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  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 32,164
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    LongestRoad said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    LongestRoad said:
    mace1229 said:
    I see a lot disputing the crim rates of illegals. When looking for myself it seemed most resources tried to say the same thing, but did so by completing ignoring the population difference.
    Of what I read those sources don’t factor in the difference of populations. If 5% of the populations commits 10% of the crime, you can’t claim they commit less crime.


     You have to disregard statistics, logic and facts for their view. 
    So what do you think of Fox News?
    I already talked about this the other day. They should be called Fox Opinion and CNN Opinion. Although from watching many different news stations, I would say Fox has an edge over CNN only for some actual real news thrown in. CNN only discusses their complete dislike for the President pretty much 24 hours a day. You barely see any other news on that station anymore. 
    Well, that flies in the face of the researched and documented differences in presentation of true statements between Fox and CNN. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Fox does not come out ahead. 
    It's all a matter of opinion. Neither should be called news station. The majority is opinions on their political stance on those two in particular. it doesn't stop just at those two though. You have to weed out a lot to get to some topics other than political views. 
    You mentioned CNN only spews their hate for orange Baffoon if this president did anything honorable or good , can you tell me what those things are has he done anything that’s considered humane or good for the world to look up too for the life of me I can’t find anything that remotely shows that except yesterday when he had the parents of people killed by the immigrants he so despises ..
    Hell he didn’t even show any compassion when the Charlottesville woman got run over and she was an American! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • LongestRoad
    LongestRoad Posts: 477
    edited June 2018
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Both by our government and by their parents. Don't forget media ratings and political sides.
    Post edited by LongestRoad on
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    LongestRoad said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Both by our government and by their parents. Don't forget media ratings and political sides.
    While it's true that the Democrats are exploiting the situation for political gain, it's not their zero tolerance policy that created the situation to be exploited.  That's a pretty fundamental difference.  
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,799
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    Exactly!!  This keeps getting overlooked.  These people are fleeing horrible situations.  Taking their kids with them is often the best option they have.  I don't understand why this point keeps getting overlooked by some.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Similar to the roll out of the travel ban, the zero tolerance policy (along with the subsequent EO) were ill thought out, not planned, not communicated well to agencies, and not assessed for 2nd, 3rd order effects.  Both of these were the brain child of Stephen Miller who has unilateral control of immigration policy, due to an internal WH bargain between advisers.  He's a neophyte who has shown himself to be an awful, awful government adviser.  It's what happens when you put children and adults that act like children, in important jobs.  
  • LongestRoad
    LongestRoad Posts: 477
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    So you admit this is a better option? We should just send our military in and clear out all the corruption and gangs running those counties and bring all the manufacturing and jobs back to our country so the immigrants coming here can get employment at a decent wage. No paying less to immigrants which drives down employment for people that are already here. That in itself should be a crime. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    So you admit this is a better option? We should just send our military in and clear out all the corruption and gangs running those counties and bring all the manufacturing and jobs back to our country so the immigrants coming here can get employment at a decent wage. No paying less to immigrants which drives down employment for people that are already here. That in itself should be a crime. 
    NO!  Don't interfere in the free market.  What we are experiencing in the last 20 years is akin to the Industrial Revolution.  It leaves some people behind.  The mistake of NAFTA was not the policy, it was the gov't failure to plan and invest in education for the workforce that would naturally be left behind (you know...Trump voters).  
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    So you admit this is a better option? We should just send our military in and clear out all the corruption and gangs running those counties and bring all the manufacturing and jobs back to our country so the immigrants coming here can get employment at a decent wage. No paying less to immigrants which drives down employment for people that are already here. That in itself should be a crime. 
    Claiming asylum is generally seen as a better option than death, yes. I’m not sure why that would be a surprise. 

