probably got it way more than he gave it to me. it's just the evolution of punishment. it stops with me. 

It's intellectually and morally lazy to argue that there are no reasonable alternatives to violence in any parenting situation or that violence is necessary to show that the situation is serious. Unfortunately, the fact that this woman is apparently comfortable with having this filmed and posted online suggests that this isn't the first time she's used violence in raising her kids, and when people are okay with using violence, they don't tend to work that hard to find other alternatives. Their kids don't learn to expect anything better, either. Without knowing that specific family it's hard to say what the right alternative is, but there are several good ones. 

13 is pretty young. 13 year olds have barely functioning frontal lobes. This is one of those situations that was being discussed a few days ago - we all did stupid and dangerous stuff when we were young, and most of us got lucky and didn't kill ourselves or someone else. 

I definitely did some stupid stuff when I was young but I think many of us never stole our parent's car.  Don't make excuses for the kid, he definitely got what he deserved.  In fact I think he got off light.  Calling the cops would have been good but then the mother would have had to pay the fines and lawyers fees.  

Who said I'm making excuses for the kid? As per HFD, calling out violence does not equate to making excuses, and no kid "deserves" to get beaten by their parent. 

My bad on that.  However I think in the case the punishment is deserving.  if you look at the video the kid definitely didn't get beat.  

Defending child abuse and psychical assault of a child. 

have you been in a bad mood or something?  seriously i don't remember you being as contentious as you have seem to be the last few weeks.   i mean i don't necessarily agree with McGruff (as i said in my 1st post i'm on the fence about this one) but i don't see the need to insult either. 

Calling them as I see them.

Agree to disagree on pointing out child abuse defending being an "insult".

Peace be with you.

you posted a gif telling him to stay classy. i'd call that an insult.  i don't know, call me crazy.

would verbal abuse have been ok?   as McGruff mentioned calling the cops would have lead to financial issues for the mom with lawyers' fees, court appearances, etc.  

What is verbal abuse in this case - singing out a Nickelback song out loud?

calling him an fn mf'ing no good lil piss ant.  or making sing ABBA

https://youtu.be/WVpkJu56wH8

Spiritual_Chaos said:

benjs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Meltdown99 said:

It's pretty naive if you do not think parents in Sweden have spanked their kids...it's happening.

When have I said that I don't think it happens in Sweden?

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Sweden was the first country in the world to forbid violence against a child (corporal punishment) in 1966.

Just saying.

See above where you continued to brag about the moral superiority exhibited in Sweden compared to the USA. If your government are making laws that you're proud of but you admit that citizens are ignoring the laws that make you proud, maybe your pride is a bit unearned.

Just saying. 

Flawed little yarn you spun there -- but being proud of sane laws not allowing physical assault towards children isn't the same as saying that people don't break laws in a country. Which would be weird to assume. Or be spinning yarns in bad faith. 

I don't know how it works in your country - a law automatically makes criminal activity drop to 0%? That would be impressive. So no murders, or rapes, or beatings at all then?


The US high up in the charts yet again:

The United States has one of the worst records among industrialized nations  – losing on average between four and seven children every day to child abuse and neglect. 

More than 70% of Americans agreed in 2012 that, “it is sometimes necessary to discipline a child with a good, hard spanking.”

Compared to a country who decided to have sane laws regarding this:

According to a survey, the Swedes' attitude to barnaga has changed sharply since the 1960s when a majority (about 55%) of the country's parents were positive to the children's cause and a majority (about 90%) of the country's parents had agate their children, compared with only 10% during the 2000s.


So, since the 60s - in which country has it been safer for kids to grow up in? To not have to endure psychical abuse, from parents or other adults? I think it would be the country deciding it's not okey to hit kids. The first country to do so. So let me be a little bit proud. And ofcourse of all the countries that followed.

I think we have a different opinion on what constitutes abuse, which isn't surprising because I can't even find two definitions of the word that would include or prohibit the same actions. We also have a different opinion on the needs for spanking clearly. I'm sure I'll get backlash for this for a choice of words somewhere in this post, but kids are mentally unsophisticated and highly malleable, and a parent's fundamental responsibility is to act as a steering committee for a child's moral compass. If classical conditioning isn't working with words (aka the unacceptable actions are being repeated), then the impact isn't being felt, and the corrective understanding isn't developed, meaning that a parent is fundamentally failing at their duty.

Would I ever reach for a belt? No - and I also don't know why I feel that way. 

Do I think I deserved a spanking or a smack across the face when I was so clearly out of line and my parents had done everything right? Absolutely (and my parents reserved this for the most extreme of situation, when the vocal/instructive approaches had been exhausted) - and the pain does not linger, but you develop an awareness of the ramifications. 

