The Democratic Candidates

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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,303
    mrussel1 said:


    It will never make sense why in the US they feel the need to campaign 2 years before the actual election, and what a waste of money donating to a political campaign...
    It's for the same psychological reason why Black Friday now starts a week before Thanksgiving..  or that Halloween decorations are up at Lowes right at Labor Day.  
    Would not surprise me that consumerism and politics go hand in hand in the US.  But as far as I'm concerned people line up to be POTUS so they can line their own pockets...look how much people pay to get to see some crooked president speak...and all US presidents are crooked, Trump just happens to lead the way in crookedness...
  • riley540riley540 Bellingham WAPosts: 914
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,687
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    I what sane world would "hypocrisy" we worse than voting for someone like Trump? How can someone even be a "sometimes Trump" when no one is holding a gun to the persons head and being a "never Trump" can be chosen.




     
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,612
    edited March 18
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    Is there any candidate running yet you would consider more centered? Beto and Biden seem moderate to me. I think Obama was fairly moderate as President. 
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,911
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    I picture this like a game of tug-of-war.

    Centrists produce a marginal pull towards which ever side (left or right) is being underrepresented at any given point in time (so long as their definition of centrist aligns with the masses' definition). They have less people pulling, because they're the silent majority (as centrism tends to be compared to vocal poles). 

    On the extremes, you've got left-leaning parties and right-leaning parties. Both are constantly tracking who's winning the game, trying to tickle (or throw jello at) the other team to keep them distracted, while actively trying to recruit for their own side. Because the sides are so polarizing, the easiest way to recruit people to come to your side of the aisle, or to re-establish commitment to your side of the aisle, is to present ugliness from the other side. Instead of "we treat everyone fairly", which I feel could produce moderatism, we can easier sell with "we aren't the other side - we don't fling poop all day like them!" which expands the divide, and gives people emotional anchors to 'dig their heels into', solidifying their allegiances.

    In this game of tug-of-war, what is it that would seem remotely compelling to "just play a little less", or "just play with a little more empathy for the other guy", or best of all - "fuck tug-of-war, can't we all recognize we share a common goal of the betterment of the nation"? I can't think of anything to get us there, but I hope someone does.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • riley540riley540 Bellingham WAPosts: 914
    benjs said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    I picture this like a game of tug-of-war.

    Centrists produce a marginal pull towards which ever side (left or right) is being underrepresented at any given point in time (so long as their definition of centrist aligns with the masses' definition). They have less people pulling, because they're the silent majority (as centrism tends to be compared to vocal poles). 

    On the extremes, you've got left-leaning parties and right-leaning parties. Both are constantly tracking who's winning the game, trying to tickle (or throw jello at) the other team to keep them distracted, while actively trying to recruit for their own side. Because the sides are so polarizing, the easiest way to recruit people to come to your side of the aisle, or to re-establish commitment to your side of the aisle, is to present ugliness from the other side. Instead of "we treat everyone fairly", which I feel could produce moderatism, we can easier sell with "we aren't the other side - we don't fling poop all day like them!" which expands the divide, and gives people emotional anchors to 'dig their heels into', solidifying their allegiances.

    In this game of tug-of-war, what is it that would seem remotely compelling to "just play a little less", or "just play with a little more empathy for the other guy", or best of all - "fuck tug-of-war, can't we all recognize we share a common goal of the betterment of the nation"? I can't think of anything to get us there, but I hope someone does.
    I agree with what you’re saying. When I look at people running for office, i really try to weigh out the pros and the cons of what everyone is offering. 

    I always say we should Bannish party labels, and just narrow it down to a selection of a few people. Then the party voters would actually have to hear everyone out, and the candidates wouldn’t have to plead he alegence to a group think ideal that they may not really support. 

    A lot of times, you can tell people are supporting something just because the “party” is supposed too. Very evident with the wall situatation. Minus a few. And the late term abortion legislation with the other side. 

