Guys I posted this after the Seattle show. I know this is a different deal then what happened at Wrigley 2, but there has been a lot of hating on people that choose to camp out and be up front on a continual basis in this thread. So please read this for a different perspective.
To those who mock "us people" who sleep out for the front spots etc.. I
just wanted to share some of the perspective of why we do what we do.
My
wife flew out Sunday and camped out three nights for the first show. I
followed the next morning and camped out for two. We entered separately
as was appropriate for our separate arrival. We met up inside and
enjoyed the show together. We both went right from the night one show
and got in line for the Friday show. We have been to Seattle before and
done most of the tourist stuff. We were there for Pearl Jam concerts. We
have camped out many times before so we are pretty good at keeping
ourselves comfortable while on line. We have a suitcase that contains a
tent, mattress, air pump, and two sleeping bags.
The people we
meet from all over the world, and the old friends we get to spend time
with are part of the amazing experiences we have. We were on the rail
both nights. Night one we were on the rail one spot to the left of dead
center, and night two we were on the rail one spot to the right of dead
center. Our desire to be up there is not to beg for tambourines or
guitar picks or to make signs. It is to have a clear view of watching
our favorite band in the world perform like they are in our living room.Not a single obstruction, to be able to focus on the music with the
most dedicated, and generous fans on this planet. I could look over the
rail and turn my head and see 20 people in either direction that I know
their names and their stories of where they come from. We have talked
intimately until late at night and forged bonds we will have for a
lifetime. We have shared a common love and dedication for this band that
is not more or less than anyone else out of the other 47,000 people,
but it is different. We all shared an experience together. The sense of
community and camaraderie is something that is beyond special.
The
slightly sore and somewhat fatigued state that the camping out will
bring is instantly relieved by the first note of magic. I had more
energy, enthusiasm and passion then I ever feel when I am in a "seat".
Somehow there is a feeling of satisfaction you get after a long hard
days work. nothing feels better then getting home after you have been
working hard all day and then you are rewarded with whatever it is that
brings you the most comfort and joy.
I have done this before
and will do it again without hesitation when the opportunity permits. I
understand It is not for everyone, but for these particular fans it is
the most fulfilling way to enjoy the entire experience.
To all
all my old friends and the new friends we made, I thank you all for
enriching our time together and we will see you again soon.
Steve D
Just don't have your name on any list, and don't harass other people or generally act like an entitled douche in the line or on the rail, like many on the rail are known to do (hopefully you're not one of them), and I have no judgement whatsoever about people who wait a long time to get the rail. I don't really get the desire to wait in a line that long, but I still don't judge those who want to do that if they're following the rules and being cool. I know people tease about it, but I feel like it's lighthearted when it comes simply to people choosing to wait. The problem is the bad behaviour that reflects badly on so many on the rail, not the waiting itself. And I never see anyone from the rail acknowledge any of that terrible behaviour. Literally never. If anyone has, please show me the way, because it sure would be refreshing. I get the impression that the rail crew will just defend any of the other rail crew no matter what, because as a group they help each other get to the rail. FWIW, I'm sure everyone knows that not every single person who happens to be on the the rail is a jerk. I think people recognize that there are problem people, and then there are just innocents that decided to line up with them, lol. I do wish every single person who waits in these lines to get the rail would actually stay true to 10C's rule about the list though, and would shut down anyone who tries it. I have yet to see any evidence that those on the rail do that, but I'll be happy to see any.
I have been in 25 Pearl Jam GA Lines in my life. Only once was there a designated list that was written numbers on peoples hands. That was in Mexico City in 2015. Other than that NONE. I agree there are factions among the GA people that have a "pack mentality" and are not the most savory people. In my experience there are many more kind, generous fans that are there to be fair to others and enjoy their experience to their fullest.
Unfortunately I think with the 7:00am line up and the weather issues this was an anomaly to the normal GA experience. From my perspective there will be many people willing to join the line prior to 7am at any PJ show. Having a situation where you all run to the front of the line at 6:59 and 59 seconds doesn't make for a good recipe. You want to have real problems that would be much worse I assure you then there being a line of people there or elsewhere who are in some type of order waiting to get on line at the posted time.