If you're old enough to have the ability to steal a car from your own parent, you should damn well know better, and you deserve all the embarrassment and shame that comes with being found out. I think she should've dropped his pants and spanked him in front of the world to be honest. 

Now, on a lighter note, here's a great stand-up routine from Rowan Atkinson on the topic.

https://youtu.be/fZMoB6ms2mE

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what I find funny is thinking that being against violence is somehow equated with "defending this delinquent". it's not defending him. it's not being ok with abuse as a way of solving problems, regardless if it's breaking curfew or stealing a car. 

If i was that parent? I would have called the cops and had my kid arrested. scare the shit out of them, don't beat it out of them. 

I got the wooden spoon a few times in my life. the last time was when I was WAY too old for it. I broke curfew, ironically enough. My dad snapped. never happened again. I would never hit my kids. never. My dad is a great guy, but that's how he grew up. he probably got it way more than he gave it to me. it's just the evolution of punishment. it stops with me. 

It's intellectually and morally lazy to argue that there are no reasonable alternatives to violence in any parenting situation or that violence is necessary to show that the situation is serious. Unfortunately, the fact that this woman is apparently comfortable with having this filmed and posted online suggests that this isn't the first time she's used violence in raising her kids, and when people are okay with using violence, they don't tend to work that hard to find other alternatives. Their kids don't learn to expect anything better, either. Without knowing that specific family it's hard to say what the right alternative is, but there are several good ones. 

13 is pretty young. 13 year olds have barely functioning frontal lobes. This is one of those situations that was being discussed a few days ago - we all did stupid and dangerous stuff when we were young, and most of us got lucky and didn't kill ourselves or someone else. 

I definitely did some stupid stuff when I was young but I think many of us never stole our parent's car.  Don't make excuses for the kid, he definitely got what he deserved.  In fact I think he got off light.  Calling the cops would have been good but then the mother would have had to pay the fines and lawyers fees.  

Who said I'm making excuses for the kid? As per HFD, calling out violence does not equate to making excuses, and no kid "deserves" to get beaten by their parent. 

My bad on that.  However I think in the case the punishment is deserving.  if you look at the video the kid definitely didn't get beat.  

Defending child abuse and psychical assault of a child. 

Thank you for your insight mr. sanctimonious.  And remember to please ignore my posts, I honestly have nothing to say to you.  

When did you move to San Diego?  I thought you were NJ forever...lol?

For now I am stuck in dirty jersey but eventually I want to retire in Montana.  (although I don't think wifey is going to go for that lol)

Montana is nice.  Is it the cold or the remoteness that your wife would not like?  Or too far from family?

Too far from family.  We have five kids so by that time I would imagine we'd have a lot of grand kids.  In my perfect world I'd like to go away twice a year in two different locations for about a month each.  That way we would really get a true feeling of what it would be like to live there.  

I'm at the point where I like to say "my parents never laid a hand on me and I turned out fine."

It strikes me that teaching a kid not to do something because he might get hit may make him know he should not do that...but does it make him understand why?  And does it help him draw parallels elsewhere?

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Unless your goal is to raise a kid that fears and hates you. 

i'm on the fence about this. I mean, often times my kids won't bat an eye unless my voice is raised. I know I'll never hit them, but jesus, sometimes I wish they had it in the back of their mind that I might. They might fucking listen once in a while.

My dad raised his voice when necessary and I never hated him. Did I fear him? Maybe a little, but I don't think that's a bad thing. we had a good relationship when I was a kid and have a very healthy and respectful relationship now that we're both adults. we're actually friends that hang out and go to shows and stuff. maybe I'm underestimating what people mean by "screaming at your kids"?

I think there is a difference between raising your voice and screaming, in my view. When you raise your voice the volume is higher and you’re  more forceful but still in control. Screaming implies that the parent has lost control and is resorting to verbal abuse. 

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Unless your goal is to raise a kid that fears and hates you. 

i'm on the fence about this. I mean, often times my kids won't bat an eye unless my voice is raised. I know I'll never hit them, but jesus, sometimes I wish they had it in the back of their mind that I might. They might fucking listen once in a while.

My dad raised his voice when necessary and I never hated him. Did I fear him? Maybe a little, but I don't think that's a bad thing. we had a good relationship when I was a kid and have a very healthy and respectful relationship now that we're both adults. we're actually friends that hang out and go to shows and stuff. maybe I'm underestimating what people mean by "screaming at your kids"?

I think there is a difference between raising your voice and screaming, in my view. When you raise your voice the volume is higher and you’re  more forceful but still in control. Screaming implies that the parent has lost control and is resorting to verbal abuse. 

yeah, that's a fair assessment....