    I know deep down all these people aren’t just black and white.. there is a lot of Grey that can’t be shown due to party allegency. And sadly when people just support ideals because they are “supposed” too, I have a hard time trusting said person. And this goes for the right and left. 

    Im thankful for people like Murkowski, my home state senator. Growing up we all thought she was a bit of a snake, but lately she’s been pushing back against her party a bit when she needs too. I just wish there was a bit more of this.  With Romney elected, and McCains daughter having a platform, it’s happenjng a bit more. 

    Sorry for my tangent. In the end, most people vote based on a few issues they deem important. And that’s ok. It’s no secret what the big issues are. Both sides need to work to find compassion in those grounds. 

    A little honesty can win win a game of tug o war, especially in this industry 😉

  • riley540riley540 Bellingham WAPosts: 914
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    I what sane world would "hypocrisy" we worse than voting for someone like Trump? How can someone even be a "sometimes Trump" when no one is holding a gun to the persons head and being a "never Trump" can be chosen.




     
    Sometimes trump is someone who thinks trump isn’t a great guy, but can be open minded when something decent happens because of him. But it’s all subjective on what people find good and bad. 

    Example - I think trying to open a line of communication with N Korea is a good thing for the world. My wife thinks it is the stupidest thing of all time. 

    Other examples - opening the conversation about human trafficking, giving nasa a bit of funding, he just signed a national parks protection bill. 

    And beyond the massive culture war that’s happening, the US is generally doing pretty well right now, as far as people having jobs, wage growth, ect. It could be a lot worse. 

    But yes, I think most sane people can look at him as a person and want to barf. And take a critical stance against some of the policy. 
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,484
    riley540 said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    I what sane world would "hypocrisy" we worse than voting for someone like Trump? How can someone even be a "sometimes Trump" when no one is holding a gun to the persons head and being a "never Trump" can be chosen.




     
    Sometimes trump is someone who thinks trump isn’t a great guy, but can be open minded when something decent happens because of him. But it’s all subjective on what people find good and bad. 

    Example - I think trying to open a line of communication with N Korea is a good thing for the world. My wife thinks it is the stupidest thing of all time. 

    Other examples - opening the conversation about human trafficking, giving nasa a bit of funding, he just signed a national parks protection bill. 

    And beyond the massive culture war that’s happening, the US is generally doing pretty well right now, as far as people having jobs, wage growth, ect. It could be a lot worse. 

    But yes, I think most sane people can look at him as a person and want to barf. And take a critical stance against some of the policy. 
    If what’s most important to you is money, then sure, the US is doing fine right now. It’s telling to see who views this as the most important marker of “doing pretty well”. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,512
    Hi! said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    Is there any candidate running yet you would consider more centered? Beto and Biden seem moderate to me. I think Obama was fairly moderate as President. 


    Riley underscores the huge problem Democrats have. In a world where Hillary was painted as a lefty socialist by the right wing and echoed by the MSM, we have a problem with the accuracy of truth in the US.  

    Sanders and Warren are the major true progressives in the race. That's it. In addition to Biden and Beto, Klobacher and Booker are also moderates.

    Booker is a supporter of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Amy does not support Green New Deal nor Medicare-for-All nor tuition-free four year college.

    2 of these 3 items already exist  for citizens of many countries.

    But in a nation as wealthy as the US, we simply "can't afford it."

    That's how biased "main stream media" is towards the right wing talking points.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,484
    Hi! said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    Is there any candidate running yet you would consider more centered? Beto and Biden seem moderate to me. I think Obama was fairly moderate as President. 


    Riley underscores the huge problem Democrats have. In a world where Hillary was painted as a lefty socialist by the right wing and echoed by the MSM, we have a problem with the accuracy of truth in the US.  

    Sanders and Warren are the major true progressives in the race. That's it. In addition to Biden and Beto, Klobacher and Booker are also moderates.

    Booker is a supporter of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Amy does not support Green New Deal nor Medicare-for-All nor tuition-free four year college.