As for the weather evacuation and a re-entrance to the field you have a murky situation of attempting to be kind to others and your own self preservation I suppose. Differing perspectives and self interests may dictate the behavior of people. The person who was on the rail initially, probably will feel as though they should be able to be on the rail again as they were lined up in that order. Where as those who come back to a better spot than they had before may not want to move. Unfortunately it is complicated. Nobody should ever act like a jerk. Unfortunately there are generally three sided to the story in complicated situations.
The facts are without GA, anyone newer to the Ten Club would NEVER have a chance to be any where near the stage unless they win the lottery. So these are age old arguments of which is more fair etc...
If you have a good FC number you generally favor Reserved, if you don't you like the option of GA. This is NOT the case always but the majority of perspectives.
Overall I think the overwhelming majority that are in GA at a Pearl Jam concert enjoy it very much, not just those on the rail.
Post edited by steved on
1994 - Pensacola, Miami, Atlanta - 1995 - Milwaukee, Milwaukee, New Orleans (Tickets to Phoenix, Las Cruces, Austin, Shows Canceled) - 1996 - Randalls Island, Randalls Island, Charlotte, N.Charleston, Ft. Lauderdale - 1997 - Oakland-1998 - Alpine Valley, Alpine Valley, Chicago, West Palm Beach, West Palm Beach - 2000 - West Palm Beach, West Palm Beach, Phoenix, Las Vegas (10th Anniversary Show) - 2003 - West Palm Beach, Tampa, Atlanta, Nashville, Camden, Camden, MSG, MSG - 2004 - Kissimmee, Fl - 2006 - Irving Plaza, Albany, Hartford, Denver, Denver, Las Vegas - 2007 - Ed w/ Jack Irons & Flea in LA - 2008 - West Palm Beach, Tampa, Columbia, Camden, Camden, Washington D.C. - 2009 - L.A., San Diego, Philly Spectrum Night 3 & 4 - 2010 - New Orleans, Columbus, Indianapolis, Hartford, MSG, MSG - 2011 - Ed - Hartford, Providence, Boston - 2011 - Alpine Valley X2 (PJ20), Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver - 2012 - Ed - Ft. Lauderdale x2, - 2012 / 2014 Beautiful Daughter "Emily" born 11/07/12. On the bench for 3 years! She's really cute though! - 2015 - Mexico City - 2016 - Ft. Laud, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Greenville, Raleigh, Columbia, Philly 1 & 2, Toronto 1 & 2, Fenway 1 & 2, Wrigley Night 1 & 2 - 2016 - MSG, San Francisco, San Francisco, Seattle, Seattle (TOTD) - 2018 - Seattle 1 & 2, Fenway 1 & 2
Not sure why we are dicks. Nobody said security moved them anywhere. They were in Murphy’s. We spent time in Murphy’s also so does that make us all equal? I arrived into town on Friday so is that when I lined up? Bottom line for me is no lists or unauthorized lines per 10 Club. We went to the spot that we were told by security that we could stand. Off of Cubs controlled property and exactly where the pre 8:00 am line was started on Saturday with the other group in that line.
It depends on if you knew other people were there previously and had started a line.
A unofficial, make a list line that 10C has specifically said is not allowed?
No. Numbers and lists are bullshit. I mean the people who got there two days before and have been camping out.
I think the question was why should the pre-line be enforced when it was too clearly against the rules? How can anyone hanging out at a bar claim they are first in line when it was clearly stated there will be no line until 8? I know it would be impossible to enforce, that people will still hang out close by until they are allowed to line up.
But I think it would be cool if they stuck to the rule. Imagine getting rail and actually enjoying your stay in the city you're visiting? I haven't mocked the rail, I haven't been close enough to experience the negative sterotypes some are complaining about, and I think the rail would be friggin' awesome. I just wouldn't want to give up 2 days in a city I rarely go to for it.
