Medicare for all

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

rgambs said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Medical cost would go down for the consumer if hospital stay items (just some examples) were adjusted down to a reasonable level:

Tylenol, one pill, $15

Plastic bag, $8

Box of tissues, $8

Gloves, $53

Cup for medicine, $10

Marking pen, $18

Swab, each, $23

Cost of use for overhead light during operations, $93.50

Is that actually true.  Your hospital bills are itemized like that.  

It's true. I see stories about it all the time. I remember an article about how some hospitals charge mothers who just gave birth to hold their newborn baby in the delivery room. The "service" is called "skin-to-skin contact". Absolutely fucked up!!! Even with stories like that aside (of which there are so many), I can't believe Americans tolerate their healthcare system the way they do. Many even defend it!! It's just nuts. I have to assume people have just been brainwashed about it or something. There are people who are seriously hurt or injured in the US who refuse to get medical care because they simply don't have the cash to deal with it. It's just terrible. And when I realized just how much Americans are paying for health insurance down there, I was absolutely flabberghasted. The average annual personal, individual cost for healthcare in the US is at $11,000!!! The average healthcare insurance premium per MONTH is $350 USD. It's absolutely outrageous, and I consider it one massive human rights violation.

How do they justify those prices?  They definitely need a better system...

Obviously our healthcare woes aren't your fault, but we are held back entirely by the same ideology you bring to these boards.  As someone said, fear of socialism...  Distrust of government and a misguided notion that we can make better choices and get better values with our money if the government doesn't take taxes from us...  The seriously foolish notion that the free market can provide human rights without strict control...  Those are the principles keeping us trapped under a heinous and ridiculous system where the same entities which profit from our disease and death are the ones who make our healthcare decisions.

Our Health care system was started by Tommy Douglas in the late 40's and full hospital coverage was brought to us by Paul Martin SR in the 60's and full universal health care was achieved in the late 60's, but since then we have not had an expansion of universal health care ... as a matter of FACT depending on the province you live in many of the service's that may have been covered when I was growing are no longer covered...So before you through out blanket statements maybe do a little research.  Don't get me wrong I appreciate what we have, but I can almost guarantee there needs to be improvement and efficiencies found or more services will cut...

This is a pretty weak reply to a statement that totally rings true. You should have tried to clarify how you balance your general views against the healthcare system you enjoy, rather than just trying to kind of trash the system, lol.

But anyway, yes, we pay for certain things (often covered largely by extended healthcare coverage offered by employers), but we never EVER have to pay for any life-saving treatment, emergency treatment, non-selective surgeries, child birth, abortions, check ups, visits to the family doctor, referred visits to specialists, non-elective scans, all cancer treatment, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. SO much of our healthcare is covered so that nobody is losing their house when they get sick, and so that poor people are put at a disadvantage when it comes to necessary healthcare. My main complaint about what isn't covered is eye care. While any eye injuries or diseases are completely covered, and referrals to optometrists makes the visit free too, adults between 18 and 65 still have to pay for regular eye exams. It's like $80 - $90 usually, and that isn't normally covered by extended coverage either (though eyeglasses prescriptions are, just like most other prescriptions) .... But if that eye doctor finds any issues that require follow-up or additional tests or procedures, all that's free too. Still, eye health is really important, and most eye problems are discovered during an annual visit to the optometrist, and making us pay for that check-up is likely keeping some adults from going regularly.
And yeah, of course, ALL healthcare systems always have room for improvement (waitlists for non-emergent surgeries like knee replacements can get long, for example, and provinces should do better with that (BC is making a good move there thank goodness)). But we're talking about how the US system is specifically heinous for people because it is so far away from those other systems and relies on the free market, which is terrible. That is undeniable.

And another I live in democracy ... in a democracy I am free to question my governments action, and I'm free to criticize their actions as well. If you do not like feel free to move to China.  Now move along and quit fucking bothering me...

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

rgambs said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Medical cost would go down for the consumer if hospital stay items (just some examples) were adjusted down to a reasonable level:

Tylenol, one pill, $15

Plastic bag, $8

Box of tissues, $8

Gloves, $53

Cup for medicine, $10

Marking pen, $18

Swab, each, $23

Cost of use for overhead light during operations, $93.50

Is that actually true.  Your hospital bills are itemized like that.  