    2 of these 3 items already exist  for citizens of many countries.

    But in a nation as wealthy as the US, we simply "can't afford it."

    That's how biased "main stream media" is towards the right wing talking points.

    I completely agree, and it's a point that's been made in the past by citizens of other countries. What the US views as "far left" is pretty centrist in most western democratic countries. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,176
    Hi! said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    Is there any candidate running yet you would consider more centered? Beto and Biden seem moderate to me. I think Obama was fairly moderate as President. 


    Riley underscores the huge problem Democrats have. In a world where Hillary was painted as a lefty socialist by the right wing and echoed by the MSM, we have a problem with the accuracy of truth in the US.  

    Sanders and Warren are the major true progressives in the race. That's it. In addition to Biden and Beto, Klobacher and Booker are also moderates.

    Booker is a supporter of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Amy does not support Green New Deal nor Medicare-for-All nor tuition-free four year college.

    2 of these 3 items already exist  for citizens of many countries.

    But in a nation as wealthy as the US, we simply "can't afford it."

    That's how biased "main stream media" is towards the right wing talking points.

    I completely agree, and it's a point that's been made in the past by citizens of other countries. What the US views as "far left" is pretty centrist in most western democratic countries. 
    Yang came on TV this morning and advocated that every American should get 1,000 per month, regardless of economic condition,  etc. Is that centrist in most western democracies?
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,484
    mrussel1 said:
    Hi! said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    Is there any candidate running yet you would consider more centered? Beto and Biden seem moderate to me. I think Obama was fairly moderate as President. 


    Riley underscores the huge problem Democrats have. In a world where Hillary was painted as a lefty socialist by the right wing and echoed by the MSM, we have a problem with the accuracy of truth in the US.  

    Sanders and Warren are the major true progressives in the race. That's it. In addition to Biden and Beto, Klobacher and Booker are also moderates.

    Booker is a supporter of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Amy does not support Green New Deal nor Medicare-for-All nor tuition-free four year college.

    2 of these 3 items already exist  for citizens of many countries.

    But in a nation as wealthy as the US, we simply "can't afford it."

    That's how biased "main stream media" is towards the right wing talking points.

    I completely agree, and it's a point that's been made in the past by citizens of other countries. What the US views as "far left" is pretty centrist in most western democratic countries. 
    Yang came on TV this morning and advocated that every American should get 1,000 per month, regardless of economic condition,  etc. Is that centrist in most western democracies?

    Many countries and regions are talking about UBI. It's been discussed in these pages so shouldn't be a surprise. It's been piloted in Ontario; sadly, the new conservative government of that province ended the pilot before it was complete, thus ensuring no useful data was gained, a not-surprisingly anti-science stance. Finland and the Netherlands are currently piloting UBI, while the Scottish government has committed funds for a UBI trial and are drafting the terms now. Apparently Greece, Italy and Spain are discussing basic income programs.

    So even your fairly cherry-picked example isn't viewed as particularly unusual, though it's not what I was responding directly to.  
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,687
    edited March 18
    riley540 said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    I what sane world would "hypocrisy" we worse than voting for someone like Trump? How can someone even be a "sometimes Trump" when no one is holding a gun to the persons head and being a "never Trump" can be chosen.




     
    Sometimes trump is someone who thinks trump isn’t a great guy, but can be open minded when something decent happens because of him. But it’s all subjective on what people find good and bad. 

    Example - I think trying to open a line of communication with N Korea is a good thing for the world. My wife thinks it is the stupidest thing of all time. 

    Other examples - opening the conversation about human trafficking, giving nasa a bit of funding, he just signed a national parks protection bill. 

    And beyond the massive culture war that’s happening, the US is generally doing pretty well right now, as far as people having jobs, wage growth, ect. It could be a lot worse. 