I talked about the 8:00 rule earlier. It’s in place because the venues don’t want to deal with campers, not because the 10c wanted to do something different about people in GA. I think it’s a rule that should be ignored when I’m at the Missoula show and see a row of tents nearby that has people starting the line two days before the show. Also, the realities of the 8:00 rule would be a disaster if it actually played out where a huge mob shows up at 7:56.
Guys I posted this after the Seattle show. I know this is a different deal then what happened at Wrigley 2, but there has been a lot of hating on people that choose to camp out and be up front on a continual basis in this thread. So please read this for a different perspective.
To those who mock "us people" who sleep out for the front spots etc.. I
just wanted to share some of the perspective of why we do what we do.
My
wife flew out Sunday and camped out three nights for the first show. I
followed the next morning and camped out for two. We entered separately
as was appropriate for our separate arrival. We met up inside and
enjoyed the show together. We both went right from the night one show
and got in line for the Friday show. We have been to Seattle before and
done most of the tourist stuff. We were there for Pearl Jam concerts. We
have camped out many times before so we are pretty good at keeping
ourselves comfortable while on line. We have a suitcase that contains a
tent, mattress, air pump, and two sleeping bags.
The people we
meet from all over the world, and the old friends we get to spend time
with are part of the amazing experiences we have. We were on the rail
both nights. Night one we were on the rail one spot to the left of dead
center, and night two we were on the rail one spot to the right of dead
center. Our desire to be up there is not to beg for tambourines or
guitar picks or to make signs. It is to have a clear view of watching
our favorite band in the world perform like they are in our living room.Not a single obstruction, to be able to focus on the music with the
most dedicated, and generous fans on this planet. I could look over the
rail and turn my head and see 20 people in either direction that I know
their names and their stories of where they come from. We have talked
intimately until late at night and forged bonds we will have for a
lifetime. We have shared a common love and dedication for this band that
is not more or less than anyone else out of the other 47,000 people,
but it is different. We all shared an experience together. The sense of
community and camaraderie is something that is beyond special.
The
slightly sore and somewhat fatigued state that the camping out will
bring is instantly relieved by the first note of magic. I had more
energy, enthusiasm and passion then I ever feel when I am in a "seat".
Somehow there is a feeling of satisfaction you get after a long hard
days work. nothing feels better then getting home after you have been
working hard all day and then you are rewarded with whatever it is that
brings you the most comfort and joy.
I have done this before
and will do it again without hesitation when the opportunity permits. I
understand It is not for everyone, but for these particular fans it is
the most fulfilling way to enjoy the entire experience.
To all
all my old friends and the new friends we made, I thank you all for
enriching our time together and we will see you again soon.
Steve D
Just don't have your name on any list, and don't harass other people or generally act like an entitled douche in the line or on the rail, like many on the rail are known to do (hopefully you're not one of them), and I have no judgement whatsoever about people who wait a long time to get the rail. I don't really get the desire to wait in a line that long, but I still don't judge those who want to do that if they're following the rules and being cool. I know people tease about it, but I feel like it's lighthearted when it comes simply to people choosing to wait. The problem is the bad behaviour that reflects badly on so many on the rail, not the waiting itself. And I never see anyone from the rail acknowledge any of that terrible behaviour. Literally never. If anyone has, please show me the way, because it sure would be refreshing. I get the impression that the rail crew will just defend any of the other rail crew no matter what, because as a group they help each other get to the rail. FWIW, I'm sure everyone knows that not every single person who happens to be on the the rail is a jerk. I think people recognize that there are problem people, and then there are just innocents that decided to line up with them, lol. I do wish every single person who waits in these lines to get the rail would actually stay true to 10C's rule about the list though, and would shut down anyone who tries it. I have yet to see any evidence that those on the rail do that, but I'll be happy to see any.
I have been in 25 Pearl Jam GA Lines in my life. Only once was there a designated list that was written numbers on peoples hands. That was in Mexico City in 2015. Other than that NONE. I agree there are factions among the GA people that have a "pack mentality" and are not the most savory people. In my experience there are many more kind, generous fans that are there to be fair to others and enjoy their experience to their fullest.
