My story dealing with several horrible entitled “railbirds” in GA at Wrigley 2

PJ_Soul · August 2018

Go Beavers said:

So we could say the outside authority creating the 8:00 rule created the initial problem. If you let people camp right at the entry, then this would’ve been avoided, no?

Kind of, but the rail rats still saw fit to have a list going, so I would HOPE that anyone involved in a list (anyone whose name is on it) would be sent to the back of the line at some point before doors anyhow, which I suppose might create its own drama.

PJ_Soul · August 2018

Vedd Hedd said:

So, in order to get the rail...you not only need to be in line anywhere from 10-48 hours in advance, but also need to immediately run to the rail, and then spend the next 5-6 hours there without eating or going to the bathroom, all while elbowing out people who are trying to push up?

And if you DO move, you lose your spot?

Yeah, bring back the seats please.

I just don't understand wanting to go back to seats just because of what maybe 100 people are doing out of thousands.

PJ_Soul · August 2018

Big Bank Hank said:

have any of these "Aussies" responded to this thread? Or maybe they are only 10c members to get GA tickets & bully the GA line?

Rail rats never speak up. They lurk.

mace1229 · August 2018

Holy cow this thread got huge.
Reading through most of this I find some things funny.
Railrats. I Had no idea they exist, or that it is the same people every time. I've honestly never paid any attention to who is up from in any of the dvd's or videos I've seen and had no idea this was even a thing.
I also find it funny that so many make fun of being on the rail or getting a tambo/hi five. That would be freaking awesome to be that close, and getting something like that would be amazing. I'd frame the tambo with the poster right in my living room despite whatever objections my wife has about it being the focus of our decoration. But I wouldn't trade camping out for 2 days in a cool city I'm visiting just for a chance at this, that isnt worth it ( a flat out guarantee first 10 in line get rail and a tambo I'd be in thoogh).
But after I did it once I probably wouldn't have much motivation to do it again, so I don't get why people want to camp out for days every time. I wouldn't call them selfish as others did, if they want to give up their time every show them fine, they have no responsibility to "share" the rail if they are will to put in time for it.

As far as that crazy example for night 2 at wrigley. There's no line until 8 am, how could anyone cut? How could there be an official pre-line where people lined up when the "rules" clearly stated against it. Some random dude could have run up at 7:59 and I don't see what would have been wrong with that.

One thing I do know, this is just exactly why if I get GA again I'll be happy standing in the back.

PJ_Soul · August 2018

ascahn said:

PJNB said:

Is this narrative wrong on what happened?

- Night 1 ends and an unofficial line forms. Security moves them to a location that they are allowed to form the line and wait to be moved until 8:00am

- You guys show up, know that there is an unofficial line that was made long before you got there and you still push to get ahead of it knowing they camped out right after the show.

- Security comes, does not give a shit and moves on

I have a couple of questions. If you knew that people were there way before you, 8:00am lineup time or not, why did you feel the need to get ahead of them? I would never have done that myself official line or not. I am not defending them just find it ballsy to try and slip in like that. Yes 8:00am is the designated time but these people were moved to a section by security and told to wait there until they would all be moved to the official location. In the meantime you guys come in not waiting nearly as much as the others and take the front spot. I can understand how the other group would not be overjoyed by this but them using the list and confrontational attitude is ridiculous. I am not sure what 10 club thought would happen with the 8:00am but it seemed like they were ok with the unofficial line. Posting vids and pics on social media over this was unnecessary as well by them. To have your faces smeared on a page of over 60,000 people was not fair to you or your group. Fuck them for doing that.

PJ_Soul said:

PJNB said:

Is this narrative wrong on what happened?

- Night 1 ends and an unofficial line forms. Security moves them to a location that they are allowed to form the line and wait to be moved until 8:00am

- You guys show up, know that there is an unofficial line that was made long before you got there and you still push to get ahead of it knowing they camped out right after the show.

- Security comes, does not give a shit and moves on

I have a couple of questions. If you knew that people were there way before you, 8:00am lineup time or not, why did you feel the need to get ahead of them? I would never have done that myself official line or not. I am not defending them just find it ballsy to try and slip in like that. Yes 8:00am is the designated time but these people were moved to a section by security and told to wait there until they would all be moved to the official location. In the meantime you guys come in not waiting nearly as much as the others and take the front spot. I can understand how the other group would not be overjoyed by this but them using the list and confrontational attitude is ridiculous. I am not sure what 10 club thought would happen with the 8:00am but it seemed like they were ok with the unofficial line. Posting vids and pics on social media over this was unnecessary as well by them. To have your faces smeared on a page of over 60,000 people was not fair to you or your group. Fuck them for doing that.