    But yes, I think most sane people can look at him as a person and want to barf. And take a critical stance against some of the policy. 
    But then you would be Sometimes Adolf Hitler because he built the Autobahn? Or Sometimes The Emperor because he pays the guy who makes his black robes? Sometimes Freddy Krueger because he didn't pray on his own daughter?

    It's a drop in the ocean of the shit. At least be "Once in a full Moon" Trump.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,176
    mrussel1 said:
    Hi! said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    Is there any candidate running yet you would consider more centered? Beto and Biden seem moderate to me. I think Obama was fairly moderate as President. 


    Riley underscores the huge problem Democrats have. In a world where Hillary was painted as a lefty socialist by the right wing and echoed by the MSM, we have a problem with the accuracy of truth in the US.  

    Sanders and Warren are the major true progressives in the race. That's it. In addition to Biden and Beto, Klobacher and Booker are also moderates.

    Booker is a supporter of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Amy does not support Green New Deal nor Medicare-for-All nor tuition-free four year college.

    2 of these 3 items already exist  for citizens of many countries.

    But in a nation as wealthy as the US, we simply "can't afford it."

    That's how biased "main stream media" is towards the right wing talking points.

    I completely agree, and it's a point that's been made in the past by citizens of other countries. What the US views as "far left" is pretty centrist in most western democratic countries. 
    Yang came on TV this morning and advocated that every American should get 1,000 per month, regardless of economic condition,  etc. Is that centrist in most western democracies?

    Many countries and regions are talking about UBI. It's been discussed in these pages so shouldn't be a surprise. It's been piloted in Ontario; sadly, the new conservative government of that province ended the pilot before it was complete, thus ensuring no useful data was gained, a not-surprisingly anti-science stance. Finland and the Netherlands are currently piloting UBI, while the Scottish government has committed funds for a UBI trial and are drafting the terms now. Apparently Greece, Italy and Spain are discussing basic income programs.

    So even your fairly cherry-picked example isn't viewed as particularly unusual, though it's not what I was responding directly to.  
    Fairly cherry picked? He was on TV this morning talking about it, on MSNBC.  And yet there's no evidence of it working so far.  But sure,  cherry pick. 
    So you name some "far left" policies espoused by candidates that are centrist across Europe? And single payer isn't far left,  nor is Medicare for all.  Fair warning,  anything you say I will declare as cherry picked, since that's what examples are by definition. 
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,579
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Hi! said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    Is there any candidate running yet you would consider more centered? Beto and Biden seem moderate to me. I think Obama was fairly moderate as President. 


    Riley underscores the huge problem Democrats have. In a world where Hillary was painted as a lefty socialist by the right wing and echoed by the MSM, we have a problem with the accuracy of truth in the US.  

    Sanders and Warren are the major true progressives in the race. That's it. In addition to Biden and Beto, Klobacher and Booker are also moderates.

    Booker is a supporter of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Amy does not support Green New Deal nor Medicare-for-All nor tuition-free four year college.

    2 of these 3 items already exist  for citizens of many countries.

    But in a nation as wealthy as the US, we simply "can't afford it."

    That's how biased "main stream media" is towards the right wing talking points.

    I completely agree, and it's a point that's been made in the past by citizens of other countries. What the US views as "far left" is pretty centrist in most western democratic countries. 
    Yang came on TV this morning and advocated that every American should get 1,000 per month, regardless of economic condition,  etc. Is that centrist in most western democracies?

    Many countries and regions are talking about UBI. It's been discussed in these pages so shouldn't be a surprise. It's been piloted in Ontario; sadly, the new conservative government of that province ended the pilot before it was complete, thus ensuring no useful data was gained, a not-surprisingly anti-science stance. Finland and the Netherlands are currently piloting UBI, while the Scottish government has committed funds for a UBI trial and are drafting the terms now. Apparently Greece, Italy and Spain are discussing basic income programs.