Unfortunately I think with the 7:00am line up and the weather issues this was an anomaly to the normal GA experience. From my perspective there will be many people willing to join the line prior to 7am at any PJ show. Having a situation where you all run to the front of the line at 6:59 and 59 seconds doesn't make for a good recipe. You want to have real problems that would be much worse I assure you then there being a line of people there or elsewhere who are in some type of order waiting to get on line at the posted time.
As for the weather evacuation and a re-entrance to the field you have a murky situation of attempting to be kind to others and your own self preservation I suppose. Differing perspectives and self interests may dictate the behavior of people. The person who was on the rail initially, probably will feel as though they should be able to be on the rail again as they were lined up in that order. Where as those who come back to a better spot than they had before may not want to move. Unfortunately it is complicated. Nobody should ever act like a jerk. Unfortunately there are generally three sided to the story in complicated situations.
The facts are without GA, anyone newer to the Ten Club would NEVER have a chance to be any where near the stage unless they win the lottery. So these are age old arguments of which is more fair etc...
If you have a good FC number you generally favor Reserved, if you don't you like the option of GA. This is NOT the case always but the majority of perspectives.
Overall I think the overwhelming majority that are in GA at a Pearl Jam concert enjoy it very much, not just those on the rail.
Weird, because the list has clearly existed at many shows - you must be one lucky person! But I know it doesn't happen at all the shows. I always assumed those just happen to be the shows that the usual suspects couldn't get to, or at least couldn't get GA tix for, for one reason or another. I agree that the majority in the pit enjoy it very much. I know I do, although that is DESPITE the bullshit, not because there wasn't any. And that's as someone who's never even tried for the rail. Their actions definitely spread out to others. BTW, I've also run into the rail rats at other, non-PJ concerts, and they pull the same shit at those.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1 - Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am - Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time - Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at - There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there. - Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them - Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot - Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media. - Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.
Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great again
Where'd you get that?? From the Aussies?
Nope,from americans and canadians was there in the line.5-6 different friends told me
So I’m going to tell you exactly what I said because the words came directly from my mouth. As I was surrounded by a group of their friends that seemed to be mostly Australians, I said exactly “You need to go back to Australia because you don’t get to come into our country and tell us what to do.” That doesn’t make me racist. I have nothing against Australians. The only reason I have been referring to them here as “Australians” or “Aussie’s” is because I don’t know their names. Their IS one group of people that I can’t stand though...a**holes!!! And unfortunately, the Grand Imperial Aussie falls squarely into that category.
Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
I guess for me, personally all in all I don't see venue rules and policy as "outside authority", I see it as THE authority, so to speak. And if their line and whoever gets there first is the only line they consider official, the people who get to that line first, in this case ascahn, their place in line is (IMO) as legitimate as anything else
I have no clue why I am still talking about this but they were not the first in that line. The first in that line was moved by THE authority to another designated spot. 24 hours later his group claims that spot that was not allowed by group #1 but no security is there to move them. Are they lucky to get it and no authority is moving them or are they dicks for knowing others were in that spot but got moved. This is a question that will haunt us for years to come.
Easy answer. They’re dicks for knowing that others were there before they were and then didn’t move in behind the first group. Sounds like the first group didn’t respond well though.
Not sure why we are dicks. Nobody said security moved them anywhere. They were in Murphy’s. We spent time in Murphy’s also so does that make us all equal? I arrived into town on Friday so is that when I lined up? Bottom line for me is no lists or unauthorized lines per 10 Club. We went to the spot that we were told by security that we could stand. Off of Cubs controlled property and exactly where the pre 8:00 am line was started on Saturday with the other group in that line.
Dimi's friends are claiming your crew was telling the Australians they weren't welcome in the US and some Trumpy MAGA stuff. That true?