IMO, the second that group created a list, they lost their right to that spot in their illegitimate line, as per 10C rules. Technically, all of them should have been sent to the back of the line.

We didn’t know for sure that they had a list until we actually saw them lining people up from the list in order. We had no list. We just got in line. There were four of us there to start and an additional person walked up and joined us. The rules per Ten Club were clear to me in that all attempts to create a list or numbering system were prohibited. Now, it would be different if all Ten Club members were aware of their list and had an opportunity to be on it, but that wasn’t the case. They opened that opportunity to those that they chose. They offered the opportunity to be on their list to us, but we refused citing the Ten Club rule. Also, I don’t believe security told them to go wait inside Murphy’s until a time that they would be moved, and that’s where many of them were. In addition, 8 vehicles arrive at 4:00 am and drop off numerous people carrying their gear for waiting all day. They were not in any kind of line, they just appeared and joined the others.

Yeah, good for you for refusing to be on the list. I have also refused to be on it and stood my ground before.... Of course that didn't stop about 100 people who were on the list but not in line from showing up 20 minutes before doors and going to the front of the line, and screaming at everyone further back that we had to move to make room from them. I was fucking pissed off about it, but there is only power in numbers, and unfortunately the listers intimidated most people through yelling and screaming and making false claims about security being prepared to not let anyone through the doors unless everyone moved back. Somehow this bullshit worked on way too many people, who kept their mouths shut and marched to these fuckheads' drums. I was livid about the whole scene, just out of principle, but nobody was willing to do anything about it. I couldn't believe how easy it was for random assholes to arbitrarily take control over the majority. You were just lucky you ended up ahead of these fucks instead of behind them. Being ahead of them and having that confirmed by security is the only way to beat them, apparently.

PJ_Soul · August 2018

pjsteelerfan said:

I think the Springsteen method would help. Plus it would piss off the rail Nazis. And it could open the rial up to new people every show. Would not solve everything, but it sounds like a winner. Will be fun if they implement this in 2019.

I would be incredible if 10C would do this.

Big Bank Hank · August 2018

dimitrispearljam said:

I'm always go to GA and I'll always will, best way to see the band live. Along with Alot of friend at the spot u choose to spent the night. ... Plus most Rockin vibe and energy..
Im hanging around with Alot of friends if I have to limited it, we are like a group of 40 people or so..,mostly north Americans, a couple Canadians, a few Europeans and South Americans. And some goes to all shows, some to many shows. Some to a couple so let's say every night we are around 20 of us . We always go to the back of GA. When there is a 10c box like in Wrigley we go in the back of box.. If it's an open GA for all with just early entrance for 10c members we go to the back if the floor in front of sound booth.. Except the fact we are all together and travelers so it's good to have your people with u we rock out having space for dance, move, go to toilet , go get a drink and come back easily.. We love it.. The sound is always the best at that spot and we have NO DRAMA.. We have the best time.. I got the rail a few times, got tambourine and wine and handshake with Eddie and all times at side rail.. At big venues and stadium Alot don't go to side rail and even if u go late u can get side rail as happen to me. And all this happens with no stress, not waiting in any line just walk in and side rail was empty... I have tons of people I know and friends they do the rail line up thing. They camp out of venue etc. I usually go the night before or before early entrance the day of the show to say hi to them cos it's the way to see them in your cos they don't go to preparties. Or dinners or to bars or sightseeing.. It's their thing.. More if them are cool.. And respect each other. Assholes are everywhere..And cutters. Sorry op had bad experience of course Wrigley was a unique situation cos of delay and all evacuation of the GA area and re enter..
I'm here for the music and enjoy life. I feel this GA line up is too much extra pressure for me and I don't see the reason to do it. Same is merch line thing.. Welhen I go on tour is my vacation. I want to enjoy.. I don't need drama..
And all the time looks who is in front of me or behind me.. For me all has to do with how selfish society has become. We want all for us. And don't care for others. Rail sometimes show that part of the society.

If everyone was as cool as Dimi, there'd never be any problems in GA, truth

PJ_Soul · August 2018

SpinTheLastExit said:

PJ_Soul said:

Saltzy23 said:

I was in the GA on Saturday night. Found a good spot center stage like 50' back, which is where I usually go.

I am like 5'8". Some guy that was easily 6'2" or 6'3" walks right....RIGHT....in front of me and just parks it there.

I tap him on the shoulder and ask him to please move a little to the side, or just swap positions with me, and all he does is look down and say "No."