It's true. I see stories about it all the time. I remember an article about how some hospitals charge mothers who just gave birth to hold their newborn baby in the delivery room. The "service" is called "skin-to-skin contact". Absolutely fucked up!!! Even with stories like that aside (of which there are so many), I can't believe Americans tolerate their healthcare system the way they do. Many even defend it!! It's just nuts. I have to assume people have just been brainwashed about it or something. There are people who are seriously hurt or injured in the US who refuse to get medical care because they simply don't have the cash to deal with it. It's just terrible. And when I realized just how much Americans are paying for health insurance down there, I was absolutely flabberghasted. The average annual personal, individual cost for healthcare in the US is at $11,000!!! The average healthcare insurance premium per MONTH is $350 USD. It's absolutely outrageous, and I consider it one massive human rights violation.

How do they justify those prices?  They definitely need a better system...

Obviously our healthcare woes aren't your fault, but we are held back entirely by the same ideology you bring to these boards.  As someone said, fear of socialism...  Distrust of government and a misguided notion that we can make better choices and get better values with our money if the government doesn't take taxes from us...  The seriously foolish notion that the free market can provide human rights without strict control...  Those are the principles keeping us trapped under a heinous and ridiculous system where the same entities which profit from our disease and death are the ones who make our healthcare decisions.

Our Health care system was started by Tommy Douglas in the late 40's and full hospital coverage was brought to us by Paul Martin SR in the 60's and full universal health care was achieved in the late 60's, but since then we have not had an expansion of universal health care ... as a matter of FACT depending on the province you live in many of the service's that may have been covered when I was growing are no longer covered...So before you through out blanket statements maybe do a little research.  Don't get me wrong I appreciate what we have, but I can almost guarantee there needs to be improvement and efficiencies found or more services will cut...

This is a pretty weak reply to a statement that totally rings true. You should have tried to clarify how you balance your general views against the healthcare system you enjoy, rather than just trying to kind of trash the system, lol.

But anyway, yes, we pay for certain things (often covered largely by extended healthcare coverage offered by employers), but we never EVER have to pay for any life-saving treatment, emergency treatment, non-selective surgeries, child birth, abortions, check ups, visits to the family doctor, referred visits to specialists, non-elective scans, all cancer treatment, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. SO much of our healthcare is covered so that nobody is losing their house when they get sick, and so that poor people are put at a disadvantage when it comes to necessary healthcare. My main complaint about what isn't covered is eye care. While any eye injuries or diseases are completely covered, and referrals to optometrists makes the visit free too, adults between 18 and 65 still have to pay for regular eye exams. It's like $80 - $90 usually, and that isn't normally covered by extended coverage either (though eyeglasses prescriptions are, just like most other prescriptions) .... But if that eye doctor finds any issues that require follow-up or additional tests or procedures, all that's free too. Still, eye health is really important, and most eye problems are discovered during an annual visit to the optometrist, and making us pay for that check-up is likely keeping some adults from going regularly.
And yeah, of course, ALL healthcare systems always have room for improvement (waitlists for non-emergent surgeries like knee replacements can get long, for example, and provinces should do better with that (BC is making a good move there thank goodness)). But we're talking about how the US system is specifically heinous for people because it is so far away from those other systems and relies on the free market, which is terrible. That is undeniable.

And another I live in democracy ... in a democracy I am free to question my governments action, and I'm free to criticize their actions as well. If you do not like feel free to move to China.  Now move along and quit fucking bothering me...

rgambs said:

Meltdown99 said:

I'm not going respond to that unnecessary overly long reply ...

My point being is it seem with every  government they are  allowing the system to deteriorating because of inefficiencies and poor funding.  

You know what, you know that ... you just need to argue for no fucking reason ... now heres a plan go fucking argue with yourself.  Im done discussing fuck all with you...

My wife owns a small business and our annual income is well under 100,000$.
Monthly insurance premiums are 700$ and the deductible is 6,000$ per person.
I understand that no system works with perfect efficiency, but try to imagine the impact that cost has on a family ON TOP of the taxation rate that could easily supply universal coverage if the stodgy old Reaganomics folks like yourself (again, not your fault) didn't stand in the way on crusted old ideologies that were never practical to begin with.