    So even your fairly cherry-picked example isn't viewed as particularly unusual, though it's not what I was responding directly to.  
    Fairly cherry picked? He was on TV this morning talking about it, on MSNBC.  And yet there's no evidence of it working so far.  But sure,  cherry pick. 
    So you name some "far left" policies espoused by candidates that are centrist across Europe? And single payer isn't far left,  nor is Medicare for all.  Fair warning,  anything you say I will declare as cherry picked, since that's what examples are by definition. 
    Single payer most definitely is described as far left by the right and most media in America so I don't really understand what your getting at.

    And it does look like cherry picking when you are bringing up one policy from a not serious candidate. As a side I like Yang but he doesn't stand a chance.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,484
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Hi! said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    Is there any candidate running yet you would consider more centered? Beto and Biden seem moderate to me. I think Obama was fairly moderate as President. 


    Riley underscores the huge problem Democrats have. In a world where Hillary was painted as a lefty socialist by the right wing and echoed by the MSM, we have a problem with the accuracy of truth in the US.  

    Sanders and Warren are the major true progressives in the race. That's it. In addition to Biden and Beto, Klobacher and Booker are also moderates.

    Booker is a supporter of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Amy does not support Green New Deal nor Medicare-for-All nor tuition-free four year college.

    2 of these 3 items already exist  for citizens of many countries.

    But in a nation as wealthy as the US, we simply "can't afford it."

    That's how biased "main stream media" is towards the right wing talking points.

    I completely agree, and it's a point that's been made in the past by citizens of other countries. What the US views as "far left" is pretty centrist in most western democratic countries. 
    Yang came on TV this morning and advocated that every American should get 1,000 per month, regardless of economic condition,  etc. Is that centrist in most western democracies?

    Many countries and regions are talking about UBI. It's been discussed in these pages so shouldn't be a surprise. It's been piloted in Ontario; sadly, the new conservative government of that province ended the pilot before it was complete, thus ensuring no useful data was gained, a not-surprisingly anti-science stance. Finland and the Netherlands are currently piloting UBI, while the Scottish government has committed funds for a UBI trial and are drafting the terms now. Apparently Greece, Italy and Spain are discussing basic income programs.

    So even your fairly cherry-picked example isn't viewed as particularly unusual, though it's not what I was responding directly to.  
    Fairly cherry picked? He was on TV this morning talking about it, on MSNBC.  And yet there's no evidence of it working so far.  But sure,  cherry pick. 
    So you name some "far left" policies espoused by candidates that are centrist across Europe? And single payer isn't far left,  nor is Medicare for all.  Fair warning,  anything you say I will declare as cherry picked, since that's what examples are by definition. 

    "Cherry picked" because it wasn't among those being discussed in the example I responded to.

    And it doesn't matter what the evidence for or against UBI is so far; you were asking if it would be viewed as centrist, and I'm saying that yes, it would, in lots of places. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,176
    dignin said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Hi! said:
    riley540 said:
    I was hoping some more centered people would run. I just think the left is going too far left. 

    I consider myself self a sometimes trump, as in I can aknowledge the good stuff, but am fully aware of the bad stuff he does. 

    Without diving too far into it, (I don’t share my policy opinions) my biggest gripe is hypocracy. I feel like the far left elite can talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. 

    Trump is a vile, pompous, ass hat who is mega rich and a total dick.. and he totally owns that and doesn’t hide it. I think trump is easily walking into a second term at this point. 
    Is there any candidate running yet you would consider more centered? Beto and Biden seem moderate to me. I think Obama was fairly moderate as President. 


    Riley underscores the huge problem Democrats have. In a world where Hillary was painted as a lefty socialist by the right wing and echoed by the MSM, we have a problem with the accuracy of truth in the US.  

    Sanders and Warren are the major true progressives in the race. That's it. In addition to Biden and Beto, Klobacher and Booker are also moderates.

    Booker is a supporter of Wall Street and Big Pharma. Amy does not support Green New Deal nor Medicare-for-All nor tuition-free four year college.

    2 of these 3 items already exist  for citizens of many countries.