I'm not a violent person and I am certainly not about to get kicked out of the pit before a PJ show, but I was very close to leaning back and punching him in the fucking face.

95% of the PJ community are amazing people, but man, that other 5% can seriously choke on [crude comment removed by Admin]

Couldn't you move a little to the side yourself? I'm not saying he was being reasonable, but you know... seems like an easy solution for you there.
As for swapping with shorter people... I get why tall people will say no to that. I am tall myself (for a woman), and I have let short people behind me go in front of me before quite happily, but where does it end? One person is no big deal... but then the next person can ask, and the next... and suddenly someone who lets shorter people go in front of them has moved way back in the pit, lol. I think I can understand if some people, especially guys who would be experiencing these kinds of requests a lot, would just stop doing it altogether. Sucks to be shorter in the pit I'm sure - I've had crazy tall guys standing right in front of me lots of times, and it blows - but I don't see why tall people should actually be expected to sacrifice anything if they don't want to. When someone really tall is in front of me I just move somewhere else.

It's hard to "move a little to the side yourself" when GA is already crowded. Besides, I'm 5' 6" and I'm not giving up the position I arrived at very comfortably because some giant is parking themselves right in front of me five minutes before the band come on stage or even half way through the gig. It happened so much in Europe and it happened to be a bunch of drunk ignorants.

In regards to Wrigley, I'd personally rather do reserved seating than GA, but this time I thought I'd do one standing show for Wrigley. I enjoyed it, the rain delay probably worked in my favour a bit more, had a great view and everyone around me was very considerate in relation to space. GA didn't look overly full during N2, it looked cramped from where I was sitting in N1.

If it's hard for the short person to move a little to the side, then it's probably going to be even harder for the tall person in front of the short person to move a little to the side.
I dunno - GA is GA. I consider it a free for all, and if someone can find a path up to the front without physically displacing people, then I think that is completely fair game. Their height is irrelevant IMO. Having someone taller than you blocking your view is just the risk anyone takes when buying GA tickets... Or any tickets, for that matter. I've had monstrous people right in front of me in seats too, which is even worse, because you can't even move in that scenario. It's not like I'm asking taller people to switch seats with me so they can block the view of the person behind me instead of my own.

dimitrispearljam · August 2018

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened.

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great again

Go Beavers · August 2018

Big Bank Hank said:

I know that Ed reads the boards (he has played 3 of my requests in the last 5 years & referred to specifics that were made during those requests), I wonder what he is thinking reading all these horror stories? When you are up on stage kicking ass & taking names & are fully committed to giving the best performance you can, you are going to miss 99% of what goes on, so I am sure to a certain extent the band has been insulated from a lot of the ugliness.

I’m going to say with 99.9% certainty that Ed doesn’t read the boards. Someone else has pulled requests from here and forwarded them to Ed.

PJ_Soul · August 2018

Go Beavers said:

Big Bank Hank said:

I know that Ed reads the boards (he has played 3 of my requests in the last 5 years & referred to specifics that were made during those requests), I wonder what he is thinking reading all these horror stories? When you are up on stage kicking ass & taking names & are fully committed to giving the best performance you can, you are going to miss 99% of what goes on, so I am sure to a certain extent the band has been insulated from a lot of the ugliness.

I’m going to say with 99.9% certainty that Ed doesn’t read the boards. Someone else has pulled requests from here and forwarded them to Ed.

Yup. There is no way in hell Eddie actually reads the forum, lol. The 10C staff passes along requests.

PJ_Soul · August 2018

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened.

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great again

Where'd you get that?? From the Aussies?

Big Bank Hank · August 2018

Go Beavers said:

Big Bank Hank said:

I know that Ed reads the boards (he has played 3 of my requests in the last 5 years & referred to specifics that were made during those requests), I wonder what he is thinking reading all these horror stories? When you are up on stage kicking ass & taking names & are fully committed to giving the best performance you can, you are going to miss 99% of what goes on, so I am sure to a certain extent the band has been insulated from a lot of the ugliness.

I’m going to say with 99.9% certainty that Ed doesn’t read the boards. Someone else has pulled requests from here and forwarded them to Ed.

That is totally plausable, he obviously has better things to do, lol

dimitrispearljam · August 2018

PJ_Soul said:

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened.

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great again

Where'd you get that?? From the Aussies?

Nope,from americans and canadians was there in the line.5-6 different friends told me

PJ_Soul · August 2018

dimitrispearljam said:

PJ_Soul said:

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened.