    And like I said earlier, the USA has such a wonderful track record of cleaning up messes in other counties...  What could possibly go wrong there?
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    Do you factor in that the violence exists because our border is not secure?
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,667
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    So you admit this is a better option? We should just send our military in and clear out all the corruption and gangs running those counties and bring all the manufacturing and jobs back to our country so the immigrants coming here can get employment at a decent wage. No paying less to immigrants which drives down employment for people that are already here. That in itself should be a crime. 
    Hey slow down there, Stalin.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    So you admit this is a better option? We should just send our military in and clear out all the corruption and gangs running those counties and bring all the manufacturing and jobs back to our country so the immigrants coming here can get employment at a decent wage. No paying less to immigrants which drives down employment for people that are already here. That in itself should be a crime. 
    I disagree with a military option.

    End the war on drugs.

    Properly secure the border.


  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,053
    oftenreading said:
    Sorry - to clarify my comment above, because I wrote it too quickly - whenever undocumented immigrants are taken into custody due to their immigration status, it’s considered a federal incarceration, which means that even if it’s only briefly, it’s counted  Also, by no means was it always brief, even before this current issue. 
    Thanks for clarifying.
    so federal detainment counts as a figure in federal prison?
    I did not know that if that’s what you’re saying.
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mace1229 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Sorry - to clarify my comment above, because I wrote it too quickly - whenever undocumented immigrants are taken into custody due to their immigration status, it’s considered a federal incarceration, which means that even if it’s only briefly, it’s counted  Also, by no means was it always brief, even before this current issue. 
    Thanks for clarifying.
    so federal detainment counts as a figure in federal prison?
    I did not know that if that’s what you’re saying.
    Yes, it does. Skews the figures significantly. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    unsung said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    Do you factor in that the violence exists because our border is not secure?
    I disagree that the violence in those countries stems from the state of the American border, or that it would be fixed by a more “secure” border 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • LongestRoad
    LongestRoad Posts: 477
    oftenreading said:
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    So you admit this is a better option? We should just send our military in and clear out all the corruption and gangs running those counties and bring all the manufacturing and jobs back to our country so the immigrants coming here can get employment at a decent wage. No paying less to immigrants which drives down employment for people that are already here. That in itself should be a crime. 
    Claiming asylum is generally seen as a better option than death, yes. I’m not sure why that would be a surprise. 

    And like I said earlier, the USA has such a wonderful track record of cleaning up messes in other counties...  What could possibly go wrong there?
    Well the ISIS mess seems less of a threat since we started letting our military run our military. No more lets tell our enemy where we're going to be because that's only fair!?!?!? Are you kidding me that was some f'd up logic. Don't think the people that were being persecuted in the middle east aren't gratteful for having our military over there. They don't want to go through what they went through during the previos administration. Hopefully one day our military can leave there after those countries put in safeguards to make sure that the extremists can never get that much power again. They need to elect some of those badass women that were over there fighting the enemy while the coward men from those countries left them and the children behind to flee with thier balls tucked up their asses. 
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    So you admit this is a better option? We should just send our military in and clear out all the corruption and gangs running those counties and bring all the manufacturing and jobs back to our country so the immigrants coming here can get employment at a decent wage. No paying less to immigrants which drives down employment for people that are already here. That in itself should be a crime. 
    Claiming asylum is generally seen as a better option than death, yes. I’m not sure why that would be a surprise. 

    And like I said earlier, the USA has such a wonderful track record of cleaning up messes in other counties...  What could possibly go wrong there?
    Well the ISIS mess seems less of a threat since we started letting our military run our military. No more lets tell our enemy where we're going to be because that's only fair!?!?!? Are you kidding me that was some f'd up logic. Don't think the people that were being persecuted in the middle east aren't gratteful for having our military over there. They don't want to go through what they went through during the previos administration. Hopefully one day our military can leave there after those countries put in safeguards to make sure that the extremists can never get that much power again. They need to elect some of those badass women that were over there fighting the enemy while the coward men from those countries left them and the children behind to flee with thier balls tucked up their asses. 
    Tell us, what major changes did Trump make to the military approach regarding ISIS? Most defence experts say that he has generally just continued the approach started by Obama, with minor tweaks, and that the majority of the gains had already started under Obama’s administration. Continuation of the same approach brought some further gains, but no one but Trump claims that he changed the game there. 
     