    But in a nation as wealthy as the US, we simply "can't afford it."

    That's how biased "main stream media" is towards the right wing talking points.

    I completely agree, and it's a point that's been made in the past by citizens of other countries. What the US views as "far left" is pretty centrist in most western democratic countries. 
    Yang came on TV this morning and advocated that every American should get 1,000 per month, regardless of economic condition,  etc. Is that centrist in most western democracies?

    Many countries and regions are talking about UBI. It's been discussed in these pages so shouldn't be a surprise. It's been piloted in Ontario; sadly, the new conservative government of that province ended the pilot before it was complete, thus ensuring no useful data was gained, a not-surprisingly anti-science stance. Finland and the Netherlands are currently piloting UBI, while the Scottish government has committed funds for a UBI trial and are drafting the terms now. Apparently Greece, Italy and Spain are discussing basic income programs.

    So even your fairly cherry-picked example isn't viewed as particularly unusual, though it's not what I was responding directly to.  
    Fairly cherry picked? He was on TV this morning talking about it, on MSNBC.  And yet there's no evidence of it working so far.  But sure,  cherry pick. 
    So you name some "far left" policies espoused by candidates that are centrist across Europe? And single payer isn't far left,  nor is Medicare for all.  Fair warning,  anything you say I will declare as cherry picked, since that's what examples are by definition. 
    Single payer most definitely is described as far left by the right and most media in America so I don't really understand what your getting at.

    And it does look like cherry picking when you are bringing up one policy from a not serious candidate. As a side I like Yang but he doesn't stand a chance.
    Well isn't that the point? He's not a serious candidate and he's bringing up a far left policy, aren't those two things connected in some ways? And just because the right wing describes it as such,  doesn't make it so.  They do the same for Obsmacare but it must clearly is mainstream. 
     
    What Im getting at is the futility of making single paragraphs that seek to encapsulate the opinions of 300 million Americans of different faiths,  history,  economic status,  sexuality,  and origin. It frankly bugs the shit out of me when people try that, and I'll argue against my own positions to challenge the statements. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,176
    Sorry for the typos.  On a plane,  on a phone,  and trying to edit a presentation at the same time. 
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,612
    Is there any connection between UBI and money Native Americans recieve or oil money distributed in Alaska? I was under impression Alaskan residents receive some sort of money from oil revenues. I also thought Native Americans recieve some sort of cash payments. Is that kind of the same thing?
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,176
    Hi! said:
    Is there any connection between UBI and money Native Americans recieve or oil money distributed in Alaska? I was under impression Alaskan residents receive some sort of money from oil revenues. I also thought Native Americans recieve some sort of cash payments. Is that kind of the same thing?
    The Alaska thing is BS. It's a subsidy by the govt so people will move to Alaska and work in the oil industry.  The oil companies should pay it,  but evidently it's in the "national interest".
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,512
    edited March 18
    mrussel1 said:
    Sorry for the typos.  On a plane,  on a phone,  and trying to edit a presentation at the same time. 

    I think it's fair to point out, with so many candidates, we are going to get many different viewpoints. I think UBI is a mission of Mr. Yang and not the party in general. If he rises into the top 5 or 7, then it would be a fairer argument.

    If you are looking for moderates, Beto, only 7 years ago, was in favor of lowering social security benefits. That's to the right of Trump.

    Does that count towards a moderate major Dem candidate?
    Post edited by Lerxst1992 on
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,176
    mrussel1 said:
    Sorry for the typos.  On a plane,  on a phone,  and trying to edit a presentation at the same time. 

    I think it's fair to point out, with so many candidates, we are going to get many different viewpoints. I think UBI is a mission of Mr. Yang and not the party in general. If he rises into the top 5 or 7, then it would be a fairer argument.

    If you are looking for moderates, Beto, only 7 years ago, was in favor of lowering social security benefits. That's to the right of Trump.