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great again

Where'd you get that?? From the Aussies?

Nope, americans and canadians was there in the line

Hmm. Well, I have no idea if that's true or false, but if the intimidation being brought down on the group 2 is real, which I think it is, because I saw those facebook posts about them, then I can't say I really blame them for giving some in return, not that I support comments like that in general .... I'd say it's a real stretch blaming it on Trump, lol.
Group 1 sounds like BY FAR the worst group in this whole thing.

dimitrispearljam · August 2018

PJ_Soul said:

dimitrispearljam said:

PJ_Soul said:

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened.

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great again

Where'd you get that?? From the Aussies?

Nope, americans and canadians was there in the line

Hmm. Well, I have no idea if that's true or false, but if the intimidation being brought down on the group 2 is real, which I think it is, because I saw those facebook posts about them, then I can't say I really blame them for giving some in return, not that I support comments like that in general .... I'd say it's a real stretch blaming it on Trump, lol.
Group 1 sounds like BY FAR the worst group in this whole thing.

I trust people who told me and isn't big suprises to me that happen. I just got rasist attack yesterday in facebook With Alot of cursing about me and my country with the end like "fuck you and Greece, Go Trump

PJ_Soul · August 2018

dimitrispearljam said:

PJ_Soul said:

dimitrispearljam said:

PJ_Soul said:

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened.

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great again

Where'd you get that?? From the Aussies?

Nope, americans and canadians was there in the line

Hmm. Well, I have no idea if that's true or false, but if the intimidation being brought down on the group 2 is real, which I think it is, because I saw those facebook posts about them, then I can't say I really blame them for giving some in return, not that I support comments like that in general .... I'd say it's a real stretch blaming it on Trump, lol.
Group 1 sounds like BY FAR the worst group in this whole thing.

I trust people who told me and isn't big suprises to me that happen. I just got rasist attack yesterday in facebook With Alot of cursing about me and my country with the end like "fuck you and Greece, Go Trump

I'm not trusting any stories coming from people defending those who posted those facebook posts about group 2, because they were lying their faces off about it and publicly slandering them online, with photos. There is no way I'm taking the side of anyone who did that or played any role in confirming it.

2-feign-reluctance · August 2018

This monster level of fanaticism has some 'arms' - one of which is seeing as many shows as possible or following a band on tour. I had no idea people did shit like what Dimitris does until 2003 when I decided to line up 'early' in Kansas City to be the 'best of my 10c block' and met some seriously fanatical folks. It amazed me how much the whole thing for some was hardly about the music, but more like the lifestyle as documented in 'Almost Famous'. Aussies are great people - I'm married to one. Among other things I've learned, they have a pretty big thirst for American bands, traveling, adventure and a healthy fear of Americans. Let's be careful not to generalise an entire people on here ok?

PJ_Soul · August 2018

2-feign-reluctance said:

This monster level of fanaticism has some 'arms' - one of which is seeing as many shows as possible or following a band on tour. I had no idea people did shit like what Dimitris does until 2003 when I decided to line up 'early' in Kansas City to be the 'best of my 10c block' and met some seriously fanatical folks. It amazed me how much the whole thing for some was hardly about the music, but more like the lifestyle as documented in 'Almost Famous'. Aussies are great people - I'm married to one. Among other things I've learned, they have a pretty big thirst for American bands, traveling, adventure and a healthy fear of Americans. Let's be careful not to generalise an entire people on here ok?

If there is the impression being given, I'll just mentioned that it never even crossed my mind that these folks represented Aussies in general.

mcgruff10 · August 2018

dimitrispearljam said:

. PJNB said:

By the sounds of things this is what happened.

- Group 1 leaves show early to start new line after night 1
- Group 1 is told to move to another area by security and are going to allow them to stay there until it is time to walk them up to the official line at 8:00am
- Group 1 may or may not have used a list and may or may not have been in line the whole time
- Group 2 comes in 24 hours later on Sunday night and claims the 8:00am spot that security told group 1 they were not allowed to be at
- There is no security to tell group 2 that they are not allowed to be there.
- Group 1 tells group 2 about the other line already started and about security moving them
- Group 2 does not care about the other line and keeps their spot
- Some of Group 1 acts like a bunch of idiots bullying and posting on social media.
- Rain comes pouring down and both groups get a much needed wash.

Exactly what happen plus group 2 said to Australians u are not welcome to USA and respect Americans cos its their country. .Trump making america great again

I feel like the Aussies lost all their credibility on this.

My story dealing with several horrible entitled “railbirds” in GA at Wrigley 2

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