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,235
    oftenreading said:
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    So you admit this is a better option? We should just send our military in and clear out all the corruption and gangs running those counties and bring all the manufacturing and jobs back to our country so the immigrants coming here can get employment at a decent wage. No paying less to immigrants which drives down employment for people that are already here. That in itself should be a crime. 
    Claiming asylum is generally seen as a better option than death, yes. I’m not sure why that would be a surprise. 

    And like I said earlier, the USA has such a wonderful track record of cleaning up messes in other counties...  What could possibly go wrong there?
    Well the ISIS mess seems less of a threat since we started letting our military run our military. No more lets tell our enemy where we're going to be because that's only fair!?!?!? Are you kidding me that was some f'd up logic. Don't think the people that were being persecuted in the middle east aren't gratteful for having our military over there. They don't want to go through what they went through during the previos administration. Hopefully one day our military can leave there after those countries put in safeguards to make sure that the extremists can never get that much power again. They need to elect some of those badass women that were over there fighting the enemy while the coward men from those countries left them and the children behind to flee with thier balls tucked up their asses. 
    Tell us, what major changes did Trump make to the military approach regarding ISIS? Most defence experts say that he has generally just continued the approach started by Obama, with minor tweaks, and that the majority of the gains had already started under Obama’s administration. Continuation of the same approach brought some further gains, but no one but Trump claims that he changed the game there. 
     
    Team Trump Treason is smarter than all his generals and is a brilliant war strategist, learned in the Art of War. Didn’t you know that?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,799
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    oftenreading said:
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    LongestRoad said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    So you admit this is a better option? We should just send our military in and clear out all the corruption and gangs running those counties and bring all the manufacturing and jobs back to our country so the immigrants coming here can get employment at a decent wage. No paying less to immigrants which drives down employment for people that are already here. That in itself should be a crime. 
    Claiming asylum is generally seen as a better option than death, yes. I’m not sure why that would be a surprise. 

    And like I said earlier, the USA has such a wonderful track record of cleaning up messes in other counties...  What could possibly go wrong there?
    Well the ISIS mess seems less of a threat since we started letting our military run our military. No more lets tell our enemy where we're going to be because that's only fair!?!?!? Are you kidding me that was some f'd up logic. Don't think the people that were being persecuted in the middle east aren't gratteful for having our military over there. They don't want to go through what they went through during the previos administration. Hopefully one day our military can leave there after those countries put in safeguards to make sure that the extremists can never get that much power again. They need to elect some of those badass women that were over there fighting the enemy while the coward men from those countries left them and the children behind to flee with thier balls tucked up their asses. 
    Tell us, what major changes did Trump make to the military approach regarding ISIS? Most defence experts say that he has generally just continued the approach started by Obama, with minor tweaks, and that the majority of the gains had already started under Obama’s administration. Continuation of the same approach brought some further gains, but no one but Trump claims that he changed the game there. 
     
    Team Trump Treason is smarter than all his generals and is a brilliant war strategist, learned in the Art of War. Didn’t you know that?
    :lol: 

    Why, it wouldn't surprise me if Trump one ups Sun Tzu with his own fine book of strategy,  How to Win at Go Fish, by Donald Trump

     
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    Do you factor in that the violence exists because our border is not secure?
    I disagree that the violence in those countries stems from the state of the American border, or that it would be fixed by a more “secure” border 
    Then you don't understand the problem.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    unsung said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Again, I assign the blame on the parents.  The US govt is responsible as far as allowing incentives to be handed out to the people illegally coming here.  


    So you have no moral or ethical opinion on the subject?  You can blame the parents all you want, but then children are hurt.  Is that okay with you because it's the parents' fault?
    Don't blame me, blame the parents.  I did not bring them to a place where there are consequences.

    My sympathy with the children is that they are being used as political pawns.  
    Do you factor in that most of these individuals and families are fleeing violence severe enough that facing these potential consequences seems like the better option?
    Do you factor in that the violence exists because our border is not secure?
    I disagree that the violence in those countries stems from the state of the American border, or that it would be fixed by a more “secure” border 
    Then you don't understand the problem.
    So.. control of the border will create peace in Central America?  You think the SW border is the only way drugs can get into the US?

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