    Does that count towards a moderate major Dem candidate?
    Obama was against gay marriage in that same time that you're pointing out Beto.  Today's position is more important than two cycles ago.  People change.  
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 14,176
    mrussel1 said:
    Sorry for the typos.  On a plane,  on a phone,  and trying to edit a presentation at the same time. 

    I think it's fair to point out, with so many candidates, we are going to get many different viewpoints. I think UBI is a mission of Mr. Yang and not the party in general. If he rises into the top 5 or 7, then it would be a fairer argument.

    If you are looking for moderates, Beto, only 7 years ago, was in favor of lowering social security benefits. That's to the right of Trump.

    Does that count towards a moderate major Dem candidate?
    Now if one stated that,  as rule over the last 50 years,  the US has been slower to adopt social progress changes than European counterparts,  then I would agree with that statement because it's empirically provable,  and doesn't seek to paint all of us with one brush. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,901
    OnWis97 said:
    Hi! said:
    Buttigieg is a fucking pro. If he wasn’t gay I would put money on him to win. He is a far superior communicator than any of the others Imo. Am I wrong in thinking his sexuality is going too hurt him?  My main issue is electability right now. I watched the town hall finally last night and was surprised to find out he was a war veteran. 
    My first thought was that being gay would hurt him. But then I thought...how many of the people that it’s s problem for are likely to vote against trump to begin with? 

    I dont know the answer 
    I think the impact on the traditional image of the First Lady would be enough to sink him.  While the crazy bigots probably wouldn’t vote Dem either way, my guess is there are a lot of people that are OK with the idea of gay co-workers and neighbors would have a hard time making this leap.
    Yeah, I bet that would be a big leap for some.
    If Ireland can make the leap, so can America.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,790
    mrussel1 said:


    It will never make sense why in the US they feel the need to campaign 2 years before the actual election, and what a waste of money donating to a political campaign...
    It's for the same psychological reason why Black Friday now starts a week before Thanksgiving..  or that Halloween decorations are up at Lowes right at Labor Day.  
    Eventually we will all just lose a year and call it even, lol.

    I think it's due to a massive epidemic of ADHD combined with a serious lack of understanding or acceptance of the concept of delayed gratification.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong... wrong,
    Wrong wrong wrong."
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,612
    Watching the Warren town hall. That Native American thing is going to follow her forever and it makes me sad. She doing so well with the questions and being relatable, but it’s brought up every time and it’s a buzzkill.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,790
    Hi! said:
    Watching the Warren town hall. That Native American thing is going to follow her forever and it makes me sad. She doing so well with the questions and being relatable, but it’s brought up every time and it’s a buzzkill.
    That people keep bringing up such a non-topic sounds like a form of trolling.  Those people need to find something better to do with their time.  If I were Warren I would say this, "Look, we've been over this enough already.  I'm sorry, but from here on out I will ignore that kind of question.  Please ask something more relevant."
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong... wrong,
    Wrong wrong wrong."
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    I think it's very relevant
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,612
    edited March 19
    I suppose it’s relevent. I also think people deserve “ a path to redemption”. She apologized and I can appreciate that. She also said she was told these things growing up. Do any of us know what she was told growing up? It is important to ask the candidates these questions because we know these are the things Trump will be trolling on during the election. Betos dui, Warrens Native American thing ect. You know, the important stuff. Anyway, I think Warren is a good lady and Massachusetts she be proud to have her as Senator. I don’t think she’ll get the nomination.
    Post edited by Hi! on
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,612
    The issue of reparations seems to be a hot topic. I think this is very controversial and am nervous so much discussion on this is going to backfire. Every candidate is asked about it now it seems. We obviously have heard about this time to time, but never so much as we’ve heard lately. Any thoughts on this? I’m all for doing what we can do to help lift up the African American community through different policy proposals, but the idea of cash payments is something I think is gonna turn people off. It would be funny to hear Trump have to answear a question on reparations. 
This discussion has been closed.