How about a number system like SWA? You line up based on your preselected number .. if you are number 1 and dont want to go in 2 1/2 hours before that is fine. you can go in whenever.. but if you are number 500 you have to lineup and get behind 499 or the closest number to 500 in front of you.. now that everything is mobile .. a random number could be generated on your ticket as your entry number just like a SWA ticket
Nashville '00 Houston, B'ham, Nashville, Atlanta '03 Toledo, Grand Rapids '04 Kitchener, London '05 Camden x 2, D.C., Cincy, San Fran x 3 '06 Chicago '07 Columbia '08 MSG x 2 '10; PJ 20 x 2 '11 Atlanta '12 Wrigley '13 St. Louis, Memphis '14 Lexington '15 Wrigley '16 Wrigley x 2 '18 Nashville '22
- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1 - Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am - Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time - Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at - There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there. - Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them - Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot - Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media. - Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.
Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great again
Where'd you get that?? From the Aussies?
Nope,from americans and canadians was there in the line.5-6 different friends told me
So I’m going to tell you exactly what I said because the words came directly from my mouth. As I was surrounded by a group of their friends that seemed to be mostly Australians, I said exactly “You need to go back to Australia because you don’t get to come into our country and tell us what to do.” That doesn’t make me racist. I have nothing against Australians. The only reason I have been referring to them here as “Australians” or “Aussie’s” is because I don’t know their names. Their IS one group of people that I can’t stand though...a**holes!!! And unfortunately, the Grand Imperial Aussie falls squarely into that category.
Seems fair to me, since it was coming from someone who was being harassed and intimidated for hours. If that's actually what you said, I agree that's not racist (or, xenophobic/Trumpy/whatever.... Can white Americans even be racists towards white Australians?? ). I figure tourists traveling abroad should probably not be abusive towards the locals (not that anyone should be abusive towards anyone). I would imagine that in any other similar scenario, 99% of people would be on the side of the locals. Well.... what a clusterfuck. The kicker of the rain delay causing this entire drama to be somewhat pointless makes it even a little more agonizing, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Drop the list, GOOMFF. People are still using a list/"you're cool because you've been to the last dozen shows with me" system. I'm all for them getting the rough end every once in a while.
As for lining up days before the show and camping - it is not just PJ where this sort of thing is happening and it is not just for concerts. Black Friday, new iPhone, Retro Jordan's, Kanye West pop-up shops, etc... it's consumer fear of not getting the best - view, product, deal - and that life will be worse because of it. It is ugly irony to live in a society that gives benefits to some people who choose to sleep in a tent on city streets, while at the same time harassing and victimizing others who are forced to do the same thing.
I'd also be more than happy with the 'Springsteen Method' - someone should start a poll. Ten Club should be listening to all of this craziness - end it.
How much can I make flipping my Springsteen-style number?
(Joking, except this would happen)
Lol. I know you're joking, but is that possible? Don't they secure the numbered wristband on the person immediately as names are drawn or something like that?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Weird, because the list has clearly existed at many shows - you must be one lucky person!
I agree that the majority in the pit enjoy it very much. I know I do, although that is DESPITE the bullshit, not because there wasn't any. And that's as someone who's never even tried for the rail. Their actions definitely spread out to others.
BTW, I've also run into the rail rats at other, non-PJ concerts, and they pull the same shit at those.
Houston, B'ham, Nashville, Atlanta '03
Toledo, Grand Rapids '04
Kitchener, London '05
Camden x 2, D.C., Cincy, San Fran x 3 '06
Chicago '07
Columbia '08
MSG x 2 '10;
PJ 20 x 2 '11
Atlanta '12
Wrigley '13
St. Louis, Memphis '14
Lexington '15
Wrigley '16
Wrigley x 2 '18
Nashville '22
Well.... what a clusterfuck. The kicker of the rain delay causing this entire drama to be somewhat pointless makes it even a little more agonizing, lol.
As for lining up days before the show and camping - it is not just PJ where this sort of thing is happening and it is not just for concerts. Black Friday, new iPhone, Retro Jordan's, Kanye West pop-up shops, etc... it's consumer fear of not getting the best - view, product, deal - and that life will be worse because of it. It is ugly irony to live in a society that gives benefits to some people who choose to sleep in a tent on city streets, while at the same time harassing and victimizing others who are forced to do the same thing.
I'd also be more than happy with the 'Springsteen Method' - someone should start a poll. Ten Club should be listening to all of this craziness - end it.
(Joking, except this would happen)